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I have been thinking about starting a topical collection on blood and organ donation, which is related to my profession.

I thought it would be interesting to collect covers and other non-stamp items, in addition to the stamps. As I am very new to cover collecting, I thought I would get some advice on how to value covers.

This is new territory for me, I am used to being able to go to Scott and get an idea of the value of stamps I am looking to buy, but there are obviously many more variables to consider when collecting covers.

I've been reading some of the cover threads and things like whether the stamps are used in period, at the correct postal rate for the time, whether it's commercial or philatelic, etc seem to be important.

I understand that everyone will have different preferences for what they want to collect, and I will have to form this for myself as I acquire items, but I wanted to get some input from some experienced collectors.

So, to start with, here is a cover that I found on eBay:



It has an interesting slogan cancel: "BLOOD DONORS ARE STILL URGENTLY NEEDED" and seems to be in-period use of a UPU stamp at the correct rate for overseas airmail.

What would a good price for this cover be? I won't bias you by telling you what's it's listed at (yet) .

Thanks!

Here's one from Australia to the U.S. in 1951 with a similar slogan cancel. I couldn't find historical postal rates for Aus so not sure if this is the correct rate. Also the stamps were issued in 1932 and 1942, so not sure if this would be considered "in-period" use??

To value a cover there are a few areas to consider.

The First is the Stamp.(Mostly common, BUT )
Then the Postmark.(many and varied)
Then any additional labels(many and varied)
Was it redirected,(Many interesting marks)
Who it was mailed to. ( From Pollies to Film Stars)
Often forgotten is any additional marking on the back of the cover also adds value,

these are just the basics that need to be considered,
so you see there are MANY things to know,before you can actually VALUE a cover.

The 2 covers shown are very basic covers,but will be of value to different collectors,
Firstly the slogans,worth more to you than to someone who collects say a cooking theme,
If both of those covers had been used a few years earlier, they would have picked up further information in the form of Censor labels,and censor markings,
AS to value of the above covers,I would not pay more than a Couple of bucks each.

In most cases of stamps on covers,it is a case of cut the stamp off the cover,and you will have a 10 cent stamp. BUT leave it intact and you have a $1.00.+++ item.because of the above items listed.
To get exact values of all the markings one needs to have a heap of books,covering all the above listings,
But once you get involved with that you then become a Postal Historian,

_________________
Nunawading Stamp Fair
Last Sunday of Every Month - Jaycees Hall Silver Grove - Nunawading.

And if you can't be bothered with all that - have a look at Ebay and see what the average asking price is (ignore the ridiculously high prices)

D.

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Visit my Website - http://WWW.DJMSTAMPS.COM for Australia & World Stamps, Collections and Accessories

These 2 covers are listed on eBay for USD $9 and $8 respectively.

The 6d Kookaburra was first issued in 1937, CofA Watermark and Perf 13.5 x 14, reissued in 1942 CofA Watermark 14.75 x 14, and finally a No Wmk version was produced in 1956.

The 1/- Lyrebird on this cover was not issued in 1932. That stamp was twice the size of the one on the cover. The 1/- has a similar history to the 6d, being issued and reissued with different perforations and watermarks over a 20 year period, starting in 1937.


Since there was a 1/6d Airmail stamp in 1951 - The 1/6d Grey-Black Hermes, I would say that this was the correct rate, and that this is a commercial cover.

Norm

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Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

A worldwide search of 'blood slogan' (without the inverted commas) in the stamps category on ebay gives a return of 18 items, 16 of which are different. There are 3 Cyprus 1982 'Blood Donation Week' covers. Hardly the basis for an average asking price.

Once a collector ventures into a field this specialised he/she will pay over the odds for material if they need to.

My suggestion would be to Google 'blood slogan postmarks' (again without the inverted commas) and look at the results that the search returns. There will be auction houses in the results. You can at least see the reserves and perhaps prices realised and if an item was unsold you may get a good price.

Cheers,

Robert

Exactly, which was my point - you either stick a value on it like the ones you see on Ebay and hope for a quick sale, or buy yourself all of the books, catalogs, magazines etc which will give you a better value, but will cost you lots of time and money and no gaurantee of a sale .

D.

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Visit my Website - http://WWW.DJMSTAMPS.COM for Australia & World Stamps, Collections and Accessories

Thanks DJM and bathurst stamper for your comments, but I think you misunderstand - I'm not looking to sell, I'm considering collecting items related to blood and organ donation, but I have never really collected covers in earnest before, so don't really know what to expect to pay for items such as these 2 covers, which are currently listed for sale on eBay - i.e. are the asking prices of $9 and $8 US in the ballpark?

Thanks Norm. I'm obviously not an expert on Aussie stamps

If the item is of good enough quality, then I wouldn't complain about something under $10 - in fact I think they are a bit cheap if anything. Also if doesn't matter if you collect or sell, if you're worried about the price then as I said it will cost you lots of time and money in materials and research to get a more accurate figure.

D.

_________________
Visit my Website - http://WWW.DJMSTAMPS.COM for Australia & World Stamps, Collections and Accessories

Well there,s values and there.s values.
the old saying "One Man,s Meat is another Man,s Poison is good in the stamp world as well.

When one sells Stamp and has a business.Turn over is the name of the game,
to put a price of $6,7,8,9,Dollars on those covers then put them in Albums or even a Box,for that ONE collector who just collects Blood related items Is Just NOT worth the time and Space.
But if selling on the Internet with a customer base of Millions,some of whom are looking for that very item, is a different matter,and even if those covers are listed on E-Bay for $7.00.or so, does not mean they WILL SELL for that price.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder,you may be happy to pay $10.00 for such a cover, because it fits your collecting needs,re slogan,Postmark etc,
and if you are happy to pay $10.00. then its a GOOD BUY,and if its an item you have been looking for or have not seen before,and it gets you a Medal in Competition, then its an even better buy,
BUT if/when the time comes to sell, you may only get cents for it,as it really is a common item

_________________
Nunawading Stamp Fair
Last Sunday of Every Month - Jaycees Hall Silver Grove - Nunawading.

Yes, I'm getting the idea that for this sort of thing, there really is no fixed price like there would be for more "catalogue-able" items like MNH or used stamps. It all depends on what a collector would be willing to pay to get something that fits into a topical collection - and I'm realizing that often topical collectors end up paying more to get a particular stamp or stamp set that fits into their collection, than that same stamp would cost if one bought it in a larger country lot, for example.

I think I'll continue to troll the internet for a while and see what sorts of things get offered for sale, and the price range. I'd rather acquire items that have a little "something" that makes them more interesting/unique. We'll see what I can find...

I've gone through the same thought process myself, and given up.

Similar items are listed by one seller for hundreds (and they never sell), for a few dollars by others, and they sell for starting price with only one bid. Difficult to work out a going rate.

I would try browsing the fixed price listings from large scale dealers, like Jim Forte link here. At least dealer's prices are stable, and based on sound experience, rather than ebay where much stuff is sold by people who don't know the value of what they have (me included), or are trying to rip people off.

_________________
A man might as well marry ... if he finds a good wife he will be happy ... if not, he will become a philosopher.
Collecting Greater New Guinea & Macropods (Kangaroos & Wallabies).

Hi Canada stamper.

Topic "Blood" is very popular topical collection..you may find more information on ATA ( American Topical Association ) handbook..

Commercial cover is more rare then FDC...
example: Australia has a single issue on BLOOD DONATION 1960.
you have more chance to get a copy of the FDC from any dealer.

But you would be lucky if you find a commercial cover with above mentioned stamp in following format

single franking on cover used in 1960
multiple franking of the same stamp on one cover used in 1960.

Now try to compare ( FDC ) and ( above 2 cover )

Which would be rare to you ????
obviously one of the commercial cover .

usually Topical collector they collect commercial cover within 3-5 year from the date of the issue of that stamp.

Like 1960 stamps...used on 1960-65 ( acceptable )

This is what I see in American Topical Collector.

Thanks

Being in Canada, you're probably using Scott not SG (I'm also from "Trannah", so know what the American influence is like). MrBoggler has been involved in stamps since the time of Moses (hate to think what postage would be on a stone tablet ) so he gives a lot of good nuggets of thought.

In the SG Part 1 (Commonwealth to 1952...or is it 1970?), there's a chart the the beginning of each country section giving "cover values". Even from the esteemed SG, the most you'll get is a guideline. The chart will say something like "on cover values, multiply catalogue value accordingly: SG #1-20, from x10; #21-30, from x5; #31-56, from x3".

Its that niggly "from" in there that can make a difference. Bog-standard cover going from origin to major destination (ie. USA, UK), probably it will be valued at the 'minimum'. 'Unusual' destination (ie. Leeward Islands to Tahiti), some premium. Unusual origin (ie. small-town PNG), premium.

When I sell covers, I usually put them up on feeBay at 99 cents and "let the market decide". That's the spirit and the advantage of an auction. If you're a bourse dealer, you have to put a retail price on your material, which makes life harder. (of course there's always room for haggling downwards).

eBay has unfortunately confounded the matter with their "Buy it Now" system, which seems to make up wayyy too large a % of listings (hence their self-description "online marketplace" not "online auction site").

You might feel a bit of regret or hesitation at paying $8 for an item that someone tells you is "a two buck cover", but, if you pass on the one offered you at $8, how long will you wait until another example comes along? Sometimes at auction an item will go way over estimate, simply because 2 determined specialists both need that item.

Its not reflective of market prices for that item, its circumstances, and that is the case for your thematic interest, the covers in your OP. To a collector of rates, or solo frankings, these would be as representative as any other example. To you though, they have an element (the slogan cancel) that makes them stand out.

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

I think you hit the nail on the head. The problem with covers is that no 2 are ever identical. So, do I buy a cover I like or wait until something better might come along? I think I need to do some more exploring and see just what sort of covers are offered for sale over time, and also decide in my own mind just what it is I would like to collect - representative examples of everything that touches on the topic, or only covers that have something unique about them. I'm not even sure I know what I mean yet.

We're not talking about huge costs here anyway - I don't think I would dare to venture into buying more rare/expensive material until I get my feet wet a bit more.


KRAZZY, were you being literal or just posing a hypothetical example? I can't find a blood donation issue from Australia in 1960 in Scott. In fact, I can't find a blood donation issue from Australia at all, just an organ donation stamp from 2008.

There is no Blood Donation issue from Australia.
Just imagine or pretend for an example..nothing else

Canada stamper:

The GB cover is overpriced. It's a common item.

A collection of blood donor and related covers will be great fun for you.

If you are starting a collection it might be best to start at $1-2 per cover. You might wonder where these can be found. There are local shows in Southern Ontario attended by vendors who often have dollar boxes. The recent Unitrade show had so many covers at low prices that it was impossible to look through all the boxes. It takes a bit of work though but it is worth the effort.

Look through as many covers listed on eBay as you have time for. Many red cross items are not identified. Take your time in assembling your collection.

If you are looking for a slogan, try to get an attractive cover with an illustration and get a clean strike showing the entire cancellation. The stamp on the cover should be a light colour so that the slogan can be read. I prefer covers with definitives unless the commemorative stamp relates directly to the slogan. I am not interested in the rate when it comes to slogans.

Here is a selection of GB slogans. Some are quite difficult to find. It took me quite a while to locate some of them.

http://greatbritainphilately.blogspot.c ... eriod.html

You don't have to tell dealers what you are looking for, especially when you are looking for covers. Just ask to see covers and start looking! You will find great items where you least expect it. The key is persistence.

Here is an article dealing with the 1952 Canadian Red Cross stamp. It can give you an idea of what kinds of covers can be collected.

http://postalhistorycorner.blogspot.com ... rence.html

Here is an early Red Cross item:

http://postalhistorycorner.blogspot.com ... urses.html

At this early stage I would not advise spending more than $5.00 per cover (preferably only $1-2). Once you have gained the necessary knowledge and have seen enough covers you will become a pricing expert. Ultimately the value of a cover is the price you are willing to pay for it. Dealers' prices are often just shots in the dark and don't reflect the prices they paid for the items. I don't negotiate with dealers whose prices are unrealistic. I just walk away. I know that eventually I will find a similar cover that is reasonably priced. When I do, I pay the price listed by the dealer.

It takes a bit of time and effort. If you rely on dealers to do your work then expect to pay high prices (they have to make a living if they do it full-time).

The key is to plunge into dollar boxes. It's also much more rewarding to find the item yourself. Good hunting!

Hope this helps

Philcovex

Canada stamper:

Here are a few Canadian blood donor items:











philcovex

I love this postcard - the instructions are so quaint! Especially like the inclusion of "Oxo" and "Bovril" in the YOU MAY EAT category

Thanks for your advice. Your blog looks very interesting too and a good source of information.

Thanks!

Here's another interesting cover I found on eBay: NZ to US FDC with US postage due stamp.



However, I think I'm going to focus not on the Red Cross per se (too much material out there!!), but on the specific topic of blood and organ donation.

I think I will enjoy the hunt!

The advice to browse $1 boxes for thematic items is sound.The 2 covers shown at the start of the thread are relatively common ,even as commercial covers.I think you could build up a decent thematic collection on this reasonably narrow theme by keeping within a $1-$5 price range.First day covers have a finite price and are not scarce.I strongly believe that any thematic collection is enhanced by covers.Even cheap covers can give something extra to a collection.Anyone can acquire an unmounted mint collection if they have the cash which would be exactly the same as anyone else's.Ditto with FDC, although sometimes different postmarks and cachets can add interest.Covers/postal history are what makes a thematic/topical collection interesting and different.

Canada Stamper

Here is a cover with a Blood slogan on it.

If you want it, you can email via the board.
Paul

Hi Paul, thanks, I'll send you an email.
Jean

If you are going to head down the path of political correctness on all the perceived accuracy's of cover collecting with reference to value, etc., the joy of is going to go out the window.

Topical collecting is great fun. In your collecting the rules are?, only ONE, blood and organ donation.
If it was me I would start with two categories,

1) First Day Cover.
Could be Country specific or Global. Certainly inexpensive.

2) Postally Used.
Being post used covers all(excuse pun).

Sam

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Silence is golden

I think the above comments to be VERY true,every cover is different,and as such can produce a One of a Kind Collection,
Getting back to values,of course you can,t beat experience,
and over 20 -30 years of Buying and selling Covers,trolling through 1000,s of boxes at fairs etc,,one tends to see a lot of the same,
But when something you have not seen before is spotted in a box,,IT REALLY jumps up at you,and those are often the ones that get bought,
I then research them later at home,to find out what I have,

_________________
Nunawading Stamp Fair
Last Sunday of Every Month - Jaycees Hall Silver Grove - Nunawading.

Yes -- certainly that GB item is a routine one, $2 maybe, and if you want it for the blood donors slogan you'd be better off looking for a clearer, more readable strike on a lighter stamp (I've probably got one spare somewhere -- if I find it among my (ahem) incredibly well-organised material, I'll let you know).

The GB blood transfusion service back in the 1950s and 1960s used to send out stamped to order reply postcards for appointments too -- those are quite sought after and fetch about £15-25.

Are those something like the Canadian Red Cross appointment notice that philcovex posted above? Do you have any pictures of examples of these?

They're very much the same sort of thing, yes, except pre-stamped using the STO postal stationery dies rather than using adhesive stamps. Unfortunately I've never got round to acquiring any -- that's on the to-do list for my "card post" collection! The ones you usually see are the complete joined pairs with first half used and reply half unused, because the recipient didn't tear it off and send it back to say they were keeping the appointment.

Hi Canada stamper

I just found 3 FDC to BLOOD related Topic
I am not sure is this going to fit your collection or not
My price is US$20 for 3 FDC Plus US$3.00 Postage

I do accept PayPal & Moneybookers.com

Hello Krazzy,

Thank you for your offer, but at the moment I am not looking for FDCs.

Jean

The UK slogan cover is higher than I would pay if I was after the slogan. To be honest the slogan is common; but the stamp and usage is not.

Thanks Jack. I've actually been having luck finding covers with blood donation slogans for very reasonable prices on Delcampe. I'm also looking for commercial covers with blood and organ donation stamps - I've found some interesting items! Someday when I have time I'll post some of them on SB.

Just acquired some of the stamped to order postal stationery cards from 1951-2 -- these are outward half only (the recipient removed the reply half and sent it back to say they would be attending the blood donation session):













It's noticeable that the main text in each case is in the same colour as the main stamp -- the text on the back of the card would have been printed at the same time as the stamp on the reply half. Presumably the National Blood Transfusion Service kept a stock of these nationally, and then overprinted them in black with the date and time of local sessions when necessary.

The reason for the uprating was that the 1d basic inland printed matter rate was raised to 1½d on 1st June 1951, so any stocks stamped at the old rate needed an extra ½d stamp. The blue stamp had itself been in use a relatively short time, so both compounds are rather rare (no doubt most of the stock of red 1d+1d's had been used up and topped up with blue printings). The 1½d single value in green isn't all that common either, and I was pleased to find them.

To persue such covers cheaply $ wise you need want to go to shows and browse those $1 boxes, but could be far from cheap time and travel wise. Most sellers would not handle them individually any other way. The time and overhead to sell them individually on internet forces the much higher prices tou see, your decision becomes whether or not your interest is strong enough to pay those higher prices, with no realistic likelihood of significant resell value.

mozzerb these are very nice! Thanks for posting the pictures and information.

I've tried one local show but without much luck - there were only about a dozen or so dealers and not all of them had $1 boxes. I may try one of the large shows this year if I have time. I've actually been able to find some nice inexpensive items on Delcampe. Anyway, these are for my collection, I don't plan on re-selling. I'm a newbie when it comes to covers, cancels etc - but I'm having fun learning!

On a blood donation theme, the stand out item from Australia would be the following PSE:

This PSE retailed for AUD$100+ in the 1980s.
Search on "billy blood drop" on Stampboards (or eBay).

Didn't someone post here recently that the price had nosedived since then?

Now you can get them $US 10-15 from Ebay as BUY IT NOW

I got one for $10 on eBay. Couldn`t resist this one.

As an additional note, I find it interesting that only the green card mentions YELLOW JAUNDICE - some policy must have changed between March and Nov of that year.