Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

Hi to everybody collectors or just watchers of Laos envelopes.
As you may know, there aren't plenty out there and this is a good reason to share with others.

Will just start with a couple of them:

a 1949 airmail letter from Vientiane to France with Indochina stamps



and an Express letter from Khankueng Post Office (which is the Post Office located inside Pakse Airport - closed most of the times !!)



Mauriziolaos

Nice to see some Laos material on Stampboards, I'm not the only one around here collecting it then. Hope we aren't bidding against each other on eBay.

I've been working on getting my postal history material organized into albums lately, years of purchases accumulated in shoeboxes for a lack of somewhere to display them. Once I get to them I'll scan my Lao material.

My long-term goal in my Laos & Cambodia collections are to find solo uses of every stamp from independence to the 1970s (when what I call 'silly season', that is, ridiculous thematics for collectors, started). Given the fact that every set of commems features stamps of different face values, my theory is that those must correspond to standard postal rates (domestic, Asia region, Europe, rest of world?) just as ie. commem sets from the UK do.

Any idea if there's a reference book/published data on rates out there? For Laos such info could probably be dug out of the archives, if one tried hard enough. For Cambodia that might be harder, depending on whether the post office archives survived the Khmer Rouge period.

_________________
Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

Nice to hear other collectors exists ! Of course we are bidding against each other on eBay ( at least that' a real possibility !).
I would recommend to forget about finding a correspondent rate for each and every single stamp as this is NOT the case MOST of the times.
Most of the times the total amount of a particular set reflects just the price it must sell for, let's say, 1 $ or 2 $, that's why some value are added.
This is even true nowadays ! Some of the latest issues have a 1,000 kip stamp which has absolutely no single use except in block of 8 up !
Postage rates books exists from 1991 but I never see anything from before.
These are HUGE because every single country had its own airmail postal rate for every 5 grams step .... just imagine !

Cheers,
Mauriziolaos

Hi Mauriziolaos & Aethelwulf

You are not the only two stampboarders who collect Laos, there are at least three of us!

Laos is one of my favourite places and Luang Prabang one of the most beautiful Cities I have visited. I was there for the Millennium having spend two days on a tiny cargo boat travelling down the Mekong from Huay Xai, and have been back several times since, though by slightly more comfortable and speedy transport.

Like Aethelwolf my covers are of the accumulation in a shoebox style, but I have found a few interesting Indian Army covers from Vientiane.

Sark

Why don't you share them with us ?
mauriziolaos

Today I show you a couple of APO from Vientiane:

An October 1967 strike of APO 96346 box N on a Vientiane postcard



APO 96352 (Vientiane) in a color picture of 1973



and its postmark in 1973



Mauriziolaos

These are, as far as I know, the only 'meters' ever used in Lao P.D.R..
I got no knowledge of any of them in use during the Kingdom and if anybody as other meters to signal and / or earliest / latest date of use - PLEASE do it !







mauriziolaos

mauriziolaos Hi

As soon as I invest in a scanner able to scan at the right resolution I'll try posting a few covers. Most of my covers are post French Colonial period but I have a few earlier and even a Thai P.S.Card used in Luang Prabang about 1900.

In the meantime keep up the good posting.

Sark

Ooohhh !
That's gooood !
I mean the Postal card genuinely used in Luang Prabang; there is a dealer in Bangkok who sold a few of them (as well as postmarked stamps) on eBay all with the same date, all with the same faults and all as same as the imprint shown in the postmarks catalogue ...................

Mauriziolaos

A Thai PS card used in Luang Prabang, that would be a great item when genuine. Anything Thai used 'elsewhere' (ie. Cambodia, Malaysia) is big money, and even native script postmarks from Thai villages are well-chased-after, given that the large majority of the cancels/covers you see are for BKK.

Selling multiple items all with the same date and looking identical in strike...hmm, do they also try to buy things with US $100 bills that all happen to have the same serial number?

Anyways, not to get sidetracked by 'big brother' (more like 'older cousin') Thailand.

I can't recall seeing Laotian meter stamps. Given the level of the postal system there, I wouldn't be surprised if they're not in use. In a memoir of sorts I read written by a recent uni grad who spent a year in Vientiane early 2000's doing an internship, the writer said there's no home delivery of mail, everyone has a PO box, and when he collected the key to his, he had to blow the cobwebs out of the box the first time he checked on it. Many of the books I've read on Indo-China describe Laos as being a 'sleepy' place compared to 'bustling' Vietnam.

_________________
Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

Hi Aethelwulf,
that is why i do not buy from this Bangkok guy ....... because I do not have 100 $ bills with all the same serial number !
--------------------------------------------
Mail traffic in Laos is LOW that's why ( at least this is the Official justification) postage rates are SO HIGH both inland and foreign.
Most of the people who receives mail has a P.O. Box or uses that of a friend but a HOME DELIVERY exists; the problem is the home address seldom is a problem.
The house where I live changed number and even 'HOM' ( Lao version of 'Soi' therefore a small street) for 3 times while my P.O. Box remained the same !
Roads and streets are NOT clearly indicated and so on ........
Truly, I saw the postman which delivers mail at home and even received some at the office where I work (also received some which was NOT mine !).

This is Lao !
The 'sleepy' part can be confirmed even if sometimes amounts to LAZY !
Mauriziolaos

I've always found some of the addresses people in India had to be interesting. This might not happen anymore what with modernization, but on covers from 'the old days' you can see an address something like: (person's name), 123 Alley, Near the Icehouse, District, City

A large business would become a 'landmark' or reference point to help narrow down where the letter should go, such was the 'organic urban development' of cities...in other words, unplanned growth where whatever was just put up helter-skelter.

Japan has a highly-developed system for pinpointing addresses, however the bloody problem is, no streets have names. Everything is (not sure the exact terms) district number, sub-district number, zone number...so you want to find a certain restaurant, sure just go to "3-6-4 *something Japanese*".

My first (and only, so far) visit to Laos, I ended up mailing some parcels of souvenirs home (I seem to end up having to do that everytime I travel ). It's been too many years to remember the cost of postage, I just recall ending up with some great high-value pictorial defins on the parcel...and also the post office's philatelic counter selling stamps for much higher prices from their face, due to inflation, and bureaucracy at the posting counter of "you can only use the stamps we have in our book, you can't use stamps they have in their book". I probably spent a fair bit on postage, mailing somewhat silly things like empty soda bottles (Pepsi written in Lao, only one place you can get that ).

I spent last night working through my accumulated cover hoard...got through about half of the 'stuff' and came up with only a couple commercial Lao covers. Will scan and post them up tonight.

_________________
Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

There are rumours saying Laos and Cambodia have no home delivery. I have even heard some LOCALS saying this, but certainly there is home delivery in both countries.

BTW, according to UPU statistics, in the last 15 years both Lao domestic and international outgoing mail volume drops like jumping from the top of the Vientiane Arc de Triomphe to the flower beds (not the hard ground yet). I always recommend collectors of Laos to catch modern postal covers, not for $$$ sakes (demand is always small), just that for postal history studies these materials are getting very scarce.

Hello Sisophon,
You find me in total agreement with your comments.
See the photo below: this is the latest Post Office in Lao PDR - Xangkhou located at the southern bus station of Vientiane.
Opened around 2004 has made about 10 inland registered letters in 6 years ... plus, of course those addressed abroad !!!



mauriziolaos

Would be great to have cover 007!

_________________
Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

as you wish ...........

With so little mail being sent from that post office, if you asked them to send something registered, they might not even remember their training about how to do it.

_________________
Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

At first, they recommended to send by EMS (which is just a sticker to add) ...... they REALLY did not know how to accept a Registered letter, but I was helpful ! System works, too. I received them all the next day (Xangkhou - Vientiane Exchange office- Xaysettha).
mauriziolaos

Where it all begun.

This is my first piece of LAOS; actually I do not even know why I bought it at the time .... maybe it was my Karma (Philatelic).

Postmarks other than Vientiane, Luang Prabang, Pakse and Savannakhet are NOT common.

Thakhek 1931 (todays Khammouane, but everybody still calls it the old name)



and a nice Registered of 1924 with a BLUE postmark of Vientiane



mauriziolaos

Living out of Laos there is a very slim possibility to ever find such an envelope
posted from a JAM PRAISANI - a postal agency (or less then).

Usually they have a small supply of stamps and a rectangular postmark to be stamped on the envelopes but not on stamps which will be cancelled at the main Post Office where they depend from.

two examples for you:

Ban Phameuang in Bolikhamxay Province (2003)



Sob Bau in Houaphanh Province (2002)



mauriziolaos

Mauriziolaos keep up the good work.

Fascinating to see the JAM PRAISANI. Modern but seldom seen. I guess the genuine used examples will turn out to be as scarce as the rural service marks of the 1930's.

When did this style of rural mark start to be used, and what format did they take between when the French left and this current style.

I look forward to the next instalment.

Thanks

Sark

Hello Sark,
Looks like there were a few 'rural post offices' leftover in 1975.
According to documents of Lao Post (herewith) we may see there were a few of them in operation during P.D.R. already in 1983 and there are many now, but mail volume is so low and Lao people do not keep 'old' things ......









Sorry - it is in Lao language only !
mauriziolaos

Today, four more examples of 'JAM PRAISANI' for you:


Muang Thong Mixay in Xayabouli Province (2002)




Muang Kenethao in Xayabouli Province (2003)




Nam Puee in Xayabouli Province (2003)




Ban Thong Mani in Bolikhamxay Province (2003)



mauriziolaos

This could be a great sideline activity to an extended holiday roaming the countryside of Laos...drop in on all the village post offices and post letters to yourself (or to your friends/co-workers, so that they won't appear philatelic).

Glen has posted in one or two threads about his visit to Burma (Myanmar) and dropping in on a rural post office where he says the clerk had probably never even had a foreigner as a customer, let alone a philatelist.

I remember reading an article in a stamp newspaper years ago where the writer said they were travelling the backroads of Belize IIRC. They saw a sign on a building that read 'post office'. The woman sitting outside didn't know English however; when he showed her the envelope she understood he wanted to mail a letter. She ducked inside, and came out with a wooden box. Inside it was a canceller and inkpad. The canceller was so caked with dried ink from never being used that the postmark was a smudged blob.

While mailing covers to yourself may make them "philatelic", in the case of sending them from small offices like this, it becomes a matter of creating a postal history record. If you didn't send them, and the few pieces of mail that are sent by locals are not retained, then there might not be any.

For early-ish Hong Kong issues, a postmark from a small/remote post office can boost a stamp in value from negligible to $200. Among collectors who have all the basic issues, branch post offices are a relatively 'hot' (desired) area or specialty.

_________________
Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

Sa bai dee

All my covers from Laos are to me in Australia. Having problems with photobucket, so this is the only one that is working at present.

Appears to have a barcoded registration label but no other markings - and nothing applied to it in Australia as per usual international registered items. Vientiane postmarks.


Sok dee

A couple more - photobucket isn't let me edit the scans so here is what I've managed to get on it...

Received a packet today from an eBay seller in the USA, from whom I won several lots. Two batches of Cambodia commercial covers, and one of Laos. This doubles my collection of Laos non-philatelic covers now.

_________________
Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

This cover arrived from Laos today...



It's a registered letter but the Aust Post international regsitered advice label isn't applied. The cancel is Vientiane GPO. The high value stamp 50,000kip actually looks to be an ATM/Frama label (or similar).

Hi Everybody.
Just back from upcountry ...... where I went inquiring about the 'Jam Praisani'.
Still in operation; few upgraded to post office others closed down as population moved from that particular location.
I managed to obtain a Registered letter from the Jam Praisani of Ban Namkeung in Bokeo province.
The registered service is NOT available at the postal agency but you can ask the worker to do it for you when it reaches the main post office.



The postmark at upper left reads:
from .................................
Jam Praisani Ban Namkeung province Bokeo
Lao PDR

It took 6 days to reach Xaysettha

Cheers,
Mauriziolaos

The 50,000 kip is a Self-adhesive stamp; issued on March 15, 2010 in 300,000 pieces (in sheetlets of 10) shows the Ho Phra Keo temple in Vientiane.

Some catalogues used to say that those kind of stamps are PARCEL stamps but this is NOT correct. It is true that, because of their high face value, it is easier to find them used on parcel but their use was never restricted to parcels.
Mauriziolaos

OK Just opened a photobucket account and purchased a scanner, so here goes.

The first cover here is a very common FDC but I hope to be driving over this bridge in Jan 2012

I usually only collect older material but as Laos covers are relatively thin on the ground I collect all periods.



I liked this cover because of the very unusual destination and the fact that it still had its original contents.

This is one of the Indian FPO No. 744 covers I mentioned. Front with registration label cancelled by the boxed FPO 744 cachet.

The reverse of the cover is almost as busy

From 1961 a couple of covers sent by a collector to fictitious addresses so they would be "Returned to Sender"

This cover has a plain back but the next to Paksong also picked up some backstamps.

My favourite Laos item and my oldest is this Thai postal stationery card used in Luang Prabang 1897. It has been through the post but is only a philatelic usage with no message.

Indian FPO No.744 fancy shape datestamp for the First Day Cover 2 Oct 1968.




I'll try and post a few more next week.

TTFN

Sark

Sark wrote:
I liked this cover because of the very unusual destination and the fact that it still had its original contents.
----------------------------------------------
Hello Sark,
nice destination indeed and early PDR usage, too !

I also want to show a registered to Tristan da Cunha but from 2006.



Mauriziolaos

-------------------
Hello Sark,
It looks like it was a very prolific day for Luang Prabang; probably a collector in town!







You may see this range of different Siamese stamps all with the same day postmark but could be a genuine postmark as most stamps have a double postmark which clearly means a block or a sheet of it has been CTO for collectors.
The strange is that all of them have been sold by the same Bangkok' dealer .............
Mauriziolaos

I usually only collect older material but as Laos covers are relatively thin on the ground I collect all periods.



I liked this cover because of the very unusual destination and the fact that it still had its original contents.
------------
Hi Sark,
perhaps you may be interested, the postmark reads:
Sum Kang Rap Song Me Vientiane
literally:
Unit Main Receive Send Mail Vientiane
therefore:
Vientiane Central - Sorting office
Mauriziolaos

Mauriziolaos wrote
"Hello Sark,
It looks like it was a very prolific day for Luang Prabang; probably a collector in town!


You may see this range of different Siamese stamps all with the same day postmark but could be a genuine postmark as most stamps have a double postmark which clearly means a block or a sheet of it has been CTO for collectors.
The strange is that all of them have been sold by the same Bangkok' dealer ............. Mauriziolaos"

Mauriziolaos I dont care if the stamps were all cancelled on one day to keep an early collector happy, they still make a very attractive assembly. I wonder if they were originally sent on a large envelope also to Germany or just cancelled and handed back to the collector in the Post Office.

The good thing is that my postcard helps prove that your stamps are genuine not cancelled by a reproduced cancel or similar.

Sabaidee

Sark

Mauriziolaos Hi

Another one from the collection, uncancelled unfortunately, but an interesting item commemorating the visit of Prince Souvanna and flown with him on his return from London to Vientiane. Do you think the signature on the bottom left hand corner of the envelope is that of the Prince?

As I don't speak French I am not sure what the letter says, but it seems to suggest the Prince may have signed the envelope!
Sark

------------------------------------------------------
Hi Sark,
looks like your french language is good enough .........
I look for the Prince signature over the net and found a few samples
here you can see one of these at http://www.historyforsale.com/productim ... 174934.jpg
Therefore: YES, your cover is signed by HRH Prince Souvanna Phouma.
mauriziolaos

[Mod Hat On]
I edited the post to remove the image. Since Maurizio was replying to an image posted immediately above, its obvious to which cover he is referring. To reduce the total MB in a thread, and assist those who might have a slow download speed, you don't need to 'quote' the image in your reply, if its clear what you are talking about. This idea had those using dial-up in mind; while that's quickly fading nowadays, there are people living in ie. rural communities or more less-developed countries for whom it can make a difference. -- aethelwulf
[Mod Hat Off]

Mauriziolaos Hi ad Thanks

I haven't seen this website before. I notice that their item also has a similar letter sent wit the autograph.

Also I forgot to say thanks for the extra information on the St Helena cover. Sark

I do not collect Laos, but this fantastic thread seems to make me think about it.

In addition to J Desroussaux, any one wrote extensively about Laos? Has his art work been translated to any language?

Mauriziolaos - can you teach us some basic words and numbers, please?

Thank you all!

Nguyen Hi

I am posting this item as its one of the few items in my collection which combines Laos & Vietnam (Hanoi backstamp), but I don't know anything about the routes or rates applying at the time

Diplomatic Mail / Ordinary Air Mail - A pair of covers from the same person in the US Embassy Vientiane to the same address in USA. 1 sent via ordinary Air Mail Vientiane 24 Jan 1956 with 2x $9 & 2K. The 2nd was sent in the diplomatic bag and although it had Laos stamps was posted in WASHINGTON DC JAN 24 1956 (4 is very weakly struck might be a 1) with a poor strike of the "This article originally mailed/ in country indicated by postage". Why the different postage rates for two very similar items? I don't know, but an interesting matched pair never the less.

INDO-CHINE FRANCAISE/ LAOS/ SERVICE DE SANTE/ VIENTIANE/ DE/ MEDECIN/ DE/ L'AMBULANCE
large red cachet on envelope to Paris with VIEN-TIANE/ 29 JUIN 17/ LAOS double ring cds. Stampless.

Hi Nguyen (and Sark),
besides the J Desroussaux work there is a Guy Venot publication - very useful !
See scan for how to order it from France; Paypal payment possible 22 Euro for non members.



Mauriziolaos

Hi Sark,
here a postal map of 1914 where you can see that your letter from Xieng Khouang (correct rate to France of 6c. + 30 c. airmail fee) went through the postal route of Vinh and than Hanoi where it flew to Paris..
nice item - province postmarks are uncommon !
mauriziolaos

Mauriziolaos Hi

Thanks for posting the maps. I revisited the thread today with a view to copying one but they have disappeared. Do you know if there is a problem with the originals?

Ta

Sark