Postage Stamp Chat Board and Stamp Bulletin Board Forum

Mechanical copyright royalty stamps, like any other stamp, range from boring to very attractive. The old record labels are the same. Occasionally one can find interesting stamps on an interesting record label. I thought I'd illustrate a few here.

Catalogue data is from the book Stamps on Music, 2007.



Stamp: J. Albert & Son, type 4a 2 1/2d, mid-1920s. Paying the royalties at 5% on a 4/- record.
Record: Fossey's store was in George St, Sydney. A "paste-over" label on obsolete stock of US Regal and Oriole records. Exceptionally rare label.

Stamp: J. Albert & Son Pty type 6a 1 1/8d revalued to 1 5/8d in manuscript.
Record: John Mystery was a Woolworth's identity. There were several record series for kids, popular music and Jazz (this one). Issued 1949-50.

Stamp: Societe Generale de l'Edition Phonographique & Cinematographique ("Edifo"), unlisted but similar to type 6a. Emile Mercadier also had his own stamp.
Record: Pathe Actuelle (France), circa 1930.

Stamp: Societe Generale de l'Edition Phonographique & Cinematographique ("Edifo"), type 5a, c1912-15
Record: Gramophone Concert Record 12" GC 2-52641, Caruso, c1912.

Stamp: Colombia Phonograph Co type 1 4c, 1910-13. As the US royalty rate was a fixed 2c per composition, this was covering for both sides of the record.
Record: Standard Disc A1261, c1912. Ironically not "standard", as it was one of a several special brands produced by Colombia with oversize spindle holes for special gramophones.

Stamp: AMCO type 3 2/6d mid-late 1950s. Paying broadcasting royalties in Australia.
Record: ARC (Australian Record Co) 16" 33 1/3rpm broadcast disc. Note "Outside Start". Many of these massive discs were actually centre-start and played toward to outer edge. This was because you got the best fidelity there (the most inches of groove passing under the needle per second) and many radio plays had a loud climax towards the end to encourage listeners back next time. True!

Stamp: G. Ricordi & Co (Italy), unrecorded for Argentina, like type E1.
Perfinned "MG" (Max Glucksmann)
Record: Fonotipia, but pressed in Argentina by Max Glucksmann, pre-1914.

Stamp: AMMRE (Anstalt fur Mechanisch-Musikalische Rechte - Institute for mechanical musical rights) type R1, unrecorded in red on green.
Record: Zonophone X-63849, rare Russian recording, c.1912

Amazing stuff Adam.
But I am glad I do not have a leigion of Collectors chasing me for them,
Storage would be difficult,can.t just Pop em in a stockbook.

Ummmmm .. you soak them off Ron.

Not to many Beer Duty stamps are stored on the original barrels.

No,,,,,,, Harry always wants at least One on its original piece.

Yup, most you carefully soak off. But some just look too nice as they are to mess with, like this one.



Stamps: Societe Generale etc, type 5a, c1912-15. Unsure why two stamps were needed. Arturo Buzzi-Peccia composed Lolita, maybe the words were by someone else here.
Record: Early HMV 062005, Caruso again, c. 1912. Single-sided.

Stamp: Allan & Co, Melbourne, type 4 1924-28. Printed in England by Harrisons to be affixed to records exported to Australia. Ones destined for NZ were in green.
Record: Vox Humana VH8, produced by Pathe Freres in London for the Perpetual Trading Association. A scarce disc, this one from 1924.

Stamps: The Gramophone Co (HMV) type S8 for Spain, c.1930. Four names against the composition, so four stamps! You can match the stamps to the names by their handstamped name, or in the case of Enrique Clará, his handwritten signature on the top left stamp.
Record: Odeon 139.643, produced in Spain, c.1930

So when did the issuing of labels finish,,,

I always remember them on all the old 78,s my folks had,,well even some I had,
would you belive I still have an old 78 of Elvis singing "All shook up".used to play it on an old wind up player with a needle that needed to be changed quite often,,
needless to say that record has been WELL played..
but I cannot remember if it has a Label on it,must dig it out and have a look.

The last stamps on record labels that I know of were in Australasia, on second tier record manufacturers, like Spotlight or Viking. I've a few that are in decimal currency. The very last one I've seen was a LEEDS stamp from at least 1968 on a Mastertouch roll of "Love is blue".
Most of the stamps still used in the 1960s actually got stuck to the back of the LP cover. The earliest records of Kiri Te Kanawa, and John Hore, from c. 1965 almost always have an Alberts stamp on the back (at least in NZ), usually the bottom right.

Stamps: AMMRE type 2, 1914-26. This type has a background design representing the record company in question, in this case, The Gramophone Co's famous Nipper. Multiples (even pairs) of any copyright stamp are really scarce. They occur generally in cases like this where the same copyright owner was on both sides of the record, and even then, an individual stamp would normally be applied to both sides.
Record: Zonophone X-5-29101, c. 1914. Zonophone was the 'cheap' brand of The Gramophone Co. It's a German composition, hence the German AMMRE stamps

This one has everything!

Stamp: BREYER (Argentina),unlisted, c.1910. The stamp bears both the facsimile signature of the artiste Lola Membrives in blue, who was famous enough in her time to get her own "picture label", and the composer Nocera Netto in red. So far, the only copy from this issuer known.
Record: International Talking Machine Co 10407, c.1910, Argentina. The ITMC were a German company, better known for the Odeon label, the symbol of which can be seen on each side of the label. Spanish-influenced area copyright stamps often cover the performer's copyright as well as the more frequently seen composer's copyright. Usually they are separate stamps, but in this case one stamp covers both.

Stamp: MCPS (Sydney) type A1, 1926-36 1/2d. The Mechanical Copyright Protection Society was formed in the UK 1924 and opened a branch in Australia shortly thereafter. It is still active today as the main collector of mechanical royalties for the UK.

Record: Regent R1037, 1928, Australia. Pressed by Clifford Industries, only in 1928, using US masters. Clifford pressed many short-run labels, usually on contract for particular department stores. Seldom seen today.

Adam,

What an interesting thread. I have not even seen these before. They must be quite collectable to have their own catalogue.

Mr Boggler is showing his age a little I think.

Glen do you have any beer tax stamps still on the barrel? A full one would be nice.

Any other stampboarders collect these?

Tim

Not enough, sadly. We are a small, but (I like to think), sophisticated bunch.

The catalogue arose, not to satisfy a huge collector market, but just because the field was so wide I needed a catalogue to help me make sense of it.

Australians are lucky here as you have quite a few issuers, who were prolific over quite a few decades. Also your survival rates of 78s is pretty good. I'd bet if you got yourselves down to you local Sally Army, junk second-hand shop or local weekly household auction place, you'd find a pile of 78s and in that pile would be quite a few records with these stamps. Probably not the ones illustrated in this thread, but enough to pique your interest. The UK is much the same, but 78s are scarcer what with the assorted salvage drives for shellac during the wars.

What I still don't understand is the lack of coverage of these stamps by philatelists between their emergence around 1910, and the first tentative articles (queries really) in the early 1980s. They were very widespread, and every middle-class home with a gramophone would have handled them. Stamp collectors are curious by nature and there's always been a bunch interested in revenues so why the silence?

Adam.

is what Glen suggesting akin to soaking 1d Blacks off covers.


anyway how does one actually soak them off,does the circular label come off always leaving the stamp intact or does more care need to be taken with these ,
as opposed to soaking stamps,
Details Please.

Also would the value be more,,, or less,,,, on a record,, or off.

Reproduced below is the text from the catalogue for the section "Collecting Copyright Stamps"

Copyright stamps represent an exciting new branch of Revenue philately. I use the word “exciting” because of the large range of issuers from all parts of the world, the certainty of making new finds, the wide variety of interesting designs and the scope for philatelic specialisation in printings, papers, perforations and varieties, especially in some of the major issuers.

I have also used the term Revenue rather than Cinderella as these items were clearly issued “under the origination authority of a state … authority” per the F.I.P. Special Regulations for the Evaluation of Revenue Exhibits.

The stamps are still readily available on their original source, be that 78rpm records, piano rolls, and the sleeves and labels of early LP and 45rpm records. Other sources with less frequent chance of ‘finds’ include sheet music, cylinder boxes and the books of R.L. Stevenson.

As this is a new branch of Revenue collecting, there is still much that is unknown or uncertain, particularly as pertaining to the date of use of many items. Until printing and usage records are uncovered from the many issuers and their printers, the only means to determine this remains the dating of the item on which the stamp was affixed. While impractical to retain a complete collection ‘on piece’, once the stamp is removed the critical link is gone.

I recommend using a notebook to record, by number, key details of the item on which the stamp appears and writing the corresponding entry number lightly in pencil on the back of the stamp. Key items would be record issuer, serial number and matrix, e.g. HMV B2340 OE013246. The artist, track and composer are also useful, particularly where there is an overprint. Taking a digital photo or scan of each item prior to removal would be ideal, but it is not always practical.

Ideally, the stamp should be retained on the item to which it belongs. As the stamps are not tied, subsequently proving this juxtaposition is near impossible.

In general though, the stamps will be soaked from the 78s or rolls on which they reside. This certainly makes sense for 78s, which are bulky and hard to display in any volume (although the occasional item in an exhibit will be attractive). Piano rolls cannot be displayed in a normal philatelic exhibition frame, yet frequently they have attractive multiples or mixed frankings - medleys were much commoner on rolls than on early records.
Cutting off the last 8” or so of the tongue is a happy compromise, and a new paper tongue can be applied to the ‘vandalised’ roll if it is worth retaining for its musical value. 12” LP sleeves are problematic, but 10” and 45rpm sleeves will fit in an exhibition frame.

There is little to be gained by retaining common stamps on entire or piece. However, very rare or unique items should be if at all possible, until catalogued at least. All items suspected of being a new find, or a good example of a rare item should be Xeroxed or scanned or photographed for posterity and to assist future researchers. A rare stamp on its visibly correct item, especially if exhibitable, will obviously attract a premium.

Removal of the stamps can be done by cutting small square of blotting paper, soaking in a bowl of luke-warm water with 1-2 drops of detergent mixed in, and placing over the stamp. After 5-10 minutes most stamps will slide off. Some record labels do not have water-fast inks and this will cause a stain of varying degrees to the back, and sometimes edges of the stamp. This can be minimised by the alternative method of soaking the complete record in a bath of very lukewarm water. Some other records should never be immersed in water, if the record is to be preserved, especially Edison Diamond Discs (the 1/4” thick ones), acetates (often with an aluminium core) and any that appear to be made of laminated card, such as Durium and some Duophones.

Some record labels use a gold ink that appears to bond very tightly with the glue used on most stamps, making it nearly impossible to remove without either thinning the stamp, or damaging the record label itself. ACO records are particularly bad in this regard.

Finally, the striking early issues of the Société Générale, especially when applied to Pathé records circa 1910-18, utilised a glue that defies attempts to soften it. The record label will either need to be sacrificed, and will always leave an unsightly adherence to the back of the stamp, or the stamp will start to disintegrate before it lifts. As these early Pathé records are often quite expensive and desirable in their own right, I tend to leave them as found.

There is always the possibility that collecting the stamps will also lead on to collecting the old records. As with stamp collecting, many organisations exist to assist those afflicted, so don’t let this possibility deter you!

Adam

It depends.

Record collectors will want a valuable record (like the Lola Membrives above) whether it has a stamp on it or not. It affects the value not one whit. Indeed some record collectors find the stamps a nuisance as they cover some of the record label, and so they religiously soak them off. A friend and fellow collector of these in the UK has found just such a record collector and so has acquired a nice accumulation of rare early European copyright stamps.

OTOH, if you have to buy the record to get the stamp, you'll end up paying what the record is worth. This means you can get rare stamps for very little if they are on a common record, or if you are lucky and the seller is not aware they have a rare record on their hands. Only twice in many years have I encountered a record seller (both second-hand shop owners) who added a premium to their usual selling price for 78s if it bore a stamp. In reality this only meant $2 instead of $1, but still... However, the really nice stamps, like those on the Caruso above, are on collector's records and to get the stamp I had to pay record collector prices for the 78. I suppose I could soak off the stamp and resell the record if I was desperate. But since I've got the 78rpm turntable I enjoy both collecting worlds now.

If you are starting out, I'd keep everything intact for a while until you get the feel for what is a commoner stamp (which you can soak off) and what is not (especially if not catalogued). As the article in the earlier post says - once soaked, the link is gone and being able to date the stamp, or make sense of overprints or signatures needs the underlying record data.
Also, you may find yourself with a particularly obscure record label with a stamp on it (like the Fosseys or Regent above) - these I'd leave intact. Luckily in both cases, the stamp is common so I've found plenty of others on common records to soak off. And you can always buy the catalogue which will at least tell you the common items straight away.

Adam.

Thank You for that wealth of Information.
I shall now be keeping my eyes open,,I never really bothered to look before,I knew they were collectable,,(OLD HARRY GOM 2, has some) but I never knew there was so much involved,
I am sure you will pick up a few converts from this Thread,
Thanks Adam.

It's been a few months since I posted any of these, so time for a few more



Stamp: Metropole, type 1 1928-31. "A Striking Record" - very bad pun.
Record: Piccadilly 197 1929. Produced in England as a label of the Metropole Gramophone Co. Metropole also had their own record label with the same design as the stamp - still looking for one of those with this stamp on it.

Stamp: Boosey & Co (Australia), type A2 1924-37.
Record: Panachord P12045, 1931. Pressed in Australia by Brunswick.

The Cull's seal is an advertising sticker for a New Zealand record shop.
Refer http://www.78rpm.net.nz/shoplabels/NZ_A-C/NZ_A-C.htm for a lot more similar items.

And on the other side



Stamp: Palings (Australia), type 1c c1929, typewritten overprint "XXX".

A closeup of the stamp

Pressing runs of less than 100 were exempt from mechanical royalties.
Private recordings (lacquers) like this one were often 1-offs.



Stamp: Mecolico type 1b "PRIVATE RECORDING" 1940s-1950s.
Record: Bristol & West lacquer, England, 1955.

Records like this should never be soaked as the lacquer can come off. Besides it is best kept intact as a "proving piece"

Finally today, the earliest "on piece" item I have (or have seen).



Stamp: Societe Generale type 1, 1908. The large circular design was originally for the base of cylinder boxes. Smaller square perforated stamps followed very shortly after, I suppose because these ones covered too much of the record label.
Record: Fonotipia 39458, Italy, 1908. Fonotipias are very sought after records by those keen on the classical vocalists.

There's another the same on the other side.