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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 23:41:44 pm 
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I've seen a photo of a well know Sydney stampdealer with a two pound kangaroo and monogram and something about $100,000.

Is that the most expensive Australian stamp?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 23:50:20 pm 
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That stamp sold for WAY over $100,000. Try $A176,930.00

When you say "stamp" do you mean "single stamp" -- or "stamp item" ?

And do you mean "Australian" or "Australasian" ... it all matters on this one!

This sold for $A265,000 -- but it is not a single stamp.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 23:58:50 pm 
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$110,000 does not go far at the big end of town. Even this block got over $A110,000!

http://www.glenstephens.com/snjuly08.html

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 09:03:49 am 
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The next time an imperforate 3d Kookaburra miniature sheet comes onto the market (if ever, maximum of 3 in private hands) you can expect a much higher figure than $100,000 too.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 13:23:27 pm 
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...and then there is a certain tête-bêche pair...

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 13:36:17 pm 
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Well the certain Tete Beche pair got beaten out in $US price by this item 4 years back .. but is this a "stamp"?

http://www.glenstephens.com/snjune06.html

=========================

A 1912 unadopted essay for Australia's first Kangaroo and Map stamp issue was auctioned April 22, 2006 for $A174,750 or $US130,573.

In US dollars at least ($US130,573) this is a record price in US dollars for any Australian stamp item, essay or proof. My research indicates it may be a world record price for a single stamp essay from any country.

The auction result was obtained by Prestige Philately in Melbourne.

The essay in bright blue is on thick ungummed unwatermarked paper roughly rouletted percé en scie gauging 14½. This same design is known to exist in several different colours.

This essay is catalogued in the "Australian Commonwealth Specialists' Catalogue" as number #KE2 at $75,000, so the realisation was way over twice current catalogue price.

Previous record price for any Australian philatelic item was set in March 2003 when Spink auctioned a joined pair of 2d red King George V head stamps for the then equivalent of $A217,898 ... however that only came to $US130,028, hence the new "record" Greenback price!

The two 1930 King George V 2d red stamps were joined "upside-down" (tête-bêche), transforming two otherwise common stamps items into (then) the most costly item in Australian philately. This pair if separated would become two hinged mint common stamps which have a retail value of a couple of dollars each.

Another Kangaroo and Map design essay in the same April 22 Melbourne auction also realised more than double catalogue price. This was a vertical format 1d red Roo with two value tablets, and the island of Tasmania omitted. This is in dull red and imperforate on ungummed unwatermarked paper.

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This example with commissions sold for $A154,362 but an Australian buyer would need to add 10% GST tax to the hammer price.

Gary Watson, owner Prestige Philately was delighted with the result. He refused to divulge whether the essays would stay in Australia.

"At this point I am sworn to secrecy by the vendors and the purchaser(s) as to whether one buyer purchased these two, and the other two major Kangaroo and Map essays we sold at this auction."

I understand from a later press report that the buyer of all the four Kangaroo essays was Hugh Morgan. Mr Morgan is ex-CEO of massive Australian conglomerate Western Mining Company, and a keen collector and exhibitor of Australian stamps. With Morgan's high visibility in the business world, this purchase was a feature story in the "Australian Financial Review."


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 14:01:46 pm 
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[quote="admin"]
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I love that stamp (and not just because of the price :lol: ) I think the embellishments(?sp) around the roo have great eye appeal, much more interesting than the Roo and Map stamp


I wonder if any of the other colour essays exist in private hands ?

see them here at the Aust Post Philatelic Collection >> http://ehive.com/account/3514/object/8279

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 14:38:05 pm 
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Skippy yes Arthur Gray had one of the other colours -

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 14:48:35 pm 
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Maybe it is just me, but I am glad the simpler design was selected in the end. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 14:55:08 pm 
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I was aware of the Tete Beche pair but not the value of the essay. They seem like the silly American prices for jumbo stamps.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 15:05:14 pm 
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luke_coolhand wrote:
I was aware of the Tete Beche pair but not the value of the essay. They seem like the silly American prices for jumbo stamps.


Rarity and status is what counts for essays. There is really no genuine 'rarity' in jumbo stamps per-se, but try to find any of these essays. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 15:08:37 pm 
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PeterS wrote:
Maybe it is just me, but I am glad the simpler design was selected in the end. :)


Yes this is a pretty hard design to beat. :)

I had these from the Royal Collection, with plate flaw, and wish I had not sold them to be honest!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 16:27:07 pm 
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I wish i had bought them....to be honest. Gorgeous


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 01:49:36 am 
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admin wrote:
This was a vertical format 1d red Roo with two value tablets, and the island of Tasmania omitted. This is in dull red and imperforate on ungummed unwatermarked paper.

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Oops :oops: :? 8)

Along the lines of the 'All Country is Red' stamps (although a different kettle of political fish). Have there been any other instances of countries issuing/preparing a stamp and they left out territory?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 01:51:12 am 
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That must be a paste-up job, the 'Roo image glued onto the centre?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 02:02:28 am 
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aethelwulf wrote:

That must be a paste-up job, the 'Roo image glued onto the centre?


There is absolutely no fooling you is there. :lol: :lol:

Yes they might have at least used a gum that did not discolour!

This one looks better - that got the same price in Gray.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 03:50:54 am 
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They get nicer each one you post up. 8)

When I saw the 2 1/2d I found it a nice design, always interesting to see what "wasn't was", but still prefer the 'Roos over this.

The perfs on the 2 1/2d are terrible, but then one can't be picky here, not like a regular issue where a better copy will come along if you wait a bit...The perfs on the 5/- are an interesting type. I think overall though, imperf as this is best displays the image. I've always been fond of proofs--first off the press so they carry the sharpest image, and when imperf you (usually) get wide margins and no worries about the nagging distraction of poor centering.

Now that I have all the basic spaces filled in my collections of IndoChina I've been delving into the proofs et al...ahh the French were miles ahead of modern post offices in creating products for the collector market...imperfs, deluxe sheetlets, epreuve de luxe, artists proofs...

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:32:34 pm 
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aethelwulf wrote:
admin wrote:
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That must be a paste-up job, the 'Roo image glued onto the centre?


If I owned that I'd be tempted to lift the roo up to see what was underneath :lol:
There's something red under there !

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 13:14:31 pm 
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aethelwulf wrote:

The perfs on the 2 1/2d are terrible, but then one can't be picky here, not like a regular issue where a better copy will come along if you wait a bit...The perfs on the 5/- are an interesting type.


The perforation on these is a most unusual "saw-tooth roulette 14½" - used for nothing else that I am aware of, except these early proofs.

Skippy yes underneath you can see a ..... a RED Kangaroo!

The pasted in Green one (with "Rabbit Ears in the desert!) was cut out of one like this - itself a $90,000 auction piece -

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The same colour green they used for this new design trial (also unique) -

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 03:13:46 am 
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I read in one website that the 'Inverted swan' is the most expensive Australian stamp.

It also listed a few other Australian stamps as most rare and expensive which included the 'Queen Victoria' the 'Queensland Six Pence' and 'Classic Victoria', yet it did not include and images so it is hard to say what 'Queen victoria' stamp is that site talking about.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 21:23:18 pm 
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Surely the Sydney View 2d. Tete-Beche pair on cover would be the most expensive?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 21:25:18 pm 
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I read in one website that the 'Inverted swan' is the most expensive Australian stamp.




Well it was 1854 so is not "Australian "!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 21:45:18 pm 
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If by Australia you mean "Commonwealth of Australia" then you would be right. I tend to regard the States/Colonies as just as much Australian as the C. of A.

Some, in fact you, in this thread, have considered the possibility of Australasia also.

I take a similar view towards the South African Colonies as being just a part of South Africa. Similarly with the Canadian Provinces as being just a part of Canada.

Stanley Gibbons in their recent catalogues (last two decades) have taken the same view.

Taken to its logical conclusion, I really struggle to remember to look under Botswana for the issues of Stellaland.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 21:50:13 pm 
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In 2 weeks I'll be surprised if this does not cost someone $A300,000, so that will take the cake I think. :)

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 22:06:38 pm 
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Maybe, but it doesn't have the sex appeal, at least in my opinion, of the 2d. Tete-Beche and by that I mean the George V Head 2d.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 22:07:46 pm 
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Well a bird collector might disagree. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 22:11:57 pm 
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Well some bird collectors like the 'Inverted swan' as Ecc17 puts it.

Back to politics on the 'Today' show.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 00:06:27 am 
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admin wrote:
PeterS wrote:
Maybe it is just me, but I am glad the simpler design was selected in the end. :)


Yes this is a pretty hard design to beat. :)

I had these from the Royal Collection, with plate flaw, and wish I had not sold them to be honest!

Image


How much did you sell them for?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 00:28:43 am 
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They were only a few $1000 the pair - a great deal for whichever client bought them.

I love the Royal submitter on the Royal cert. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 06:58:03 am 
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capetriangle wrote:
Glen

If by Australia you mean "Commonwealth of Australia" then you would be right. I tend to regard the States/Colonies as just as much Australian as the C. of A.

Some, in fact you, in this thread, have considered the possibility of Australasia also.



Richard, I find myself agreeing with you again! This is getting to be a habit! :lol:

It is hard to find something more uniquely Australian than the Black Swan. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 07:03:34 am 
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GlenStephens wrote:
In 2 weeks I'll be surprised if this does not cost someone $A300,000, so that will take the cake I think. :)

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I'm taking a close look at this one in a few hours from now. It's on display along with others from the Stuart Hardy collection at Philas House 8)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 07:10:30 am 
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I hadn't noticed before, but doesn't the mini-sheet look like it has been torn (rather cut with scissors or any other sharp implement) on the left hand side? Almost like somebody used a ruler to tear it off! :shock:

I am sure it can't be, but it certainly looks it!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 16:34:59 pm 
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Lakatoi 4 wrote:
I'm taking a close look at this one in a few hours from now. It's on display along with others from the Stuart Hardy collection at Philas House 8)

Careful if you handle it and don't put a crease in it -- "you break it, you buy it". :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 16:41:40 pm 
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PeterS wrote:

I hadn't noticed before, but doesn't the mini-sheet look like it has been torn (rather cut with scissors or any other sharp implement) on the left hand side?

Almost like somebody used a ruler to tear it off! :shock:

I am sure it can't be, but it certainly looks it!


The Keeper Of The Royal Collection was the one who tore it up, as the original block was too long for the King's album page, so him using a steel ruler or edge of table would not surprise me at ALL!

Same guy also used the the LARGEST stamp hinges you could buy to anchor down all the 6 figure rarities.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 17:06:32 pm 
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Patronage appointments don't always fill jobs with the best people... :o

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 17:40:56 pm 
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Hinges were the norm in those days. I am sure the Keeper was very good. Given the King's keen interest in stamps, I am sure he would not have survived long if he wasn't any good.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 18:08:51 pm 
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If we're including Australian States then this has to be a contender.

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The key piece in the 'Manwood' collection. Sold for US$150,000 (plus 10% buyers premium) in November 1995.

The unique tete-beche 2d Sydney View cover addressed to the first lieutenant-governor of Victoria.

I wonder what it would bring these days ?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 18:44:34 pm 
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You would have to think that it could get to at least $400k to $450k, surely?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 18:59:34 pm 
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Not so sure.

The Mark Dankin collection catalogue arrived today. He had the best NSW collection globally, until his death, and the estimates are remarkably low.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 19:08:13 pm 
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I'm looking forward to seeing that catalogue Glen. I'd assume it's the 'Carrington' collection from Millennium ?

I'm not sure the La Trobe cover would reach $400K but I'd like to think it would outperform it's previous result.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 19:20:36 pm 
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Foxed, and torn, and ongoing oxidisation will mean it is far worse now than it was when last sold.

I wouldn't touch it for those reasons personally. Oxidisation of that blue type paper really gets manky - FAST.

200K-250K hammer would surprise me to be honest, if it were to appear.

The superb 3d Views block 4 on OHMS cover ex Dankin at 80K is a snip in comparison.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 19:31:37 pm 
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The problem with the tete-beche cover is that the stamps aren't tied and unless it has a certificate stating that the pair originated on the cover there are going to be problems when it is exhibited.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 21:15:22 pm 
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David,

The cover has a 1990 B.P.A. certificate. It was discovered by Fred Hagen, a well known Sydney dealer, in 1903.

It was part of the Clarke & Meinertzhagen collection, then to the Dale-Lichenstein Foundation until 1990.

It was illustrated in Rare Stamps by L N & M Williams and was exhibited among the 'Aristocats of Philately' at Anphilex in 1971 and Interphil 1976.

This information comes from the auction catalogue.

Cheers,

Robert

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No longer in Bathurst, but too good a double pun to request a name change.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 21:44:24 pm 
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Robert

You took the words out of my mouth - at least in the time spent looking for my copy of the Dale Forster sale (unsuccessful) and then resorting to the Siegel website for the information.

I remember examining the cover when we had it as part of the Dale-Lichtenstein collection in 1990. I did not doubt its authenticity then.

The cost of the item in constant 2012 U.S. Dollars would be $251,650. (Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis statistics)

Kindest regards, Richard


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 22:01:43 pm 
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I was not doubting the authenticity of the stamps, only that it definitely needs a new certificate that it originated on the cover.

It most probably woudn't matter to a purchaser who requires it for the block, being on a cover doesn't give it a much larger value if any at all.

It was that many Judges automatically criticise all covers that have untied stamps no matter what the pedigree might be.

David B.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 22:33:56 pm 
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David

Speaking hypothetically here (conceded as almost always a dangerous action), if I were a serious exhibitor of N.S.W. and owned the tete-beche cover with its modern 1990 B.P.A. certificate and was told by the judges to obtain a new certificate, that would be the end of my exhibiting. Flatly, I would simply refuse.

Now, that opinion of mine, will no doubt come as a surprise to some, as it is well known by many that issuing certificates was responsible for my income as an expert employee of the PF in New York for 15 years.

Dr. Norman Hubbard actually had a policy of automatically throwing away all 'unnecessary' certificates that came with collections he bought since he did not like the way they bulked up the album pages when mounted on same. (reverse sides)

Some would say that was an unusual activity for a former chairman of the PF, and even for an eccentric such as Norman.

Kindest regards, Richard


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 22:43:38 pm 
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Richard,

is 1990 considered modern,

re.
Quote:
told by the judges to obtain a new certificate


It's happened many times before and it will happen many times in the future.

The problem with this cover is that the value is on the pair not the cover and having it on a cover wouldn't give the exhibitor any extra points. I am not suggesting it be removed from the cover as that would be sacrilege but to be sure that there is no criticism then an exhibitor should get an up to date certificate stating that it is on the original cover. It may even come back as impossible to verify even with it's pedigree. What would the owner do then as that would still create a problem the next time it is exhibited.

David B.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 23:34:50 pm 
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David

Yes, 1990, is modern for a B.P.A. certificate.

The problem period for B.P.A. certificates is the 1950's and 1960's and especially certificates signed by Robson Lowe, Pemberton and Arthur Ginn. These three gentlemen were all members of the same firm (or associated with it) and condition was far less of a consideration in those days.

Please, nobody infer, from the above, that B.P.A. certificates of that date period are automatically bad, but rather they are deserving of a second look.

As I understand it, since the mid 1970's, it is B.P.A. policy to have only one signatory from any one firm on a certificate.

Expertise has also increased considerably since the 1950's and 1960's.

Similarly, at the PF in New York, certificates for U.S. Washington-Franklin Flat Plate coils, dating prior to the 1970's (maybe even the 1980's) need another look because expertise has increased significantly in the subsequent period.

With the N.S.W. 2d. tete beche, you are absolutely right, the value is for the pair. The 1990 certificate would imply or flat out say that the cover is original. That conclusion can be formed, irrespective of whether or not the stamp is tied, by examination of the backing (cover) paper.

The B.P.A. is not well known for coming out with phrases, such as "it is genuine as far as one can say," the source of much amusement and criticism of another expertizing body.

Kindest regards, Richard


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 23:54:32 pm 
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David

A perfect example of a geriatric certificate (1948) that is 100% correct and signed by two of the signatories mentioned in the post above.

Image



Kindest regards, Richard


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 04:31:30 am 
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Richard,

if the cover was accompanied by the 1990 BPA certificate that stated that the pair originated then it would be accepted without a query however if no certificate or no statement to that affect then I am sure that the judges would ask for it the next time it was exhibited.

David B.


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