Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

I assume that most have noticed the trend on ebay over the past couple of years for sellers to not leave feedback until after the buyer has done so?

As an old ebayer, I remember the days when the seller left feedback on despatch of the item, because his part of the deal was then complete. The buyer duly left feedback on receipt of the item.

I'm guessing that some sellers were hit with neg feedback (justified or not), and so decided to wait until the buyer feedback was in so they could retaliate if necessary. The practice then spread.

The result is that, to me, the whole feedback system is useless. Buyers are now discouraged from leaving neg feedback (particularly those with a 100% record), because of the likelihood of retaliation. In that case, why bother to leave positive feedback either, if it contributes to meaningless percentages?

There would seem to be an easy way around this (well, "easy" being a relative term which actually means "monumentally difficult" when applied to getting a sensible response out of ebay!) If ebay was to not display feedback for an item until both buyer and seller had submitted, then retaliatiatory negs would be a thing of the past.

Am I being too simplistic here?

_________________
John

Looking for used pre-decimal OS/NSW and G/NSW state perfins, and NWPI KGV overprints.

What I notice is a lot of folks say they will leave feedback only AFTER you have left yours.

Clearly the implied threat is -- be nasty or less than complimentary, and we will be too.

Call me old-fashioned, but I post positive feedback as soon as an item is paid and in the mail. I think the buyer has met his or her obligation at that point. I then have to hope my money-back guarantee will handle any disputes. I haven't had a problem yet, but I'm very low volume and try to provide accurate descriptions and clear scans. If I wouldn't buy it myself, I won't try to sell it to anyone else.

I agree with RickStead ... a good approach

One of the problems with feedback for stamp sellers at least is that it is generally not a good indicator of how accurate a sellers descriptions are or how good or otherwise the items are as many of the buyers leave positive feedback for other reasons and quite often have no idea what they are buying ... my article on pitfalls and hints for buying stamps on eBay is on my website at www.simondunkerley.com for more on this issue ...

RickStead has the right idea, I too always post positive feedback if the buyer has done the right thing and paid in a reasonable time.

I have been selling on Ebay for a couple of years and never needed to give negative feedback - got a neutral once when I accidentally posted a MUH set to someone when my description had said mint hinged :

I remember reading your articles Simon and you make a good point, but I guess Ebay's feedback is set up for a vast array of items, so it won't properly fit all of them. I'd never buy a car on Ebay but I can imagine the feedback "Arrived promptly and well packaged AAA+++"

Yes, there are some things I wouldn't buy on eBay ... in fact a lot of things!

As a buyer, to date I have not had to post a negative, one neutral.

However, on more than one occasion my "ask the seller a question" has been unanswered.

If only successful buyers can leave feedback, how do I report a seller who does not answer?

Yet another hole in the system, Doug.

Ebay only recognises a successful transaction - any unsuccessful transactions (such as bid not being submitted because of an unanswered question) doesn't seem to matter.

_________________
John

Looking for used pre-decimal OS/NSW and G/NSW state perfins, and NWPI KGV overprints.

Never heard that one before.

Doug

If a seller can't be bothered to answer your question,don't bother to bid, as you are the customer and you can take your business elesewhere.

For your info, the ebay feedback system now allows you to rate the transaction using a 5 star system covering 4 subjects, Item as described, Communication,Postage Time...and Postage and Handling charges.

At least with ebay you can rate and give feedback to a seller, which stays in the public domain, which is something you cannot do with any of the purchases you make from well known dealer websites

_________________
very friendly ebay seller and buyer

Positive feedback with a neutral or negative comment, neutral feedback, and obviously negative feedback seem to generate retaliation among many eBay sellers. Professional dealers selling on eBay should know better than to bite the hand that feeds them.

Feedback rating, other than % positive/neutal/negative, is based on the number of different buyers or sellers with whom you interact. My feedback total is low but my overall number of transactions is high. This is another fault with the eBay feedback system.

_________________
Bill Lehr
JOBI Philatelic Services
specializing in US postal stationery
http://jobi.bizhosting.com

My take on who leaves feedback as a Seller AND Buyer is that the Buyer leaves feedback when he is satisfied that the Deal is complete. The Seller, who really has very little to add except say Thank You, then leaves his feedback to close the deal.

I think there are too many uninformed Buyers there, who do not know how to use the eBay system. A Seller is asking for trouble if he leaves Feedback on dispatch of goods. "Keep your Powder Dry" is a remarkably sensible thing to do given how many uninformed or cantankerous people are around.

Retaliatory Feedback is an unpleasant fact of eBay. I also have a problem with Feedback being shown with the item and price being visible to all. I think this is a Serious Security risk, an open invitation to Burglars, and would love to see no item displayed, just the feedback Number and no visible comments.

I have 2 Negs, both from NON PAYING BIDDERS in retaliation, something that destroys forever what should be a great track record in close to 3000 sales

Try Oztion or Bidferret !!

_________________
Stamp Collecting does not have to be Expensive to be Fun ! - . IPDA Member 2012/13
Stamp Mall over 35,000 items in my Online Store !! on 128 bit encrypted SSL Secure Server.

As a regular Ebay over the last few years, I always leave positive feedback for buyers once they pay.

My view is that they have met their obligations so deserve the feedback.

Must admit this can be nerve wracking - especially when you sell to impatient buyers - I had one guy from the USA who emailed me daily after his payment demanding to know where the stamps were - until I mentioned that they were coming from Australia and thepostal service wasn't THAT good It was a nervous wait before he left me positive feedback.

As to unpaying bidders - I wait patiently until the end of the 90 day period before leaving feedback - that way they can't get you back

Peter

Interesting thread, but the key here is that you can only act as you should. When selling I ALWAYS leave feedback as soon as the buyer has paid, if there is a problem later you deal with it, I have no negatives and a feedback of 750+ positive and had one neutral from a gentleman in Scandinavia who did not want to complete a transaction!

Most bidders are nice people and I accept that some idiots leave malicious negative comments, but with difficult buyers i just put them on the 'blocked bidders' list! i wish that this prevented them giving feedback but I stay polite and then they dont know!

In real life there are some awkward sods and the same is true of ebay. In terms of feedback most sensible people can read between the lines anyway and unless there is a distinct common negative theme to feedback then i do not see a problem. The enhanced feedback now running does enable buyers to give greater detail to their feedback.

Peter

I may be wrong but I think you can still leave feedback after 90 days if you know the item number.

I strongly disagree that sellers should leave positive feedback as soon as the buyer has paid. In an ideal world where everyone was reasonable that would be true, but in the real world not having left feedback may be the only thing preventing you from receiving negative feedback from a buyer who is impossible to please. We have all had them.

I have managed to get over 1500 100% positive through this strategy all as a seller. It's sad but sellers need to protect themselves.

If you leave positive first you are wide open to the buyer leaving a negative just because they are having a bad day or similar!

Once I have received feedback as a seller I immediately leave a positive feedback for the buyer and I have never had anyone complain about doing it that way round.

eBay US has announced a new, improved feedback system:



But will the buyers be any braver or more honest with feedback?



Making retribution against the buyer as simple as it already is.

_________________
Bill Lehr
JOBI Philatelic Services
specializing in US postal stationery
http://jobi.bizhosting.com

The new start system is more anonymous. It is difficult to tell which buyer has rated you at which level. It is in addition to the traditional feedback.

_________________
very friendly ebay seller and buyer

It says the item number will be posted next to the feedback. With the item number it is no problem to determine the bidder who left the feedback.

_________________
Bill Lehr
JOBI Philatelic Services
specializing in US postal stationery
http://jobi.bizhosting.com

Sorry, that should have been item title, not item number. Same argument still applies about ease of identifying the source of the feedback.

_________________
Bill Lehr
JOBI Philatelic Services
specializing in US postal stationery
http://jobi.bizhosting.com

Presume this will work the same way in US and Oz as it is working in UK...

The "comments" are the same as they ever were, and directly attributable to the item/buyer.

I understand that the "star" system is shown as an average for that seller, but with no individual star rating attributable to the item.

So yes, I believe it provides a degree of anonymity. I have given low star ratings against postage costs and delivery times on several occasions without retribution.

Yes the new star rating system is anonymous. As a seller I have no way of knowing how an individual buyer rated me, I just see an average score.

_________________
very friendly ebay seller and buyer

I have not been a seller, but frequent purchaser on e-bay and frankly can not see the compulsory natrure of feed-back, in order to remove the items off the feed-back page.

The new star rating appears to have merrit, except it is so time consuming for individual stamp dealing.

The other day I willingly gave feed-back to a seller, but found it took 35 minutes to complete. OK, at my age typing is slow, but 35 individually listed stamps at about $3 each and for one seller was where the time was spent.

Perhaps I have missed a more simple way to deal with feed-back, but then perhaps it should be seller and buyer oriented rather than by individual item sold or purchased ? What ever, why is feed-back so important, we do not get it in every day business and complaints usually have a good result if dealt with promptly and fairly.

Hi, Peter - welcome to the Board!

In UK, there is an option/button within My Ebay to "leave feedback for all transactions" - don't know if you've got this in Oz

It works by listing all items one below the other. You still have to type in each one and click the star ratings, but it's easy enough to type "Great transaction" (or whatever) in the top one, then copy and paste to the others

Moral of this story: Give a lazy man a job and he'll find a quick way to do it

tell me more

_________________
very friendly ebay seller and buyer

For a Seller to withhold feedback until after the buyer has posted his is unethical,immoral, and is a form of BLACKMAIL.Those that withhold must be unsure of their sales and their ability to market fairly, they are afraid of being found out and so fear reprisals,DON"T POST<that way I can control my destiny.I for one don't give a care if someone wants to badmouth me .I have faith in people inasmuch they can read my whole feedback history and decide for themselves what to beleive,you will never satisfy every one no matter how hard you try and wouldn't it be nice to see 100% and know that you posted first without fear of reprisal.Who when he reaches the age of wisdom wants to look back and recognise that he was found wanting.At 72 I think I can say that most of us will , but why should it be of your own making, that is adding insult to injury by yourself on yourself.

Thanks for contributing toc001au,

Please register (it's easy) and keep contributing to this great chatboard.

No dis-respect intended but you clearly haven't been on the wrong end of a blackmail threat when you sell a perfectly good stamp, accurately described, but some wants a part refund...or else the 100% feedback goes. The blackmail is very cleverly done, often by well established ebay members who know their way around the system

_________________
very friendly ebay seller and buyer

ebay-dealer is absolutely right!

I agree ... Unless I have a specific reason not to, I always leave feedback as soon as I note the item is paid for. As a seller I appreciate the feedback of buyers more in knowing the item has arrived safely than in getting a point for the feedback - conversely, when I buy something I leave feedback so the seller knows it has arrived. I still find there is a fair portion that do not leave feedback.

Users often forget that feedback is entirely voluntary.

As a seller it is incredibly important but I am often surprised how important users who only buy think it is. After all, they could have 100 positive and 99 negative and they would still be able to buy as their account would still be a net 1 positive. (not that I have every seen anyone with that)

In many ways the feedback system is fundamentally flawed and a glance through various feedbacks show this. Most leave it for relativaly trivial things and not whether something is actually genuine or not as in most cases they simply do not know (or apparently care). That is one reason why so many dodgy sellers get away with selling fake material.

For example, to leave negative feedback because someone was a bit slow either paying for or sending an item is poor form. Other things are far more important!

like an accurate description

_________________
very friendly ebay seller and buyer

What do you actually get for leaving negative feedback?

Nothing, in my opinion. (revenge I suppose)

In fact, if like me buyers check feedback left as well as received, it may actually work against the giver.

Why have any red anywhere on you record, either given or received? It just makes the giver look accident-prone or difficult, even if the recipient of the feedback truly deserved it.

It is true that the feedback you receive only tells half the story ... that which you give is also important ... and it can make interesting reading too!

Some people's whole lives are in the feedback.

One buyer of stamps from me had also bought 25 pregnancy test kits and a guide to writing a dissertation!

Stampnut Wrote:-

Crikey let's hope for his sake he got a lot of NEGATIVES !

stampnut



That is really a mind blowing combination!

Norm

Brings a whole new dimension to UNMOUNTED MINT

As I trade on eBay mostly as a buyer I don't leave feedback to sellers who offer reciprocal feedback. My personal view is if I have paid on time than leave feedback to say so. Reciprocal feedback equates to blackmail in my books and I just don't deal with that seller again, there are plenty of others who want MY money.

_________________
Dave

Decimal stamps forever.

I understand what you are saying here Dave, but you would be suprised how much blackmail or attempted blackmail takes place from the other side of the fence. I leave feedback in blocks, ie I will go and do 200-300 at one time. I nearly always get someone who claims not to have received their stamps from a few weeks back. A total lie, as in most cases, with geuine missing items, folks can be on your bcak after a few days. As a result of this, I now only leave feedback once a buyer has the item and has left me feedback. It does help sort genuine grievances from those just trying it on. There are crooks operating both as buyers and sellers on ebay.

_________________
very friendly ebay seller and buyer

Tis sad to realise that we can't trust any bugger these days.

_________________
Dave

Decimal stamps forever.