GB 2012: Diamond Jubilee MS & definitives

norvic · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 03:39:23 am

On 6 February 2012 Royal Mail will issue a miniature sheet to mark the Diamond Jubilee of the Accession to the throne of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II. The sheet contains 6 x 1st class stamps with designs taken from banknotes, coins and similar to the Wilding stamp:

The designs are:

- Wilding Definitve.
- £1 note portrait by Robert Austin first issued in 1960.
- £5 note portrait by Harry Eccleston first issued 1971.
- Pre-decimal coinage head by Mary Gillick.
- Arnold Machin's decimal currency head first introduced in 1968.
- New Jubilee Machin Definitve Stamp.

The new Machin definitive will also be issued with full security features in counter sheets, business sheets and retail booklets of 12.

An enlargement of this shows a background text of 'Diamond Jubilee' which does not appear to be reproduced on the portrait, unlike the existing security overlay. It's not clear whether this inscription will vary according to the source of the stamps:

gavin-h · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 03:53:14 am

Not a very inspired selection for me on first impressions.

I'd've expected "milestones" from the 6 decades of the Queen's reign. Instead we get 6 warmed-over portraits - 2 from the '50s (Wilding Definitive, Gillick coinage head), 3 from the 60s (Austin £1 note, Machin decimal currency head and Machin Definitive) and 1 from the (early) 70s (Eccleston £5 note).

Nothing new or particularly imaginative in the designs - in fact a pretty lazy attempt at non-design really. And yet another boring Machin-derivation will leave many of us screaming in frustration.

Old Yeti · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 03:55:39 am

The miniature sheet looks great IMO!

No matter what design...someone is always going to knock it. :lol:

Thanks for posting it...

alex

norvic · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 04:03:23 am

gavin-h wrote:

Not a very inspired selection for me on first impressions.

I'd've expected "milestones" from the 6 decades of the Queen's reign. Instead we get 6 warmed-over portraits - 2 from the '50s (Wilding Definitive, Gillick coinage head), 3 from the 60s (Austin £1 note, Machin decimal currency head and Machin Definitive) and 1 from the (early) 70s (Eccleston £5 note).

Nothing new or particularly imaginative in the designs - in fact a pretty lazy attempt at non-design really. And yet another boring Machin-derivation will leave many of us screaming in frustration.

I can sympathise with that view, but also with the view that it would be very difficult to identify just 6 events from those 60 years - with the 1966 World Cup and the opening of the Channel Tunnel already being marked on the House of Windsor timeline miniature sheet issued 4 days before these.

Personally I look forward to using these MS on my Stampboards parcels, and the singles on many letters. However I find the layout odd, with apparently two se-tenant pairs and two singles. I'll post a scan of the real 1st class stamp as soon as I can.

gavin-h · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 04:07:52 am

norvic wrote:

I can sympathise with that view, but also with the view that it would be very difficult to identify just 6 events from those 60 years - with the 1966 World Cup and the opening of the Channel Tunnel already being marked on the House of Windsor timeline miniature sheet issued 4 days before these.

Fair point. I was thinking back to the "portraits from 5 decades" they did for the Golden Jubilee and expecting something along those lines I guess. :idea:

norvic · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 04:14:57 am

A lot of people mentioned the previous two black & white sets (80th birthday and Golden Wedding) with a hope for something different. They got it!

Allanswood · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 13:12:59 pm

Oh good - their ugly.

Insipid and Uninspiring.
There's not even a theme (in colour, background, design etc) to tie them together.

AKPhilately · **Posted:** Sat Nov 12, 2011 21:44:54 pm

Well, I think it's an absolute gorgeous miniature sheet and with all values being first class rather than £1+ I may well buy loads and use them forever. Love the Machin definitive also. Yes they get a 10 out of 10 from me, and together with the Olympics defs are easily the best issue of 2012, and I haven't even seen them all yet...
:lol:

norvic · **Posted:** Sun Nov 13, 2011 02:42:21 am

Allanswood wrote:

Oh good - their ugly.

Insipid and Uninspiring.
There's not even a theme (in colour, background, design etc) to tie them together.

I'm confused: what does Oh good - their ugly mean?

Their ugly what? And why is it good - do we take it that you like ugly? If so, I'm pleased that you're pleased!
I believe the theme is HM The Queen, portraits thereof. Colour, background and design are not part of a theme, they are design considerations.

Apologies if English is not your first language.

Like the subsequent writer, I shall use a lot of them. And anybody buying anything that costs more than £2.76 to send will get one as their postage (like it or not!)

Allanswood · **Posted:** Sun Nov 13, 2011 13:03:54 pm

I was being depressingly sarcastic.

Naturally the theme is "the Queen", that was obvious as they could have used Thomas the Tank Engine images instead. (Sarcasm again!)
But nothing else ties them as a set.

norvic · **Posted:** Sun Nov 13, 2011 21:06:21 pm

Old Yeti wrote:

The miniature sheet looks great IMO!

No matter what design...someone is always going to knock it. :lol:

Thanks for posting it...

alex

And what's also true is that those who knock it rarely have any constructive suggestions for an alternative. Some would say, "how about a photo from each decade of the reign?". But others have already (months ago) indicated that they wanted an alternative to the black and white images used for the Diamond Wedding in 2007:

and the 80th Birthday:

The 50th anniversary of the coronation was half B&W and half colour:

I think these are a welcome change, though because of the miniature sheet format few people will buy them as few buy their stamps at Post Offices. Maybe some POs will push them instead of a book of 6.

AKPhilately · **Posted:** Sun Nov 13, 2011 21:27:18 pm

Good point Ian, we've been overloaded with these snapshot stamps, and the new MS is at least one with proper designs, whether you like 'em or not. And, having looked at it longer and more closely, I like the fact that they used the two definitives used in QE(2)'s reign (being pc here) as bookends, and have grouped the coin stamps and banknote stamps together as well. It's a well-balanced and well-thought-out MS, and as I said before I absolutely love it.

Pity, like you said, Ian, that the stamps won't be available on general sale as they might well prove to be incredibly popular among the general public.

Noggin the Nog · **Posted:** Tue Nov 15, 2011 08:12:02 am

How much will the miniature sheet sell for?

If it's just £2.76, then it really is a no-brainer about buying it and using the stamps individually or collectively on mail. They'll add real interest to correspondence, and you're right Adrian and Ian, I think that Royal Mail may well be missing a trick by not making them more widely available. Making all the stamps 1st class is a REALLY sound idea.

As a design I have seen far, far worse. It's a decent concept, well executed and looks pretty good. Compared with some of the commemorative designs over the past few years, this is better than the majority.

My only slight gripe would be that I feel that the modern Machin head unbalances the design a little by being where it is. Perhaps another coin image from recent years on the right hand side of the sheet, and the modern Machin in place of the Eccleston £5 note portrait, would have given a more symmetrical feel for those of us with OCD!!
Also, perhaps the dates could have been emboldened a little by printing them in a darker colour.

Otherwise, well done Royal Mail.

norvic · **Posted:** Tue Nov 15, 2011 08:27:53 am

Noggin the Nog wrote:

Also, perhaps the dates could have been emboldened a little by printing them in a darker [/color]

This is only a preliminary publicity picture, so the end result may be better* from that point of view. I don't suppose there will be any engraving on it, though, which would really make the 'banknote' stamps stand out.

(* We said that about the Machin Centenary Sheet as well. But at least that didn't get any worse!)

stampchris · **Posted:** Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:10:30 pm

Do we know if the Diamond Jubilee Machin in the MS is gummed? And if so is this going to be the only source of the gummed stamp?

norvic · **Posted:** Tue Nov 15, 2011 19:41:38 pm

We don't -

It probably is -

It probably will be! :lol:

gavin-h · **Posted:** Tue Nov 15, 2011 21:19:31 pm

norvic wrote:

We said that about the Machin Centenary Sheet as well.

And It I thought it only seemed as if Machins had been around for 100 years :lol:

Iggy · **Posted:** Thu Nov 17, 2011 02:21:02 am

Nice Miniature sheet. thanks for posting it Ian.

I wonder if there will be any commemorative booklets with 4x 1st (new jubilee definitives ) and 2x 1st commemoratives.

Like this:

Would be nice if there were one for each of the new designs.

Iggy

norvic · **Posted:** Thu Nov 17, 2011 02:32:17 am

You don't expect them to have thought of that?

They could have put all 6 into a 6 x 1st booklet at definitive size, but I doubt if that would work without the so-called-but-ineffective security features.

Iggy · **Posted:** Thu Nov 17, 2011 02:40:55 am

norvic wrote:

They could have put all 6 into a 6 x 1st booklet at definitive size

I did think of that also, like the 6x1st definitive size smilers. But to have them on the commemorative booklets would make a nice display. Perhaps 1 design per booklet, that would give 5 new booklets in total.

Iggy

norvic · **Posted:** Thu Nov 17, 2011 02:56:19 am

You needing something to boost your turnover? :lol:

norvic · **Posted:** Sun Dec 04, 2011 02:42:05 am

Further details of this issue, and the sources of each of the portraits on our new webpage for this issue.

1st class Large Letter sheets, booklets and business sheets will be issued in March.

VegasCraig · **Posted:** Tue Dec 27, 2011 21:13:55 pm

I'll be in Belfast from February 15th to the 17th, and I sure hope I can pick up a few of the miniature sheets at the main post office there-a couple to save & one to use for postage (with 30p worth of assorted Machins) for postcards back home...

Would the souvenir sheet be so,etching generally sold at post offices in the UK, or is this more of a philatelic bureau type of thing?

norvic · **Posted:** Fri Dec 30, 2011 06:46:31 am

The miniature sheet should be available at all post offices. Same offices should also have the Machin stamp in ordinary sheets and in booklets of 12.

Best thing you can do for Machins would be 10p + 20p - and write the address after adding the stamps!

PeterS · **Posted:** Fri Dec 30, 2011 08:47:39 am

I must admit, I am somewhat surprised there are no higher (foreign rate) denominations included. Seems strange that no Jubilee commemorative would be available for the airmail rate to Australia, for example.

You can be sure that Australia Post will certainly issue International stamps for the Jubilee!

Despite what you might hear to the contrary, the links to the monarchy (in Australia) are as strong now as any time in the last 35 years. The recent Royal Visit was a big hit with a whole new generation, for example.

stampchris · **Posted:** Fri Dec 30, 2011 14:39:22 pm

PeterS wrote:

I must admit, I am somewhat surprised there are no higher (foreign rate) denominations included. Seems strange that no Jubilee commemorative would be available for the airmail rate to Australia, for example.

You can be sure that Australia Post will certainly issue International stamps for the Jubilee!

Despite what you might hear to the contrary, the links to the monarchy (in Australia) are as strong now as any time in the last 35 years. The recent Royal Visit was a big hit with a whole new generation, for example.

There is another issue from Royal Mail on 31 May for the Diamond Jubilee. No doubt that will have stamps for the various rates.

I'm surprised Australia Post isn't releasing an issue for the Diamond Jubilee on 6 February, as they did for the Golden Jubilee in 2002. Perhaps they'll release the Diamond Jubilee issue closer to the Queen's Birthday.

norvic · **Posted:** Fri Dec 30, 2011 20:49:11 pm

These are all 1st class inland, the Machin definitive replacing the Olympic one issued 5 January which itself replaces the current gold 1st class Machin.

The 31 May Jubilee issue will include airmail rate stamps as well as 1st class inland.

I now see that Chris got in hours ago: this time the system didn't warn me that there had been another post since the one I replied to.

Draccae · **Posted:** Sat Dec 31, 2011 03:00:24 am

Thanks for posting.

Nice to see what they came up with...though rather bland in my opinion.

Raz · **Posted:** Thu Jan 12, 2012 07:11:08 am

Very bland compared with your colourful work, Draccae! :!:

My opal ring reminds me of your artwork every time I look at it. :mrgreen:

Thanks for posting these, Ian, they are not bad in my opinion, but hopefully the newer versions will have a bit of something extra. I prefer her Majesty to her predecessors, and anyone who likes dogs can't be all bad. :wink:

By predecessors I meant the female ones, Elizabeth and Mary, to be exact. I think Alexandra was the best you could ever get, but apparently her deafness was seen as being stand-offish, or snobbery. But I think she was a real Royal. Any stamps of Alexandra, BTW?

norvic · **Posted:** Thu Jan 12, 2012 07:13:11 am

Raz wrote:

Any stamps of Alexandra, BTW?

Not British, but from memory she was on Canadian - and Newfoundland almost certainly as they got every senior Royal available apparently.

Raz · **Posted:** Thu Jan 12, 2012 07:17:49 am

Yes, if it wasn't for Newfoundland and Canada there wouldn't be much of Edward 8th for me to collect.

Except for the stuff that I get from you, when British Post gets around to issuing it. Without the Queen Mother's mafia to control things, the strings seem to have been loosened somewhat.

norvic · **Posted:** Mon Jan 16, 2012 22:44:26 pm

Actual diamond jubilee definitive to be issued 6 February:

Used Glasgow 13 I 2012

norvic · **Posted:** Mon Jan 16, 2012 23:26:01 pm

My correspondent has now sent a copy of the one he posted to himself.

"Your cover is postmarked a day earlier than mine yet was posted at the same time in the same post box ! :-(

"

His is postmarked 2pm 14 - I- 2012 :shock:

asmodeus · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2012 03:56:40 am

I will order a few MS and booklets and produce a few Field Post covers.

I like the MS.....

norvic · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2012 08:04:44 am

Sometimes a photo is better than a scan, and this one shows the security overlay like my scans can't.

stampchris · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:30:14 am

norvic wrote:

Sometimes a photo is better than a scan, and this one shows the security overlay like my scans can't.

Found any hidden security codes?

norvic · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2012 20:23:05 pm

Welcome back Chris. No hidden security code because this is the counter sheet stamp - doesn't need a source code. The others, of course, are not yet with us.

I emailed you last week about 2011 stamps; check your spam folder or let me know that you haven't got it and I'll resend

stampchris · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2012 20:53:30 pm

norvic wrote:

Welcome back Chris. No hidden security code because this is the counter sheet stamp - doesn't need a source code. The others, of course, are not yet with us.

I emailed you last week about 2011 stamps; check your spam folder or let me know that you haven't got it and I'll resend

Thanks Ian - and yes, email found and replied to.

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Tue Jan 17, 2012 21:44:35 pm

norvic wrote:

Raz wrote:

Any stamps of Alexandra, BTW?

Not British, but from memory she was on Canadian - and Newfoundland almost certainly as they got every senior Royal available apparently.

Canada: Quebec Tercentenary, 1908, the 2 cent red has Eddy and Alex. During his reign, Canada only did the Edward defins and the Tercentenary set; the next commems didn't come until 1917.

Newfoundland: wow, their defin sets are a full house of royals, shown at all ages of their life. (Canada did put Liz and Marg on the 1 cent Royal Visit in 1939). I recall Alex is on at least one Newfie defin, again maybe a 2-cent value?

Will mark the issue date of this M/S on the calendar, and will check out norvic's website for ordering, would rather support an SB than some bureaucratic philatelic centre, or worse one of the new-issue dealers that have enormous mark-ups (yes, they have to earn a living, but why should I help them pay a giant marketing bill for adverts everywhere); not to mention the promise of getting a copy of the M/S used on the letter :mrgreen:

.

norvic · **Posted:** Wed Jan 18, 2012 02:27:04 am

Breaking news - the booklet stamps have MTND instead of MOND in the text behind the Queen's head.

and more news since I typed that....

The code for the Miniature sheet is MMND in the same place, and I think we can safely assume that the code for business sheets is MBND.

maturin · **Posted:** Thu Jan 19, 2012 14:30:34 pm

[quote="norvic"]

I really like this design. It's clever. The artist is making an explicit reference to the “Formal Portait,” used on the Penny Black and USA of 1847 and early France.

Whoever designed this literally took portaits from coins and banknotes like he was inventing the first stamp in 1840, and thus suggests Elizabeth II is as important as Victoria!

The “Formal Portrait” is the attempt to recreate coinage on paper, a tradition from when stamp designing was new.

This is right out of Fundamentals of Philately, L.N. Wilson (2008 reprint). p. 91:

Every stamp portrait falls into one of two classes: (1) the “Formal” or idealized head or (2) the “Proper” or realistic or photographic.

The Formal Head “reveals clearly the historical origins and development the postage stamp, in that the types have a strongly numismatic flavor."

"The persons responsible for the first adhesive postage stamps had no precedent upon which to draw for size, shape or design; and the problem was solved literally by squaring the circle.”

"The heads of the sovereign which had since the time-lost origins of coinage, appeared on currency were transferred to rectangular pieces of paper.”

Maturin again:

BTW, Glen has a copy of Fundamentals of Philately for sale right now at http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=32156&p=2392031#p2392031. I bought a new one at a show recently and the 450+ pages devoted to the printing process alone are mind-boggling. Highly recommended.

norvic · **Posted:** Thu Jan 19, 2012 22:38:27 pm

stampchris wrote:

Found any hidden security codes?

Security codes, affecting the MOND behind the Queen's head are:

Miniature sheet - MMND
Business sheet - MBND
Book of Twelve - MTND
Counter sheet - no code, MOND

norvic · **Posted:** Thu Jan 19, 2012 22:57:12 pm

Images of actual products:

Miniature sheet - security code MMND

Business sheet of 100 (top panel only shown) - security code MBND. Printing date 02/12/11

Retail booklet of 12 - security code MTND. The cylinder numbers are W1 blue, W2 phosphor, W1 transparent/silver overlay. Pack date 25/10/11

Some miniature sheets have misplaced perforations, leaving the stamps badly off-center, and others are affected by the elliptical perforation die-cutter so much so that the stamps are damaged. I don't know the full extent of the problem. Third image shows view from the back.

norvic · **Posted:** Thu Jan 19, 2012 23:12:35 pm

Counter sheet (lower pane with cylinder numbers D1 D1 D1 and printing date 21/11/11)

asmodeus · **Posted:** Thu Feb 09, 2012 03:57:03 am

Got my stamps today and I recognized different U- shapes.

Counter sheet U- shape has got no break or a very very small break

Booklets: A break in the U shape

Perhaps different printers- at the moment I have got no more informations about these stamps.

norvic · **Posted:** Thu Feb 09, 2012 04:14:51 am

PO Counter sheets are printed by De La Rue, booklets are printed by Walsall Security Printers, Business Sheets of 100 are printed by De La Rue:

As you say the PO counter sheets (coded MOND) appear to have no split in the U, but some have a very small nick; the Business sheets (coded MBND) have a very definitive (small) split, and the booklets (coded MTND*) have a much wider split. The stamp in the (gummed) miniature sheet has no security slits.

*The code for booklets is MTND because it is a booklet of 12.

ScanStamps · **Posted:** Thu Feb 09, 2012 13:48:11 pm

I'm sure this has come up... but aren't the two "coin design" stamps unique and new in the sense that it's the first time we've ever seen stamps with the Monarch facing to the RIGHT?

Or maybe that's not new news....

Curious,
~Peter

norvic · **Posted:** Thu Feb 09, 2012 19:58:45 pm

Well spotted, it is the first time the portrait has faced right, other than as a profile on commemoratives.
And you're right we did mention this on our webpage way back, but it may not have been mentioned here before.

gavin-h · **Posted:** Tue Feb 14, 2012 06:33:02 am

gavin-h wrote:

Not a very inspired selection for me on first impressions.

Have to say, since I wrote that back in November, they have grown on me. Look forward to seeing them "in the flesh" so to speak. :idea:

norvic · **Posted:** Wed Feb 15, 2012 04:15:25 am

Apart from the pre-release one (13 January) this is my first Diamond Jubilee Machin, postmarked at the Jubilee Mail Centre!

KT GU TW / JUBILEE CFC4 13 February 2012

(Kingston-upon-Thames, GUildford, and TWickenham postcode areas, Jubilee Mail Centre, Culler-Facer-Canceller #4)


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GB 2012: Diamond Jubilee MS & definitives

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