Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

World's No#1 place to discuss STAMP COLLECTING and PHILATELY!
 

ZERO cost to ANYONE  -  NO annoying ads everywhere!

It is currently Wed May 22, 2013 20:35:58 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 59 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 02:59:43 am 
Offline
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 16:21:27 pm
Posts: 30
Location: RI, USA
Aside from collecting stamps and paper money of Portugal and colonies (my main collecting focus) I am also very interested in the secessionist states of Biafra, Katanga and South Kasai in Africa.

The history of these break-way states is fascinating and their stamps are readily available and affordable.

For some historical background on each country:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biafra

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Katanga

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Kasai

I am also very interested in Rhodesia and South Vietnam, but that is a story for another day.

While these areas interest me, they have sort of fallen along the wayside for me over the years, as I have focused on Portugal and colonies mostly.

However I have read just about everything I could lay my hands on about both Biafra and Katanga, including fiction and film.

For those of you who may collect banknotes, I highly recommend "The Bank Notes of Biafra" and "The Bank Notes of Katanga" both by Peter Symes.

All three were short-lived countries and their philatelic production was brief, but very interesting and readily obtainable for the most part. Used postal history, on the other hand, is a bit harder to find.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Katanga stamps
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 03:00:35 am 
Offline
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 16:21:27 pm
Posts: 30
Location: RI, USA
My apologies for using photos, but I do not yet have a scanner.

The State of Katanga seceded from the Congo on July 11th, 1960 and existed until January 15th, 1963 as an independent state. It was headed by Moise Tshombe, a charismatic politician who was connected to the Lunda tribe royal family. Tshombe was elected president of Katanga in August 1960, and declared that "we are seceding from chaos".

Katanga initially overprinted Congo stamps, but soon issues it's own postage.

Overprinted Congolese stamps:
Image
Image

and original Katangan issues:
Image
Image

Katanga also issued first day covers.
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 03:02:45 am 
Offline
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 16:21:27 pm
Posts: 30
Location: RI, USA
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Katanga postal stationary I believe was limited to overprinted Congo issues. Used postal covers are highly sought by collectors.

Congolese and Katangan currency. Katanga also issued a 5 Francs gold coins, for sale to collectors.

Image
Image

The 100 Katangese Francs note is from the second series.

The firsts series was of inferior quality printing and all notes had a portrait of Moise Tshombe.

I no longer have any of these in my collection, unfortunately.

They have appreciated in value quite a bit.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Stamps of South Kasai
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 03:03:19 am 
Offline
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 16:21:27 pm
Posts: 30
Location: RI, USA
The Autonomous State of South Kasai existed very briefly as an autonomous state, from August 8th, 1960 to December 30th, 1961.

It was ruled by Albert Kalonji, a chief of the Luba tribe.

Like Katanga, South Kasai initially overprinted Congo stamps until it could issue it's own designs.

Image

There is also a souvenir sheet, depicting Albert Kalonji.
Image


More information on South Kasai stamps is available here:
http://www.imperial-collection.net/southkasai01.html


Some Congolese stamps:
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Biafra stamps
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 03:05:12 am 
Offline
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 16:21:27 pm
Posts: 30
Location: RI, USA
The Republic of Biafra was a secessionist state in south-eastern Nigeria which existed from May 30th 1967 until it's surrender to Nigerian forces on January 15th 1970.

The secession was lead by the Igbo tribe, based on economic, ethnic, cultural and religious differences with the predominantly Muslim peoples of the northern region of Nigeria.

Biafra was recognized by Gabon, Haiti, Ivory Coast, Tanzania and Zambia.

It received covert help from France and Portugal, and some very adventurous volunteers (like Rolf Steiner, who's book "The Last Adventurer" I highly recommend) and Count Carl Gustaf Ericsson von Rosen (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gustaf_von_Rosen ).
Biafra's leader was Odumegwu Ojukwu, a military officer of the Igbo tribe and former governor of the eastern region of Nigeria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._Odumegwu_Ojukwu

The Biafran government issued banknotes and postage stamps. The postage stamps were used mostly within the country. The stamps are not recognized as legitimate by the major stamp catalogs and were not valid for international mail.

Biafran stamps were initially just overprinted Nigerian stamps (overprinted SOVEREIGN BIAFRA), but the newborn country soon issued it's own designs.

The first stamps of Biafra were issued on 5 February 1968. These were printed in Portugal, as were the initial series of bank notes.

This issue consisted of three values honoring Biafran "independence".

Image

and First Anniversary Independence issues
Image
Image
Image
Image

Butterflies and Flowers, Mexico Olympics, 2nd Anniversary of Independence and Papal visit to Africa issues:

Image

A couple of souvenir sheets:
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Biafra currency
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 03:06:17 am 
Offline
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 16:21:27 pm
Posts: 30
Location: RI, USA
Some Biafran currency;

Image

There was also a silver 1 pound coin, which I no longer have in my collection. I do not believe it ever circulated but was a collector issue.

Bank notes of the first and second series.
Image
Image
Image
Image

and a 1000 Pound bond.
Image

More information on Biafran stamp issues is available here:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/World_Stam ... gue/Biafra

This issue is from Gabon, but has a Biafran connection.
Image


I hope you enjoy this little trip back in time and snapshot of history. :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 03:09:31 am 
Offline
GOLD Shooting Star Stampboards LEGEND!
GOLD Shooting Star Stampboards LEGEND!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 01:17:37 am
Posts: 8450
Location: Fragrant Harbour, Hong Kong
Great overview of these states! :D Even a few stamps in there I haven't seen before.

If "bond king" Bill Gross had been around during the days that Biafra existed, I wonder if he would have bought any of the Biafran bonds. :lol:

The great thing about short-lived places is a collection can cross different fields of collectables, so a display can be both philatelic and numismatic, without becoming 'bogged down' in thousands of pieces.

Now the challenge, to display postal history. 8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 06:56:46 am 
Offline
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 16:21:27 pm
Posts: 30
Location: RI, USA
A link with some images of Biafran postal history.

http://www.biafra.de/letters/index.html


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 07:46:49 am 
Offline
RED Shooting Star Posting MANIAC!
RED Shooting Star Posting MANIAC!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:00:19 am
Posts: 1826
Location: New York, NY
Excellent group of collections.

With your specialty in Portugal and Colonies, do you collect the stamps and coins of the Republic of Cabinda?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 07:54:56 am 
Offline
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 16:21:27 pm
Posts: 30
Location: RI, USA
maptrekker wrote:
Excellent group of collections.

With your specialty in Portugal and Colonies, do you collect the stamps and coins of the Republic of Cabinda?


I do not. As far as I know Cabinda is part of Angola (de facto) and some might argue still a Portuguese protectorate (de jure).

Given the oil there, I am sure everyone under the sun wants to lay claim to it. :lol:

The post-independence issues do not interest me much, way too many, and mostly collector focused designs.

I prefer the classics, and the 1950s and 60s issues.

In any case I have not seen any such issues from Cabinda.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 02:03:01 am 
Offline
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 22:57:21 pm
Posts: 15906
Location: Sydney, Australia
Image


I was lotting up some other weird stuff tonight for sale and saw these among it!

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=27100

I am guessing these are POSTAL used?

Glen

_________________
.
Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 02:56:49 am 
Offline
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 16:21:27 pm
Posts: 30
Location: RI, USA
Hi Glen
Yes, postal used Katanga is much more common than from Biafra or Sud-Kasai (the rarer of the three in used condition).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 03:09:12 am 
Offline
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 22:57:21 pm
Posts: 15906
Location: Sydney, Australia
Did the UPU recognise these issues?

_________________
.
Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 03:18:33 am 
Offline
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 16:21:27 pm
Posts: 30
Location: RI, USA
Katanga was not a member state of UPU, but it's stamps seemed to be readily accepted on international mail. Maybe due to the fact that initially they were overprinted Congo issues?

Scott does list Katanga issues, but not Biafra. Also a small mystery..

If you search FleaBay at any given time you will find postal history of Katanga. Biafra only rarely, Sud-Kasai I've never found for sale in over 10 years of searching.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 01:13:55 am 
Offline
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 16:21:27 pm
Posts: 30
Location: RI, USA
I forgot to list a very well done website on the stamps of the Congo, which covers not only Katanga and Kasai, but much more. Highly recommended. It covers issues from the Belgian Congo, Congo, Zaire, Katanga, South Kasai, etc.. every period, with much detail. Even the issues of the Republique Populaire, established in Stanleyville by Gizenga.

http://www.congostamps.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 01:29:01 am 
Offline
PLATINUM Shooting Star Stampboard LEGEND
PLATINUM Shooting Star Stampboard LEGEND
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 20:24:58 pm
Posts: 12548
Location: A bar somewhere near you ....
Great website .. hope that chap joins up and adds to this thread!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 03:43:13 am 
Offline
RED Shooting Star Posting MANIAC!
RED Shooting Star Posting MANIAC!
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 05:25:38 am
Posts: 1282
Location: Milwaukee, WI
There are also lots of fairly inexpensive error stamps for the Katanga overprints:

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 03:47:05 am 
Offline
RED Shooting Star Posting MANIAC!
RED Shooting Star Posting MANIAC!
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 05:25:38 am
Posts: 1282
Location: Milwaukee, WI
On the other hand, non-philatelic covers are not so easy to get. Here are a couple. The international postal rate was 10F, apparently:

Image
Image
Image

This sort of mish-mash of overprinted stamps to make up the rate is typical of the covers I've seen.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 04:01:31 am 
Offline
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 16:21:27 pm
Posts: 30
Location: RI, USA
Without a doubt actual postal history is harder to find, however of the three, Katanga is the easiest to find used covers for. There are a handful listed on Fleabay now. None for Biafra or Kasai.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 06:04:28 am 
Offline
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 03:43:31 am
Posts: 366
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Duarte,

You will need to scroll down a bit but Delcampe at Kasai has at least two covers listed.

Best wishes,
Andrew


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 07:16:47 am 
Offline
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 16:21:27 pm
Posts: 30
Location: RI, USA
Thanks Andrew. I just recently started looking on Delcampe. The last time I checked there were none.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 20:57:55 pm 
Offline
AQUA Shooting Star Board ADDICT!
AQUA Shooting Star Board ADDICT!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 16:58:23 pm
Posts: 696
Location: Bangalore City, India
great topic and interesting information. I collect Biafra stamps on the side, used to collect Katanga too...

I was wondering, besides Biafra, Katanga & Sud Kasai, were there any other secessionist stamp issues from Africa? From Somalia, Sudan or elsewhere?

Someone mentioned Cabinda, does anyone have Cabinda stamps? Please share the images...

_________________
to reflect on God's creation is very fruitful meditation, and to reflect on Man's beauty of a creation - stamps - is no less either!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 01:37:35 am 
Offline
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 16:21:27 pm
Posts: 30
Location: RI, USA
The African continent is rife with actual secessions, attempted secessions, liberation movements, unilateral declarations of independence, etc.

One could argue that Rhodesia, Eritrea, Polisario controlled Western Sahara and possibly a few others could be grouped also in the secessionist states.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 02:35:05 am 
Offline
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 13, 2010 03:43:31 am
Posts: 366
Location: Ottawa, Canada
There are several Kasai related covers up for auction at:

http://www.daviddelhaye.com/en/vente_publique/pays/sud_kasai/lettres.html

Best wishes,
Andrew


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 04:16:29 am 
Offline
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 16:21:27 pm
Posts: 30
Location: RI, USA
Thanks, Andrew. The prices reflect the scarcity of these.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2011 08:56:36 am 
Offline
I was online for our Birthday Number 3!
I was online for our Birthday Number 3!
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 18, 2007 06:44:20 am
Posts: 77
Location: Warrenton, Virginia.
I should have pulled all of the Portugal, Angola, Mozambique covers and the S. Kasai S/S Missionary cover by tomorrow and can send them off to you. You can be sure that I will be asking considerably less for the Kasai cover than the starting price at the auction as above. Do you collect Rhodesia and Eritrea postal history? By coincidence I lived in both countries during the 60s-70s. Actually at the time Eritrea was a province of Ethiopia - thus, my son, Tim who was born in Asmara is called our Ethiopian offspring.

_________________
Bill Clair


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 09:37:38 am 
Offline
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 16:21:27 pm
Posts: 30
Location: RI, USA
Here is a postal used cover from Sud-Kasai I just acquired from a forumer. It uses a souvenir sheet as postage.
Very interesting...
Thanks Bill!

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 15:34:49 pm 
Offline
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 03:29:56 am
Posts: 63
Location: Laval, Canada
If you ever consider selling I would offer you a good price...

paleograph


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 08:00:15 am 
Offline
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 04:44:01 am
Posts: 92
Location: Turnhout - Belgium
That's a nice collection Duarte. I have the Belgian Congo secessionist republics complete and must say, the Leopard issue of South Kasai is my favorite. On the South Kasai overprints on the flower series, they normaly read "Etat autonome du Sud Kasai" but I remember one time seeing flower series overprints reading "Etat minier Sud Kasai" instead of "Etat autonome". I don't know whether these were fake or proofs or whatever. Have you ever seen them?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 18:56:18 pm 
Offline
AQUA Shooting Star Board ADDICT!
AQUA Shooting Star Board ADDICT!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 16:58:23 pm
Posts: 696
Location: Bangalore City, India
I echo a similar concern as above - we know that Sud Kasai stamps were secessionist stamps printed by self-proclaimed faction, but are there deliberate errors and variations that were later also printed under the name of Sud Kasai?

I ask this because of such material, look at this Sud Kasai leopard set with Inverted Overprints - is this a genuine error while printing the original propaganda stamps released by the break-away faction or have they been just a philatelic reproduction by someone else altogether at a later point? Are there any catalogues that list these items and record/mention such overprint errors?
Image

_________________
to reflect on God's creation is very fruitful meditation, and to reflect on Man's beauty of a creation - stamps - is no less either!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 02:31:59 am 
Offline
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 03:29:56 am
Posts: 63
Location: Laval, Canada
Although the South Kasai stamps overprinted on Belgian Congo issues were all valid for postage, they were not sold within South Kasai. They were used mostly by philatelists who managed to buy them in Brussels and use them (or have them used) in South Kasai. They are relatively common on philatelic covers, and very rare on genuine, non-philatelic mail. The overprinted Lion issues (3 different overprints) are not listed in any catalogue and to my knowledge, nothing is known about their origin. To me, they are purely philatelic. Still, the high quality of the overprint hints at work done by a good printer, maybe Courvoisier who had printed the basic issue. This could mean that they had been ordered by the South Kasai autorities but remained unissued. Inverted overprints like the ones you have are decidedly rare. Were they made on purpose ? Who is to say, 50 years later...

The basic lion issue was widely used in South Kasai during the few months when South Kasai was autonomous. The Kalonji issue on genuine postally used cover is decidedly rare. I saw only 2 copies on the Kalonji souvenir sheet genuinely used on cover over the past 50 years, one on part of a parcel wrapper to the U.S.A., the other (in my collection) on a missionary letter to the U.S.A.

The Etat Minier overprint is contemporary because I have one copy used on cover in the early 1960's. It can be safely assumed that it is an essay.

Around 2005, Bruce Henderson of New Zealand produced a fake set of South Kasai stamps, showing local scenes and animals.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 03:50:50 am 
Offline
AQUA Shooting Star Board ADDICT!
AQUA Shooting Star Board ADDICT!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 16:58:23 pm
Posts: 696
Location: Bangalore City, India
Thanks for sharing all the information, the overprint reads 'pour les rapatries' meaning 'for returnees'?

_________________
to reflect on God's creation is very fruitful meditation, and to reflect on Man's beauty of a creation - stamps - is no less either!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 05:31:08 am 
Offline
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 03:29:56 am
Posts: 63
Location: Laval, Canada
Yes, it means "for the returnees". The other 2 overprints are for the refugees and the world anti-malaria campaign.

Here is a link to a French-language article that I wrote about the South Kasai stamps for the magazine Philatélie-Québec:

http://www.philateliequebec.com/Numeros ... vue292.pdf


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 06:03:15 am 
Offline
AQUA Shooting Star Board ADDICT!
AQUA Shooting Star Board ADDICT!
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 16:58:23 pm
Posts: 696
Location: Bangalore City, India
Thank you, I have saved the pdf file of the magazine, it would take some effort to figure out the article in French for me, but I guess it's worth it :D

_________________
to reflect on God's creation is very fruitful meditation, and to reflect on Man's beauty of a creation - stamps - is no less either!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 06:50:42 am 
Offline
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 03:29:56 am
Posts: 63
Location: Laval, Canada
Oops ! One should never rely on one's memory ! I wrote that one of the overprints was for the refugees, actually it is for the orphans, "pour les orphelins". Sorry...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 07:20:47 am 
Offline
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 07:00:24 am
Posts: 1940
Location: Malta
Could the South African homelands (Bophuthatswana, Ciskei, Transkei, Venda) and the Republic of Somaliland be considered as secessionist states?

I found this several websites on stamps of these states:

Biafra:
Stamps - http://www.africafederation.net/Biafra_Stamps.htm
Banknotes - http://www.africafederation.net/Biafra_Notes.htm
from Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postage_stamps_and_postal_history_of_Biafra

Cabinda:
Stamps - http://www.cabinda.net/Stamps.htm
Coins - http://www.africastamps.org/Coin_Cabinda.htm

Katanga:
http://www.africafederation.net/Katanga_Stamps.htm

South Kasai:
http://www.africafederation.net/Autonomous%20State%20of%20South%20Kasai.htm

_________________
My wantlist for Malta Revenues


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 08:17:58 am 
Offline
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 03:29:56 am
Posts: 63
Location: Laval, Canada
The South African homeland states did not secede, the were "seceded" unilaterally by South Africa. The international community did not recognize South Africa's decision to create these homelands and eventually they were merged back peacefully into South Africa. They did exist for a few years as "independant" states, issued stamps that were postally valid and as such, they are interesting.

Cabinda has a secessionist movement, but the Angolan government holds the Province of Cabinda firmly. The stamps purportedly issued by, or for Cabinda are propaganda labels. Somalia is a different story. The country has been in total chaos for many years. The areas called Puntland and Somaliland, among others, have proclaimed their independance and enjoy a certain degree of autonomy. But most stamps bearing their names are "illegals" and they are not issued by the local aithorities and they have no postal validity. On the other hand, most of the stamps of Biafra, Katanga and South Kasai were postally valid and performed postal duty.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 08:31:15 am 
Offline
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 07:00:24 am
Posts: 1940
Location: Malta
How is this cover (from the link in my earlier post) with Cabinda stamps used in Barbados? Appearantly it's paquebot (and philatelic) but how come there are no markings saying the stamp is invalid or something of that sort?

Image

_________________
My wantlist for Malta Revenues


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 09:12:20 am 
Offline
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 21:51:46 pm
Posts: 10081
Location: Norfolk, England
HalfpennyYellow wrote:
How is this cover (from the link in my earlier post) with Cabinda stamps used in Barbados? Appearantly it's paquebot (and philatelic) but how come there are no markings saying the stamp is invalid or something of that sort?

Image

Totally invalid because the stamp should have been from the country the ship was registered in.

_________________
Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics GB stamps info: http://www.norphil.co.uk - also /catalog for our ecommerce site, blog.norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk and Ian_norvic on twitter


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 09:20:30 am 
Offline
I was online for Post Number 3 MILLION!
I was online for Post Number 3 MILLION!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 15:25:14 pm
Posts: 25799
Location: Lara, Victoria, Australia
paleograph wrote:
Cabinda has a secessionist movement, but the Angolan government holds the Province of Cabinda firmly. The stamps purportedly issued by, or for Cabinda are propaganda labels.


We had a member here a while back who called himself Cabinda, and whose name according to his posts was Mangovo Nogyo. Mangovo was actually located in the UK.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=25413&p=1653949

Norm

_________________
Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 09:26:56 am 
Offline
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 03:29:56 am
Posts: 63
Location: Laval, Canada
Call it "oversight" from the postal authorities, which is common. I posted elsewhere on this forum covers that made it through the post with stamps from Occussi-Ambeno, Tibet, Hutt River Province Principality, the UNITA, Thomond, Sealand... The fact that it made it through the post does not make it postally valid, but it is an interesting conversation piece and a keepsakes for anyone interested in the postal history of Angola, Cabinda or Portuguese Congo...

Some would call it "rubbish", but I say: if you know what it is and you wish to collect it, then do ! You won't win a gold at the international level, but you will enjoy your collection !


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 02:29:41 am 
Offline
Senior Member Advanced Stamp Board Guru
Senior Member Advanced Stamp Board Guru
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 20:03:40 pm
Posts: 114
Location: Israel
Who is to say what is an "official" stamp.
Katanga, South Kasai, Biafra, Transkei, Venda, Bophuthatswana, Ciskei, Rhodesia (Unilateral Declaration of Independence), none of them recognised states, none with UPU recognition, but their stamps were used on international mail.
Is it the listing in a catalogue that make them OK?
If so, what catalogue - Scott, SG, Michel, Yvert, Zumsteim - the lot or a majority?
If the claim is that they all have/had a "government", then so do Sahara, Somaliland, Puntland, UNITA.
Just where does the line get drawn?

Ralph


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 02:59:54 am 
Offline
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
I was online for our Birthday Number 5!
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 07:00:24 am
Posts: 1940
Location: Malta
member389845 wrote:
...Katanga, South Kasai, Biafra, Transkei, Venda, Bophuthatswana, Ciskei, Rhodesia (Unilateral Declaration of Independence)...

SG lists all of them, although the 'propaganda' stamps of Biafra, Katanga and South Kasai are not listed. Technically they were independent states for a period of time - on the other hand Cabinda was never independent (as mentioned earlier in this thread).

As the South African homelands (Ciskei etc.), Biafra and Rhodesia came out of British Commonwealth nations, there is some demand for them and they are listed in Commonwealth catalogues.

_________________
My wantlist for Malta Revenues


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 04:34:03 am 
Offline
RED Shooting Star Posting MANIAC!
RED Shooting Star Posting MANIAC!
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 03:33:37 am
Posts: 1460
Location: Essex, England
Is it not also an issue of whether there was actual postage use? Rhodesia for example in the UDI period, although a 'rebel' state had lots of post in and out of the country and had an efficient internal postal system. And lasted 1965-1980. (I note Rhodesia for a brief period - 2 years?- was independent after the Rhodesia Nyasaland confederation and before UDI.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 05:13:00 am 
Offline
Senior Member Advanced Stamp Board Guru
Senior Member Advanced Stamp Board Guru
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 20:03:40 pm
Posts: 114
Location: Israel
I can certainly understand your way of thought on this, but......for example why would a little state like Ajman (I know it's not in Africa) issue 3,000 stamps in less than 10 years? I'm sure that 95% of thieir material never even saw the Gulf, never mind being used philatelicaly. Yet they are in the catalogue (Michel at least), so they are official or not?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 05:35:16 am 
Offline
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 03:29:56 am
Posts: 63
Location: Laval, Canada
If I may butt in, I would say: of course, they are, or at least most of them are. The criteria should be: is there a government, is there a postal service, will the stamps carry a letter throughout the world ? If the answer is yes, it matters not whether the government is recognized (think of the Turkish Federated State of Cyprus, or Nagorno-Karabakh), or whether the stamps are printed and distributed by an outside agency. If you stick it unto a letter and you drop the letter in a mailbox in the country, will it be carried to its destination, either because the issuing country is a member of the U.P.U, or because it has an agreement with a complacent neighbour ? If yes, it qualifies as a postage stamp.

Should you collect it ? That will be your own personal decision based on your own personal criteria. Some members of this Board will collect only the classics of yesterday, some will collect topicals, or plate blocks, or First Day Covers, some like me will collect the unusual, what counts is that you should know the exact status of what you are buying. Be informed. And enjoy !


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 05:59:26 am 
Offline
Senior Member Advanced Stamp Board Guru
Senior Member Advanced Stamp Board Guru
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2011 20:03:40 pm
Posts: 114
Location: Israel
BY the way, during the time of Rhodesian UDI I was living in England and received a letter from there. I had to pay the postage due fees as the GPO did not accept the stamps on the letter as legal. However, the catalogues accept them.
I know that this is not Africa, but using the criteria that it is a legal postage stamp if a complacent neighbour allows it through means that the State of Oman and Dhufar stamps are legal, because Jordan allowed their passage.
I gave up collecting official countries years ago because I found this material and the stories behind it a great deal more interesting.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 06:27:36 am 
Offline
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 03:29:56 am
Posts: 63
Location: Laval, Canada
The case of Oman and Dhufar is different: there was no post office in the so-called "State of Oman", nor in the "Green Mountain Principality" (a "dependency" of the "State of Oman") or in Dhufar where you could drop a letter franked with their stamps. But I agree that they are collectible because the State of Oman and Green Mountain Principality stamps had postal validity, although it was confined to the personal use of Tadros and his friends... As to Dhufar, only the first issue did postal duty, and only on the day of issue. Thanks to Joachim, we know a lot more about these issues.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 06:39:02 am 
Offline
RED Shooting Star Posting MANIAC!
RED Shooting Star Posting MANIAC!
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 03:33:37 am
Posts: 1460
Location: Essex, England
Oman; at the time ( I may be wrong Joachim) I think Oman was not a member of the UPU and perhaps not of the APU. So, in that case, the issue of 'legal' becomes interesting.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2012 06:41:56 am 
Offline
RED Shooting Star Posting MANIAC!
RED Shooting Star Posting MANIAC!
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 03:33:37 am
Posts: 1460
Location: Essex, England
' Rhodesian UDI I was living in England and received a letter from there. I had to pay the postage due fees as the GPO did not accept the stamps'

Two aspects of Rhodesian UDI--

one, the UK only 'banned' any stamps with the word 'independence'; they allowed all others for a while.
two, later they banned the lot.

I can check details, but I think the principle is important first.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 59 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Iggy, ivqii, wd40 and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


A powerful Google Custom Search Engine for JUST This Site

 

 

Loading
 
          

Click For Our Newest Issues

Click for our Current Auction

Internet Auctions-Buy & Sell Stamps

Melbourne 2013 - May 10-15

        

 
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.259s | 16 Queries | GZIP : On ]