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Staples,

Much obliged.

Regards

Not having much luck with this one just purchased off of Ebay for three dollars described as:

Australia 1918 KGV 1/2 Penny Orange Dot Before 2 At Left Punctured O.S.Wmk7 used

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Well, in BW (2007) it's no. 129m & catalogued at $1500.

I note that the printed area of the cliche is tilted to the right. I don't know whether this is normal for this cliche.

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mobbor

Amfhf1: re your 1/2d orange

The stamp is 9R59, BW 67 or 68(9)o. There is also a clear flaw in the left wattles, between the 3rd & 4th blooms.

I don't know what wmk 7 means. It's not Cof A, because it was retouched. So it's small multiple wmk p. 14 or 13 1/2 x 12 1/2. At $3 I assume it's the latter because perf. 14 perfed O.S. is uncommon.

The perfs at the bottom are a mess & it's grossly off-cente & the 'OS ' is very poorly punctured, but at least I think it's fairly safe to say the puncture isn't a forgery. Unfortunately, this has become important.

If it is perfed 13 1/2 x 12 1/3 the catalogue value is $20. (No premium for the OS). I'm also assuming it is used no gum- it's a bit hard finding a postmark.

If it actually is P.14; with the OS it's $240.

Of course condition would reduce the value a fair bit, but at $3, seems a perfectly good buy to me.

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mobbor

I thought I would butt in on the value topic.

Cat = $1500 - if you wanted the variety.
Cat = $900 if you wanted a muh version of the stamp, perfectly centered ect.

You need to think, who is going to buy it?

1R57 , being that low and to the right I dont think you will get a perfectly centered example.

I belive a variety collector from these boards would buy it at about 30% cat value
Ebay might get you 35-40% cat
A specialist variety auction might get 50-60% of cat.

Whats it worth ? How much did you pay? Thats its value.

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People will like you more if you stfu.

Thank you Kainnikanada, a tin shed flaw seems I keep getting them , well I don't mind I also like the stamp with the flaw.

Here is another one just arrived looks like a scratch on the inner leg/foot of emu. The watermark is small multi.



Thank you
Michael

P.S. Love this topic

Hi Barry-e
I usually don't discuss prices- just give the listed BW value- because I don't know much about them, esp. MUH.

But I do note BW prices "are for resonable centreing, with perforations clear of the design. Perfectly centred stamps......sell for a premium". I agree with you that gettimg well centred stamps from the bottom of the sheet is not going to be easy. So maybe you're being too harsh.

But it's a fairly rare & expensive stamp in that perf. so prices can vary considerably. It just depends on who's in the market at the time it's for sale.

On my monitor it has a remarkably fresh & clean appearance. Unfortunately perhaps, the back of the stamp is also very important with MUH stamps.

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mobbor

Micky: re your 2d red-brown Die 2

It's 2R22, BW 99(2)f. Cataloged used at $45. Very nice looking stamp.

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mobbor

Robert ,You always seem to say it easier.
That is pretty much what I was trying to convey, without writing a ten page summary.

No one here wants to give quotes - ever
Value is the difference between purchase price Vs selling price
Catalouge price is only equal to a particular desire for an exact stamp

It just depends on who's in the market at the time it's for sale.
- the price we have to pay sometimes when the buyer is not in the market.

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People will like you more if you stfu.

$45 , another lucky $1 buy. mobber is this flaw in the KGV, Brusden & White Catalogue? I have one now

Thank you I am pleased, and I am still looking for that elusive Eonin Shade for a $1

Michael

Thank you again PeterS and all here who got involved into the discussion re KGV shilling 4 Pence.

I t is the 1926 Issue, Perforation 14



Here again, front and back, as requested:





IMHO a superb copy of a fresh front and back stamp with full gum, slightly of-center as pictured in the CCCA 2007

So how much better can you really go, when the catalogue obviously shows the "best available picture" ?



All I really would like to know, in what price bracket this stamp would belong,and yes I am fully aware off "demand and market - price.

As the saying goes, just show me another one!

Again your comments are appreciated!

Cheers

Peter

Micky,

BW = Brusden White. See above. The pictures on page 4/230.

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mobbor

CHzug1291

You make a good point. Your scans indicate that the stamp meets all the criteria to be worth full catalogued price of $1500. If it was better centred it would be worth more.

But I still don't have any idea how much you would be likely to get for it. I suppose you would need to research auction prices etc.

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mobbor

mobbor

I firmly agree with your comment.....but on the day as we all know ,it is the "demand" and the price offered and the amount paid which discloses the "true value"

Thanks for your opinion!

I would like to draw attention to a new post that I have started enabling the exchange of KGV Plated Varieties.
This post is titled Australian KGV Exchange (Plated Varieties)

Just like an opinion please as to whether this perf. O.S. is genuine.





Sorry the scans are a bit small. This is 87(14)e. Doesn't look bright red brown, but has to be. There is considerable incentive for a forger here, which is why I'm asking.

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mobbor

Not the typical clean-cut perfs I see on all NWPI stuff unless it's on a thicker paper.

Also odd that in places the paper of the perf holes show through the cancel. That's strange considering it's such a heavy cancel. I'd have thought the canceller's ink would have bled into the paper not the reverse.

An enlargement of the top of the letters 'EE' of 'GEE', where the outer canceller ring is the heaviest, would be conclusive.

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Anyone else accumulating NWPI material for research?

Kainnikanada

The stamp was actually on Ebay. I asked the seller for a close-up scan & explained why? She said she hadn't considered it could be a forgery & has withdrawn it, to try & get a certificate.

I think this is sensible & I wish her luck, but I know at least some experts will not consider this sort of item.

BW87 is catalogued at $150 for the O.S. + $65 for the listed flaw so it's potentially quite valuable................& of course, a great attraction to forgers.

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mobbor

I don't know anywhere where you can get an OS perfin certified.

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Some US certifying bodies have been know to certify stamps they know nothing about.

Greg

I have selected 6 perf holes and drawn a 3 squares. The 6 selected are where the points of the square hit centre.
- check the relationship of the other perf holes, its very close ( one is way off ). I have no opinion but it may help you decide.
I dont, wont and will never collect OS for this very reason.

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People will like you more if you stfu.

Hi Barry-e

Thanks for going to that effort. Actually the squares make it look pretty good to me. My understanding is that they can be expected to vary a little because more than one sheet was perfed at a time- or does only apply to state perfins? That is also possibly why some holes were not punched out cleanly.

I hope to get Kainnikanada's view because I think with the postmark where it is, his point is the key. I can't come up with an opinion.

I cant disagree with your decision not to collect perf. O.S. I'm just intrigued because if genuine it's a fairly desirable & unusual combination. But it needs a certificate, & from what PeterS said, it's unlikely to happen. The sad thing is the forgers are not just ripping off individual customers, they're ruining collecting of a whole category of stamps & no doubt their own future income prospects as well.

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mobbor

Mobbor, the OS perforation was applied to a number of sheets at a time. As you say, the holes can be quite ragged towards the bottom of the pile of sheets perforated (this is harder to fabricate than clean cut holes).

Unfortunately, I now adopt the attitude that any perf OS is forged...unless there is a good provenance and I have had a chance to examine it myself. Buying perf OS (especially singles) from eBay is totally insane now.

I am building a database of Australian CTO cancellation dates that will help in authenticating OS perforated stamps that were included in Specimen sets. As a general rule, however, these did not include too many scarce perf OS varieties.

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Hi, can anyone please confirm if this is a die II? I'm not certain because there are other similar inking flaws on the stamp. Its on a postcard dated 3 August 1915.



Many thanks, Phoebe.

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The more I learn the less I know...

Phoebe, not a Die II. Just a fortuitous inking flaw.

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Thanks Peter, I thought it looked a little odd.

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The more I learn the less I know...

Hi guys.

This is 5aL6 , I thought it was state 3 but it not as severe as the one in wiki. 19 nov.



Can I ask for help on this one ?
Right frame top - has rusty / tin shed appearence
Left frame top - has some noticable notches

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People will like you more if you stfu.

Barry-e: re 5a L6

I think it's still State 3. The main difference is that in the wiki copy the corner is also gone. State 3 in BW is in between, i.e. the corner is beginning to go.

With these sorts of flaws the 'states' are a bit artificial. The cliche had a problem from the start. It was retouched with added metal & probably 'bumping up' above. It wore away progressively. It was done again with the same result...........
so if you find 20 copies, they may all be slightly different.

The Nov. date is helpful. The checklist says, "copies with dates after Jan. 1920 show more added metal...", so the copy in the wiki probably came a little after yours & just before the 2nd repair attempt.

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mobbor

Barry-e: re 2d orange

1R35. The only flaws mentioned for this are the 4 rather strange notches in the upper right frame.

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mobbor

I know this is a novice type question but I haven't really gotten into 2d KGV's yet, though I have Just bought the Die 1 & Die 3 checklists, but is there a quickfire way to determine which of the 3 dies a 2d is ? Like the 1½d one it was the short middle leg of the final e in pence that made it simple but what is the instant difference in the 2d's ?

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Donald.
Aus KGV Head Addict !

Die 1
Orange
Red
Red/Brown
Thin 2
Thickening of the outside of the left frame above Kangaroo's tail


Die 2
Red
Red/Brown
Thin 2
Uniformed thickness of left frame top to bottom
The downward strokes on the 2 E's of pence have a small extension below them.


Die 3
Red
Thick 2

Some small recurrent flaws that are on the die 3 stamps

Small horizontal line right of the crown between the top frame and the first shading line (not always there)

Small coloured dot between the 2nd and 3rd shading lines (counting up) left of the central value tablet (not always there)

Break at the right end of the 3rd line (counting up) left of the central value tablet (not always there)


Your main problem will be the difference between die 1+2
The thick 2 on the die 3 stands out like a sore thumb

That the way I do it

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I AM ALWAYS IN THE MIDDLE
Post your KGV faults on the stampboard wiki.

thanks Robbo

_________________
People will like you more if you stfu.

Another way to differentiate between Dies 1 & 2 is by the watermark -

Die 1 - Orange Large Single;
Red Large Single;
Red/Brown Large Single, Small Multiple 14.25.

Die 2 - Red Small Multiple 13.5;
Red/Brown Small Multiple 13.5.

I can't seem to find this stamp in my reference so wonder if one of the experts could identify it for me, top right hand corner has the markings which interest me.

This has appeared in the wrong place. Can one of the Monitors please move it to the KGV topic.

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KGV tragic

Monitors?

Norm

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Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

Senior moment At least I got the M right

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KGV tragic

Sandgroper: re your 1d red.

Can you do a larger scan? The flaws in the top right are definitely not constant. Probably 'tin sheds'. With a larger scan we may be able to plate it anyway.

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mobbor

I have here a 1½ Pence, I think SWM and I am a bit cofused about the F of Halfpence ( in the value tablet!
It looks to me like a slight retouch?





Can anyone here please shed some light to this stamp please?

Cheers

Peter

Peter at work at the moment but it looks like a white line like the rest of the stamp has with all the dashes and spots
but will look tonight

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I AM ALWAYS IN THE MIDDLE
Post your KGV faults on the stampboard wiki.

Thanks Mobbor unfortunately my scanner an Epsom 1670 has passed its use by date as Epsom can't provide a windows 7 64 bit driver and at present I am using a generic driver which is crap. Will buy a new scanner(any recommendations but Epsom).

ken

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KGV tragic

Thank you GUTTERS & Clemo that should save a lot more head scratching with these 2d's, hopefully I'll find some I can add to the wiki, I've been neglecting it a lot lately.

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Donald.
Aus KGV Head Addict !

Hi All,

Hoping for some help plating these two:


-Top of Cross
-SW corner


-Notch in NW corner.

Thanks

Staples

The only 2d KGV stamps where you need to use the die characteristics to sort the stamps is the red small multiple perf 13.5 x 12.5, which can be die 2 or 3 (which are easy to sort). All the others can be sorted as outlined above, and small multiple watermark stamps are always die 3.

Greg

Staples: re your 1d reds

1. 7/40
2. 6/40

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mobbor

CHzug1291: your 1 1/2d

I agree with GUTTERS. The stamp could just about be described as semi-surfaced, with so many spots.

One point: it is Die 1. Apart from the watermark, the lettering 'THREE HALFPENCE' is very different.

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mobbor

Many thanks GUTTERS and mobbor

I wish you a glorious weekend!

Peter

Thanks Mobbor

Ken there is a lot of discussion on this on other threads I personally use a cheap three in one from office works paid less than $50 for it.

_________________
I AM ALWAYS IN THE MIDDLE
Post your KGV faults on the stampboard wiki.

Hi, can anyone please confirm that these are tin-shed flaws?



Many thanks, Phoebe.

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The more I learn the less I know...

Phoebes:

There seems to be a pattern to the disturbances on the right side. Can you post a scan of the back of the stamp?

Rod

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Anyone else accumulating NWPI material for research?