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Hi,

Just got a mail from a guy making query about two Russian banknotes. This banknotes appear to be issued by NKVD (form of ex Soviet Russia secret police in charge of Gulag camps in Siberia among other things, nasty guys anyway) for use in Gulag camps (Gulag is the name for Soviet Russia labor camps, much a like Nazi lagers). That is as much as I can understand (don't really speak Russian but it is similar enough to my language). Please give me any infos on this Tx!

Don't know much about these myself, but can do some translating if you want.

'Джезказганский ИТ Лагерь' is the name of the Camp, 'ИТ' being an abbreviation for Исправительно-Трудовой.

So, Dzhezkazgan Labor Correction Camp (Dzhezkazgan is a town in what is now Kazakhstan).

The text on the lower part says,

'Valid only for internal transactions.'
'Valid only inside the camp territory.'
'Removal from the camp territory forbidden.'

The blue seal is inscribed 'ФИНЧАСТЬ', short for Financial Department (of the camp).

I have absolutely no idea what value these may have now, if any.

_________________
Collecting stamps is the beginning of philately. Knowing about them is what really matters. Major R. N. Spafford

Tx DCP23, most of this I understood even without proper translation but I'm more interested in background on this And if there is anyone collecting this kind of things, I know that we in ex-YU used to have similar form of prison only money and it is quite sought after!

in Nazi concentration camps was the main objective to destroy a person, with the gain maximum benefit from the use of slave labor. in the gulag for work to pay money! And there was another goal - to build something that was necessary for the country, people! The Nazis murdered millions in the camps of people. In the Gulag killed about 732 000 people. Compare fascism in Germany and the socialist system in the USSR can not be wrong to! In Nazi Germany and the Communists in the Soviet Union had different goals. What do you know about that period in Soviet history, but the lies of the media?

So just to be clear, you are justifying "just" 732.000 dead souls! I lived all my life in Yugoslavia and I can hardly justify things that happened hear in short period after WWII (for which I know first hand, not through media), and I also happen to know someone who survived your Gulag and can tell you that perhaps you should check some things with bit more objectivity. And BTW I assume you are led by your beloved Georgian leaders (Stalin for those who don't know) sentence "Murder of one is a crime, but millions, just statistics". It is presumed that Stalin killed more Jews than Hitler, not sure if this is truth, but it make one wonder! And, yes, those two particular regimes are comparable in large, well after all Hitler and Stalin were comrades at beginning.

Dear pitronix. Stampboards - a club of a postage stamp. I do not want to turn it into a political platform. I will answer you in private correspondence

The obvious question of course is: what would there be to buy in a Gulag camp? The 'normal' citizenry living in the cities had a hard enough time of it--go to a shop, stand in a queue for an endless time, and when you get to the counter, there may still be stock to buy.

I read A Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovitch by Solzhenitsyn when I was in secondary school (for interest...yes, philately can be a mark of not exactly being the prom king ). The detail I remember best is the title character stating that one of your most valued possessions in prison was...your spoon. He kept his tucked into his boot. (Boots by the way were another vital possession, obviously).

Gulag by the way, while being the name for the camps, is more accurately a nickname. Its something of an abbreviation of the full title for the camps.

_________________
Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

Even more accurately , it's an abbreviation of the name of the state department that was running camps and prisons in the old USSR. ГУЛАГ = Главное Управление ЛАГерей. In Russia today the corresponding authority is called ФСИН (FSIN), in the US, for example, it's called the Federal Bureau of Prisons.

_________________
Collecting stamps is the beginning of philately. Knowing about them is what really matters. Major R. N. Spafford

The below is from Wikipedia, so maybe they did have money or by the look of these, a ticket?

...they instituted a number of positive incentives intended to boost productivity. These included monetary bonuses (since the early 1930s) and wage payments (from 1950 onwards).....

https://picasaweb.google.com/114420874380857851517/Stampboards#5656404365439654578 https://picasaweb.google.com/114420874380857851517/Stampboards#5656405235281940978 Add a theme: the estimated slip 5 cents in 1929. Special Purpose Camp OGPU. Unified State Political Administration (OGPU) of People's Commissars of the USSR - Authority for the Protection of State Security had existed in 1923 - 1934. Later renamed the General Directorate of State Security and became part of the People's Commissariat of Internal Affairs (NKVD).

OGPU had several concentration camps, mainly intended for the maintenance of political prisoners. The main reason for the issuance of special currency for the camps - to prevent the possibility of using them outside the camp in case of escape of prisoners. Name of bank notes - Estimated ticket. Booms are well protected against forgery (color printing high quality, watermark) have a release date and two signatures. With the release of used 8 different denominations. The cost of these bills at the Russian Auction ranges from 150 to 320 $

People always work so much more productively when they're actually paid something for their labour, don't they? Espescially considering the relatively frivolous reasons a lot of them found themselves winning a ticket to Club Med Siberia.


Good thinking on the part of the authorities! As might be said for the evil genius villians in Bond films, its a dastardly deed thought-out and done well.

_________________
Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

[Tsitata = "aethelwulf"] [tsitata = "Brummie"] pozitivnyh stimulov prednaznacheny dlya povysheniya proizvoditelʹnosti. K ih chislu otnosyat

I want to talk to the descendants of white emigration!

Kol4ak, I do not understand your last 2 posts, maybe you could try again?

I wish to make contact with descendants of the Russian people who left Russia in 1917 - 1922 year.

A small video about the history of the Gulag coupons (text in Russian) http://static.video.yandex.ru/lite/o-pa ... weh3.2727/

Hi,
From what I understand about banknotes, these are similar to banknotes issued by the British Armed Forces to be used in the army canteen or similar setup. It is a voucher and not a Banknote.

_________________
Ankit Jain
**Happiness is not the station you arrive at but the manner of Traveling**

shona your notes would be better on this thread below where you will see others like yours:-
Share your Military Payment items here
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=17679

Totally agree, we have established the notes are Soviet era, but they could be from the pre 1934 period, when it was quite loosey goosey and they could buy pens, papers, caviar, some wine whatever, and even much later after 1950. Gulags were still open in the 1980s and only closed in 1992. By the 70s, the camps were no where as terrifying as they were during the Stalinist regime. In this later period, a canteen would have sold extra snacks and no doubt toiletries, paper, pens stamps etc.
But the notes do look quite old fashioned and are probably Stalinist or earlier in date.

_________________
I collect Malta, Ireland, Malta, Tristan da Cunha, Malta, various Pacific Islands, Malta, New Zealand, Malta, Australia and Malta.

There is one element on these notes that can point to their chronological origin: the coat of arms of the USSR. The 1936 Soviet Constitution stipulated that the Soviet Union was made up of 11 Republics, hence the presence of 11 ribbons on the coat of arms with the inscription (in the languages of the different Republics) of the slogan: "proletarians of the world, unite".

As far as I can see from the scans, there are 11 ribbons on the coat of arm of the notes: 5 on each side of the central ribbon. This emblem was valid from 1936 to 1946 when a new emblem was introduced following World War II and the entrance into the USSR of additional Republics (Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Moldavia, Karelia).



So the date of issue of these notes must have been in the 1936-1946 period.

During WWII Australia interned civilian "Enemy Aliens" (German, Italian and Japanese) in camps. These camps had their own currency as well, for similar reasons. Escapees could not use the notes (and also metal tokens) outside the camp.

Interestingly, a prominent group of internees were known as the Duneera Boys (after the ship they arrived on). They were (Jewish) escapees from Nazi Germany and found themselves interned here upon their arrival (being mostly of German nationality). The overwhelming majority remained in Australia after the war and many did very well for themselves (and the country).

There was a difference, though. No forced labour or genocide.

BTW, Stalin is credited with having killed more Russians (not just Jews) than the Nazi's did, well over 20 million.

_________________
Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Since many of the participants in this thread are ready to digress, I will put in my small non-banknote contribution:

1. Genocide is defined by Article 2 of the 1948 UN Convention as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

The specific case of the GULAG that we are discussing has no relation to the above definition. It is not comparable, for example, to the systematic extermination of Jews by the Nazis.

2. The numbers quoted by Peter for the victims of Stalin are ludicrous and totally unsubstantiated. The only person parading such numbers has been Robert Conquest, whose credibility, motives and level of scholarship are on very shaky ground. Discussions on such matters need a clear head. On my part, I do not intend to carry them out on an excellent philatelic board, which has offered me so much over the years. But complete silence in the face of platitudes is a crime.

PeterS BTW, Stalin is credited with having killed more Russians (not just Jews) than the Nazi's did, well over 20 million. 20 million? How do you get these figures? 20 million "killed" Stalin + 28 million loss of the Soviet Union in World War II - as it turns out that people in SSSR in general no more! Solzhenitsyn generally agreed to insanity "for the years of Stalin in the Soviet Union killed 100 million people!" Idiot! - While Nobel Prize winnerthe largest collection of statistics on the Russian and Soviet istorii.http://ani-al.livejournal.com/262388.html And do not read the nonsense that gives you your "free and independent" media. - Google- translator to help you.

Declaration of Love USSR

July 16th, 2012 at 2:06 am


I wanted to do this for a long time, but could not draw my feelings into words.
Never mind that can turn ugly, but the fact that it comes from the depths of the soul - honestly and openly.

I was born in a country whose name the USSR - Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. In one of these republics.
When you short a period, and the whole world will open to you for knowledge, his head crammed with everything, just not in politics and the international situation (this phrase has settled in the head with a high school where the lessons of history have a mandatory 10 minutes devoted to the international situation) .
And my head was full of books, swimming, music, ballet, athletics. And crossings. In my childhood we moved so often that I hardly had time to get acquainted with new classmates. As a rule, more than five or six people I did not overpower for a thorough acquaintance. I had hardly had time to make friends with them, as I had to move again and the process started dating again. Well, what policy? What the hell's international position, when I come again, waiting for a new city, new school and new classmates?
The fact that my Motherland is huge and multinational, I absorbed from mother's milk. It just so happens that I get on in three different people - three nationalities - three levels. Well, I - my sister (cousin) - they are all 4. And the other - six.

In eighth grade, when we finally tied itinerant and I started to have a winter vacation, I was sent to the class on the Golden Circle. This was my first independent trip without their parents. In this romantic age of the world appears in a rainbow color. He appeared - my classmates, trips to the packed bus, reserved seat, where we jammed herrings and our boys managed to climb on the third shelf to fit in the compartment as possible. And another winter. Where I was born, the winter we also visited, but not with so much snow, as I then saw in Yaroslavl. I have so much snow in my little life is not seen. I still remember this impression. Then they had a lot of different and all - experience - but it was the first and brightest.
Of all my childhood memories, I remember one solid feeling - protection. Of course, the parents contributed to the fact that my brother and I felt that this family. I'm on the other. I am that our parents have quietly released to play in the yard, were sent by bus and plane to her grandmother in another town, feel free to give money and a note that it is necessary to buy in the store.
The last two classes I complete their education at the school, which was the house in 6 stops on the bus. My parents had never occurred to worry about that to me can happen on the way to school.

This is now the courts are closed the gates and intercom entrances. And then, at that time my country, not close entrances, courtyards were all quiet and the children visited each other for several blocks.

A lot of what went wrong in one of my homeland. Not like now. Now I watch movies in those years and remember those times.
In my value system and the origin is not a word - sorry. Once I replaced it with another - reluctantly. So, I'm bitter. Sad when I look at what happened to my homeland. Sad when I see how people are gradually fenced from each other things and what they are called benefits. Sad when I see the lie in all its forms and in such quantities.
Fortunately, in my system, there is another word - Faith. And it still comes first. I believe in people, citizens and fellow citizens. And even many of them were born in the country under a different name, the genes of their parents born in the Soviet Union, have not gone away. So, my native land - the USSR - is flowing in the veins of the citizens of Russia.

The Chinese have said, and even recorded some of his clever book that does not enter the same river twice. They are right. Twice the USSR did not give birth. But I continue to believe that the Union of Free Republics Fair may reappear on the world map.
Tags:

Homeland,
Russia,
The USSR

http://ani-al.livejournal.com/tag/%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%8F

So many of us think! My beloved motherland - the Soviet Union! Soviet Union will be restored!

March 7 was the 77th anniversary of one of the bloodiest chapters in Detroit labor history: the Ford Hunger March of 1932.

The stock market crashed in October of 1929. By 1930 millions were without work. Nowhere was the pain felt more deeply than in Detroit, where the auto industry’s promise of prosperity had turned into its opposite. When the Trade Union Unity League, the Communist Party, the Young Communist League and the newly formed Unemployed Councils called a coast-to-coast demonstration on March 6, among the millions of participants were 100,000 at a rally in the Motor City. Detroit police broke up the protest, clubbing and arresting scores of participants.http://www.workers.org/2009/us/ford_hunger_march_0402/ But for some reason of the famine and repression in the United States decided to remain silent, and in the USSR, but hunger and prison there was nothing

! And yet - a beautiful emblem of the USSR!

Stalin may have "only" executed less than 1 million, but many more millions died as a consequence of famine. Famine as a policy, not a natural catastrophe.

He has acolytes still, it seems.

_________________
Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Totally agree with you. Famine 1921-1922 year - here, I think no need to explain - there was a civil war throughout the country. Famine in the USSR 30 years - the government is spending reserves to buy food, is to raise funds for famine relief

Fridtjof Nansen (full name of the NOK. Fridtjof Wedel-Jarlsberg Nansen; October 10, 1861 - May 13, 1930) - Norwegian polar explorer, scientist and zoologist, founder of a new science - physical oceanography, politician, humanist, philanthropist, Nobel Peace Prize for 1922 year. ...
At the end of World War I was the representative of Norway to the United States, 1920-1922 League of Nations High Commissioner for Repatriation of prisoners of war from Russia. In 1921, on behalf of the International Red Cross Committee has created a "Help Nansen" to save the starving Volga. He was one of the few public figures of the West, who is loyal to the Bolshevik Russia and the young Soviet Union. In 1922 the League of Nations, was appointed the first ever High Commissioner for Refugees and set up a Nansen passport office that issued thousands of passports to refugees from Russia.http://silvergoat.ucoz.ru/publ/golod_v_ ... v/1-1-0-22

[list=]A poster with photos from the archives of the Nansen Unloading food from the warehouse of the International Union Save the Children. This work was done by volunteer students from Saratov Universieta. From left to Fridtjof Nansen, appointed by the International Committee of the Red Cross Verhovnyi Commissioner for assistance in Russia, behind him, Lawrence Webster, who headed the International Save the Children Alliance and manager of the International Union of meals to rescue children in Saratov.[/list]

This thread has gotten far, far away from the subject. I will leave it now, with one last comment. If you truly believe that 5 million people starved to death in the US in the course of the great depression of the 1930s then I feel truly sorry for you. Unproven and unsubstantiated propaganda like that belongs to another age. There never was and never will be evidence to substantiate such idiotic claims.

The facts of a policy of deliberate starvation of minorities and those considered suspect by Stalin, in the 1930s is well documented and was even published by the Soviet Union, under Khrushchev (who denounced Stalin for the monster he was).

_________________
Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Head of the OGPU GULAG Berman Moses (!)

estimated receipts 50 cents in 1932. The network is a resource of "The Gulag - with a camera in the camps." If anyone has not had enough horrors of Stalinism, welcome. It is only necessary to bear in mind that here for the pictures of victims of Stalinism are given pictures shot by the fascists of the Soviet people, the victims of the Nazi concentration camp is, and even the Armenian children who were evicted by the Turks in deportation camps. The scale of fraud is such that people are genuinely puzzled: "What is needed compilers - if there is undeniable crimes of communism?" Perhaps because of spectacular lies the truth, and the crimes of which we would like to tell the anti-Soviet, simply does not exist?

As of 1939, "premium must be credited to the personal account of the prisoner. Within a month, working the prisoners were given the money in an amount not exceeding the monthly premium fee. also award compensation to prisoners, depending on the behavior of the workplace and in everyday life, can be issued with the permission of the camp offices and personal money in the amount of not more than 100 rubles. month

Estimated receipts (copies) of the sample 1934 Head Office of Northern NKVD camps

"cash bonus compensation paid to prisoners" for all work performed in the labor camps ... ". This time the rules were changed payments," the prisoners to get the earned money in the hands of a total of up to 150 rubles (instead of $ 100, both directions in 1939 and 1947. - approx. author.) at a time. Money in excess of this amount credited to their personal account and issued as money runs out before the given

It would seem a trifle - Salary prisoners. But how many questions there! Why insidious Soviet authorities to pay money to "suicide bombers" in the "extermination camps"? In order to prolong their agony? To make fun of?

But if the prisoners were given hands on the money, so they can spend them somewhere? And, indeed, reveals a story about the existence of the Gulag camps and colonies, "a network of shops, stalls, coffee shops

http://warrax.net/93/01/gulag.html