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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 09:07:36 am 
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Since I am no expert in this area, I would like to know your opinion about this early Att overprint.

Image

I looked at "Siam Att overprints exhibit" at Exponet web site and this stamp is shown with a remark that it is very rare - about 40 stamps are only known.

I bought it very cheap, so I assume it is a forgery?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 18:32:03 pm 
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I'm not an expert on Siam Stamps. But from my ref, the CDS obtained is not fm that era. I presume its not genuine based on comparison with few Thai Occupation Malaya stamps in my collection. Anyway its just my opinion.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 04:54:44 am 
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The overprint sure looks like Scott 26/ Saeng-Ngern 27. But some authorities consider this surcharge to be a forgery to start with and may not be an official one.
Anyway, it needs a certificate. CV approx. 350 000 baht.
The cds is Bang-Pa-In in central Thailand and has nothing to do with the Thai occupation of Malaya...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 05:22:32 am 
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mika2671 wrote:
The overprint sure looks like Scott 26/ Saeng-Ngern 27. But some authorities consider this surcharge to be a forgery to start with and may not be an official one.
Anyway, it needs a certificate. CV approx. 350 000 baht.
The cds is Bang-Pa-In in central Thailand and has nothing to do with the Thai occupation of Malaya...

Thanks for the info. In the exhibit status of this overprint is mentioned. In the exhibit is mentioned that they are known used from 1890.
I tried to decipher the date of cancellation, and the only three numerals are 119? I am not sure if this is Ratana Kosin Sok date which corresponds to 1900 which seems to late.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 05:44:35 am 
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The surcharge was issued in September 1890 and while the Rattanakosin era dated postmarks continued in use officially until April 1, 1913, I find it possible to have this stamp cancelled as in your specimen. Also, Bang-Pa-In was a provincial post office with a quite moderate stamp consumption. But as I wrote earlier you will need a certificate.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 19:42:33 pm 
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Re the overprint I found this on Prestige Philatelys auction site:

"This is one of the most contentious stamps in all of Thai philately. Although accorded full catalogue status by Hobby International, the Frajola & Ostlie entry is in italics which means "believed to be...issued without official sanction". However, Thai collectors clearly accept its validity, and it's inclusion in Len Colgan's "Bangkok 1993" exhibit was not challenged. Vincent Polizatto considered the issue to be genuine, stating that "the English numeral '1' is identical with other types and used copies [sic] are known from 1890".


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 06:57:36 am 
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Thank Mika for the Prestige site info.

I have only one more question - the overprint were printed in one operation or from more parts?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 20:11:39 pm 
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ikanek wrote:
I have only one more question - the overprint were printed in one operation or from more parts?


I could not find any info on that, Frajola does not mention it in his handbook.
But as the English numeral is identical with the other surcharges of that era, I assume the overprinting was done in two or three operations. The Thai numeral being one, Thai character one and finally the English numeral. Even if the Thai character and the English numeral are tilted in a matching angle.
The overprinting was done with handstamps.

I may have have some literature on that somewhere and will look into it later.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 01:49:28 am 
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For what it is worth, when I wrote the book on Siam way back in 1980, my conclusion on that stamp was based on careful study of the Pears collection which had been formed in first thirty years of the 20th Century and certainly the finest study collection ever formed. Pears considered it to have been made to order from original devices but applied well after period of puported use.

After additional study, I concurred with Pears assessment (and the collection contained several examples of the stamp). I tracked the first appearance in philatelic literature and scources of the information and they pointed to a single individual who I surmise was the original manufacturer or purveyor.

The fact that some collectors choose to collect the stamps is a personal matter. The fact that they appear in major collections is also a personal matter. I would use the phrase "genuine as they exist" meaning that the item is what it appears to be but status of the item is questioned.

Please note that I am NOT expressing an opinion on the specific stamp imaged.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 03:38:02 am 
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Richard, a minor coup, or accomplishment, or however one may see it, to have you onboard on Stampboards.

I've been dabbling in collecting Thailand for 10 years or so, and your handbook was the first reference literature on the country that I purchased...since then I've acquired a range of catalogues and vintage reference books and the like. Really need to stop being pulled in 6 different directions with various collections and get to work on the Thai material I have scattered everywhere.

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