From what Countries do you think stamps can be investments?

Harth · **Posted:** Fri Mar 02, 2012 02:06:40 am

Hello.

If you want to collect stamp as hobby plus long investments, what Countries do you think you buy in stamps?

ivqii · **Posted:** Fri Mar 02, 2012 02:13:06 am

The country who's stamps you know most about

el-mue · **Posted:** Fri Mar 02, 2012 09:11:27 am

I wouldn't buy stamps. I think it's better to investigate in terrain, stocks and metalls.

In Germany the philatelistic market is shrinking enormously. The young generation prefers to spend its time in computers and the www. So there are to much offers for less buyers.

Best rgds.

El Mue

mrboggler · **Posted:** Fri Mar 02, 2012 09:51:20 am

There is no quick answer.
But if you are prepared to over the next 10- 15 years

Visit 2-3 dealers on a regular basis,

Become friendly with them,

Buy stamps from them.

Visit as many Auctions as you can,

Subscribe to as many Auction Catalogues as you can,

Read every Philatelic Magazine you can.

Join 2-3 Stamp Clubs.

Then and only then you may have enough knowledge to start up a small
investment portfolio.in your chosen area of expertise.

Harth · **Posted:** Sun Mar 04, 2012 01:43:30 am

ivqii wrote:

The country who's stamps you know most about

Thanks for your advice. Some people think China stamp can be good investement in long run as China economey getting better. what do you think guys.??????

Harth · **Posted:** Sun Mar 04, 2012 01:47:36 am

el-mue wrote:

I wouldn't buy stamps. I think it's better to investigate in terrain, stocks and metalls.

In Germany the philatelistic market is shrinking enormously. The young generation prefers to spend its time in computers and the www. So there are to much offers for less buyers.

Best rgds.

El Mue

Thanks for your advice. Some people think the new Tech, will help improve the hubby as www. , i Phone , B.B. and auction online will make easy for new G. to get in and understand the hobby and get in.

Also some people think China stamp can be good investement in long run as China economey getting better. what do you think guys.??????

AMark · **Posted:** Sun Mar 04, 2012 04:44:07 am

Hello Harth.

Take a look at this thread.

Investment - What Stamps Should I Invest In?

Cheers!

agondocz · **Posted:** Thu Mar 08, 2012 08:45:10 am

Hello Harth,

Perhaps you could join the the Emirates Philatelic Association.

Some of the local members might be able to help you with what stamps and postal history of the United Arab Emirates and of the emirates when they had independent postal services are worth collecting.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

doug2222usa · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 01:29:41 am

Since economic power seems to be migrating toward Asia, I would look at Asia first; follow the money.

Strictly my opinions, in no certain order:

YES: Singapore, Korea, Vietnam, Bhutan.

MAYBE: PRC, Thailand, Indonesia, Iraq, Malaysia.

NO: Japan, Taiwan, Philippines, India, Iran, Sri Lanka,
Afghanistan, Mongolia, Burma/Myanmar, Bangladesh.

==========
All these countries are fine to collect, study, and research;
I'm talking investing.

PennyBlack1840 · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 02:16:03 am

Anybody wanting a 'short term' investment could do worse than pile into Great Britain stamps,in particular the current 2nd and 1st class NVI's.

The reason is that the annual tariff increase is due shortly and it is quite widely rumoured that the increases will be significant. 2nd class currently 36p and rumoured to rise to 50 - 55p.

That is a VERY LARGE PERCENTAGE INCREASE.. Interest rates here are abysmal for savers and a few quid put into mint NVI's that will rise signfiicantly in value is surely a very low risk?

Last year the increase in 2nd class was in excess of 10% when interest rates are perhaps 2% at best, its a no brainer...... This opportunity is current and for approximately another 3 weeks,then it's gone.

Not the answer the poser of the question probably expected but one that will produce a return, and incidentally I work opposite Stanley Gibbons and am sick and tired of handling questions from the muppets buying their 'investment portfolios'.

Jack · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 02:39:37 am

Try early Sharjah covers. Or clean and clear modern UAE covers. Note, covers, not stamps. UAE postal history has gone up in price enormously over the last decade. It still has upside potential (growing economy, growing population). Get UAE covers with good circular date stamps from both official PO and the licensed Postal Agencies and that should be an excellent start to a great collection. I've always contemplated an exhibit showing all the Postal Agencies numbers of the UAE or one of the Emirates for example. But I'm here, and not in Sharjah.

I also support Andrew's comment about joining the Emirates Philatelic Association as it has a lot of very helpful and knowledgeable people in it.

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 02:41:37 am

I would take a different opinion.

Taiwan has really taken off at auction the past couple years; it seems interest/attention of mainland Chinese collectors is extending to encompass the island.

Postal history from "classic" Mongolia (ie the 'beginning'--Russian PO--to 1920s) is always strong at auction, and there has been a noticeable increase in prices since I started collecting just a few years ago. There's not a huge amount of material out there, so supply is tight. Of course the country followed the USSR thematic stamp mill policy so 1950s onwards material is mostly fluff.

Bhutan...certainly interest in some of the early issues, the record stamps being the most famous. How many serious collectors of Bhutan might be out there though? If Indian collectors turn attention to the country, that would spur interest.

Thailand has always been popular with collectors for one reason or another. The country has moved up a lot in developing country terms and is becoming more middle class. I'd say there's strength there to support prices.

PRC material is like stocks, subject to fluctuation, bubbles, 'fad buying'. How many buyers are serious collectors, and how many are speculators...one has to wonder...I would buy to flip, not buy to hold long-term.

doug2222usa · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 02:46:29 am

If our member Harth lived in the U.K., I would agree with your pick of NVI issues. But trying to extract that premium by mail, on both the buying and selling aspects, I doubt that the numbers work.

He would have both risk and high postage costs on both ends of the deal, as well as significant competition from folks with the same strategy.

===============
for Aethelwulf, I think Thailand and Taiwan are currently fully-priced, and ripe for profit-taking.

doug2222usa · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 02:50:10 am

I think Jack is right about the various Emirates and their postal history, but the problem is finding sufficient quantities to invest in. And I would not necessarily exclude stamps.

I suppose theoretically the Emirates are "Asia," but I think of them as the "Middle East," so they did not appear in my "Asia" opinions.

norvic · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 02:52:33 am

My answer is the same as always, but I make no apologies for that.

This is a hobby, like golf, like archery, like numismatics. You do it to enjoy it, you don't do it to make a profit.

doug2222usa · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 03:33:09 am

One of my correspondents, formerly a private contractor in Iraq, thinks I am 100% wrong about indicating Iraq as a "maybe," and he's already emailed (me) HIS opinion.

He says that after 10 years of war, the sheer quantity of stolen stamp stocks, postal paraphernalia, and cancellers and rubber stamps, etc., is staggering, and that any purported postal history coming out of Iraq for the next 20 years -- is HIGHLY suspect.

He suggests that probably just about anything philatelic can be made-to-order, and is already being funneled into the marketplace, although demand remains spotty.

So I am changing my tune on Iraq, from "Maybe" to "No," and possibly to "H*** No!" :wink:

Jack · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 03:38:41 am

'I think Jack is right about the various Emirates and their postal history, but the problem is finding sufficient quantities to invest in. And I would not necessarily exclude stamps.'

Thanks. He's in Sharjah so in an ideal position to get a range of modern material. For example. Or a quick trip to the Musandam peninsula of Oman whose items are also in very short supply... I would exclude stamps because anyone can get modern items.

AFStamps · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 05:12:12 am

Some dealers are making good money dealing with Russian (exUSSR) stamps.......

mrboggler · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 14:00:32 pm

The original Poster seems to be a beginner from what he says in his first post,

There have been many good suggestions as to what he should do,but not a lot of imput from him,except to keep suggesting that China is said to be good ,

what do we think,

I would like to know who these "People" are who say that China will be good investment,
If he has advice already that China is good, then he should go with it,

It seems that if we do not approve of what he has suggested,"China will be good" it does not suit his portfolio so he,s OFF.

I guess I am just feeling extra Grumpy this afternoon,but we do tend to get a lot of people who join up with these sort of questions,that a lot of us spend time answering,only to be almost ignored,

Comments

fromdownunder · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 14:34:28 pm

I would not touch China as an "investment" with a 10 foot pole. It's far too volatile, and needs to calm down a bit.

I remember when the boom in Australian decimals "calmed down" in the early '80's and many part time dealers went bankrupt, and many people are still sitting on stamps that, inflation included, are probably worth 5% of what they paid for them.

My advice, as always on investing in stamps is "none of the above"

Norm

Tassie_Stamps · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 14:41:37 pm

People who were buying China stamps 10 and 20 years ago certainly made a good "Investment" but who knows what such stamps will be worth in 10 or 20 years time?

Investing in stamps could be dangerous if you don't know what you are doing, and the market can change FAST.

Become very knowledgable and know what you want to achieve before you begin the investment.

COLIN · **Posted:** Fri Mar 09, 2012 18:48:45 pm

I am with Norvic and mrboggler here.

I collect for fun and fun only - However along the way I have also made a bob or two from my surplus purchases.

The old 'Knowledge is power' bit comes in here as time goes on and you can learn a bit you can get a bargain now and then.

Harth · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 04:24:02 am

Jack wrote:

'I think Jack is right about the various Emirates and their postal history, but the problem is finding sufficient quantities to invest in. And I would not necessarily exclude stamps.'

Thanks. He's in Sharjah so in an ideal position to get a range of modern material. For example. Or a quick trip to the Musandam peninsula of Oman whose items are also in very short supply... I would exclude stamps because anyone can get modern items.

Thanks for your advice . I will do my best to travel to Oman and send some mail from there to my address in UAE so i can have some Postal with Oman PostMark.
Regards
Harth

Harth · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 04:54:28 am

mrboggler wrote:

The original Poster seems to be a beginner from what he says in his first post,
Yes I am and that why asked for an advice
There have been many good suggestions as to what he should do,but not a lot of imput from him,except to keep suggesting that China is said to be good ,

what do we think,

I am trying to find out more from the others members so every one can post what he is thinking is good invetments.

I would like to know who these "People" are who say that China will be good investment,
when you visit stamp show you find some dealers talking about china stamps as the future stamps as China becoming super power nation and people are getting Rich.
If he has advice already that China is good, then he should go with it,
If i want to go for it i have to ask for an advice befor i do so and that why what i did on my post.
It seems that if we do not approve of what he has suggested,"China will be good" it does not suit his portfolio so he,s OFF.
OnlineThanks.
NOt at all but i am busy doing my job and travel from City to anther . plus waiting for members Post I guess I am just feeling extra Grumpy this afternoon,but we do tend to get a lot of people who join up with these sort of questions,that a lot of us spend time answering,only to be almost ignored,

Thanks for your post any way.

and stamps hoby teach us to take care of each others and not ignored :oops:

Comments

Harth · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 05:20:15 am

Jack wrote:

Try early Sharjah covers. Or clean and clear modern UAE covers. Note, covers, not stamps. UAE postal history has gone up in price enormously over the last decade. It still has upside potential (growing economy, growing population). Get UAE covers with good circular date stamps from both official PO and the licensed Postal Agencies and that should be an excellent start to a great collection. I've always contemplated an exhibit showing all the Postal Agencies numbers of the UAE or one of the Emirates for example. But I'm here, and not in Sharjah.

Thanks Jack for your advice i will do that.
My best Regards
Harth
I also support Andrew's comment about joining the Emirates Philatelic Association as it has a lot of very helpful and knowledgeable people in it.

yuten · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 05:57:09 am

I collect stamps from 1986, now quarter of a century. I don't do stupid stuff like correlation or regression analysis, if I have those time, I would rather enjoy my hobby.

25 years, I saw rise and down of the PRC stamps, German stamps, British stamps. Some countries' price does not go wild, they just walk steadily towards top right corner. It seems good, isn't it? But, at this stage, we have to think about the Liquidation. If you can not sell it quickly, the price is just a day dream.

Combine the Price and the Liquidation, the USSR might be the only choice. This country's stamps price never drop since 1991, and check out the demand on ebay, you will know how quick it can convert into money.

Bahn · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 07:16:26 am

Hey Harth, this response is specific to you.

In my almost 40 years of collecting, I have heard this question a lot.. a lot. The question you asked, is not really being answered, because you asked a "relative" question, which means you're gonna get a different answer from most every person as everyone has a different opinion. You might want to make your question a bit more concise. Basically, you asked which countries do you think stamp collecting will go up? When you say "good, long-term investments," you immediately bring up 3 separate subjective terms.. what do you mean by "good?"... by "long-term?"... by "investments?"

As with any investing, this is a two part thingy. Investing is research and opportunity. Investing is usually 90% perspiration and 10% luck. Luck is buying a piece of land in the mountains to live quietly, and being unlucky is finding gold on it.. though some would call that "a good investment."

Let me ask you, young man... what do you mean by "good?" is 10% over 20 years good? 50%? 100%? 300%? to Glen here, good is getting a collection that he can break down and sell at 200% in a couple of weeks. Good to me would mean to break even... lol... after 40 years and massive inflation. So, what do you mean by "good?"

Now, "long term." a week? a month? 2 years? 10 years? or 40 years in my case? If 40 years is the case, I suggest you're gonna see rise and fall of empires, which will all dramatically effect the value of the stamps of those countries. if you want to say "good, long-term" money.. would tripling your money in 2-3 weeks work for you? if that is all you want, I can show you how to do that without leaving your computer, chair & desk. Check out the word "arbitrage." Have you wondered yet why all the Chinese are buying Chinese stamps on eBay? Why Indians are buying Indian stamps on eBay???

Now the key word.. "investment." That generally means to "buy low, sell high." After you do your homework/research, you have to go out and find the opportunities. Where do you seek your opportunities? What have you researched? Hopefully this site isn't your reference material or only source of study. I mean it's good and fun, and that's why I am here, but you need to be a member of the APS (or the like) and dig through their philatelic library. If you're an American, you're in luck.. more opportunities here than any other place on the planet, in general. So, again, I ask, where do you buy? from approval companies? brick and mortar stores? shows? auctions - live or online? clubs?

when you answer those questions, we can go into what makes a country worth researching. Every country will have stamps that will go up in value, and some stamps that will go down in value.

finally, harth, I can pretty much assure you that if you live in the USA, pretty much all of your stamps will go up in price, but maybe not value. That is called inflation, and you're looking for a hedge against it.

If you're looking to continue the discussion... I will be here.
brian (my real name).

here's a test of research.. what do you think about this 'investment'???

I could show you about 100 of these from the same collection, but these two are good enough.

mrboggler · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 08:48:22 am

Brian you make MANY very good points,and should be read by anyone who wishes to "Invest" in stamps.

As I said to Harth already,there IS NO SIMPLE answer to his question,
Every Country has some good stamps.every Country has its Bad stamps.
Some countries never really have a Big Following, others do,
some areas take off and do well,then drop away,

Example.
A few years ago,when Princess Diana,was tragically killed in that car crash.Stamps with her image took off world wide,and continued to do well for about 12-15 months,
Today those same stamps can hardly be given away,

Stamp collecting is very much like ladies Fashion,what,s IN today is OUT tomorrow,
and unless one puts in the time and effort to gain knowledge,
there is NO WAY you should be investing in stamps,just by asking a few questions on a StampBoard.

Its a Bit like asking your local Butcher whats good on the share market today,he says Pork Bellies,so you rush out and buy some shares.only to find they were good yesterday,but crashed in the afternoon.

You REALLY need to do the MILES before investing money into stamps,otherwise you WILL FAIL.

Harth please read what Brian has written, it makes great sense.

Harth · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 21:04:44 pm

BAHnOsceolaAR wrote:

Hey Harth, this response is specific to you.

In my almost 40 years of collecting, I have heard this question a lot.. a lot. The question you asked, is not really being answered, because you asked a "relative" question, which means you're gonna get a different answer from most every person as everyone has a different opinion. You might want to make your question a bit more concise. Basically, you asked which countries do you think stamp collecting will go up? When you say "good, long-term investments," you immediately bring up 3 separate subjective terms.. what do you mean by "good?"... by "long-term?"... by "investments?"
Thanks Brian for your great post which add more value to our discussion. so we can have more great feed back.As with any investing, this is a two part thingy. Investing is research and opportunity. Investing is usually 90% perspiration and 10% luck. Luck is buying a piece of land in the mountains to live quietly, and being unlucky is finding gold on it.. though some would call that "a good investment."
I think if you make 5% -10% of your buying stamp collection each year that is ( good investment )

Let me ask you, young man... what do you mean by "good?" is 10% over 20 years good? 50%? 100%? 300%? to Glen here, good is getting a collection that he can break down and sell at 200% in a couple of weeks. Good to me would mean to break even... lol... after 40 years and massive inflation. So, what do you mean by "good?"

Now, "long term." a week? a month? 2 years? 10 years? or 40 years in my case?
I will say 5 Years is long term investment. not 40Years.
If 40 years is the case, I suggest you're gonna see rise and fall of empires, which will all dramatically effect the value of the stamps of those countries. if you want to say "good, long-term" money.. would tripling your money in 2-3 weeks work for you? if that is all you want, I can show you how to do that without leaving your computer, chair & desk.
Yes it will be nice to tell us how can we do that??? Check out the word "arbitrage."
No clue about #arbitrage # please let me know :oops:

Have you wondered yet why all the Chinese are buying Chinese stamps on eBay? Why Indians are buying Indian stamps on eBay???
Not realy please let us know ???
Now the key word.. "investment." That generally means to "buy low, sell high." After you do your homework/research, you have to go out and find the opportunities. Where do you seek your opportunities? What have you researched? Hopefully this site isn't your reference material or only source of study. I mean it's good and fun, and that's why I am here, but you need to be a member of the APS (or the like) and dig through their philatelic library. If you're an American, you're in luck.. more opportunities here than any other place on the planet, in general. So, again, I ask, where do you buy? from approval companies? brick and mortar stores? shows? auctions - live or online? clubs?
What about buying stamps from the Post Office with face value and keep it as hoby and sell some of it when there is chance to make profit out of it .
I know some dealers buying stamps with face value from the P.O. with face Value and sell them at Ebay and at shows with an extra 20% up to 100% when it become out of stock at the Post Office.
But of you buy from auctions house or buying stamps as rare ones you have to take the risk of you want to buy it as an investment . but if you rich enough and you buy it as collectors then risk is out of your plan.
when you answer those questions, we can go into what makes a country worth researching. Every country will have stamps that will go up in value, and some stamps that will go down in value.

finally, harth, I can pretty much assure you that if you live in the USA, pretty much all of your stamps will go up in price, but maybe not value. That is called inflation, and you're looking for a hedge against it.

If you're looking to continue the discussion... I will be here.
brian (my real name).

here's a test of research.. what do you think about this 'investment'???

I could show you about 100 of these from the same collection, but these two are good enough.

That is not in my Area Brian so i can not answer it.
may some of our members will do that???

Have a nice day and please keep posting some good idea to keep our hoby safe investment and enjoyabel hoby.

Harth · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 21:13:57 pm

mrboggler wrote:

Brian you make MANY very good points,and should be read by anyone who wishes to "Invest" in stamps.

As I said to Harth already,there IS NO SIMPLE answer to his question,
Every Country has some good stamps.every Country has its Bad stamps.
Some countries never really have a Big Following, others do,
some areas take off and do well,then drop away,

Example.
A few years ago,when Princess Diana,was tragically killed in that car crash.Stamps with her image took off world wide,and continued to do well for about 12-15 months,
Today those same stamps can hardly be given away,

Stamp collecting is very much like ladies Fashion,what,s IN today is OUT tomorrow,
and unless one puts in the time and effort to gain knowledge,
there is NO WAY you should be investing in stamps,just by asking a few questions on a StampBoard.

Its a Bit like asking your local Butcher whats good on the share market today,he says Pork Bellies,so you rush out and buy some shares.only to find they were good yesterday,but crashed in the afternoon.

You REALLY need to do the MILES before investing money into stamps,otherwise you WILL FAIL.

Harth please read what Brian has written, it makes great sense.

Thanks for your nice post i agreed with what you are saying . you make it very clear.

fromdownunder · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 21:28:45 pm

Harth wrote:

Have a nice day and please keep posting some good idea to keep our hoby safe investment and enjoyabel hoby.

Have you even bothered reading most of the replies? It's a hobby (not a hoby) and NOT an investment. If your hobby was playing golf, how much return would you expect on selling your golf clubs, used balls and Golf Shoes?

One of my other "hobbies" is movies, as many other members have found out much to their pain. I go to Theatres, buy Videos and DVDs, have Foxtel which costs me over $100 per month for, among other things, sixteen dedicated 24/7 Movie Channels.

My return on my Movie hobby will be absolutely nothing. At least with stamps, my estate will get a return. Nothing remotely close to what I have spent, because stamp collecting is just a hobby, and not an investment.

Buy what you like, or buy lottery tickets. It makes not a lot of difference. If you want to run with China, go for it, bur don't blame anybody here 20 years from now when you cannot sell them to anybody at any price.

You also need to establish WHAT China you want to buy. A lot of pre war stuff is around in the millions and will always be worthless. 1950's reprints are still as cheap as chips and always will be. Post "All China is Red" is probably no better, and very modern is utterly useless. There is a limited window and a limited era of Chinese stamps that are "hot" today. What about tomorrow, or ten years from now?

Do you know anything other than your mantra that "China is good"?, because much of it is not. And how can YOU tell forgeries from the real stuff? Answer: You can't, because you are a beginner and therefore should not be putting money into anything that you know nothing about.

Norm

mrboggler · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 22:36:55 pm

Harth the best advice I can now give you is this,

Spend your Money on E,Bay.there you will find many bargains,many people who will be more than happy to part you from your money,with no questions asked,

Have a jolly time.and make lots of money,THIS was the secret we have been holding back from you all this time,
Go for it. :shock:

fromdownunder · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 23:12:00 pm

mrboggler wrote:

Harth the best advice I can now give you is this,

Spend your Money on E,Bay.there you will find many bargains,many people who will be more than happy to part you from your money,with no questions asked,

Have a jolly time.and make lots of money,THIS was the secret we have been holding back from you all this time,
Go for it. :shock:

And here is a great start, It actually belongs on the eBay Dreamers thread, but just for you, Harth I will post it here, so you can start your magnificent investment portfolio. And it's from CHINA!

It's only USD 9,000, from seller robertw672011 ( Feedback Score Of 6 )

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CHINA-RARE-S ... 46019f69aa

Description:

Quote:

THIS IS A RARE CHINA STAMP SYS 800 OVER30 MNH BEEN IN A PLASTIC SLEEVE SINCE I GOT IT 30 YEARS AGO WITH OVER PRINT OF 800 OVER 30 THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST STAMPS IN MY COLLECTION

Go for it Harth, and come back in 20 years and tell us how much money you made.

ETA Here is the same stamp from my collection. It's worth 10 cents, but just for you. you can have it for $1,000 and it will save you $8,000 over what it would cost you on eBay.

Norm

Bahn · **Posted:** Mon Mar 12, 2012 03:58:24 am

Harth wrote:

That is not in my Area Brian so i can not answer it. may some of our members will do that???

LOL.. so you want others to do your research for you? Ok, my friend. best of luck. cheers

Harth · **Posted:** Mon Mar 12, 2012 04:09:23 am

BAHnOsceolaAR wrote:

Harth wrote:

That is not in my Area Brian so i can not answer it. may some of our members will do that???

LOL.. so you want others to do your research for you? Ok, my friend. best of luck. cheers

Not really, i am going for the stamp not Postal history.
If some of our members want to comments to your test that fine.

Regards

Harth · **Posted:** Mon Mar 12, 2012 04:17:04 am

fromdownunder wrote:

Harth wrote:

Have a nice day and please keep posting some good idea to keep our hoby safe investment and enjoyabel hoby.

Have you even bothered reading most of the replies? It's a hobby (not a hoby) and NOT an investment. If your hobby was playing golf, how much return would you expect on selling your golf clubs, used balls and Golf Shoes?

One of my other "hobbies" is movies, as many other members have found out much to their pain. I go to Theatres, buy Videos and DVDs, have Foxtel which costs me over $100 per month for, among other things, sixteen dedicated 24/7 Movie Channels.

My return on my Movie hobby will be absolutely nothing. At least with stamps, my estate will get a return. Nothing remotely close to what I have spent, because stamp collecting is just a hobby, and not an investment.

Buy what you like, or buy lottery tickets. It makes not a lot of difference. If you want to run with China, go for it, bur don't blame anybody here 20 years from now when you cannot sell them to anybody at any price.

You also need to establish WHAT China you want to buy. A lot of pre war stuff is around in the millions and will always be worthless. 1950's reprints are still as cheap as chips and always will be. Post "All China is Red" is probably no better, and very modern is utterly useless. There is a limited window and a limited era of Chinese stamps that are "hot" today. What about tomorrow, or ten years from now?

Do you know anything other than your mantra that "China is good"?, because much of it is not. And how can YOU tell forgeries from the real stuff? Answer: You can't, because you are a beginner and therefore should not be putting money into anything that you know nothing about.

Norm

Hello Norm again.
I am posting here to find some advice from some of our members who has some advices to share it with others about stamp as ( hobby ) which make it safe andenjoyable , and Tahnks for sharing us your comments .
Regards

Sisophon · **Posted:** Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:58:33 am

fromdownunder wrote:

One of my other "hobbies" is movies, as many other members have found out much to their pain. I go to Theatres, buy Videos and DVDs, have Foxtel which costs me over $100 per month for, among other things, sixteen dedicated 24/7 Movie Channels.

Watching movies is an interest, collecting movie films and prints and magazines is a hobby. We are talking about hobbies, aren't we?

Buying HBO channels won't give returns, but buying old movie prints may. :lol:

fromdownunder wrote:

You also need to establish WHAT China you want to buy. A lot of pre war stuff is around in the millions and will always be worthless. 1950's reprints are still as cheap as chips and always will be. Post "All China is Red" is probably no better, and very modern is utterly useless. There is a limited window and a limited era of Chinese stamps that are "hot" today. What about tomorrow, or ten years from now?

Of course we need to establish what China to buy, investment always includes preparation and research, yet "A lot of pre war stuff is around in the millions and will always be worthless" is a bit misleading. I guess you are talking about the Nationalist era (pre-1949). There are only around 30 Nationalist commemorative sets, half of them costs between 15 - 1500 USD.

There are around 60 Nationalist definitive sets. Won't you be kind and generous enough to buy me any of the pre-1930 as a gift: the 1st set 4v 13700USD, 2nd set 8v 27300USD, 3rd 15v 1100USD, 4th 2v 50USD, 5th 15v 1400USD, 6th 19v 1850USD, 7th 22v 5100USD, 8th 24v 1100USD...... please ~~~

1940s definitive sets usually costs more than 10USD, errors and oddities are what people really go for.

Some definitives are a dime a dozen simply because they are the most common. There are other definitive sets which are hard to catch, they are pricey, and they are the majority of Nationalist issues.

The market goes up and down for sure, it involves gain and loss. How about you suggest a profit guaranteed investment? We don't know what happens tomorrow, or ten years from now, so, should we watch movies, should people have babies, or should we live ?

fromdownunder · **Posted:** Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:07:07 pm

Sisiphon wrote:

Of course we need to establish what China to buy, investment always includes preparation and research, yet "A lot of pre war stuff is around in the millions and will always be worthless" is a bit misleading. I guess you are talking about the Nationalist era (pre-1949). There are only around 30 Nationalist commemorative sets, half of them costs between 15 - 1500 USD.

Well, I always thought that the war ended in 1945, so yes, I was definately referring to pe 1949. It came with the statement I made.

And I did give a specific example and link to a stamp worth next to nothing being listed on eBay for $9,000 as an example as to how people get carried away when they see the word "China"

Now, I just did a rough check of my China "pre war" and I have over three hundred different, none of which would be worth more than One Dollar, so yes I will stick by my statement.

ETA, I also did a rough count from Gibbons simplified and found around 600 pre 1949 China catalogued under GBP 1. How is this not a lot of China?

Sisophon wrote:

The market goes up and down for sure, it involves gain and loss. How about you suggest a profit guaranteed investment?

I already have on this thread. "None of the above"

Quote:

We don't know what happens tomorrow, or ten years from now, so, should we watch movies, should people have babies, or should we live ?

I would say "all of the above". Well, I don't want any more babies, but others can take care of that.

Norm

Sisophon · **Posted:** Mon Mar 12, 2012 17:30:56 pm

fromdownunder wrote:

And I did give a specific example and link to a stamp worth next to nothing being listed on eBay for $9,000 as an example as to how people get carried away when they see the word "China"

If someone buys whatever stamp-look-alike with the word "China" on it, he is not an investor, but a moron. I believe Harth knows what investment means, he is just asking what countries are good to invest.

fromdownunder wrote:

Now, I just did a rough check of my China "pre war" and I have over three hundred different, none of which would be worth more than One Dollar, so yes I will stick by my statement.

Norm, I am talking about mint sets here. Do you have the 1910s and 1920s sets? Do you have the first two airmails? Do you have any of the 1942 "inland surface" overprints? Do you have commemorative sets? I don't bother to ask if you have errors and any of the enormous variety of oddities.

How would you expect 300 most common lose definitives from kiloware worth something, and otherwise draw the conclusion "a lot of pre war stuff is around in the millions and will always be worthless" ?

In my previous post I have given an overview of values of Nationalist issues. Issues which worth considerably something take up more than half of the total. If you still insist to rely on your 300 cheapies as statistical samples, you are unable to see the big picture.

SG is only and only for GB and the Commonwealth stamps. Norm, flip a Chinese published specialized catalogue for China, check the prices there.

It isn't a sin to combine hobby and investment, they have no conflicts. Just that I think it can be a bit tiring to do.

mrboggler · **Posted:** Mon Mar 12, 2012 19:01:14 pm

Yes what you say is true,it CAN be a combined Hobby and Investment,

BUT ONLY with a great deal of KNOWLEDGE,not just a general question,"what Countries do you think stamps can be investments," and expect a heap of answers.that will only get a beginner into deep dodo.

Every Country has some good stamps,mostly scarce Watermarks,unusual Perforations,Errors.etc. and it is only through gathering knowledge over the years and becoming an Expert in that field should it be attempted.

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Mon Mar 12, 2012 19:47:08 pm

Another point not mentioned yet: you have to know what a 'fair selling price' is for an item, any item.

Say you decide to collect Aussie high-face 'Roos. You attend an auction, and bid determinedly on some items. Have you spent your money wisely buying item A at $500, item B at $3,000, item C at $800? Or was there someone in the room who needed item B to complete their set, thus they got into a bidding war with you, and you could have gotten an example in similar condition elsewhere for $2,500. If that's the case, you've just spent 20% more than necessary, and it will take even longer to see a profit on your 'investment'.

You want China stamps? Fine, auctions in HK will have 3 or 6 or a dozen examples, no kidding, of the same 1970s M/S's. And they'll sell one after the other for the same price. If the first sells for $1,600, the 2nd, 3rd, 4th will too. Buyers aren't stupid, its a stock-standard commodity.

Items that could increase in value are postal history, or errors, or stamps with printer imprints or other selvedge writing. A sheet of 100 will only have 1 or 2 or maybe max 4 stamps with such writing. Covers can be 'special' for a rare postmark, or a rate.

But then, what if 10 years from now interest in collecting sheet numbers or printer monograms has dropped off. So too will values. What if the few collectors of postmarks from where-ever you've assembled your investment of material aren't at a particular sale. Prices realized will reflect that.

When you want to buy stocks, or have stocks to sell, what do you do, you go to the stock exchange. So to does everyone else. Its one giant central marketplace where all the buyers and all the sellers trade, prices are known instantly, and change second-by-second. For stamps? You can sell through any of 1,000 or whatever number of auction houses. Maybe they will advertise widely, or not.

You can deal with a dealer. Maybe they will have what you want to buy, or not. Maybe they will offer you the best price when you're selling, or not. Nobody knows the value of material from everywhere, so maybe they'll price things accurately, maybe they'll (inadvertantly) overcharge you when you buy, or quote you a low offer when you sell to them, because they specialize in pre-QEII Empire and your choice for a portfolio is 19th century Scandanavia.

Its been said before, but bears repeating. Do your homework.

You are not a baby, and information is not pablum. No-one is going to spoonfeed you all the answers or hold your hand guiding you at everything. If you want a 'how to get rich' programme, attend a Tony Robbins seminar, or buy one of those books from an informercial marketed as "I made $200,000 in six months, and now I'll tell you my secret".

Harth · **Posted:** Tue Mar 13, 2012 03:14:06 am

mrboggler wrote:

Yes what you say is true,it CAN be a combined Hobby and Investment,
Every Country has some good stamps,mostly scarce Watermarks,unusual Perforations,Errors.etc. and it is only through gathering knowledge over the years and becoming an Expert in that field should it be attempted.

Thanks for sharing us with your Knowledge and advice
now we are sharing the same( Hobby) friendship.
(You ask the questions - SOMEONE will have the answers!)

My Regards

Harth · **Posted:** Tue Mar 13, 2012 03:44:12 am

[quote="aethelwulf"]Another point not mentioned yet: you have to know what a 'fair selling price' is for an item, any item..

Items that could increase in value are postal history, or errors, or stamps with printer imprints or other selvedge writing. A sheet of 100 will only have 1 or 2 or maybe max 4 stamps with such writing. Covers can be 'special' for a rare postmark, or a rate.

Its been said before, but bears repeating. Do your homework.

( :lol:

You are not a baby, and information is not pablum. No-one is going to spoonfeed you all the answers or hold your hand guiding you at everything

)

Thanks for your posting.
Best Regards

You ask the questions - SOMEONE will have the answers!

Balneum · **Posted:** Tue Mar 13, 2012 23:48:28 pm

The Investment service, the Motley Fool, which operates in the US, UK and Australia recently had a podcast on the subject of investing in stamps. (http://www.fool.co.uk). There is also an on-line transcript. It was a very mild interview of Stanley Gibbons and so you will see I posted there some comments for the benefit of people with lots of money but no knowledge of stamps.
Regards

Nguyen · **Posted:** Thu Mar 15, 2012 00:13:47 am

doug2222usa wrote:

Since economic power seems to be migrating toward Asia, I would look at Asia first; follow the money.

Strictly my opinions, in no certain order:

YES: Singapore, Korea, Vietnam, Bhutan.

MAYBE: PRC, Thailand, Indonesia, Iraq, Malaysia.

NO: Japan, Taiwan, Philippines, India, Iran, Sri Lanka,
Afghanistan, Mongolia, Burma/Myanmar, Bangladesh.

==========
All these countries are fine to collect, study, and research;
I'm talking investing.

Very well put. I'd only add Laos and Cambodia in "YES".

figmente · **Posted:** Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:13:32 am

Harth wrote:

Hello.

If you want to collect stamp as hobby plus long investments, what Countries do you think you buy in stamps?

Rule 1 - Avoid buying areas of pronounced current popularity. What's popular varies over time, so if you are holding long, these will tend to be where you buy high, sell low.

Rule 2 - Avoid items popular with investors. Investment driven values are much more volatile than those driven by collector interest. This is one of the reasons behind the postal history recommendations above, too much knowledge needed for investors.

Flash · **Posted:** Thu Mar 15, 2012 14:59:17 pm

On a less serious note I´d like to add Spanish stamps to the good investment list.

Since the AFINSA scandal several years back when thousands lost up to 96% of their invested portfolio in what turned out to be a Ponsi scheme, prices have dropped so low around the country that they surely can´t drop any lower, hence their prices can only go up in my opinion.

But it´s gonna take a long........long time. (give it twenty years+)

fromdownunder · **Posted:** Thu Mar 15, 2012 15:07:56 pm

Nguyen wrote:

Very well put. I'd only add Laos and Cambodia in "YES".

I assume you mean earlies, and not the modern wallpaper. If not, I have some really nice "investments" I would like to sell you.

We really should be very careful about "blanket" recommendations for investing - I have already cited China earlier in this thread. I could say "Australia", and some tyro goes out and buys up a whole lot of decimals, and used Kiloware, wonders why he cannot sell it at any price, and then comes back to me.

And only then do I say, no, I really only meant the 1913 - 1946 Kangaroos, and not even many of them.

Norm

Dweeker · **Posted:** Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:26:42 am

While I appreciate the idea that a hobby can also be an investment, the reality is that stamp collecting should be done because one loves it, and not because a profit is expected. Any appreciation in value one realizes is a happy by-product for engaging in this hobby.

If it is investment you are seeking, coin collecting is probably more lucrative. In the first place, the coin's metal has intrinsic value, with any numismatic value heaved on top of the value of the coin. Unfortunately, coin collecting is boring (my apologies to numismatists out there), and is a rather expensive hobby. While it is true that stamp collecting can be just as expensive, you stand a greater chance of finding something valuable in an un-searched box lot. Moreover, there are a large proportion of coin "collectors" that are merely investors. Thankfully, stamps have not been that way in many, many years. Perhaps the last time stamp collecting was dominated by investors is when there was a stamp "exchange" that was described in Herman Hearst's Nassau Street.

Perhaps this is a little misplaced, but the expansion of stamp certification is an unfortunate attempt for stamp collecting to become more like coin collecting. Of course, I'm not against all certification, as the valuable service of expertizing is a part of this process. However, I believe that certification services are attempting to make stamp collecting more palatable to investors, which is unfortunate.

I don't want to beat up our friend who asked which countries will be good for investment, because I believe it was an honest question. However, stamp collecting, by and large, is not the place for deliberate investment. Then again, this comes from someone who does not ever foresee selling his collection, who hopes instead to pass it down to the next generation.

Sisophon · **Posted:** Fri Mar 16, 2012 20:02:09 pm

fromdownunder wrote:

Nguyen wrote:

Very well put. I'd only add Laos and Cambodia in "YES".

I assume you mean earlies, and not the modern wallpaper. If not, I have some really nice "investments" I would like to sell you.

As a matter of fact, early stamps (monarchy period) give little investments, only proofs worth something.

And about the "modern wallpaper" which many traditionalists love to call them, they have gone up 30% to 50% in the last few years (I can give you a long list of countries which don't). The overprints and a few odd sets are sought after. And those issued in the last decade are absolutely no wallpaper, print run drops like diving, no CTOs, S/S are low in thousands or sometimes hundreds.

If you offer the Cambodia 2011 fish S/S under 30 times of face, I take ten.

Saying a certain country is hot certainly doesn't mean every single stamp ever issued hot. It is just a general description. Norm, seems you care too much about the average housewives' silly buying, if people do not do deep research before making investment, it is at their own risk.


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