Typical German reprints and forgeries from auction sites

fromdownunder · **Posted:** Sun Feb 20, 2011 14:13:32 pm

Kloster wrote:

Gotta admit, some fokes sure are funny!

This is surposely an FDC with the last issues from the 3. Reich (in use in Berlin for 4 days untill the surrender) - I treat any covers with either of thoese issues as post war creations.

It's being sold on Ebay,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0468857425" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Current price at posting time is â‚¬445.44

2010pinter wrote:

tadelloser Einschreibebrief mit Stempel Berlin C 43 o, 20.04.1945 vom Ersttag. Ich gebe zu diesem FDC den Nachweis mit, dass das Postamt Berlin C 43 o noch am 20.04.19 und am 21.04.1945 gearbeitet hat. Nach meinen Informationen wird derzeit diese Ausgabe nicht mehr geprÃ¼ft. Ich habe aber einen BPP Befund aus dem Jahr 1988 vorliegen ( ein anderer FDC der noch geprÃ¼ft wurde ) mit dem Einschreibezettel Berlin 43 - 705 d und dieser FDC hier in der Auktion hat die Nummer Berlin 43 - 653 d, also ist dieser FDC VOR dem noch geprÃ¼ften FDC ( 52 Einschreiben vorher ) abgestempelt worden.

Der Brief ist adressiert an den OberpostsekretÃ¤r Herbst in Berlin und hat rÃ¼ckseitig auch den Ankunftstempel. Ein Auszug aus einem anderen Attest eines im Jahre 2003 geprÃ¼ften FDC´s:

"Trotz der Kriegsereignisse wurden die Marken an einigen Berliner PostÃ¤mtern ab dem 20.04.1945 verkauft. Das Postamt C 43 war nach den zur VerfÃ¼gung stehenden Unterlagen zu dieser Zeit noch betriebsbereit".

Kloster

I admit to not following this thread closely, and this is why I am contributing very late in the piece. The above post reminded me of an extensive discussion on the eBay dreamers thread (page 2) about this item several years ago. No point in anything but the scan. Being eBay, the links will be long gone.

Norm

Kloster · **Posted:** Mon Mar 14, 2011 18:57:34 pm

From the TRS group

Quote:

The originals are on a yellowish paper and are gummed. The control number is in the wrong location and in the wrong font.

Although the scan is not of very high resolution, the quality of the stamp appears to be poor. The stamp is not centered in the perforations.

http://www.kmphilately.com/index.php?a=2&b=10072364

Kloster

maalgard · **Posted:** Tue Mar 15, 2011 11:13:45 am

As there are no controls on this auction site, I generally treat anything other than Karlmarq's item with a lot of suspicion.
Especially from Philgems. He sells almost only forgeries.

like :

Kloster · **Posted:** Fri Mar 25, 2011 01:06:05 am

Member: lavache2004 has been kind to upload his own booklet of forgeries he's been spotting. - the zip (single file) is nearly 15MB.

Link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AGQYAH4O

Incase the link isn't working I have a backup here: http://www.box.net/shared/static/r0r7xc4x1j.zip

My own folder with forgeries of mainly postwar fakes can be found here: http://www.box.net/shared/zhtu5b3lrm and another one here: http://www.box.net/shared/5rmk4c6u29

Kloster

@maalgard

People with printers and too much spare time has been the source to many sleepless nights for many Germany collectors I'd say - he won't be the last I'm afraide to vandalize innocent stamps.

filatelista · **Posted:** Wed Aug 31, 2011 00:17:35 am

Hi guys,

what about these Disney-like OPs? :lol:

Am I wrong or these kind of OPs dont even exist?

gavin-h · **Posted:** Wed Aug 31, 2011 01:42:48 am

filatelista wrote:

Hi guys,

what about these Disney-like OPs? :lol:

Am I wrong or these kind of OPs dont even exist?

You are absolutely correct!!!

These wouldn't fool a blind man :evil:

filatelista · **Posted:** Wed Aug 31, 2011 03:39:02 am

Thank you gavin-h!

Machaggis52 · **Posted:** Sun Oct 02, 2011 01:46:25 am

erich wrote:

More German "headache stamps"...other than knowing that they were some sort of provisional currency revaluation overprints, I can never figure these out. Scott mentions what they are, that there are a lot of different ones, and doesn't price them. As I recall, Michel prices a "typical" set but there are so many different ones (and lots of fakes, I have heard) that obviously one needs a specialized catalogue of these...never seen one.

Th OPs on those were done with a heavy oil based ink, they almost invariably bleed through, you have a sort of oily area around the OP on the back.

Kloster · **Posted:** Sun Apr 01, 2012 19:10:09 pm

German Area Stamp Reprints and Philatelic Creation

From: http://www.leylander.org/pe/stamps/german.htm

The owner/seller seems to have a Ebay account, but from his site it dosn't seem to that the stamps has been labled as forgeries

The Heydrich sheet is an easy one tho, only 1000 originals were made, numbered 1-1000

The other stamps are surprisingly white for "their age", but still a pain tho, albite the print is of a poor quality.

Kloster

Machaggis52 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 02:36:05 am

Kloster wrote:

What do you people think? found it on the net with a price tag that said $375

I have a scan of that somewhere, lifted from an EBay listing. There are a few on Ebay that have become old friends, I have seen them so often over the years. Thankfully, they don't sell.

Machaggis52 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 02:52:57 am

Kloster wrote:

Well Herr, SS, now that has to be super rare!, mind you it is 70 year since it was made!

Here's a funny fake - cancel is fake, so I'm presuming that the OP is (looks crude aswell...) easy to spot if you know historie and pay attention to details.

Kloster

Not sure if there was ever a Feldpost OP on these, can't recall ever seeing it Michel.

Machaggis52 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 02:55:19 am

Kloster wrote:

gotta love bargins, I could get this for a mere 5 euro if I wanted...

on my list it goes untill proven... with 200 issued stamps what am I surpose to belive?

Kloster

That looks marginally more authentic than usual, normally it is a beautifully crisp laser OP on these.

Machaggis52 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 03:10:16 am

WartHogBulletin wrote:

Hi all,

Here is one that I got back around 1989.

I am about 95% sure that its a fake, but I would love to be proved wrong.

BTW, if you label something as a "FAKE" can you sell it on Ebay?

Of course it don't matter my wife will not let me sell any fakes at all on Ebay.

She thinks and I agree that its bad for business to get known for fakes even when you state they are fake.

JIM

I have an example of the missed OP as well, but on one of the lower value stamps, and it is genuine. Is it possible to see the back of these, or are they 'on piece'?

Machaggis52 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 03:21:17 am

Kloster wrote:

GlenStephens wrote:

Those 2 are scarce stamps even mint though, correct?

MICHEL lists em as:

MH: 10 Euro per stamp
MNH: SA 25 Euro, SS 55 Euro

So, not scarce in my mind - I see plenty of em MNH, MH at trusty stamp dealers offline.

EDIT - Real used covers with thiese stamps are as rare as .... well, you'll need some darn good expertizers to valid it!

However - the stamps used here, is from a homemade blok that you can find all over Ebay.

Kloster

You will not find a reputable BPP proofer who will give you a cert for these as postally used. Schlegel did give certs, but will not do so now.

Machaggis52 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 03:31:20 am

Kloster wrote:

Listing some sheets now and I've updated a post or 2 back.

first some commen everyday sheets seen - but now we need to look before buying em lol

http://www.box.net/shared/static/axueqb9mj3.jpg

A fake IPOSTA

This is surpose to be thoese expensive Nothilfe stamps ...

Even Serbia getting shafted.

And some lovely Postwar issues.

Kloster

I have the Polish Red Cross sheet, the genuine article has an embossed cross cross and inscription above the lower left hand red cross. Funnily enough came across it in my blocks folder when looking at the genuine Hitler sheets.

Machaggis52 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 03:38:11 am

Kloster wrote:

Anyone into states?

no idear if thiese are fake or not ...

Kloster

They look OK to me, but unless you see them in the flesh, you cannot be 100% certain.

Machaggis52 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 04:11:44 am

Kloster wrote:

Perhaps time to bring this topic back to earth

This picture was sent in the Third Reich study group on yahoo - some membrs thought that the 2 blocks of 4 on cover were the famous Operation cornflake stamps, lucky for us, thiese fake coveres and stamps have been discusse on the first page in this topic - but whereas thoese images were from a national aucton site, thiese were from ebay in a large lot, also one other cover/postcard in the picture that spells fantasy crap

Kloster

They weren't being offered by M&M of Hessich Oldendorf were they?

Machaggis52 · **Posted:** Mon Apr 02, 2012 04:18:37 am

gavin-h wrote:

Kloster,

I'd stake my mortgage on every last one of those being absolute rubbish... :shock:

...and probably produced within the last 6 months :idea:

Yep.

Machaggis52 · **Posted:** Fri Jun 15, 2012 08:01:47 am

ozstamps wrote:

How on earth does this common stamp get bids of over $US20??? :?:

Mod - Dead link deleted

Well it is a plate single, but even so, ridiculous. I should get mine listed ASAP.

gavin-h · **Posted:** Fri Jun 15, 2012 22:24:25 pm

Are you sure it's a "plate single"? Many German issues had sequential numbering from 1-10 along the bottom selvage of the sheet. It was to make counting/accounting easier for the PO staff.

The plate numbering tends to be by use of the "HAN" numbers - "Haus Auftrags Nummer", taking the form of "HAN 1234.567" in small print below the 5th and 6th stamps of the bottom row, but that was largely discontinued by this time. :idea:

MrSmith · **Posted:** Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:41:18 am

Kloster wrote:

A warm welcome to all the new people here!

I'm glad to see so many new people starting up or even agin. sure makes this hobby comes alive!

To MrSmith.

Could I please ask for scans of the "burnt material" in this topic
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2410

Helps the others (my self included) to see whats bad! - I've posted several bad items there for you to see aswell.

Thank you

Kloster

Hi Kloster

These are the Wagners, I understand they to be real stamps but with counterfeit/ bad cancels

patg · **Posted:** Thu Jul 05, 2012 13:00:09 pm

What the heck! Went to the link and got this: If that doesn't set off "Danger Will Robinson", I don't know what would. :shock:

Kloster wrote:

Member: lavache2004 has been kind to upload his own booklet of forgeries he's been spotting. - the zip (single file) is nearly 15MB.

Link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AGQYAH4O

Incase the link isn't working I have a backup here: http://www.box.net/shared/static/r0r7xc4x1j.zip

My own folder with forgeries of mainly postwar fakes can be found here: http://www.box.net/shared/zhtu5b3lrm and another one here: http://www.box.net/shared/5rmk4c6u29

Kloster

@maalgard

People with printers and too much spare time has been the source to many sleepless nights for many Germany collectors I'd say - he won't be the last I'm afraide to vandalize innocent stamps.

Kloster · **Posted:** Fri Jul 06, 2012 00:44:01 am

MrSmith - thank you for the pictures, I will try and take a closer look when the kids are sleeping

@patg - the site was a "simple" file hosting site - But I only trust my own hosting site, so use the other link if you want to see his small booklet.

I'll see about getting a admin to delete the mega link.

Kloster

patg · **Posted:** Fri Jul 06, 2012 13:35:39 pm

Thanks for letting me know. Hadn't seen that pop up anywhere before and was a bit of a surprise.

Also, thanks for firing back up the thread and making available all the interesting links and information.

pat

MrSmith · **Posted:** Sat Jul 07, 2012 22:46:26 pm

I am trying to learn more about the Zeppelin stamps as I have been burnt on these expensive fakes in the past.

The perferations look odd and I don't see this watermark waffles that should be in these, is there anything else I should be looking for?

Global Administrator · **Posted:** Sat Jul 07, 2012 23:31:59 pm

MrSmith wrote:

The perferations look odd and I don't see this watermark waffles that should be in these, is there anything else I should be looking for?

Yes the very coarse screen printing is the other thing that sort of gives them away.

Please tell me you did not buy these silly looking fakes as genuine?

Glen

MrSmith · **Posted:** Sat Jul 07, 2012 23:43:28 pm

They were offered to me by a stamp dealer here in Australia but I wavered over them because of, even my limited knowledge they didn't seem right.

Thanks for your help.

traralgon3844 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 07, 2012 23:44:39 pm

Our old friend the forger stamps_fishing has a German Specimen listed at the moment that screams pure fantasy.

German inflation period 8 Taufend Opt on 30 Green then SPECIMEN. That SPECIMEN opt looks to be very recent.

Item Number: 330758975618

Kloster · **Posted:** Sun Jul 08, 2012 06:17:36 am

MrSmith - Did you get a expert to make a comment or anything to ID the cancels as being fake? - the Bremen looks like a steel type, but offcours could have been borrowed from a present postoffice.

Rein - The Tunis stamps showen here was on sale by one seller who had anothing! but fake items, think I got some 50 pictures of what he was trying to sell, from the Uboot stamps with gestapo cancels and what not.

Later auctions by others showing the same Tunis envelope tearing, writting and such only supports the fake items I've showen you here.

A small story, a elderly collector told me that the paper used was a local paper type and very poor and that the actual stamp print was stolen on it's way back to Germany after the Africa event was over, it was said to have been located in Canada and used there to create new copies on bright white paper.

True or not, I don't know.

Kloster

gavin-h · **Posted:** Tue Jul 10, 2012 04:37:52 am

traralgon3844 wrote:

Our old friend the forger stamps_fishing has a German Specimen listed at the moment that screams pure fantasy.

German inflation period 8 Taufend Opt on 30 Green then SPECIMEN. That SPECIMEN opt looks to be very recent.

Item Number: 330758975618

Once again proving himself to be the cretin we all know he is anyway...

...the German word for "Specimen" is NOT "Specimen" :wink:

And that font is waaaaaaaay too modern for Germany, 1922/23 (think GOTHIC scripts) :idea:

Kloster · **Posted:** Thu Nov 08, 2012 09:39:21 am

Some recent items found on the net.

The name of the reciver has been noted as a general trademark of fake items, several letters have been posted in this very topic - here it's the Gelber Hund and what not air postcards.

Thiese are all fake.

Next is 2 nice closeup pictures of thiese 2 fakes, we have some in the topic allready and Gavin kindly posted his real sets for refference, but this cancel feels so wrong, not to mention the paper itself so it screams fake.

The other fakes posted for more refference.

Gorochnow

Wladimir-wolynsk

Luboml

Thank for the attention.

Kloster

Machaggis52 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 16, 2012 23:07:31 pm

Kloster wrote:

Thanks Gavin and sorry for the delay.

Thiese images are lots from a national auction site, the seller got seveal
lots that have been expertized and some that hasn't, clearly stated so and priced accodringly to that

Kloster

A lot of that crap is 'certified' by Richter. The mark is applied diagonally, as it is pre the standard marking convention.

Machaggis52 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 16, 2012 23:41:36 pm

MrSmith wrote:

Kloster wrote:

A warm welcome to all the new people here!

I'm glad to see so many new people starting up or even agin. sure makes this hobby comes alive!

To MrSmith.

Could I please ask for scans of the "burnt material" in this topic
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2410

Helps the others (my self included) to see whats bad! - I've posted several bad items there for you to see aswell.

Thank you

Kloster

Hi Kloster

These are the Wagners, I understand they to be real stamps but with counterfeit/ bad cancels

Why devalue the stamps with fake cancels? The cancels look OK to me. The difference between mint and used on these is about -90% for cancelled.

Machaggis52 · **Posted:** Fri Nov 16, 2012 23:42:57 pm

gavin-h wrote:

Are you sure it's a "plate single"? Many German issues had sequential numbering from 1-10 along the bottom selvage of the sheet. It was to make counting/accounting easier for the PO staff.

The plate numbering tends to be by use of the "HAN" numbers - "Haus Auftrags Nummer", taking the form of "HAN 1234.567" in small print below the 5th and 6th stamps of the bottom row, but that was largely discontinued by this time. :idea:

You are correct, of course. :oops:

I've been looking at too much Commonwealth lately.

patg · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2012 07:29:26 am

(A never ending story)
Every now and then I like to go through this thread to remind myself of the depth and breadth people go to defraud others.

I was reminded of this the other day when I was going through a stockbook I had picked up without looking at too closely. Hard to believe, but I had missed this on the first quick look ( I think the pages had stuck together). On first sight you skip a beat before your brain focuses, but then you know inside something doesn't feel right.

So at least this time, you see on the back it's inscribed "Nachdruck 81" (reprint), and was made as a facsimile and not necessarily to defraud.Need new glasses: (I even missed the 1981 in small print until I scanned it. :shock:

So I guess if you don't have 1100 euros, this may work as a placeholder

Anyway, the rest of the book was very nice.

Best to all,
patg

gavin-h · **Posted:** Mon Dec 17, 2012 20:08:03 pm

Patg,

Definitely NOT produced with the intention of defrauding.

These and similar clearly marked reprints (for example the 1951 Post Horn Definitives) were produced for Exhibitions and the like.

Some were produced in formats which the originals never were (such as miniature sheets of the Post Horns) and some had "Nachdruck" printed on the front in the margins.

It's important for people to be aware of the distinction between these "legitimate" reprints and some of the fraudulent material shown in this thread :idea:


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Typical German reprints and forgeries from auction sites

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