Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

I am not, at this time, aware of any US bank involvement. There is a question, though, over the Bank of England. I think the scandal has a way to run and the casualties so far (all from Barclay's) will not be the last.

_________________
Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Sorry everyone, my humble apologies, still trying to learn the rules. Will do as you say, however mI do feel that the following "conspiracies" have a direct link to the Euro and Dollar collapse. But why just the Euroand Dollar collapse, the Euro is still almost 50% stronger, against the Pound and the Dollar than it was 5 years ago.
All three curriencies are working to see who can have the most worthless currency, the poor will carry the burden, and the manufacturing and exporting industries will profit.
Mortgage Loan Pools, and the Incredible Canadian Shrinking Gold Reserves show that there is not much gold left. The Fed in USA refuses an audit of Fort Knox gold, because, suprise, surprise, the cupboard may well be found to be bare.
Chinese Banking offers an insite into why the Yuan will soon become a reserve currency.
As for the UK buying $170 billion US bonds. Laughable if it wasn't so serious.
Fanny and Freddie, arguable that they created this mess.
Fiat money and Gold both have relevance to the discussion.
Michael Moore's film "Capitalism" certainly has relevance.
Tungsten, really is troubling.
However if you really feel that these issues have nothing to do with the falling value of currency, I apologise again.
Best wishes, in increasing poverty
john tunstill

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... iants.html

A couple of extracts....

"Some of America's top banks are set to be dragged into a major criminal investigation of a global interest rate-fixing scandal about to engulf some of Wall Street's biggest institutions."

"The agreement came after coordinated investigations lasting years and is just the first in a series of potential cases against other financial firms, including HSBC, Citigroup and JPMorgan Chase."

"A senior manager at Citigroup’s Japanese operation left the firm late last year after his division was temporarily banned from trading linked to Libor and its Tokyo equivalent, Tibor, by the authorities."

As you say, a way to run and Barclays will not be the last.

Ok Jon, jump in with your opinions; the more the merrier.

Many of the points you highlight have already been 'done' to death but if you have new information or a different slant on the issue/s then let us hear/read them.

I would be particularly interested in your views of the situation in Italy. I was there for a few days recently and the place seems to be booming (well, in Rome and Naples anyway). What is the REAL situation there?

Well that was interesting, after Bob Diamond has laid this all on the table....it looks like Government officails were involved too, and this problem is systematic and certainly wider reaching.

I have said it since page 1 of this thread, corrupt Bankers and corrupt Banks in a fraudulent system! I would love to see these apologists make excuses for them now, string 'em all up and clean 'em out!

_________________
Looking for South Korea up to 1884-1951,North Korea 1st issue 1946-1957,China 1898-1912 and P.R.C 1963- 1980,Thailand 1883- 1918, Commonwealth QV Issues.

Now now sukhothai....it is a crime to espouse violence, even when it is justified; let us wait and see how the US/UK/EU twists and turns its way out of this debacle. Don't pin your hopes on the UK parliamentary enquiry- that will be a whitewash

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Has the bottom dropped out of the US dollar??????? Sounds like there is a devaluation of US pride going on.

So Jon, what you are intimating is that Italy is a basketcase.
Post your response here so others can see your opinion

My experience, as a tourist, was that Rome and Naples were crowded with tourists freely spending so there must be an upside.

By the way 21% is below what Polacks pay (23%)

The 'me do not pay tax' comment is similar to Greece

Virtually all currencies are in a race, have been in a race for many decades, to the bottom.

The beneficiaries being the elite, "business"-cronies, top bankers, political serpents and not a few in the civil service*.
(*I speak at least from my country's perspective, where the PM's department alone has 100s of highly paid staff with multi-billion $ annual budgets. What the heck do they do...definitely not to generate revenue for the country...!)

The Australian Dollar has hit an all time high against the EURO this morning, at .8331 to A$1. In the same time it has dropped about half a cent against the USD, to be just over US$1.02 to A$1.

_________________
Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

The Euro was at 1.2167 against the USD at one point today.

The euro's down and the dollar's up and I decided to have post #1111.

Huanga.

Been away on vacation so catching up here.

Time and time again this theme has come up in this thread. True, inflation is real and can be painful, especially when wages do not keep up. A dollar clearly does not go as far as it did decades ago. Returns on CDs and savings accounts usually do not keep up with inflation.

However, people generally spend most of their income and unless you are on a fixed income without an annual cost-of-living increase, inflation does not take a larger and larger bite out of your income.

It is largely known that home price appreciation has kept pace with inflation (in the US) in the longterm and that prices for computer processing power and memory have seen drastic reductions.

In the plot below are prices of several staple commodities over a 30 year period (1981-2010) as a fraction of household income. Gold is only included since many of the posts in this thread have a recommended it as a safe store of value.


The data come from a variety of sites including the US Census and Bureau of Labor Statistics sites. The units of each are arbitrary in order to keep the price series close enough for comparison. For example, I have used the prices for ten bushels of corn, one barrel of oil, the current average monthly use of electricity, and 2.5g of gold (~ the quantity of gold in a standard wedding ring). The prices are then divided by the average monthly household income. The absolute values are not very meaningful but the trends are.

Effectively, each commodity, except gold, costs less than it did thirty years ago. Furthermore, gold appears to be relatively expensive.
While all prices, in nominal dollars, have increased over the time period, income has increased faster, i.e., inflation has debased the currency but not our purchasing power.

David

Europe is back in the news (well, never really left). Spain and Italy are in trouble, with Spain in particular getting into the realms of dangerous territory with their bond pricing.

I also note that one of the ratings agencies has put Germany on a 'watch', the first step to a potential downgrade. Heaven help the rest of the EURO zone if Germany gets into any sort of trouble!

Anyway, the usual reaction has occurred. Commodities and most currencies down, the USD and US Treasuries up. The AUD has fallen more than a full cent in the last 24 hours.

I don't know how long the EURO is going to survive (in it's current form), but I can't help thinking the longer it does, the worse things are going to be when the inevitable occurs.

_________________
Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Peter, I doubt it will survive the year, and frankly the sooner that damm thing goes down the better. The world then might be able to get some sort of order back! Although I suppose when London finishes with its olympic glory, and although the UK is not part of the euro. There may well be a whole new set of financial woes to occupy Europe.

Are we not lucky then to live in our own little patch well away from the turmoil, because no matter what your humanitarian views are, we always have;

The sea oh the sea the wonderful sea,
long may it roll 'tween the world and 'tween me,
Its a sure gaurantee that I'll always be free,
Thank god I'm surrounded by water.

[Adapted from an old Irish song.]

Huanga.

Huanga, you are even luckier in that you have Australia between you and the rest of the world.

That is probably why you spend so little on defence, they have to come through us to get to you!

_________________
Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

OK Peter, I'll do another adaptation, but first I'll have to make a comment on the euro/dollar, otherwise someone is sure to complain that we are off topic!

Dreadful news about the euro. I hope the dollar holds up.

Australia, Australia, and our own Tasman sea,
Long may they stay 'tween the world and 'wteen me,
The're a sure guarantee that New zealand is free,
Thank christ we're surrounded by water.

How's that?

Huanga.

I have to agree, however, that both Australia and New Zealand are lucky to be where we are. We gripe about foreign ownership and an unemployment rate with a 5 in front of it (and a decimal point immediately after it) and how the Australian Cricket Team can't even beat the bloody POMs, but these are really trifling problems compared to what is going on elsewhere.

I think the EURO will struggle on for another year or more, much to the detriment of most of the zone members. The longer the patching up goes, the harder will be the final fall. Unfortunately, those least able to cope with the ensuing chaos will be the most impacted.

_________________
Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Normality is returning - us Poms got stuffed by the South Africans by an innings and 12 runs yesterday.

Does that mean that our money problems are over?

_________________
Modern Fiji overprints : Proper old fashioned philately
A fascinating collecting field

Nope, just means my husband is in a pissy mood.

_________________
'The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.' -H. P. Lovecraft

Hi PeterS and Huanga..welcome to reality

Not sure why you think that? I have been saying for some time that the EURO is doomed.

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

ALL fiat (ie. paper) currencies are doomed.
Sound money, backed by gold or silver, is the key to freedom and our last remaining hope at the point. Period. I know this is coming across as dogmatic, but the financial mess the world is in is because the 99% do not know what real money is. Period.

romanko, the era of the gold standard is long, long gone. The sooner you and a few other romantics around here understand that gold and silver have no future in the monetary functioning of the global economy the better.

_________________
Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Ok Ben, whatever you say.

So, you want an artificially pegged price for both gold and silver do you?

The alternative is rampant inflation and instability. The only reason the gold standard was possible was because of an artificially pegged gold price ($8 to $12 an ounce, from memory) and governments making it illegal to own gold in any form except coins (was certainly the case in Australia till the 1970s).

_________________
Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

At the moment we have an artificially pegged price for a worthless piece of paper which is only being propped up by artificial smiles, artificial 'solutions' and artificial displays of confidence.

Once reality sets in and this artificiality is recognised for what it is...what then?

You just don't get it, do you? You want to replace one artificial construct (which, for all it's faults, works) with another.

You want to 'pretend' that gold is only worth a certain amount and that that value is, effectively, fixed. It doesn't matter what happens to supply and demand, the value will have to be constant.

Not only that, but all the major economies will have to have the same value for gold, thereby pegging their currencies artificially, just long as they have gold anyway.

Those economies with minimal gold reserves will do what? Beg for a dispensation? Change their currency to one backed by sufficient gold?

And, of course, with an artificially low price, it will be totally uneconomic to mine the stuff. All the easy to mine gold has already been mined and the cost of mining the rest will be too prohibitive.

Oh, and one final point. Gold is only valuable because people say it is. You can't eat it and you can't produce economic assets with it (unless you convert it).

The gold standard was viable only whilst economies were, in relative terms, small and didn't need to grow too much. In today's world, the gold standard is as relevant as the former British policy of having a battle fleet that was at least as large as the next 2 battle fleets.

_________________
Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

BTW, you know which country has the largest sovereign gold reserves, by a country mile, don't you?

_________________
Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Still apologising for the present system and the people responisible, and ridiculing everybody else then Peter? You must be the most detached person from reality that I have ever come across ( barring hollow-earth nutjobs).

A fraudulant system run by an elite that should be in prison for the social and systematic fraud and manipulation they have commited, no spin, no conspiricy crap, it's just the facts Peter. Try getting off the BBC/SKY or whoever you get your "news and charts" from, I mean really....after LIBOR and Bloombergs relevation that 80% of trading is automatic algorithmic trading, topped with class action suits in the hundreds against the malpractice that has taken place..do you really thaink anyone sane has any faith left in this twisted, decrepid system? Let alone these false markets? You clearly do.

These idiots have everything to lose by changing the system, thats why they try to tell us that there is no other way. Don't buy that crap! It never means just going back to Gold! It means doing away with derivitives, naked short selling and all those other fraudulant practices that put us here!

Common sense is what we need right now, and this Quantitive easing is akin to throwing petrol on a fire, but if you had read the previous hyperinflation histories then you would know that and you would be distraught over what is coming...stick your head back in the sand where the worlds financial crisis can't get to you.

_________________
Looking for South Korea up to 1884-1951,North Korea 1st issue 1946-1957,China 1898-1912 and P.R.C 1963- 1980,Thailand 1883- 1918, Commonwealth QV Issues.

Sukhothai.
You voted them in and if you did not vote them in, then you voted for the other lot. If you failed to vote then you allowed them in, and if, rather than vote for the governing parties, you voted for a minor party or candidate, then you voted for fantasy. In which case you are as much to blame as they are!

If you and maszki wish a change to this 'fraudulant' system then what are you offering as a replacement? You cannot trade 'common sense' nor can you purchase anything with a study of 'previous hyperinflation history'.

I don't see that PeterS is

I believe he is trying to explain to me, you, and others that the system now in play is the only system we have, and until something better comes along we have to play within that system.

It is your suggestion........here! That we do OK, again I ask the question. What are you suggesting as a replacement?

Huanga.

You want a replacement? How about we let the "free" market decide, instead of paid-off politicians and their bankster bosses trying to central plan our entire lives. Ask yourself this - what would a world look like without politicians, bankers, or beaurocrats?

US $ still doing OK.

Euro will endure as long as those kind German taxpayers continue to subsidize Those to their south who prefer to not work too hard and retire early.

As to changes..try these

1 No computerised stock market trading..all must be humanised
2 Upon purchase 100% PAID UP FRONT
3 7 Day cooling off period..that is, no buy/sell ad infinitum within seconds as computers do at the present
4 Speculators must hold purchases for at least 7 days before selling

Politicians..NO DISPENSATION IN RELATION TO INSIDER TRAINING

Bankers.. total accountability..including the shadow banking system
Complete abandonment of the derivatives market..FFS they are now buying up water derivatives!!!!!!
Abandonment of CDS system.Buy it..live with it..no betting against yourself.

But it won't happen because banksters, lobbyists, and speculators rule the world..read USA...and we are all just cannon-fodder to the new 'yankeeism'- the'yankee empire'.

There would simply be replacements. Unless you are suggesting anarchy, with no central government and no banking system?

Hey, you might get 'lucky' and end up with your own October Revolution! That worked out well, didn't it?

_________________
Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Now!now! PeterS -the October revolution was a success. It was only after bankers, politicians and beaurocrats got involved that things went sour.

Well, we finally agree on something! The more artificial (read risky) derivatives and devices are outlawed in Australia and that is probably the primary reason the Australian banks are the strongest and most profitable on the planet.

A properly regulated financial system, as we have in this country, means a stable and useful banking system, even with a 'fiat' currency.

However, you have to try and get past your anti-Americanism, maszki. If you don't, you will continue to be blind to the overwhelmingly positive aspects. But I am probably wasting my time, aren't I?

_________________
Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

You're kidding me, right???

_________________
Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Probably..I still don't think Hawthorn will win the flag.

The Reserve Bank of Australia left the official cash rate unchanged at their monthly meeting today. The, relative to the rest of the developed world, high interest rate is a double edged sword. It means that there is plenty of room to cut, if required by global events. But, at the same time it is helping to sustain a high Australian Dollar (currently at US$1.0572).

The AAA rating of Australian sovereign debt is attracting money from overseas central banks (especially China and Germany), causing the relatively low available volumes to support an exchange rate that is bad news for manufacturing (such as we have left). Imports are cheaper (being mostly denominated in USD) and exports more expensive.

However, whilst China and India want our raw materials it is hard to see any substantive change.

There is a debate raging here about whether the Reserve Bank should simply sell AUD to governments that want them, bypassing the open market and (at least in theory) containing pressure on the exchange rate.

That, in effect, means creating more AUD and selling them for USD, YEN, EURO or even YUAN. Quantitative Easing to foreigners as a policy. A 'We will buy your "distressed" currencies for AUD, which you can then use to buy Australian Bonds' policy. Not my cup of tea, I must say.

_________________
Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Just as a matter of accuracy PeterS..and I have said this several times before, I am anti-US government and its policies which is totally different to anti-americanism. In this I am not unique as I think I am with the majority on this planet who think the USA (government) created the circumstances, caused, and is doing all it can to NOT solve the current financial mess.

As to the positive aspects,can you identify them so that we common people can indulge ourselves?

So the carry trade with AUD (borrow low rate YEN or EURO, convert to AUD and buy the higher rate Australian bonds) is kept alive.

Peter, have you heard any recent news about Chinese raw material buyers breaking their contracts with Australian producers?

David

David, the spot price for both iron ore and coking coal (and to a lesser extent, thermal coal) has been dropping of late. Chinese buyers (controlled, it must be remembered, by the central government) have a tendency to break contracts more often when the spot price is below the contract prices.

However, while prices are down, volumes don't seem, at this point, to be.

As to the carry trade, it is causing the AUD to be higher than it should be, considering the terms of trade deterioration.

_________________
Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

maszki, I will give you one current example....the most recent rover to land on Mars. There is no immediate (even medium term) advantage to the US in sending it to Mars. It is there purely for scientific research and the expansion of humanity's understanding of the universe in which we live.

Ever since the end of the space race during the cold war, the US has poured vast sums of money into exploring space and improving our knowledge and understanding. They and they alone (for most of the last 30+ years) have been prepared to spend the sums needed to do this pure scientific research. The European Space Agency also contributes and China is now taking an interest (although, their motives are somewhat different), but it has overwhelmingly been NASA that has led the way. NASA is, of course, a civilian organisation funded by the US taxpayer.

_________________
Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

So PeterS what is your point?

Poverty in the USA at record levels. 50 million on food stamps. Unemployment or under-employment at record levels; un-popular wars and intrusion into the affairs of other countries; military bases in 200 plus countries; drone strikes against civilians etc etc etc etc so what is your point? Where is the positive message for us 'common folk'?

Don't you get it yet PeterS?. A Mars landing does not solve 3 million households facing foreclosure. It does not solve gun crime; or banker fraud; or denial of human rights in regard to freedom of speech or freedom of assembly. It is simply a waste of time and effort.

Don't you get it yet? A person without a job; or someone facing foreclosure; or a mother unable to feed her child; or an ill person unable to pay for medical treatment ; these people do not give a f... about a mars landing.

What does your example give to the value of human life?

Meantime the USA sinks further and further into debt because of its STUPID financial priorities. Mars before meals. Wars before welfare.

Get with it PeterS.. human life and dignity are more important than who gets to mars first or who has the biggest bomb or the most sophisticated weaponry- which by the way from my personal experiences in Vietnam is total nonsense. Despite the overwhelming power of the US they LOST ( do you understand LOST?) the war in Vietnam.

You accuse me of being anti-american (untrue, as I am anti US government) but PaterS, you are an apologist for the most hypocritical, violent and unstable menace in the world today.

maszki, there is no point whatsoever in continuing this discussion. You are hysterically anti-US and will never change. It clouds your thinking and your understanding of what is happening in the world today.

It is clear to me that you are fixed in your views. I, on the other hand, prefer to observe all aspects of what is going on. There are things I find objectionable about the US (it's gun culture fort example) but, on the balance of all, I see the US as a force more for good than bad. Nobody gets beaten up or locked up in the US for bad mouthing the President, for example (unlike Russia today, for example).

I am also basically an optimist in outlook. I prefer to see the good, as well as the bad. You seem to be so pessimistic that you would only be happy when the worst aspects of humanity shining through (Syria today, for example).

We are probably both shaped by our life experiences and, perhaps top a certain extent, where we live.

Anyway, this thread was and is about whether the USD and the EURO are going to collapse. One of them certainly will, probably sooner rather than later. The other will continue to be the world's reserve currency for quite a while yet, certainly for longer than we are going to be alive.

Understanding that, accepting that (you don't have to like it) will enable us all to make better decisions, especially about our finances.

_________________
Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Peter you keep telling me that my anti-US (government) stance makes me blind to the 'overwhelmingly positive aspects'

Your actual comment was "However, you have to try and get past your anti-Americanism, maszki. If you don't, you will continue to be blind to the overwhelmingly positive aspects. But I am probably wasting my time, aren't I? "

Ok, to provide you with an opportunity to convince me that your opinion was more realistic than mine, I asked you to identify these 'overwhelmingly positive aspects' and you come up with "maszki, I will give you one current example....the most recent rover to land on Mars. There is no immediate (even medium term) advantage to the US in sending it to Mars. It is there purely for scientific research and the expansion of humanity's understanding of the universe in which we live."

As I was a little perplexed as to how this "overwhelmingly positive" aspect related to whether the euro and/or dollar will crash, I then commented "Don't you get it yet PeterS?. A Mars landing does not solve 3 million households facing foreclosure. It does not solve gun crime; or banker fraud; or denial of human rights in regard to freedom of speech or freedom of assembly. It is simply a waste of time and effort"

"Meantime the USA sinks further and further into debt because of its STUPID financial priorities. Mars before meals. Wars before welfare."

(Actually I was cruder than that. What I added was that " A person without a job; or someone facing foreclosure; or a mother unable to feed her child; or an ill person unable to pay for medical treatment ; these people do not give a f... about a mars landing.")

So in my opinion your Mars response was irrelevant - another failure to address the topic.

So I take it from this latest emotional outburst that you are unable to come up with any overwhelmingly positive aspects relating to the collapse of the euro and/or dollar just as you are still unable to come to grips with the causes and the effects of the deteriorating global financial situation.

So which one of us is blind and which of us can't see?

maszki -

I'm already kicking myself for allowing myself to be drawn into this, but here I go.

I don't know about the world's finances except that it's based on greed. He who has the most control must then be the best at being greedy. How could it be anything else? How many people have you heard say that they have enough (of anything)? Maybe we're all just human.

To butt in and answer your question to Peter, I would say that it's you who is blind. I've read several of your posts though admitably, not all. It's not the anti-Americanism. That's common these days and I think I've heard it all anyway. I actually understand a lot of it and agree with some of it. If you want to hear America bashing, I could bring you to the local coffee shop here. I think we're better at it than anyone.

I feel that you're blind because your too one-dimensional and predictable in your opinions. "It's all America's fault." That's just too easy. In one post you referred to yourself as an idealist. That doesn't work unless you blend it with realism. You would be surprised, I think, How much you and I agree on some things. It's a shame that you only seem to see one side of things though. Of course I don't know you but your posts seem to indicate this.

-Morgan

Morgan, please don't kick yourself. This forum is for an exchange of views and there are many and varied and your views are as appreciated as any other. Yes. I am appalled at some of the policies of the US government and Yes I may only see one side of the issues. So please, articulate for me the opposing view.

I accept many of PeterS's comments however when it comes to crunch time all I get is irrelevant comments relating to Mars.

Everytime I look at an issue, whether Greece and the Euro; Libya and 'humanitarian' issues; Syria and who is the most evil; I see the finger of the US either directly or through proxies (NATO) ; and I see its hypocracy- fight al quada in Afghanistan- arm it and train it in Syria.

I think ( Ok, I HOPE) that I am a reasonable person so please explain to me how the US devastates Iraq; Libya. Afghanistan; the tribal areas of Pakistan; Syria all in the name of freedom and democracy and yet it totally supports the dictatorships of Qatar and Saudi Arabia.

The US and ita proxy is horrified at the 'humanitarian' crisis in Libya (which never happened as it was just a ploy by the CIA sponsored rebels) so in its remote bombing campaign it kills many innocent civilians- but hey its ok, its only collateral damage.

At the very time that the US and its proxies are killing Gaddaffi's grandchildren in a bombing raid, peaceful protesters in the US are being pepper-sprayed- at least 1 in Oakland was killed -but hey its ok--his grand-children are only towelheads and these protesters are only commie activists-right?

Don't you get a feeling that something is not quite right here?

Getting back to the topic which is the possible collapse of the euro and the dollar.
Don't listen to me as I am anti-US (government)

Google up the information. Find out the why and the how. Find out who benefits and then make up your own mind as to what is really going on.

My opinion is quite clear and I am not backward in stating that I place the blame squarely at the feet of the 'out of control' US financial system.

Prove me wrong. Convince me that I am in error. I will listen.

Very simple, it's called Oil, Black Gold. Next thing you know old Jed's a Millionaire...........

_________________
"Life is a tough Teacher, it gives you the test first and the lesson later"
Anonymous