Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

There are 2 main types of proofs (I am talking the more classical period than the modern day!).

1. Die Proofs - these are pulls of the Die, either on a progressive basis (as the design is being built up) or in the final version. The purpose of these is to keep a record and, more importantly, to check the work.

2. Plate Proofs - these are pulls of the completed printing plate, used to check the plate for imperfections and alignment etc.

I will kick this thread of with a progressive Die Proof. This is, effectively, a master die for the various denominations that were produced for this design (Diadem) for New South Wales in the 1850s. It is actually in the colour of the 5d value, as issued.

The proof is on card.

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

These are Die Proofs of the Queensland Registered stamp issued in 1860. Both these proofs are on large star watermark paper.

First in Green



In the issued colour, yellow

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

These are plate proofs from the original plates for the 1d George V Head. All are on thin glazed card, without watermark.

In Black



In Violet (used subsequently on change of postal rates)



In red, as per original issue colour.

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Proofs are very under-priced IMHO, as per my last 'Stamp News' piece -

http://www.glenstephens.com/sndecember10.html

These plate proofs of the central vignette and finished design I have on my Rarity page, are rather inexpensive -



Australian DIE proofs generally run well into 4 figures each.

I am selling each of these raised print Master Die Proof sets here for $5 a set!

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=23884

This proof from Cochin is a bit of a curiosity, in a couple of ways:



The original recess plate was prepared by Perkins, Bacon, and was used heavily to print this value. When Perkins, Bacon folded, the plates were transferred to The Associated Printers, in Madras. They prepared offset-litho plates from the PB engraved plates, and also printed the 6 Pies value extensively.

Now the first of the oddities. This proof was almost certainly prepared in Madras, but it doesn't have the appearance of an offset-litho. It looks much more like a straight pull from the original plate. The ink stands quite proud of the paper.

The next oddity is the overprint. This is Gibbons Type O11. It was only ever used on the Madras offset-litho printing of this 6 Pies stamp, and is a rarity (£950 mint/£425 used) in its own right.

So we have (presumably) a proof of an overprint on a proof of a stamp.

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

Nice Plate Proof of unissued Perkins Bacon Britannia 4d in Black. I think this was for a planned Watermark Large Star 4d issue, but the value was not needed before De La Rue took over the contract.

Peter,

do you differentiate between Original Die Proofs & Posthumous Die Proofs, some of your State Proofs look like they are Posthumous,

David B.

David, the NSW is on stiff card and could be posthumous (although absence of value is interesting). The QLD are both on Large Star WMK paper and I don't think they are posthumous?

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Peter,

there are circles in the corners of the Queensland Registered stamps, I seem to recall that they were from a retouched die,

David B.

NSW, from RL. page 47 (top of page)

In 1902, 1929 & 1929 reprinted proofs were made by Perkins Bacon for souvenir or study purposes, These are of little philatelic interest, considerable beauty & problematic value.

RL had a way for words,

Queensland,

page 97 1/2 way down the page,

1902 Posthumous Die Proofs of the Registered stamp. showing intact square corners with the curves lines of the final design indicated.

David B.

Thanks David, just shows that you learn something new every day.

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Here are some plate proofs in unadopted colours for the Crete 1905 definitive set each with a SPECIMEN perforation. These were printed by Bradbury Wilkinson.

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Nigel

Nigel,

they are not Plate Proofs, they are Colour Trials made from the completed Dies.

The bicoloured of course were printed from two Dies, one for the vignette & one for the frame,

I like Die Proofs especially unfinished & Plate Proofs but I intensely hate Posthumous Proofs and would never include any in my collection,

David B.

Interesting, I've been using the terminology that Feenstra used in his Crete handbook.

So are you saying that these are not "die proofs" either or do you consider these "colour trials" a form of die proof?

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Nigel

Following Peter's definition in his original post I can see that these (or at least most of them) could hardly be from a completed plate given the margins.

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Nigel

Nigel,

even though they were produced from the Dies I would not consider them Die Proofs but Colour Trials.

By definition Die Proofs are a print from the original engraved Die to prove that the engraving is OK (or not). After the Plate is produced from the Die sometimes they were used for other purposes, such as Colour Trials, Presentation purposes, Illustrations for books, Replica Cards, etc.,

Colour Trials usually are scarce as they were printed in small quantities, in issued & unissued colours and are desirable items to include in a specialised collection.

David B.

Thanks David.

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Nigel

Here are a few proofs of the large Hermes heads

Poorly printed proof of 1 lepton, brown-black on front and back on very thin paper.



Two final proofs of the Paris prints. The left stamp is chocolate-brown on thin slightly brownish paper, the right stamp is reddish-brown on lightly tinted white paper, almost identical to the first accepted stamp



One lepton, black on very thin bright green paper, printed on both sides


20 lepta, color identical to the first 20 lepta stamp, double printed on the front, also printed on the reverse.

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Mike
Why do we need perforations? Scissors are cheap!

Tonga Die Proof,



David B

some Niger Coast Proofs,











David B.

Hi

Some proofs of revenues from Argentina.

Buenos Aires 1877 die proof:


Buenos Aires 1877 proof on cardboard on unadopted colour:


Códoba Province 1888 proofs on cardboard (last one is a normal stamp):


Hope you like them as much as I do!

Happy holidays!
Ernesto

Sunken die proof?
On the back of the card is handstamped Superintendent Operations and handwritten underneath "No 5"




These are the four colour separations and final design

Proof - and despite the size, I believe a die proof - of Hyderabad SG 1



Lovely engraving by, as Gibbons says, 'Mr Rapkin. Plates by Nissen & Parker, London'

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

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.
My Thematic Obsession: "The Story of the Middle Ages (500-1500)"

Some Perkins, Bacon plate proofs for Indore:





and this is footnoted, and priced, by Gibbons for some reason



Not that I'm complaining ... although I'd like to see them priced a trifle higher, now that I own them

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

Not sure if this one is a Die Proof but its signed?

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.
My Thematic Obsession: "The Story of the Middle Ages (500-1500)"

My posts seem to be lacking the border on the left side! Is it my computer or can others (not) see it?

Cheers!

John

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.
My Thematic Obsession: "The Story of the Middle Ages (500-1500)"

John, looks OK to me.

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Here are some proofs of the Post Stamp series from Hyderabad brought out in 1871. First up are some plate proofs of the half anna denomination...



...and are representative of plate numbers 4 and 3 respectively of the four plates used. Plate proofs for the other denominations are here.



The colours are not those finally used. Separate proofs, perforated this time, were made when making trials for the colours that were finally used, but they only bothered to used the half anna denomination for these proofs.



During the more than 30 years use of the plates for this issue further proofs were made. Ones on blue laid paper appeared in about 1880. The intensity of the blue varies greatly on these but in this illustration they have been placed underneath a conventional set to show the difference.



Finally, proof sheets were made to be distributed to printers and representatives of Bradbury Wilkinson as samples of the quality of work undertaken by the company. These were usually perforated 'Specimen' as in this example.

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I believe there is another world waiting for us, Sixsmith. A better world.

From French colonies one sees these -- they're described as, I think I have it right, "Artist-signed Die Proof sunk on card". These were done in pretty limited quantities, 5 or 6 examples maybe?

They're seen in issued colours and also plain black (irrespective of issue colour/colours).

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

A pretty pair from stock -



South Australia 1855 Perkins Bacon London Printings, 2d imperforate plate proof horizontal pair: From Plate 2: In dull carmine-lake on ungummed unwatermarked paper, with good to massive margins, clean and fresh with razor-sharp impression. Ex the "Harry Lower" collection.




Newfoundland 1897 60¢ Black King Henry VII top value, superb PLATE PROOF Block 4: Pristine. Razor sharp impression. "400 Year Anniversary of Discovery" top value of set, SG 79

I can't believe I missed that thread!

A terrific treat of course, as I collect proofs as well, and just spent the better part of a week scanning them in Belgium, so I have many to show!

Here is the first one, which shows a proof for the Tin Hat series, honoring King Albert I, right after WWI.

The proof was not signed by the engraver, who was someone working for Enschede in Haarlem, Holland at the time.

The signer of the proof was the person who designed the stamp, and would go on to become the most prolific engraver of Belgian stamps: Jean De Bast.

It is a proof of the 10c value, but in the color of the 2 francs value, which is the key value of the set.

Some US Die Proofs.

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"Life is a tough Teacher, it gives you the test first and the lesson later"
Anonymous

Stallzer

Your last three scanned are Plate Proofs on card (P4) rather than Die Proofs.

There is a possibility that the 1869 90c. Lincoln is a Roosevelt Die Proof (P2) with gray backing paper removed but without being able to examine I cannot say. If on India paper then, of course, it becomes a Plate Proof. (P3)

A tad pedantic, but for informational purposes.

Kindest regards, Richard

Another one of King Albert I signed by Jean De Bast.

And this time, he did engrave the stamp:

Below is the only proof I have in my collection:



It is the portrait of Captain Cook from the Cook Islands 1½ of 1920 (Scott 63), and the 1½d of Aitutaki of 1920 (Scott 30)

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Regards, Jay

From the same King Albert I set as my previous post, engraved by Jean De Bast:

Bavaria Prince Regent Issue

Unadopted Issue - Prince Regent Luitpold Issue Bavaria

This proof is an unfinished state (the fourth state to be exact) of the engraving for the 1925 set that commemorates the 75th anniversary of the first Belgian stamp.

The stamp indicates 1849-1924, and the engraving was done in 1924.

The proof is dated and signed by Georges Montenez:

This one is from The Belgium Unesco set issued in 1951, engraved and signed by Leon Janssens:

The detail in the vignette seems very rough and vague for a trial/plate proof Normally these are very clear as they are early pulls from the plates so have no wear or damage.

Here's a similar one I bought along with a number of others. From Perkins Bacon plates for the Rarotonga 1920 issue:



And this similar block but imperf with frames:



You can see what I mean about the detail.

I do see the difference. My example clearly lacks the detail that yours shows.

Do you have any idea of the proper term for my example?

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Regards, Jay

They are different aren't they. Did you get yours with information, any provenance, expert certificate, etc.

Flying Tiger .. very curious - far less detail, but seems on old vintage poor grade paper!

Here is a pretty one I loaded to Rarity Page.


New South Wales 1866-74 Stamp Duty, 2nd series, superb MUH Plate Proof stamp: Spectacular condition for 140 years old. Fresh, flat MUH original gum, on the slightly blued security paper, with the “NSW” watermark in centre.

I did not receive anything with it. The only information I can give is that it is printed on non watermarked gummed paper, and that it is about the same size as the stamp.

In fact I believe it was buried in a "mystery box" lot of stamps I bought several years ago.

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Regards, Jay

A couple of interesting Jean De Bast proofs for Parcel Post (or Railways) stamps, issued in 1942.

There were two versions of the engraving: one with the top of the signal behind the railway worker being in vertical position (this is how the stamp was issued), and one with the top of the signal being in slanted position.

I guess the slanted position meant something that was deemed incorrect, hence the vertical position for the final stamp. I'm lucky enough to have the proof for both, which I'm showing here:


Slanted sign:









Vertical sign

Vandemonia

The color trials of the large format French art stamps are really splendid in full sheets of 25.

Here is another medieval subject.



Memphre

A page of plate proofs, and the occasional colour trial, by Perkins, Bacon for the First, Second and Third Rajas of Cochin:



If anyone needs scans of single items, do please just ask.

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu