Banging the drum for the Uglies

peterh · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2012 21:56:38 pm

tonymacg wrote:

Nice to see another reader of Lovecraft here. Cthulhu seemed rather appropriate; he (it?) was surely the ugliest of Lovecraft's creations :lol:

Another here. I had spotted your Cthulhu reference, but wasn't sure how to mention it, so thanks for that birder.

When I first read Lovecraft, I noticed one of his favourite words was 'eldritch', which I had to look up at the time. Although some think it is derived from 'elvish', the consensus is that it derives from the Old English roots æl-rīce, meaning foreign, strange or other-worldly, which is more or less its present meaning.

Maybe it is a word that could be introduced in place of 'Ugly' as a Lovecraftian description of this sphere of philately.

tonymacg · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2012 23:07:05 pm

"Banging the drum for the Eldritches"? Hmmm ...

peterh · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2012 23:52:33 pm

tonymacg wrote:

"Banging the drum for the Eldritches"? Hmmm ...

I was thinking of it more in the singular, such as 'Eldritch Philately'

tonymacg · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2012 23:58:38 pm

Sounds much more refined. It might even save the Uglies/Eldritches from their undeserved hatred, ridicule & contempt.

birder · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2012 01:45:11 am

Eldritch Philately..sounds more like the name of a philatelic dealer.

www.aldrichstamps.com and www.eldritchphilately.com

tonymacg · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2012 10:02:07 am

Maybe - perhaps some long-established, slightly stuffy English dealer, specialising in British and Commonwealth?

mukulgarga · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2012 23:04:40 pm

Tony could you please identify the first stamp in this group?

tonymacg · **Posted:** Mon May 14, 2012 23:57:25 pm

It looks to be a Gibbons Inscription C, SG 37, 37a, 37b or 37c. Or are you looking for the Benns' setting?

jumet · **Posted:** Tue May 15, 2012 03:39:13 am

Tony: If and when you manage to move to R'lyeh I would be honored if I might buy you a pair of L.L.Bean (American) waders --- you'll probably need them. ( And I suggest you leave your mint stamps in Oz.!)

tonymacg · **Posted:** Tue May 15, 2012 09:57:43 am

The Great Old Ones are not fazed by little things like a couple of miles of Pacific Ocean overhead, Jim. Besides, Barwani SG 1 to 31 didn't have gum :lol:

mukulgarga · **Posted:** Tue May 15, 2012 13:10:55 pm

tonymacg wrote:

It looks to be a Gibbons Inscription C, SG 37, 37a, 37b or 37c. Or are you looking for the Benns' setting?

Tony, Colour is distinctively black, though a lighter shade, so it makes it 37c. SG does not give any value for it. What might be the reason for this?
I do not have any knowledge about Benn's settings where can I find them?

birder · **Posted:** Tue May 15, 2012 14:14:34 pm

mukulgarga wrote:

tonymacg wrote:

It looks to be a Gibbons Inscription C, SG 37, 37a, 37b or 37c. Or are you looking for the Benns' setting?

Tony, Colour is distinctively black, though a lighter shade, so it makes it 37c. SG does not give any value for it. What might be the reason for this?
I do not have any knowledge about Benn's settings where can I find them?

India Study Circle is the answer.

tonymacg · **Posted:** Tue May 15, 2012 23:53:48 pm

I've had a look at the illustration of this stamp in Ray Benns' India Study Circle Bundi Sacred Cows Handbook, and your stamp doesn't look like the photo there. I believe your stamp is probably an altered ½ Anna, which should be black, and so is a forgery.

tonymacg · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2012 01:01:06 am

An interesting little curio I wheedled away from member Hutch today:

This is, of course, an Indore postal stationery card which appears to have been used at Sundarsi in Dhar. Sundarsi must have been one of the dual-control Dhar and Indore territories, because it's marked as Indore territory on my Indore map, but Dhar territory on my Dhar map

It was a very long way from the main body of Dhar territory, but it was also isolated from the rest of Indore: an enclave, surrounded by Gwalior territory.

This is the sort of thing that makes the philately of the old Central India so entertaining!

birder · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2012 01:23:06 am

Very very nice item that is unique in many ways.

1. It is a "registered" Post Card addressed to the Accountant General.
2. The words "Kaar Sarkaar" in the very first line mean "On Government Service".
3. Inside the oval handstamp is the serial number 7761 dated 27.3.12
4. Just before the first word in the address is "Register No 503 dt 25.3.12"

Just imagine... A "service" postcard of the Holkars sent by "registered post" bearing clear evidence of despatch and reciept !!!!

Of course the postal charges paid appear to be that of an ordinary post card.But that does not diminish my excitement in any way.
I am sure the other side of this item would also be interesting.

Thanks for sharing such a nice image.

Thanks and regards.

tonymacg · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2012 01:32:44 am

Thanks for making sense of some of that handwriting for me, Birder

And now, just before I switch off for the night, here is the reverse of the card:

Is it a case of the Dhar authorities communicating with the Indore authorities?

birder · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2012 01:50:40 am

Informing them that there was no "Jama Kharch" on 24.3.12.

This could mean either that there were no transactions on 24 th March or that there was no "cash in hand" (or "imprest"?) on 24.3.12. I am not well versed with the accounting terminology of those days.

birder · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2012 04:23:24 am

And I found a very similar one in my collection.

Wonder what is the KGV service stamp doing there??

tonymacg · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2012 10:31:51 am

Birder, I think the answer to your question about the additional ¼ Anna is fairly straightforward. By 1927, the British Indian (and hence Indore) postcard rate was ½ Anna, so your card had to be uprated. My Higgins & Gage shows the Indian postcard rate being raised from ¼ to ½ Anna in 1921-2.

Thinking about the Sundarsi enclave, I wonder about the economics of maintaining it. From the map, it looks to have been quite small. Unless it was particularly wealthy for some reason (a Google search doesn't offer anything useful), it must have been kept up purely for prestige. After all, it was remote enough from the rest of Indore, and particularly remote from the rest of Dhar. Perhaps the Dhar presence was purely nominal (hence the 'Sundarsi/Dhar' postmaark), with the actual administration performed by Indore.

birder · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2012 11:34:20 am

This is what the Imperial Gazzetteer has to say regarding Sundarsi.

Mehidpur Zila. — District of the Indore State, Central India, lying
between 23°5 / and 23 48" N. and 75 32' and 76 35' E., in the Sondh-
wara division of Malwa, with an area of 840 square miles. It con-
sists of two separate sections : the main block, and the Sundarsi pargana
which lies south-east of the former. The country is typical of Malwa,
consisting of an open undulating plain covered with black cotton soil.
It is watered by the Sipra, Kali Sind, and ChhotI Kali Sind, and has an
annual rainfall of 25 inches. The population decreased from 120,869
in 1891 to 91,857 in 1901, giving a density in the latter year of 109
persons per square mile. The District contains two towns, Mehidpur
(population, 6,681), the head-quarters, and Tarana (4,490); and 432^
villages. The one-third village is due to the curious tripartite possession
of Sundarsi by the Gwalior, Dhar, and Indore Darbars, each State
having an equal portion of the place.

That probably explains why the staff posted at Sundarsi were reporting to the Accountant General at Indore.

birder · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2012 11:45:44 am

tonymacg wrote:

Birder, I think the answer to your question about the additional ¼ Anna is fairly straightforward. By 1927, the British Indian (and hence Indore) postcard rate was ½ Anna, so your card had to be uprated. My Higgins & Gage shows the Indian postcard rate being raised from ¼ to ½ Anna in 1921-2.

Tony, the doubt that had arisen in my mind was more basic. What is the KGV stamp (and British PO CDS) doing on this postcard. Either there should have been a KGV postcard with KGV stamp or the Holkar postcard should have been uprated with a Holkar stamp.The combination is baffling...

tonymacg · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2012 11:51:27 am

Excellent! Thanks, Birder.

So Sundarsi wasn't just a dual Dhar-Indore administration, it was a tripartite Dhar-Gwalior-Indore administration! From this Indore postcard, it looks as if Indore may have had the day-to-day running of Sundarsi - unless someone can find some equivalent Gwalior Service mail ...

tonymacg · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2012 11:55:26 am

birder wrote:

tonymacg wrote:

Birder, I think the answer to your question about the additional ¼ Anna is fairly straightforward. By 1927, the British Indian (and hence Indore) postcard rate was ½ Anna, so your card had to be uprated. My Higgins & Gage shows the Indian postcard rate being raised from ¼ to ½ Anna in 1921-2.

Tony, the doubt that had arisen in my mind was more basic. What is the KGV stamp (and British PO CDS) doing on this postcard. Either there should have been a KGV postcard with KGV stamp or the Holkar postcard should have been uprated with a Holkar stamp.The combination is baffling...

I've seen other Indore cards uprated with Imperial stamps. In fact, I think some have been posted here on Stampboards before this. Perhaps opkedia can comment, but it looks as if Indore must have received supplies of Imperial Service stamps, for use in addition to its own stamps. I can't imagine why that would happen, unless there was a temporary shortage of Indore ¼ Anna stamps around this time.

tonymacg · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2012 12:11:25 pm

This prompted me to have a closer look at my Indore stamps. (I stress that I haven't tried to collect Indore seriously, so my collection is quite patchy.)

In 1927 (the date of Birder's postcard), the last ¼ Anna issued would have been the Tukoji Holkar III type of 1904; the new Yeshwant Rao Holkar II types were issued in 1927, but might not yet have been in wide enough circulation. They might not yet have reached an outpost like Sundarsi, anyway.

I found I have curiously few used Tukoji Rao Holkar used ¼ Annas (only around a dozen) compared with the ½ Anna (around 100). Only one or two ¼ Annas had readable dates, and the latest was 1921. All this makes me think that Sundarsi might have run out of Indore ¼ Annas by the time of Birder's card, and that the problem might have been general across Indore at the time. This might have led to the temporary use of Imperial ¼ Anna Service stamps.

Does anyone know for certain?

birder · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2012 12:16:22 pm

Amar Farooqui has written an interesting book called "Sindias and the Raj". He writes

"Of the 30 villages comprising the Sundarsi revenue unit, 12 were held by Sindia, 11 by Holkar and 6 by the Dhar Pawars, while the town of Sundarsi was under the joint management of Sindia, Holkar and Pawar."

He then goes on to describe the sorry plight of the Zamindar of Sundarsi who had to negotiate terms with officials of the three Maratha chiefs as well as those of the Company. Too many masters...

tonymacg · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2012 12:25:28 pm

Indeed: though I wonder how sorry one should feel for a zamindar

birder · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2012 12:33:21 pm

tonymacg wrote:

Indeed: though I wonder how sorry one should feel for a zamindar

The India Study Circle list of post offices shows that Both Gwalior and Indore maintained Post Offices in Sundarsi. Dhar is not mentioned.

In view of your clear postmark (Sundarsi, Dhar), probably the ISC list might need an update.

mukulgarga · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2012 13:15:07 pm

Dear Tony/Birder
Here's something I found in an excerpt of a research book on scindias and Raj
quote
"Kalyan Singh was the son of Bhopal Sigh, Jamindar of Sundarsi.The zamindar of Sundarsi traditionally enjoyed large haqs (rights) in that Pergunna, which had steadily been encroached upon due to the peculiar administrative arrangement of the place.Of the 30 villages belonging to the Sundarsi Pergunna unit, 12 were held by Scindia, 11 by Holkar, and 6 by Dhar Pawars, while the town of Sundarsi was under the joint management of Scindia,Holkar and Pawar."
unquote
This would prove a definitive presence of Dhar postoffice at Sundarsi. I am giving below the link if it opens up) for your further perusal
http://books.google.co.in/books?id=dXHo ... ar&f=false

tonymacg · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2012 16:03:00 pm

Thanks, Mukulgarga! Some day I'll have to sort through my Indore and Gwalior material for Sundarsi cancellations. The postal history of that little corner of Central India looks to be quite fascinating.

pothbhola · **Posted:** Wed May 16, 2012 23:12:32 pm

If memory serves me right, I once read an article on uprated PCs of Indore by Indian adhesives. I can't find the Index to ISC Journal so can not, at this time at least, point to the exact issue.

tonymacg · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 00:49:20 am

I've added a few more Wiki threads, on Bhor and Jhalawar, and started one on Idar. They also only attempt to illustrate the Gibbons listings, so won't be of use to serious collectors of the Uglies, but they may help guide beginners.

The links are:

For Bhor http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=37304

For Jhalawar: http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=37303

For Idar: http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=37315

jadrake · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 01:46:02 am

I think "we" (based on this thread there are at least a dozen of us) should be called "intermediates". Afterall, we can not only identify perforation varieties, dies, printing types, paper types, color shades and plate flaws, and I would say I can probably now help identify a large portion of fakes and reprints from some states....

While we may be beginners in the sense that we don't have a stock book of Barwani used post cards lying around, we are learning and exploring this fascinating world of Indian States philately.... Be careful with labels. They might offend someone. :roll:

Afterall, I for one am only in my mid 30s.... I might just be the putz that buys that collection of Barwani "art" (using the term loosely) someday!

-J

tonymacg · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 10:14:23 am

Ah, well, Jason, that's why I segregated these threads away in the Wiki

I wanted to keep them out of the hair of the collectors like you, who know their way around the Uglies. When I started this thread, my idea was simply to provide a sort of poor man's Wiki of the Indian States. I had no idea of the interest there was in the Uglies, or that the thread would grow into the monster it has. Now seems the time to go back, and launch a proper Wiki for the uninitiated.

More seriously, having grappled with the shades and papers of the Idar ½ Annas, and having finally wrestled them to the ground (I think), I thought that part of Idar might be of broader use to other collectors.

I will brook no argument over Barwani :lol:

, but on many of the other States, a collaborative effort is definitely needed.

mukulgarga · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 13:31:44 pm

I have never read or seen Bundi on a vertically laid paper. So what is this?

birder · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 14:31:53 pm

..My mind is still on Sundarsi. Has anyone heard of "Teen Amli Dhar Indore & Gwalior" stamps or stamp papers. Would be very interesting if they exist. "Teen" means "three" in Hindi.

tonymacg · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 15:26:51 pm

mukulgarga wrote:

I have never read or seen Bundi on a vertically laid paper. So what is this?

I thought I'd seen something similar from Bundi, so I went searching through my copies and found

I have another copy of SG 32 in which the effect isn't as pronounced. It isn't mentioned in the ISC Sacred Cows Handbook. Looking hard at my copy, I can't see the typical wove 'mesh' pattern in the paper, but the lines aren't quite as distinct as I'd expect in a typical laid paper. The paper is thin, and I think it's typical of what Gibbons describes as the pelure paper used for some of these printings.

mukulgarga · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 16:13:02 pm

You are Tony. This seems to be the pelure paper. I did a quick google search and find this

"Thin, often brittle, semi-transparent paper and can be either wove or laid and is rendered semi-tranparent by the resins used in the manufacturing of the paper. Stamps printed on pelure paper sometimes do not survive wholly intact because of their brittle nature. Pelure is easily identified because of its transparency. Pelure is a French word meaning skin or peel, like that of a banana, which is why sometimes this paper is compared to onionskin paper."
I think this matches the stamp paper.

jadrake · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 16:20:38 pm

Pelure was used for some of the early New Zealand stamps but another ugly country that has a strongly pelure paper is the Duttia SG 17b on yellow-green pelure paper (I always wondered why it was just this single stamp from Duttia with the Pelure paper). This is prototypical of what you'd find with Pelure. Almost tissue paper like. I know Pelure papers will barely show laid lines but handle with extreme caution - very delicate much like Poonch stamps.

-Jason

tonymacg · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 16:28:38 pm

From memory, one or two other values of the Sacred Cows were also printed on pelure paper. Charkhari SG 36 (the 1943 ½ Anna black) was also printed on pelure, but I don't have a copy to show. The Charkhari printing may have been due to a wartime shortage of better paper. The Bundi 4 Annas appeared in 1915, so perhaps they were due to another wartime shortage.

tonymacg · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 16:39:11 pm

This is the Duttia pelure paper printing:

Unless there was a shortage of better papers due to the Boer War

, maybe that was the only 'green' paper the Duttia printers could find at the time.

SG 154 of Jammu & Kashmir, the 1883-94 2 Annas on deep green paper, is also on a near pelure,

though I think it's rather just a very thin orthodox wove really. Odd that both the Duttia, and the slightly earlier Jammu & Kashmir, are green papers.

opkedia52 · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 02:35:24 am

tonymacg wrote:

An interesting little curio I wheedled away from member Hutch today:

This is, of course, an Indore postal stationery card which appears to have been used at Sundarsi in Dhar. Sundarsi must have been one of the dual-control Dhar and Indore territories, because it's marked as Indore territory on my Indore map, but Dhar territory on my Dhar map

It was a very long way from the main body of Dhar territory, but it was also isolated from the rest of Indore: an enclave, surrounded by Gwalior territory.

This is the sort of thing that makes the philately of the old Central India so entertaining!

At last there is something where I may be able to contribute:

Indore post amalgamated with Imperial post on Apr.1908.The salient feature of merger were:
1.All Indore P.O.merged with Imperial P.O.on above date.

2.Indore postal stationaries and stamps(the existing service stamps were to be destroyed) can be used for official purpose only upto a ceiling of Rs. 25000 p.a..

3.As a collary to above after 1908 Holkar offices situated outside Indore region was able to use Indore stamps for official communication which was not possible earlier.Mr. Tony's postcard is an example of Holkar stationary being used by Holkar official at Imperial P.O. of Sundersi ( a joint enclave) .

I have in my exhibit a similar Postcard used in 1940 by Holkar official at Alampur( a very distant enclave in United Province at least 500 Kms from Holkar boundary) .The image is shown below:

There was an article in ISC journal about indore stamps used in Dhar.In fact the examples shown were used only after 1908 and above explains the reason thereof.

This is the postal history part of the cover.However i enjoyed the discussions on it about the joint administrations of Sundersi and allied details.

Thanks.

opkedia

opkedia52 · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 02:44:55 am

birder wrote:

Very very nice item that is unique in many ways.

1. It is a "registered" Post Card addressed to the Accountant General.
2. The words "Kaar Sarkaar" in the very first line mean "On Government Service".
3. Inside the oval handstamp is the serial number 7761 dated 27.3.12
4. Just before the first word in the address is "Register No 503 dt 25.3.12"

Just imagine... A "service" postcard of the Holkars sent by "registered post" bearing clear evidence of despatch and reciept !!!!

Of course the postal charges paid appear to be that of an ordinary post card.But that does not diminish my excitement in any way.
I am sure the other side of this item would also be interesting.

Thanks for sharing such a nice image.

Thanks and regards.

I would like to make my observation on above item:

All official letters of Holkar state should must quote despatch diary no. and sign of the authorised officer otherwise it was treated as unpaid by Imperial post.
The first part is register no. of the despatch office and the sign in oval is of recieving office.It is not a registered letter hence there was no additional stamp or seal.

I am showing below a page of my exhibit where a letter was taxed because there was no signature of sending officer

opkedia

opkedia52 · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 02:50:11 am

birder wrote:

And I found a very similar one in my collection.

Wonder what is the KGV service stamp doing there??

"Birder, I think the answer to your question about the additional ¼ Anna is fairly straightforward. By 1927, the British Indian (and hence Indore) postcard rate was ½ Anna, so your card had to be uprated. My Higgins & Gage shows the Indian postcard rate being raised from ¼ to ½ Anna in 1921-2." -Mr. Tony

As I have mentioned earlier the Indore state was allowed a grant of 25000 Rs. for their use after 1908.This grant can be in terms of their own stamps or imperial stamps.If the Holkar stamps were not available the local offices were allowed to buy Imperial service stamps within above grant.This was the reason behind Imperial service stamps being used with Holkar postcard.
opkedia

ikanek · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 03:45:22 am

tonymacg wrote:

I will brook no argument over Barwani :lol:

, but on many of the other States, a collaborative effort is definitely needed.

Tony, I totally agree. I wish to co-operate, but my collection is very poor. I can add only Travancore and T&C section, but my collection is not much complete. :lol:

azzaro · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 09:15:34 am

I was offered some 'MODERN RESTRIKES: THE STAAL-SHARMAS'
Guessing these could be fakes? Interested in learned members opinion of authenticity and value

There are 3 panes.
2 panes of 15 (one of these has 1620/7 written on the corner, the other has 2a in the corner)
1 pane of 20 (this has 1620/20 written on the corner)

From http://www.kashmirstamps.ca/Overview.html
The wounded implements came to rest at the Sri Pratap Singh Museum in Srinagar. A few impressions of each in purple and black ink were made in August 1981 by Drs Frits Staal and B.P. Sharma in a wonderful summer adventure. The story is recounted in their essay, “Five Fruitful Days in Srinagar” in Staal’s text, The Stamps of Jammu and Kashmir (1983), a must for any J&K collector. A scan is of the ½a+1a Jammu Composite Plate is shown above. Five such reprints were produced from this implement. Reference: Staal pp 148-59

Pane 1620/7 here

Looking at the one picture shown on the kashmirstamps website I notice one difference in the margin between the stamps.
http://www.kashmirstamps.ca/staal/Jstaal.jpg

tonymacg · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 10:41:24 am

azzaro wrote:

I was offered some 'MODERN RESTRIKES: THE STAAL-SHARMAS'
Guessing these could be fakes? Interested in learned members opinion of authenticity and value

There are 3 panes.
2 panes of 15 (one of these has 1620/7 written on the corner, the other has 2a in the corner)
1 pane of 20 (this has 1620/20 written on the corner)

From http://www.kashmirstamps.ca/Overview.html
The wounded implements came to rest at the Sri Pratap Singh Museum in Srinagar. A few impressions of each in purple and black ink were made in August 1981 by Drs Frits Staal and B.P. Sharma in a wonderful summer adventure. The story is recounted in their essay, “Five Fruitful Days in Srinagar” in Staal’s text, The Stamps of Jammu and Kashmir (1983), a must for any J&K collector. A scan is of the ½a+1a Jammu Composite Plate is shown above. Five such reprints were produced from this implement. Reference: Staal pp 148-59

Pane 1620/7 here

Looking at the one picture shown on the kashmirstamps website I notice one difference in the margin between the stamps.
http://www.kashmirstamps.ca/staal/Jstaal.jpg

Azzaro, these are quite legitimate 're-strikes'. The book The Stamps of Jammu & Kashmir tells of how the author, Frits Staal, and his collaborator, B.P. Sharma, found the old defaced Jammu & Kashmir implements in the museum in Srinagar, and printed off specimens of everything they found there in the purple ink of the scan. (The page reference is to the chapter in the book on reprints and forgeries. The actual story of the 'Five Fruitful Days in Srinagar' is at pages 229-266.)

The scan you show is of a 1/8 Anna sheet, and it matches the photo in the Staal book. It looks quite OK. These sheets would make a nice addition to a Jammu & Kashmir collection!

For the record, here is an undefaced sheet:

tonymacg · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 11:24:37 am

opkedia52 wrote:

I have in my exhibit a similar Postcard used in 1940 by Holkar official at Alampur( a very distant enclave in United Province at least 500 Kms from Holkar boundary) .The image is shown below:

That is a very nice card, opkedia! I saw the Alampur pargana in a small box by itself, with latitude & longitude, on my Indore map. I didn't realise just how far away from the rest of Indore it really was, though. I wonder about the mechanics of getting the mail to and from Alampur. Surely Indore didn't use runners through all those miles of foreign territory? And if it didn't, I wonder how it did get the mails through.

opkedia52 · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 18:44:46 pm

tonymacg wrote:

opkedia52 wrote:

I have in my exhibit a similar Postcard used in 1940 by Holkar official at Alampur( a very distant enclave in United Province at least 500 Kms from Holkar boundary) .The image is shown below:

That is a very nice card, opkedia! I saw the Alampur pargana in a small box by itself, with latitude & longitude, on my Indore map. I didn't realise just how far away from the rest of Indore it really was, though. I wonder about the mechanics of getting the mail to and from Alampur. Surely Indore didn't use runners through all those miles of foreign territory? And if it didn't, I wonder how it did get the mails through.

Before 1908 Alampur was served by Imperial post only as Holkar didn't have their postal system there.After 1908 the same system continued but the Holkar stamps were valid as explained earlier.

Alampur is a historical town. It was a tehsil in Indore state. It is holy land of Malhar Rao Holkar and Ahilyabai Holkar. There is an ancient chhatri of Malhar Rao Holkar at Alampur. Maharani Ahilya Bai Holkar built the chhatri of Malhar Rao Holkar at Alampur in Bhind district in 1766 A.D.

Malhar Rao Holkar (16 March 1693 – 20 May 1766) was a noble of the Maratha Empire, in present day India. Malhar Rao is particularly known for being the first Maratha Subhedar of Malwa in Central India. he was the first prince from the Holkar family which ruled the state of Indore . He was one of the early officers to help spread the Maratha rule to northern states and was the given state of Indore to rule by the Peshwa's.He died at Alampur, 2 May 1766,[9] and was succeeded by his daughter-in-law Ahilya Bai Holkar. He is considered as one of the architects of Maratha control over India.

opkedia

azzaro · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 18:48:39 pm

Kashmiri

Tonymacg - I notice they say 'A few impressions of each in purple and black ink were made in August 1981 by Drs Frits Staal and B.P. Sharma in a wonderful summer adventure'. I wonder over a 5 day period how many 'a few' is?

In your opinion what is the approx value of the sheets of 15 and 20

Thanks
Azzaro

tonymacg · **Posted:** Fri May 18, 2012 20:29:38 pm

I've answered Azzaro more fully off-list, but from a quick flip through Staal, it seems Staal and Sharma only took one or two impressions from each of the implements they found.

I couldn't find any record of this material selling. Has anyone else any idea of how much it might be worth?


Buy/Sell all paper made collectibles!	*Click for our Current Auction*	*Click For Our Newest Issues*	Internet Auctions-Buy & Sell Stamps

Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum

Banging the drum for the Uglies

Who is online