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 Post subject: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 07:42:45 am 
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There are 2 main types of proofs (I am talking the more classical period than the modern day!).

1. Die Proofs - these are pulls of the Die, either on a progressive basis (as the design is being built up) or in the final version. The purpose of these is to keep a record and, more importantly, to check the work.

2. Plate Proofs - these are pulls of the completed printing plate, used to check the plate for imperfections and alignment etc.

I will kick this thread of with a progressive Die Proof. This is, effectively, a master die for the various denominations that were produced for this design (Diadem) for New South Wales in the 1850s. It is actually in the colour of the 5d value, as issued.

The proof is on card.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 07:46:31 am 
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These are Die Proofs of the Queensland Registered stamp issued in 1860. Both these proofs are on large star watermark paper.

First in Green

Image

In the issued colour, yellow

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 07:50:18 am 
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These are plate proofs from the original plates for the 1d George V Head. All are on thin glazed card, without watermark.

In Black

Image

In Violet (used subsequently on change of postal rates)

Image

In red, as per original issue colour.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 08:08:38 am 
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Proofs are very under-priced IMHO, as per my last 'Stamp News' piece -

http://www.glenstephens.com/sndecember10.html

These plate proofs of the central vignette and finished design I have on my Rarity page, are rather inexpensive -

Image


Australian DIE proofs generally run well into 4 figures each.

I am selling each of these raised print Master Die Proof sets here for $5 a set!

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=23884

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 09:56:16 am 
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This proof from Cochin is a bit of a curiosity, in a couple of ways:

Image

The original recess plate was prepared by Perkins, Bacon, and was used heavily to print this value. When Perkins, Bacon folded, the plates were transferred to The Associated Printers, in Madras. They prepared offset-litho plates from the PB engraved plates, and also printed the 6 Pies value extensively.

Now the first of the oddities. This proof was almost certainly prepared in Madras, but it doesn't have the appearance of an offset-litho. It looks much more like a straight pull from the original plate. The ink stands quite proud of the paper.

The next oddity is the overprint. This is Gibbons Type O11. It was only ever used on the Madras offset-litho printing of this 6 Pies stamp, and is a rarity (ÂŁ950 mint/ÂŁ425 used) in its own right.

So we have (presumably) a proof of an overprint on a proof of a stamp.

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:03:59 am 
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Nice Plate Proof of unissued Perkins Bacon Britannia 4d in Black. I think this was for a planned Watermark Large Star 4d issue, but the value was not needed before De La Rue took over the contract.

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:10:10 am 
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Peter,

do you differentiate between Original Die Proofs & Posthumous Die Proofs, some of your State Proofs look like they are Posthumous,

David B.


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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:16:35 am 
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David Benson wrote:
Peter,

do you differentiate between Original Die Proofs & Posthumous Die Proofs, some of your State Proofs look like they are Posthumous,

David B.


David, the NSW is on stiff card and could be posthumous (although absence of value is interesting). The QLD are both on Large Star WMK paper and I don't think they are posthumous?

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:35:06 am 
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Peter,

there are circles in the corners of the Queensland Registered stamps, I seem to recall that they were from a retouched die,

David B.


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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:43:31 am 
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NSW, from RL. page 47 (top of page)

In 1902, 1929 & 1929 reprinted proofs were made by Perkins Bacon for souvenir or study purposes, These are of little philatelic interest, considerable beauty & problematic value.

RL had a way for words,

Queensland,

page 97 1/2 way down the page,

1902 Posthumous Die Proofs of the Registered stamp. showing intact square corners with the curves lines of the final design indicated.

David B.


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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:01:04 am 
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Thanks David, just shows that you learn something new every day.

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:28:50 am 
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Here are some plate proofs in unadopted colours for the Crete 1905 definitive set each with a SPECIMEN perforation. These were printed by Bradbury Wilkinson.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:41:18 am 
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Nigel,

they are not Plate Proofs, they are Colour Trials made from the completed Dies.

The bicoloured of course were printed from two Dies, one for the vignette & one for the frame,

I like Die Proofs especially unfinished & Plate Proofs but I intensely hate Posthumous Proofs and would never include any in my collection,

David B.


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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:48:04 am 
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David Benson wrote:
Nigel,

they are not Plate Proofs, they are Colour Trials made from the completed Dies.

The bicoloured of course were printed from two Dies, one for the vignette & one for the frame,

I like Die Proofs especially unfinished & Plate Proofs but I intensely hate Posthumous Proofs and would never include any in my collection,

David B.


Interesting, I've been using the terminology that Feenstra used in his Crete handbook.

So are you saying that these are not "die proofs" either or do you consider these "colour trials" a form of die proof?

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:52:23 am 
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Following Peter's definition in his original post I can see that these (or at least most of them) could hardly be from a completed plate given the margins.

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:05:14 pm 
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Nigel,

even though they were produced from the Dies I would not consider them Die Proofs but Colour Trials.

By definition Die Proofs are a print from the original engraved Die to prove that the engraving is OK (or not). After the Plate is produced from the Die sometimes they were used for other purposes, such as Colour Trials, Presentation purposes, Illustrations for books, Replica Cards, etc.,

Colour Trials usually are scarce as they were printed in small quantities, in issued & unissued colours and are desirable items to include in a specialised collection.

David B.


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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:41:33 pm 
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David Benson wrote:
Nigel,

even though they were produced from the Dies I would not consider them Die Proofs but Colour Trials.

By definition Die Proofs are a print from the original engraved Die to prove that the engraving is OK (or not). After the Plate is produced from the Die sometimes they were used for other purposes, such as Colour Trials, Presentation purposes, Illustrations for books, Replica Cards, etc.,

Colour Trials usually are scarce as they were printed in small quantities, in issued & unissued colours and are desirable items to include in a specialised collection.

David B.


Thanks David.

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 13:56:15 pm 
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Here are a few proofs of the large Hermes heads

Poorly printed proof of 1 lepton, brown-black on front and back on very thin paper.

Image

Two final proofs of the Paris prints. The left stamp is chocolate-brown on thin slightly brownish paper, the right stamp is reddish-brown on lightly tinted white paper, almost identical to the first accepted stamp

Image

One lepton, black on very thin bright green paper, printed on both sides
Image

20 lepta, color identical to the first 20 lepta stamp, double printed on the front, also printed on the reverse.
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 14:41:57 pm 
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Tonga Die Proof,

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 16:04:23 pm 
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some Niger Coast Proofs,


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Image

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 00:27:40 am 
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Hi

Some proofs of revenues from Argentina.

Buenos Aires 1877 die proof:
Image

Buenos Aires 1877 proof on cardboard on unadopted colour:
Image

CĂÂłdoba Province 1888 proofs on cardboard (last one is a normal stamp):
Image

Hope you like them as much as I do!

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 11:28:02 am 
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Sunken die proof?
On the back of the card is handstamped Superintendent Operations and handwritten underneath "No 5"


Image

These are the four colour separations and final design

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 14:20:20 pm 
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Proof - and despite the size, I believe a die proof - of Hyderabad SG 1

Image

Lovely engraving by, as Gibbons says, 'Mr Rapkin. Plates by Nissen & Parker, London' :D

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 16:40:57 pm 
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Printer's proof on yellowish paper without gum.
Austria (1967) Gothic Mantle Madonna (Gothic wood carving from Frauenstein).
Scott No. 791, Yvert No. 1072.
But I'm a little suspicious given the colour smeared on the proof!
Could it be printer's waste? Opinion?


Image


France (1966) Trial colour proofs.
Baptism of Judas, Bishop of Jerusalem (Stained glass window from Sainte-Chapelle, Paris).
Scott No. 1151, Yvert No. 1492.


Both from my thematic collection on the Middle Ages

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Last edited by vandemonia on Mon Jan 23, 2012 17:34:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 17:11:26 pm 
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Some Perkins, Bacon plate proofs for Indore:

Image

Image

and this is footnoted, and priced, by Gibbons for some reason

Image

Not that I'm complaining ... although I'd like to see them priced a trifle higher, now that I own them :D

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 17:12:02 pm 
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Not sure if this one is a Die Proof but its signed?

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 17:27:25 pm 
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Trial colour proofs
France (1969) Saint-Savin Church frescos.
Scott No. 1238, Yvert No. 1588.


From my thematic collection on the Middle Ages

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 17:38:18 pm 
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My posts seem to be lacking the border on the left side! Is it my computer or can others (not) see it?

Cheers!

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 06:41:27 am 
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John, looks OK to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 02:14:43 am 
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Here are some proofs of the Post Stamp series from Hyderabad brought out in 1871. First up are some plate proofs of the half anna denomination...

Image

...and are representative of plate numbers 4 and 3 respectively of the four plates used. Plate proofs for the other denominations are here.

Image

The colours are not those finally used. Separate proofs, perforated this time, were made when making trials for the colours that were finally used, but they only bothered to used the half anna denomination for these proofs.

Image

During the more than 30 years use of the plates for this issue further proofs were made. Ones on blue laid paper appeared in about 1880. The intensity of the blue varies greatly on these but in this illustration they have been placed underneath a conventional set to show the difference.

Image

Finally, proof sheets were made to be distributed to printers and representatives of Bradbury Wilkinson as samples of the quality of work undertaken by the company. These were usually perforated 'Specimen' as in this example.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 02:35:58 am 
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alexproskurin wrote:
Not sure if this one is a Die Proof but its signed?

Image

From French colonies one sees these -- they're described as, I think I have it right, "Artist-signed Die Proof sunk on card". These were done in pretty limited quantities, 5 or 6 examples maybe?

They're seen in issued colours and also plain black (irrespective of issue colour/colours).

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 03:35:14 am 
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A pretty pair from stock -

Image


South Australia 1855 Perkins Bacon London Printings, 2d imperforate plate proof horizontal pair: From Plate 2: In dull carmine-lake on ungummed unwatermarked paper, with good to massive margins, clean and fresh with razor-sharp impression. Ex the "Harry Lower" collection.


Image


Newfoundland 1897 60¢ Black King Henry VII top value, superb PLATE PROOF Block 4: Pristine. Razor sharp impression. "400 Year Anniversary of Discovery" top value of set, SG 79


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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 05:18:01 am 
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I can't believe I missed that thread!

A terrific treat of course, as I collect proofs as well, and just spent the better part of a week scanning them in Belgium, so I have many to show! :D

Here is the first one, which shows a proof for the Tin Hat series, honoring King Albert I, right after WWI.

The proof was not signed by the engraver, who was someone working for Enschede in Haarlem, Holland at the time.

The signer of the proof was the person who designed the stamp, and would go on to become the most prolific engraver of Belgian stamps: Jean De Bast.

It is a proof of the 10c value, but in the color of the 2 francs value, which is the key value of the set.




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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 23:48:33 pm 
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Some US Die Proofs.

Image

Image

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 00:05:05 am 
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Stallzer

Your last three scanned are Plate Proofs on card (P4) rather than Die Proofs.

There is a possibility that the 1869 90c. Lincoln is a Roosevelt Die Proof (P2) with gray backing paper removed but without being able to examine I cannot say. If on India paper then, of course, it becomes a Plate Proof. (P3)

A tad pedantic, but for informational purposes.

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:24:54 am 
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Another one of King Albert I signed by Jean De Bast.

And this time, he did engrave the stamp:



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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 11:45:51 am 
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Below is the only proof I have in my collection:

Image

It is the portrait of Captain Cook from the Cook Islands 1½ of 1920 (Scott 63), and the 1½d of Aitutaki of 1920 (Scott 30)

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:34:16 am 
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From the same King Albert I set as my previous post, engraved by Jean De Bast:



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Image



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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 18:33:42 pm 
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Bavaria Prince Regent Issue

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 18:36:05 pm 
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Unadopted Issue - Prince Regent Luitpold Issue Bavaria

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 20:24:40 pm 
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This proof is an unfinished state (the fourth state to be exact) of the engraving for the 1925 set that commemorates the 75th anniversary of the first Belgian stamp.

The stamp indicates 1849-1924, and the engraving was done in 1924.

The proof is dated and signed by Georges Montenez:



Image



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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 01:42:25 am 
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This one is from The Belgium Unesco set issued in 1951, engraved and signed by Leon Janssens:

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 09:36:39 am 
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Flying Tiger wrote:
Below is the only proof I have in my collection:

Image

It is the portrait of Captain Cook from the Cook Islands 1½ of 1920 (Scott 63), and the 1½d of Aitutaki of 1920 (Scott 30)


The detail in the vignette seems very rough and vague for a trial/plate proof :?: Normally these are very clear as they are early pulls from the plates so have no wear or damage.

Here's a similar one I bought along with a number of others. From Perkins Bacon plates for the Rarotonga 1920 issue:

Image

And this similar block but imperf with frames:

Image

You can see what I mean about the detail.


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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:13:18 am 
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I do see the difference. My example clearly lacks the detail that yours shows.

Do you have any idea of the proper term for my example?

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:08:43 pm 
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They are different aren't they. Did you get yours with information, any provenance, expert certificate, etc. :?:


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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 12:59:21 pm 
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Flying Tiger .. very curious - far less detail, but seems on old vintage poor grade paper!

Here is a pretty one I loaded to Rarity Page.

Image

New South Wales 1866-74 Stamp Duty, 2nd series, superb MUH Plate Proof stamp: Spectacular condition for 140 years old. Fresh, flat MUH original gum, on the slightly blued security paper, with the “NSW” watermark in centre.


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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 21:03:39 pm 
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Lakatoi 4 wrote:
They are different aren't they. Did you get yours with information, any provenance, expert certificate, etc. :?:



I did not receive anything with it. The only information I can give is that it is printed on non watermarked gummed paper, and that it is about the same size as the stamp.

In fact I believe it was buried in a "mystery box" lot of stamps I bought several years ago.

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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 01:49:16 am 
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A couple of interesting Jean De Bast proofs for Parcel Post (or Railways) stamps, issued in 1942.

There were two versions of the engraving: one with the top of the signal behind the railway worker being in vertical position (this is how the stamp was issued), and one with the top of the signal being in slanted position.

I guess the slanted position meant something that was deemed incorrect, hence the vertical position for the final stamp. I'm lucky enough to have the proof for both, which I'm showing here:


Slanted sign:

Image



Image



Vertical sign


Image



Image


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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 16:10:48 pm 
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vandemonia wrote:
Image


Trial colour proofs
France (1969) Saint-Savin Church frescos.
Scott No. 1238, Yvert No. 1588.


From my thematic collection on the Middle Ages


Vandemonia

The color trials of the large format French art stamps are really splendid in full sheets of 25.

Here is another medieval subject.

Image

Memphre


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 Post subject: Re: Show us your proofs.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 15:49:36 pm 
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A page of plate proofs, and the occasional colour trial, by Perkins, Bacon for the First, Second and Third Rajas of Cochin:

Image

If anyone needs scans of single items, do please just ask.

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