Indian state revenue stamps, and stamped papers

ikanek · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 03:32:11 am

birder wrote:

One of the smaller stamps from Baghal. How many are there of this type?

This issue was printed in panes of 4. This small revenue stamps from Baghal are quite uncommon, although your type is probably the most encountered.
I managed to get unused copy (they were probably issued without gum).

ikanek · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 03:35:29 am

birder wrote:

The famous water colour from Datia. Does this appear genuine? I have another copy on an 1895 document. When was this stamp issued?

KM gives a date of 1917 which I think is totally wrong. I think it should be very similar as postage issues - so around 1895 seems right.

Good news - your stamp is 100 % genuine. In Spink auction I remember seeing unused sheet of 9 (or more, I don´t know now).

ikanek · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 03:38:11 am

birder wrote:

The big mystery stamp

This big mystery is from Khetri - district of Jaipur. Several similar series is known and listed in KM. I have about 30 different including one 50 rupees value on document. All of them were issued between 1893 and 1898.

ikanek · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 03:39:31 am

I was not able to see your Sakti stamp - probably 12 annas in teal-blue?

birder · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 03:42:43 am

ikanek wrote:

birder wrote:

New acquisitions..

How can the colours be different in a joined pair?

I think there may be several reasons for this:
1) color changelling - one stamp was more on the sun and became a little bit bleached
2) due to poor color managament
3) due to some chemical treatment

I think I have similar pair or a pane of 4.

I think this could be due to uneven ink quality. The person I got it from had stored it quite well. But then others before him....one can not be sure.

birder · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 03:43:57 am

ikanek wrote:

birder wrote:

This one I have not been able to identify at all.

This one is from DASADA, a smaller state in Gujarat. So you can use this stamp to practice Gujarati script. The word Dasada is mentioned at right.

Two series with similar look are known - Court Fee and General.

What is the word just before "Dasada"?

birder · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 03:46:36 am

ikanek wrote:

I was not able to see your Sakti stamp - probably 12 annas in teal-blue?

Sorry.

No this is the One Anna.

birder · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 03:49:23 am

ikanek wrote:

birder wrote:

One of the smaller stamps from Baghal. How many are there of this type?

This issue was printed in panes of 4. This small revenue stamps from Baghal are quite uncommon, although your type is probably the most encountered.
I managed to get unused copy (they were probably issued without gum).

Would you kindly post a scan of the unused, whenever it is convenient. I think I was lucky to get a creased half blotted copy since this stamp is virtually not available at all around here.

Thanks and regards.

birder · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 03:50:30 am

ikanek wrote:

birder wrote:

The famous water colour from Datia. Does this appear genuine? I have another copy on an 1895 document. When was this stamp issued?

KM gives a date of 1917 which I think is totally wrong. I think it should be very similar as postage issues - so around 1895 seems right.

Good news - your stamp is 100 % genuine. In Spink auction I remember seeing unused sheet of 9 (or more, I don´t know now).

Many thanks for the good news. Thanks also for confirming the year of issue.

maptrekker · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 03:57:55 am

Quote:

I like my first Sakti? Where was Sakti? In Gujarat or in Rajasthan or elsewhere?

Nice additions to your collection.

Sakti State was in the Eastern States Agency. After independence it was in Madhya Pradesh and currently in Chhattisgarh.

birder · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 03:59:49 am

Ikanek, That block of 12 from Suket you mentioned a few days back....it has been on my mind. Would 12 not make it a complete sheet? Can we see a scan..please.

Thanks and regards.

ikanek · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 04:01:34 am

birder wrote:

Would you kindly post a scan of the unused, whenever it is convenient. I think I was lucky to get a creased half blotted copy since this stamp is virtually not available at all around here.

So, here it is:

Unfortunately, it has some dirt fingers put on the bottom selvedge. But it is the only one, I have seen unused. And from the back is apparent that it was never used.

ikanek · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 04:07:46 am

birder wrote:

Ikanek, That block of 12 from Suket you mentioned a few days back....it has been on my mind. Would 12 not make it a complete sheet? Can we see a scan..please.

Thanks and regards.

As Tony will surely agree, here it is - a KING OF UGLIES - SUKET STATE:

But I am not sure that this is a complete sheet, but have seen two of them from the exactly same positions.

ikanek · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 04:10:20 am

birder wrote:

What is the word just before "Dasada"?

It is not much apparent on this particular stamp, but the word is Talukdaar.

ikanek · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 04:12:03 am

birder wrote:

A nice stamp and also quite rare.

You have added some interesting items to your growing collection - keep going :lol:

.

birder · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 04:16:16 am

ikanek wrote:

birder wrote:

Would you kindly post a scan of the unused, whenever it is convenient. I think I was lucky to get a creased half blotted copy since this stamp is virtually not available at all around here.

So, here it is:

Unfortunately, it has some dirt fingers put on the bottom selvedge. But it is the only one, I have seen unused. And from the back is apparent that it was never used.

Very nice stamp. Thanks for posting. Did you know that Baghal palace is now a heritage resort hotel?

birder · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 04:18:06 am

maptrekker wrote:

Quote:

I like my first Sakti? Where was Sakti? In Gujarat or in Rajasthan or elsewhere?

Nice additions to your collection.

Sakti State was in the Eastern States Agency. After independence it was in Madhya Pradesh and currently in Chhattisgarh.

Thanks for the info Maptrekker.

birder · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 04:19:54 am

ikanek wrote:

As Tony will surely agree, here it is - a KING OF UGLIES - SUKET STATE:

But I am not sure that this is a complete sheet, but have seen two of them from the exactly same positions.

I will try to compare my two copies carefully. Thanks for posting. Why do you say this might not be a complete sheet?

birder · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 04:23:15 am

The smaller Akalkots...the ones without the Red Flag.

ikanek · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 04:32:13 am

birder wrote:

Very nice stamp. Thanks for posting. Did you know that Baghal palace is now a heritage resort hotel?

Heritage resort hotel is a good news. And did you know that ruler´s palace in Bonaigarh (capital of Bonai state) is now abandoned and ruined? And even citizens here have no idea that there was some Bonai state? It is sad that people have little knowledge of his own history.

ikanek · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 04:36:23 am

birder wrote:

I will try to compare my two copies carefully. Thanks for posting. Why do you say this might not be a complete sheet?

The bottom stamps have only one frame line at the bottom, so I think it is already a bottom part of the sheet.

On top is also only one frame line so it also may be the margin of the sheet.

But on the left and right there could be additional stamps. Try to plate your stamps and if you could not find them, you will have an answer.

ikanek · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 04:37:21 am

birder wrote:

The smaller Akalkots...the ones without the Red Flag.

Yes, this one is pretty different from all of the smaller revenue types.

birder · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 04:43:40 am

ikanek wrote:

birder wrote:

I will try to compare my two copies carefully. Thanks for posting. Why do you say this might not be a complete sheet?

The bottom stamps have only one frame line at the bottom, so I think it is already a bottom part of the sheet.

On top is also only one frame line so it also may be the margin of the sheet.

But on the left and right there could be additional stamps. Try to plate your stamps and if you could not find them, you will have an answer.

Tried plating and failed miserably. One of my stamps is a different sheet altogether. The pther one, which I thought was the same type also has the value in words as "Aath Aane" and not "Aath Anna".

Thanks and regards.

maptrekker · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 05:13:25 am

This must be Maharao Tej Ram Singhji who became Maharao in July 1946 at the ripe old age of 3½ years. He was the adopted son of Maharao Sir Sarup Ram Singhji. The father had ruled Sirohi State as a Hindu but had secretly converted to Islam in 1927.

ikanek · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 05:18:24 am

birder wrote:

Tried plating and failed miserably. One of my stamps is a different sheet altogether. The pther one, which I thought was the same type also has the value in words as "Aath Aane" and not "Aath Anna".

Yes, these are clearly from other plates. There are many styles - sizes, values, varieties - so it would be probably the worst state to prepare a specialized listing.

birder · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 05:28:50 am

ikanek wrote:

Heritage resort hotel is a good news. And did you know that ruler´s palace in Bonaigarh (capital of Bonai state) is now abandoned and ruined? And even citizens here have no idea that there was some Bonai state? It is sad that people have little knowledge of his own history.

A number of Maharajas of the Eastern Agency formed the Rajkumar College. Just check out the members of the governing body , managing committee etc.

http://rajkumarcollege.com/about-us.htm

tonymacg · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 09:34:27 am

ikanek wrote:

birder wrote:

Ikanek, That block of 12 from Suket you mentioned a few days back....it has been on my mind. Would 12 not make it a complete sheet? Can we see a scan..please.

Thanks and regards.

As Tony will surely agree, here it is - a KING OF UGLIES - SUKET STATE:

But I am not sure that this is a complete sheet, but have seen two of them from the exactly same positions.

Jiri, I love it :lol:

birder · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:21:58 pm

birder wrote:

ikanek wrote:

Heritage resort hotel is a good news. And did you know that ruler´s palace in Bonaigarh (capital of Bonai state) is now abandoned and ruined? And even citizens here have no idea that there was some Bonai state? It is sad that people have little knowledge of his own history.

A number of Maharajas of the Eastern Agency formed the Rajkumar College. Just check out the members of the governing body , managing committee etc.

http://rajkumarcollege.com/about-us.htm

Has anybody ever seen stamps from Nilgiri, Parlakimedi, Jarada, Baramba, Athagarh, Bolangir, Daspalla, Gangpur, Kawardha, Khandpara, Kharswan, Nayagarh, Tigiria, Seraipali, Purulia, Cuttack, Puri etc.?

All these states are represented in the college management.

maptrekker · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:53:21 pm

Here are a pair of revenues that are right up there with the uglies.

I have come to the conclusion that these come from Patdi State. They seem to be signed Naransinhji. I have found a Darbar Shri Pratapsinhji Naransinhji Desai of Patdi State.

This web site shows the coat of arms of Patdi which seems to match the one on the stamps: http://sansthanshripatdi.com/

birder · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 13:04:11 pm

Nice stamps.I also have a pair. Not as nice though.

The banner on the stamps reads (in Hindi)--"Sansthaan Shri Patdi". This banner can be seen under the Shivlingam(?) just below the crossed lanceflags.

One more thing, if you look at the stamps carefully, you will observe that Stamp Serial Number 10052 was sold on 10.7.41 and stamp with Serial Number 10151 was sold on 30.8.41. Works out to an average of barely 2 stamps a day. Two cups of tea for the Maharaja .

Thanks and regards.

maptrekker · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 13:12:09 pm

Do your stamps also have Naransinhji as the signature? Do you think the darbar actually signed the stamps?

The values appear to be written in by hand on the left side.

From what I can find out, Patdi was a small state of 39 square miles and a population of 3147 in 1941.

birder · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 13:18:59 pm

maptrekker wrote:

Do your stamps also have Naransinhji as the signature? Do you think the darbar actually signed the stamps?

The values appear to be written in by hand on the left side.

Thanks for drawing attention to the values. The two stamps would have paid for two cusps of tea AND some basic snax for the Maharaja.

No, my stamps are not signed by Naransinhji.
Both my stamps are signed by Pratap Sinhji.

Shall post scans shortly.

birder · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 13:26:15 pm

My Patdi stamps :

I would not think that Darbar actually signed them. The use of the honorific "ji" in the name written on the stamp should normally preclude this possibility. Maybe, somebody else wrote the Raja's name on the stamps as a simple issue control measure.

Thanks and regards.

maptrekker · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 13:45:31 pm

I see that NARANSINHJI CHANDRASINHJI was darbar from1940-1941.

His son, PRATAPSINHJI NARANSINHJI, was darbar from 1941-1978.

So the "signatures" NARANSINHJI and PRATAPSINHJI may refer to two different darbars.

NARANSINJI CHADRASINHJI died on 17 Dec 1941, so my stamps were during his reign.

Since everything was filled in by hand, this was the only stamp they ever needed.

birder · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 13:57:20 pm

maptrekker wrote:

Its interesting that the darbar's full name was Darbar Shri Pratapsinhji Naransinhji Desai.

So Pratapsinhji and Naransinhji were parts of his full name.

No, that would be an incorrect inference.

In those parts (Western India), the father's name to this date forms the middle name of a person. This practise is followed in some western countries too.

In 1941, Pratap Sinh succeeded Naran Sinh as the ruler.

The names on the stamps are of two different persons, father and son, who occupied the throne on the relevant date.

Thanks and regards.

maptrekker · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 14:01:10 pm

You found the answer before I did. I edited my previous response after yours.

In any case, one stamp good for all values and all darbars.

birder · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 14:07:58 pm

maptrekker wrote:

This must be Maharao Tej Ram Singhji who became Maharao in July 1946 at the ripe old age of 3½ years. He was the adopted son of Maharao Sir Sarup Ram Singhji. The father had ruled Sirohi State as a Hindu but had secretly converted to Islam in 1927.

Thanks for the info, Maptrekker.
Where can I read up more on the highlighted portion above?

maptrekker · **Posted:** Tue Nov 08, 2011 14:17:06 pm

I read about his secret conversion to Islam here:

http://www.royalark.net/India/sirohi.htm

Looking at the article's sources, the documentation is located at the Oriental and India Office Collection, British Library, St Pancras, London.

ikanek · **Posted:** Wed Nov 09, 2011 03:59:36 am

birder wrote:

Has anybody ever seen stamps from Nilgiri, Parlakimedi, Jarada, Baramba, Athagarh, Bolangir, Daspalla, Gangpur, Kawardha, Khandpara, Kharswan, Nayagarh, Tigiria, Seraipali, Purulia, Cuttack, Puri etc.?
All these states are represented in the college management.

Revenue stamped issued so far Nilgiri, Baramba, Athgarh, Daspalla, Gangpur, Kawardha, Khandpara, Kharsawan, Nayagarh and Tigiria.

Yes, I have seen them all and except Kharsawan all are represented in my collection.

birder · **Posted:** Wed Nov 09, 2011 04:03:16 am

ikanek wrote:

Revenue stamped issued so far Nilgiri, Baramba, Athgarh, Daspalla, Gangpur, Kawardha, Khandpara, Kharsawan, Nayagarh and Tigiria.

Yes, I have seen them all and except Kharsawan all are represented in my collection.

And that is why you are the true Guru.

ikanek · **Posted:** Wed Nov 09, 2011 04:26:50 am

birder wrote:

No, my stamps are not signed by Naransinhji. Both my stamps are signed by Pratap Sinhji.

Well, I have checked all my records and scans I have made within the last 12 years and have found that there were at least 3 other signs - one of them is fully in Gujarati.

The stamps of Patdi seems uninteresting (one series is listed) but it is a great candidate for one-frame exhibit. You can show values - from 1 anna to 50 rupees is recorded, colors - only violet listed but also much deeper shade - similar nearly to black, countersignatures, and finally surprise - TWO versions of the stamps.

All of here mentioned copies were handstamped, but I have and have seen also machine printed stamps. The latter have more clear design and more details are visible.

As per numbering - it seems from a glance look that all denominations were numbered by hand for all values TOGETHER. This is good for estimating number of issued stamps - which is probably about 25,000 copies. Provided that this is for all values (about 12 listed), you can see that these stamps should be quite rare. It is more likely that the most needed values were used in larger quantities than higher (let say above 2 rupees), so all rupee values should be rare.

birder · **Posted:** Wed Nov 09, 2011 04:54:18 am

ikanek wrote:

birder wrote:

No, my stamps are not signed by Naransinhji. Both my stamps are signed by Pratap Sinhji.

Well, I have checked all my records and scans I have made within the last 12 years and have found that there were at least 3 other signs - one of them is fully in Gujarati.

The stamps of Patdi seems uninteresting (one series is listed) but it is a great candidate for one-frame exhibit. You can show values - from 1 anna to 50 rupees is recorded, colors - only violet listed but also much deeper shade - similar nearly to black, countersignatures, and finally surprise - TWO versions of the stamps.

All of here mentioned copies were handstamped, but I have and have seen also machine printed stamps. The latter have more clear design and more details are visible.

As per numbering - it seems from a glance look that all denominations were numbered by hand for all values TOGETHER. This is good for estimating number of issued stamps - which is probably about 25,000 copies. Provided that this is for all values (about 12 listed), you can see that these stamps should be quite rare. It is more likely that the most needed values were used in larger quantities than higher (let say above 2 rupees), so all rupee values should be rare.

Thanks for the info Ikanek. It would be nice if you could share some scans of machine printed stamps and higher values etc.

maptrekker · **Posted:** Thu Nov 10, 2011 08:27:05 am

I would appreciate some help identifying this piece of stamped paper. Does it show a value?

birder · **Posted:** Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:54:23 pm

maptrekker wrote:

I would appreciate some help identifying this piece of stamped paper. Does it show a value?

This is a Three Rupee stamp paper from Jhalawar used in BrijNagar on 18.5.36. The top of the seal in Urdu states 1925 Sambat. The Hindi text on the seal is "Stamp Sarkar Jhalawar, Keemat Teen Rupaye".

Hope this helps.

maptrekker · **Posted:** Thu Nov 10, 2011 14:19:07 pm

I can see Jhalawar now that you have pointed it out.

Brij Nagar was the old name for Jhalawar City.

Thanks birder.

tonymacg · **Posted:** Thu Nov 10, 2011 14:42:36 pm

Not so old

This dates from 1940.

maptrekker · **Posted:** Thu Nov 10, 2011 16:35:42 pm

I read that the name was changed in 1941.

This is one case where the name of the capitol city was changed to match the state name. Usually the name of the state was changed to match the name of the capitol.

birder · **Posted:** Thu Nov 10, 2011 16:36:47 pm

Very nice Tony. "Brijnagar" and 1940 can clearly be seen in the cancel.

Also check out this lovely fort in Jhalawar :

The glorious Gagron fort is a fine example of 'Jal Durg' or 'Water fort', which is one of the nine types of durgs or forts, mentioned in the Hindu Shastras.

The foundation of this magnificent fort was laid in the 7th century and was completed by 14th century. It is surrounded on three sides by the waters of Ahu and Kali Sindh rivers and from its impregnable ramparts a breathtaking view can be enjoyed. Outside the fort is the Dargah of sufi saint Mitthe Shah, where a fair is held every year during the month of Moharram. Nearby is a monastery of saint Pipa, a contemporary of the famous saint Kabir.

Hey, I want to go to Jhalawar.

tonymacg · **Posted:** Thu Nov 10, 2011 17:01:42 pm

I heartily concur, Birder

If only I had the time, and could stop spending my money on the stamps, there are quite a few of the old States it would be nice to see: Orchha, and I'm assured, Bussahir among them.

birder · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 03:20:38 am

Some good news. My brother found vol I & II of Koeppel & Manners in Kolkata. Gave them to me today. I am all thrilled. Shall compare all my stamps with the catalog.


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