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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 18:23:32 pm 
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Uglies for beginners.



Some interesting fiscal documents, some tales, some letters, some postal stationery etc.. anything to bring out the hidden beauty in the material from the Princely States of India during British times.

I invite ikanek, opkedia, tonymacg, maptrekker and all others also join in this effort to project the simplified version which the new members of the community can find both informative as well as educative.


The feudatory states were constantly feuding among themselves or fighting the British.

A recent example depicts the scene on the battlefield:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 18:30:36 pm 
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A promissory note from Bundi

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The lovely Green Stamp signed across by the promissor is of "One Anna" denomination. The King who was also a Major is shown in military uniform.

A very fine example of Fiscal use of a postage stamp.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 18:34:19 pm 
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An acquittance Roll from Mewar.

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From the vaccination department. Money was paid to the employees who had to sign across the stamp as a token of reciept.

The narration on the document is in English and is self - explanatory.

The One Anna stamp depicts the Rana.

Another example of fiscal usage.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 18:37:35 pm 
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Jhalawar :

This employee was recently transferred to a remote place. He needed the assistance from the State for performing the rituals, ceremonies, dinners etc associated with his daughters wedding.

The document is in English. I can scan the obverse side if required. The other side bears details of orders noted by his superiors and due disposal of his request.

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Last edited by birder on Tue Sep 13, 2011 18:50:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 18:49:13 pm 
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Hyderabad :

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This nice post card bears a black postage stamp clearly showing "postage" and "4 pies" in English.It also depicts Lord Krishna playing the flute and with his feet resting on a giant lotus flower. His favourite cow is looking up. The post card has been printed in a town called Guntur.


The "N S Ry" printed on the card stands for "Nizam State Railway".


The Nizam of Hyderabad was an extremely rich man. He found the famous Jacob Diamond (185 Carats) in one of his father's shoes many years after the latter's death.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 18:53:32 pm 
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A cheque from Jodhpur :

Image

and the reverse side

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The portrait of the king is quite interesting. Reminds me of some film actor(comedy)... :D

The front gives the details of the cheque and the obverse bears the signature of the recipient across the stamp. This is also a token of reciept. "PAID" stamp can also be seen quite clearly.

Another example of fiscal usage.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 18:55:15 pm 
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Kishangarh weds Dungarpur -- Royal Wedding

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 18:56:33 pm 
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Kishangarh cheque :

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The two stamps for half anna each together total the going rate of One Anna. These are dual use stamps- both revenue and postage. However, the instant case is an example of fiscal usage.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 19:00:59 pm 
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Another Promissory Note from Bundi:

Image

If you look carefully you might be able to make out the sacred cows and the Bundi coat of arms on the red stamp which is a "One Anna" postage stamp used fiscally.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 19:04:42 pm 
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Recent sheet to honour the Princely states.

Image

Bamra, Sirmoor, Indore and Cochin.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 19:16:55 pm 
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I shall wait for some responses. In case they are favourable I shall post more images later.

Meanwhile, I invite others to post their interesting images on the subject.

Thanks and regards.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 20:35:51 pm 
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This is an old favourite of mine:

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Receipts for pay to the Barwani State Band in 1915, and showing that the players were relatively well remunerated for that time and place.

And an autograph of Rana Ranjitsingh, the ruler of Barwani, whose portrait appears blearily in the stamps above:

Image

735 Rupees was a considerable sum - eight years' wages for an agricultural labourer

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 23:29:37 pm 
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Crazy Dogloving Nawab of Saurashtra
(who took a trainful of dogs with him when he fled to Pakistan and, some say, left shrieking wives and children behind).

Image




Newspaper Article by "Roshni Johar" in "The Tribune"

Passion royale for pampering pets


The Nawab of Junagadh

THE Indian royalty was known to pamper their dogs, and went to strange limits doing that. While some intensely loved them, others hated them with equal candour. The Maharaja of Junagadh, Nawab Sir Mahabet Khan Rasul Khan, invited Lord Irwin to grace the occasion of marriage of Roshanara with Bobby. But the Viceroy refused. Understandably so. After all, Roshanara was the Maharaja's favourite pet dog, while Bobby, a royal golden retriever, belonged to the Nawab of Mangrol, and Lord Irwin was in no mood to indulge the eccentric Maharaja in this unprecedented and frivolous pastime. Films and photographs were taken of this widely world-reported unique three-day event, where no less than `A3 22,000 were spent.

A number of ruling royals and dignitaries attended the marriage. Shampooed, perfumed, bejewelled and decked in brocade, Roshanara was carried in a silver palanquin to the Durbar Hall. Earlier 250 dogs attired in brocade, a military band and a guard of honour had received the groom Bobby, bedecked in gold bracelets and necklace, at the railway station. This had been followed by a grand wedding feast.




After this, dog weddings were much in vogue among rulers in North India. Maharaja Ranbir Singh of Jind and Maharaja Bhupinder Singh of Patiala celebrated the weddings of their dogs in a pompous manner.

The Maharaja of Junagadh owned 800 dogs, each with its own room, a telephone and a servant. A white-tiled hospital with a British vet attended to their ailments. When a dog died, Chopin's funeral march was played and a state mourning was declared.

"To annoy the Raj whose airs and graces he resented," the Maharaja of Junagadh had his liveried staff dress his dogs in formal evening suits, mount them on rickshaws and drive them on British summer capital Shimla's fashionable Mall. "The women were infuriated, often feeling a dog's breath on their pale powdered faces as the rickshaws jostled for space on the way to Cecil Hotel for a dance. The Maharaja had a stormy meeting with the Viceroy and promised to keep his dogs locked away. He had to agree but waited until there was a ball at the Viceregal Lodge and ordered his servants to round up every crazed, lunatic pi dog in Simla. He set them loose in the grounds and was rewarded by the sound of horrified memsahibs shrieking like peacocks," writes Ann Morrow in her highly readable Highness.

While the Maharaja of Junagadh adored dogs, the Maharaja of Alwar intensely hated them. He accepted an invitation from Lord Willingdon to stay with him in Viceregal Lodge in Shimla, an invitation very keenly sought by Indian rulers. Through his Military Secretary, the Viceregal Lodge staff was made aware of his dislike and instructions were issued that dogs be kept chained during the Maharaja's visit. At a banquet in the Viceregal Lodge, somehow Lady Willingdon's pet Pekinese got loose and ran to the Vicereine under the dining table and then licked the feet of the Maharaja, who being the principal guest, was seated at the right hand of Lady Willingdon. Infuriated the Maharaja left the banquet without a word of apology, dashed to his suite to take a bath to purify himself. Wearing another dress, he returned to the table. This incident earned him a black mark in the political department's files.

Maharaja Paramjit Singh of Karputhala, who is said to have married a cabaret dancer called Stella Mudge, went into a stupor when he was told to marry a simple Indian girl. It was Stella who woke him up with her endearments, "My doggie darling, mon petit chou, mon bien aime, I love you".

In the Rambagh Palace of Jaipur, servants sporting starched pugrees and golden cummerbunds walked Scot terriors, St. Bernards and Danes. Everything had to be divided during the Partition and, the princes were much relieved when the prestigious Kennel Club went to India.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 00:10:45 am 
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birder wrote:
Crazy Dogloving Nawab of Saurashtra
(who took a trainful of dogs with him when he fled to Pakistan and, some say, left shrieking wives and children behind).

Some might say he made the right choice. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 01:09:57 am 
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The Sacred Cow stamps of Bundi are a favorite of mine. They depict Maharaja Sir Raghubir Singh flanked by two sacred cows. He is famous for protecting the sacred cows from slaughter by invading Mughals who did not hold the cow as sacred.

Fingerprints left during the printing of the stamps can be easily seen.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 01:19:18 am 
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And what looks like a nice extra row of rouletting across the top, too :D

Do you have a copy of Benns' ISC Handbook of the Sacred Cows? Invaluable for any study of these issues.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 01:21:08 am 
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Of the hundreds of Native States of India only a relatively few issued postage stamps. Many more are known to collectors by their revenue stamps and stamped paper.

Stamps of the Native States can be found used as postage stamps and as revenue stamps.

Here is a Kishangarh stamp inscribed "postage and revenue" precancelled with an oval "Stamp Office Kishangarh" cancellation.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 01:23:58 am 
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maptrekker wrote:
The Sacred Cow stamps of Bundi are a favorite of mine. They depict Maharaja Sir Raghubir Singh flanked by two sacred cows. He is famous for protecting the sacred cows from slaughter by invading Mughals who did not hold the cow as sacred.

Fingerprints left during the printing of the stamps can be easily seen.

Image



..and that is one nice stamp..maptrekker.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 01:37:34 am 
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Do you have a copy of Benns' ISC Handbook of the Sacred Cows? Invaluable for any study of these issues.

I do. One of the many benefits of joining the India Study Circle.

http://www.indiastudycircle.org/


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 01:54:35 am 
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I need to resurrect this item which was my first posting on StampBoards after the introductions. This was my entry to the dark side.

An item from 1947 commemorating the Silver Jubilee. Depicted is Maharajadhiraj Sir Sawai Man Singh II Bahadur (1911-1970) of Jaipur.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 02:15:07 am 
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maptrekker wrote:
I need to resurrect this item which was my first posting on StampBoards after the introductions. This was my entry to the dark side.

An item from 1947 commemorating the Silver Jubilee. Depicted is Maharajadhiraj Sir Sawai Man Singh II Bahadur (1911-1970) of Jaipur.

Image


And the circular hand stamp reads "Office of Deputy Commissioner, Jhunjhunu". The inscription in the centre is "Price 8 Annas".

The price of 8 Annas is also denoted by " l l )" near the bottom right of the flag , each vertical bar denoting four annas.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 13:51:27 pm 
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Letter from the princely state of Cochin.

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And the other side with the cancellations

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 13:52:33 pm 
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And some nice blocks from Cochin

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 13:57:19 pm 
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Shikar (hunting) story gone all wrong :

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The Maharaja or his friends, both Indian and western would go for Shikar (the Hunt) accompanied by a retinue of local folk.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 14:07:32 pm 
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Souvenir Card bearing first day cancel. The ruler of Indore

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His Highness Maharajadhiraj Raj Rajeshwar Sawai Shree Sir Yeshwant Rao Holkar Bahadur


which translates into

His Highness the Lord Paramount, King of Kings, King of Kings, one-quarter-better-than-anyone-else, beautiful Sir Yeshwant, King Holkar, Brave Warrior.

Read some VERY INTERESTING tales in TIME magazine, 1939 :

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 90,00.html

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 14:14:22 pm 
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Nice Postcard from Hyderabad..the land of the Nizam ,the extremely rich ruler who kept a 184 carat diamond "the Jacob diamond" inside one of his shoes. It was discovered there many years afer his death by his son, the next Nizam.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 17:43:17 pm 
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These stamps of Bhor

Image

(SG 3)

are inscribed 'POSTAGE', but probably never actually actually served that purpose. They were issued in 1901, but according to some reports, the Bhor State Post Office was closed several years earlier. Ikanek might be able to say whether they were used as revenues, but they can be found with rather charming 'vanity' cancellations

Image

Image

leaving the ruler's head undefiled :D

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 20:20:42 pm 
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birder wrote:
His Highness the Lord Paramount, King of Kings, King of Kings, one-quarter-better-than-anyone-else, beautiful Sir Yeshwant, King Holkar, Brave Warrior.

Well he can be given some credit for modesty, he settled for only 1/4. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 04:18:02 am 
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tonymacg wrote:
These stamps of Bhor

Image

(SG 3)

are inscribed 'POSTAGE', but probably never actually actually served that purpose. They were issued in 1901, but according to some reports, the Bhor State Post Office was closed several years earlier. Ikanek might be able to say whether they were used as revenues, but they can be found with rather charming 'vanity' cancellations.

I don´t think that they were used as revenues. For the revenue purpose Bhor issued similar stamp but with changed inscriptions. I have this in mint condition (the only one mint Bhor in my collection). I will post image when time permits.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 08:06:35 am 
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They were issued in 1901, but according to some reports, the Bhor State Post Office was closed several years earlier.
Am I correct in assuming that Bhor covers must be quite hard to find if there is a question of when the State PO closed?


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:49:26 pm 
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Very hard to find. I can recall seeing a couple offered for sale over the years, but it's ages since the last one.

Even postally used are difficult: most of the 'used' on offer are CTO.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 20:38:41 pm 
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Hi, great thread. Didn't even know what an "ugly" was until last week!

Does this qualify as as "ugly"and can you tell me something about it?

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Thanks, Anne

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 01:21:23 am 
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Yes, indeed, this is a 100% Ugly, Anne, even if it was printed by Perkins, Bacon, who printed the Penny Black.

It comes from Indore State in Central India. 'Holkar' was the name of the ruling family; Indore was the capital city of the State. The State was known by both names, but the catalogues generally follow the practice of using the name of the main town.

These stamps were issued in 1904 for Indore State Government use. The SERVICE overprint is short for On Indore Government Service. In 1908, Indore agreed with the British Indian authorities to close its post office to the general public, and only operate it for State government mails, within the State borders. As there was then no need to distinguish SERVICE from ordinary stamps (because there were no ordinary stamps any more), Indore stopped overprinting its stamps.

The next stage of the history of these stamps is a little murky, but it appears that many of the SERVICE overprints were sold to a dealer in Europe, who then released them onto the market.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 06:20:50 am 
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Here is a cover with the stamp inscribed HOLKAR STATE POSTAGE and a nice English-language receiving postmark from the city of Indore. It depicts Maharaja Shivaji Rao Holkar XII.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 13:04:29 pm 
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Thanks Tonymacg, great information. Appreciated

A question though, I noticed earlier on in the thread a stamp without a rulers face on it.

Do these also qualify as "uglies" and why?

If I post a couple of pics of the ones I have could you give some info on these as well?

I print out the info and include it my albums with the stamps so I remember what I have... and it makes good reading as well later on!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 13:31:32 pm 
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Hutch, the term 'the Uglies' was coined by a collector of (British) India something over a century ago, to rubbish the stamps of the Indian States. I suspect the collector had stamps like this 8 Anna of Jind

Image

in mind when he came up with the term. You could argue that they're primitive in design and printing, I suppose, but they aren't all like that. Your Indore/Holkar stamp proves that. This Jaipur stamp from 1904

Image

also proves it. Nothing ugly about that stamp! So, any Indian States stamp, from the very first (Soruth SG 1

Image

of 1864) to the last

Image

(Travancore-Cochin SG 12-13, of 1950) qualify as 'Uglies'.

Anyway, post up your Indian States - Uglies - and someone will be able to tell you about them.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 15:18:43 pm 
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Here are two stamps I'm having trouble placing. I'm thinking they are possibly from
Faridkot or Hyderbad ? about 1931-1948 ?

Image

Image

also, at what time did Uglies become Uglies? I have this one from 1884 that I don't think
would have been called an Ugly.

Image

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 16:49:45 pm 
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Another question if I may. With the first two stamps, is there much of a date difference between them? As one has a lined background and the other is plain, I'm assuming the plain one is later?

Thanks, Anne

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 19:12:49 pm 
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hutch wrote:
Here are two stamps I'm having trouble placing. I'm thinking they are possibly from
Faridkot or Hyderbad ? about 1931-1948 ?

Image

Image

also, at what time did Uglies become Uglies? I have this one from 1884 that I don't think
would have been called an Ugly.

Image


Anne, you're quite right: the first two are from Hyderabad - the 1931 pictorial set. The first is the 4 Pies, SG 41; the second is overprinted in Urdu SARKARI, for official use, making it SG O46.

The 4 Pies stamp was very heavily used, as it was the postcard rate. (In Hyderabad in the 1930s, very few people had phones, so postcards were a cheap and convenient way to communicate.) Hyderabad got through a number of printing plates for this value, and at least some of the later plates show the background worn away, as in your example. The same thing happened to the companion 8 Pies green stamp. Late printings show the background wearing, and then worn, away. These are quite common stamps, and not expensive, because Hyderabad was the largest of the Indian States. It had a population of around 17 million at the time it was absorbed into independent India.

The third is from Patiala. As you can see, in the early days, 'Patiala' was written 'Puttialla', but it remains the same place. This one has an additional SERVICE overprint, which makes it an official use stamp, like your second Hyderabad stamp. Yours is SG O2 of 1884.

Whether Patiala is a proper 'Ugly' or not is a bit of a moot point. Patiala, along with Chamba, Faridkot, Gwalior, Jind and Nabha, signed a Postal Convention with British India. Under the Convention, these States agreed to use British Indian stamps overprinted with the name of the State, and apply British Indian postage rates. In return, their stamps were valid for postage throughout British India, which wasn't generally the case with the non-Convention States. Gibbons lists the Convention States separately, and many hard-line collectors of the Uglies (your humble servant among them) don't regard the Convention States as proper Uglies.

Thoroughly muddying the waters, both Faridkot and Jind issued their own stamps before joining the Convention. These pre-Convention stamps are indisputably true Uglies:

Faridkot before the Convention:

Image


(SG N4 - the 1 Paisa on ordinary white laid paper), and after joining the Convention:

Image


(SG 10 - the 6 Annas of 1887) and

Jind before the Convention:

Image


(SG J11 - the 4 Annas on bluish laid card paper of 1976), and after joining the Convention:

Image


(SG 26 - the 6 Annas of 1891)

(Jind had more trouble than Patiala deciding how to spell its name in English. It tried 'Jhind' and 'Jeend' before settling on plain 'Jind'.)

Do you think these Convention States stamps belong among the Uglies, Anne? After all, each of us can decide where we draw the line on Ugly-dom and Non-Ugly-dom :D

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 19:44:19 pm 
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Thanks Tonymacg for that wonderful information! :D I have the 8 pie green stamp and it is in much the same condition as the second one I posted so it must be earlier as it's not from a very worn plate as far as I know. You will be able to tell me I'm sure!

Image

Do you mind if I pick your brain? I don't have a lot of "Uglies" but for some reason, I actually like them! Are there any books available specifically about the?

Are Uglies considered only State stamps or was the term dreamed up for general Indian stamps?

I'm in two minds as to what actually constitutes an Ugly. I rather tend towards the theory that anything with the Queen or King's head or nice scenery on it is not an Ugly but I'm open to any thoughts. I rather like them. Some like this,

Image

I can't in all honesty call it an Ugly... it's too nice, as the one you posted before. So, is it actually an Ugly and where does it originate from?

Now these two :roll: I'd definitely call semi-ugly and really-ugly....and yet, I like the really ugly one best

Image

Image

I have others I would like to post and get more info on but only if you have the time and inclination to help. Thanks for everything so far. Anne

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 21:54:09 pm 
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Anne, I'm always delighted to fan the flames of interest in the Uglies.

Your Hyderabad stamp looks like an early print to me. But then again, it might be a late print, from a plate brought out of reserve, after the others wore out. This is a subject that - as far as I know - noone has thoroughly researched, so I can't say for certain.

Your nice stamp with the Pelicans is yet another arguable case. It comes from Bahawalpur, which is now part of Pakistan. Gibbons lists all the stamps of Bahawalpur after Pakistan in the catalogue. However, your stamp (it's an SG O4) was issued in 1945, when Bahawalpur was still part of India, and before Pakistan was separated off and became independent. So, your stamp is probably strictly speaking an 'Ugly'.

Of course, your stamp isn't at all ugly. It's a beautiful example of the engraved work done by De La Rue of London. They did a lot of work for the British colonies around this time, and their workmanship was superb. It's hardly surprising that Bahawalpur stamps are so nice: the Nawab (the ruler) was a keen philatelist, and being the ruler, he was able to ensure that he had the best designs and printers for his stamps. The only time he slipped from this high standard was from August to October 1947, when India and Pakistan were separated and became independent, and the Nawab was deciding which to join (Bahawalpur was on the border between India and Pakistan). During that time, he issued Indian stamps overprinted with a star and crescent, and Persian text reading 'The God-given Kingdom of Bahawalpur'. These stamps are all quite uncommon to downright rare. The set of 17 stamps was catalogued at £6500 in the 2011 Gibbons catalogue.

Now, your last two: these are from Cochin State. The 'Anchal' simply means 'Post Office' in the local language. Your two are overprinted On C G S, standing for On C(ochin) G(overnment) S(ervice). During the philatelic lifetime of Cochin, there were six rulers, but the first Raja's head never appeared on stamps. The second of the six is usually referred to as the 'First Raja' and the first of your stamps shows the Second Raja. It's SG O10. It's worth checking the watermark. It should be an upright umbrella, but inverted watermarks are known - and catalogued at £150 each.

The second Cochin stamp is of the Fourth Raja, who ruled only from 1941 to 1943. Nevertheless, stamps of his reign are among the more complex Cochin stamps. Some of them are found with the small umbrella watermark; all are also found with a large watermark that stretched most of the way across the sheet. Your stamp should only have the sheet watermark; if it has the small umbrella, again, you have a big rarity. This stamp exists perf 13x13½ and 11, which are both common, and perf 13, which is scarcer. Depending on the perforation, your stamp is SG O69 (perf 13x13½), SG O69b (perf 11) or SG O69c (perf 13).

Later on, your stamp was also surcharged in two different forms

Image

and

Image

I've always found this portrait of Maharaja Kerala Varma II fascinating, because it must be one of the most unflattering stamp portraits of a ruler ever. Compare this with, say, the images of the Queen on British stamps. This one pulls absolutely no punches. The Machin bust of the Queen is very attractive, and aesthetically pleasing, but it isn't true to life, these days anyway.

So, yes, these are all Uglies by definition - they were issued by the Indian States. But 'ugly'? I don't think so.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 17:29:14 pm 
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Hi Tonymacg, here's the only other three stamps I have from Bahawalpur. Could you tell me what the overprint say on the second stamp? The third one I really like. Isw it from the same designer as the pelican stamp?

Image

Image

Image

Have more questions to ask but we're having some pretty big storms here at the moment. This my 3rd attempt but the power keeps going out! :cry: So, I'll do it in bits and pieces! Anne

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 17:33:25 pm 
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Funny isn't it, I never really liked the first two stamps until I saw it enlarged in the scan.
Most intriguing!

I'll be back! My roof is leaking :cry: Anne

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 17:42:41 pm 
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Although I am not tonymacq, here is an answer: The overprint on second stamp reads as SARKARI meaning Service.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 18:01:16 pm 
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Things got quite interesting here in inner Melbourne, too, Anne. The lightning knocked my computer and modem out.

Anyway, I couldn't find the designer of your pelican stamp, or of the Silver Jubilee or UPU stamps. At a guess, it may have been someone at De La Rue, working from photos supplied by the Nawab.

I can tell you that 500,000 of your Silver Jubilee stamp were printed - and probably 499,000 were sold to the stamp trade. No numbers sold are available for the UPU stamps, but they must have been at least as large.

The overprint on the second stamp reads 'SARKARI' in Urdu, and it means 'Official' - for government use.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 19:05:53 pm 
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Bucket brigade in full swing! Only one new leak!

Question, how safe is it to soak the hinges off these stamps? I'm always worried about soaking older stamps. They would look much nicer without that ugly hinge!

These are the watermarks you mentioned before...sorry nothing exceptional!

Image

Image

and the other, I'm assuming is a full plate (?) so again nothing special!

Image

Image

Point of interest, all my State stamps are from 3 older collections. 2 were given to me as the 'new' owners didn't want them and they heard that I collected stamps and the other world lot I bought pretty cheaply. I got so many amazing stamps. Am slowly sorting them out but am really intrigued by these State stamps

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 19:16:50 pm 
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Thanks Ikanek and Tonymacg for that. I really thought it might have been that but wasn't sure. It's always good to know for sure.

The storm is getting much worse here again so I might leave posting my next stamps til tomorrow!

As I said before, I don't have a lot of State stamps but I'm getting quite intrigued by the history and stories behind them all.

I would like to fill in the spaces I am missing...heaps I'm sure!... if someone could tell me a reputable dealer that can sell some of the ones I'm missing, I would be grateful.

Thanks, Anne

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 00:27:31 am 
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Anne, it looks as if your watermarks are just as they were supposed to be - unfortunately :cry: However, you can at least soak them safely. They shouldn't suffer any harm from the experience.

Recommending safe and reputable dealers is more of a problem. Thereare such dealers out there, but they usually only want to sell the more expensive items. The best source of new material for you is probably still eBay and the like. There are plenty of fakes and generally dodgy items on offer there, so you need to exercise caution. But if you like, you can ask my opinion here on Stampboards, or privately by Stampboards email, on any lots coming up, and I'll promise not to try to overrun you. That is, unless I spot some great rarity hiding in a mixed lot of cheaper stamps - and if I spot it, chances are some other specialist will spot it too, and the price will rocket anyway.

In the meantime, you might like to have a look through this thread http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=13744 for a few suggestions on what to avoid.

The wild weather got pretty wild here, too. My two year-old cat thought she was Super Cat - until this afternoon, when the lightning hit right overhead. She's now discovered what a nice, safe, comforting place behind the couch in my livingroom is. But as soon as the thunder and lightning had stopped, she was out in the rain, taking a keen interest in a pigeon sheltering in a tree just near her cat door. Wasn't until she was thoroughly wet that she gave up, and came back inside. Ah, what it is to be young :D

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 19:15:34 pm 
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Oh Tony, I have just spent the large part of this afternoon reading the 6 pages of that thread about forgeries and reprints!! :? Wow! quite intimidating for a beginner but what a wealth of information!

It hasn't put me off and I think I'd still buy stamps off ebay without knowing what they really are (as long as they aren't too dear) as I think, as has been mentioned on that thread, that the forgeries are just as interesting as the "real" ones.

Besides, as you said, you need to have one or the other to identify which is which. None of the ones I've got are as old as the ones on your thread, but it has made me a bit more wary of the ones I do have! At least so far....so far....you haven't told me I have a fake! :D So, I take heart in that and a bit later,I will post some more to see what you have to say !!

Question though, if Bahawalpur was part of Pakistan, does Pakistan come into the "Uglies" group? I have not seen you mention them at all.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 19:17:49 pm 
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By the way, I soaked quite a few stamps today and they came up really nice.
Now my Uglies are beautiful!!!

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