Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

Delcampe is the largest stamp only auction site on earth, and have millions of stamp lots listed up.

Unlike ebay they do seem interested in what collectors think, and they do take action of cons, crooks and forgers when they learn of it.

They have announced a logical new policy today re all the jam label rip-off "labels" that until now pose as stamps on there and ebay.

Glen

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Dear members, dear Philatelists,

We have taken an important ethical decision concerning the sale of certain labels without any postage value, printed by companies without any ties to postal administrations.

Currently, the sale of these fantasy labels (also known as "cinderellas" or "bogus stamps") is tolerated on our website Delcampe.net, as long as their nature is clearly mentioned in the title.

However, we would like to clear things up since many different types of labels exist, ranging from illegal issues to very collected, private, legal issues.

Fantasy labels are in fact labels which were not issued by postal authorities, contrary to postage stamps ! We have divided these labels into two categories :

1. The classic labels (Revenue stamps, exhibitions, promotion of tourism, charities, …),

2. Modern fantasy printings aimed at philatelists (especially topical stamp collectors).
It's the second category which we are interested in...This category is divided in the following subcategories:

2.1. Labels bearing the name of a place (country, region) which never existed.
2.2. Labels bearing the name of a place (country, region) which exists or has existed, but has never issued postage stamps.
2.3. Labels bearing the name of a place (country, region) which exists or has existed and issues or has issued postage stamps.

The most annoying thing about these labels is that :

• They can be sold without the buyer knowing that they are in fact not postage stamps ;

• They can go against the rights of people, countries, companies or organisations (illegal use of logos, country name, photographs, illustrations, …)

Adaptation of the Terms and Conditions

Here are the changes we foresee for the sale of these modern fantasy labels :

• Labels infringing the rights of third parties are obviously prohibited on Delcampe.net. We are preparing a rights protection program for the website, which will take off in the future.

• Other labels will be tolerated insofar as the seller clearly indicates the word "LABEL", in capital letters at the beginning of the title. The seller will also exclusively need to place his sale in the following category: "Stamps > Topics > Fantasy labels".

The Delcampe Terms and Conditions have been adapted and from now on they clearly precise what is forbidden, for example:

• Labels bearing logos, illustrations, photographs belonging to third parties who have not given their approval ;
• Labels which seem to have been issued, illegally, by an existing place (country or region), whether or not this place issues postage stamps.

Click here or on the link at the bottom of each website page to consult the "Delcampe Terms and Conditions"

(Chapter 4.1.3 Questionable items)

We would like to make an appeal to our members who find this project important. We are looking for member-moderators who might feel concerned by the presence of these labels on the website and who, thanks to their competence, moderation and good judgement would like to manage these fantasy labels by putting them into the appropriate category and removing any illegal labels from the website. Candidatures can be sent to info@delcampe.com.

We think that these changes will contribute to a healthier website for all of our members, whether they be in favour of fantasy labels or not (legal issues only !).

We thank you in advance and we wish you excellent sales and purchases (of stamps or labels) on Delcampe.net.

Your Delcampe.net Team

Just received this email also

Very logical and reasonable way to deal with this issue.

It is excellent the way Delcampe responds to collectors needs.

I got the same email yesterday. Yea for Delcampe!!

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Jim M.

However - this is a mammoth task as a huge number of topical issues fall under this fake/bogus category.

I am sure an awful lot of vendors are going to create as big a stink as they can when their stuff gets moved because an awful lot of money is involved and there are vested interests who want to protect their revenue streams from having such material sidelined.

These fake issues do stamp collecting a great disservice so Delcampe should be applauded for the actions they are taking.

toschka - for those like you passionate about this issue, Delcampe want to hear from Volunteers to keep their site clear -

Excellent idea!

The more who volunteer the merrier! And the quicker the categories on Delcampe can be cleaned up and the dubious issues consigned to the slots where they should be.

For those who sell/buy these issues it is worth noting they are not banned - just being moved from the postage stamp sections where they clog the listings up with page upon page of often gaudy items with no postal validity.

Any organization is only as good as the man at the top.

Their success is a direct result of good leadership through listening to their client base, and Seb Delcampe does that very well

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Tony

Well done Seb for keeping collecting as clean as possible.

Regretably, some of there people may simply move to eBay and peddle their wares there.

Norm

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Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

I suppose some may move onto Ebay - but to shift big quantities they will need to pay big bucks on Ebay.

Also with the increased traffic on Ebay for this material there will be a corresponding increase in complaints as people realise they have been ripped off - when they look in whatever catalogue they use and cannot find Dagestan, Nagaland or whatever listed they will become quite vociferous in their moaning about being ripped off.

If enough complain even Ebay will start to take notice as some will complain to Trading Standards and other official bodies and some will drag in the consumer rip off expose programmes on TV and the like.

These people get away with it because of inertia by those that regulate - get rid of the inertia and hopefully action takes place.

Probably all wishful thinking!

The problem with identifying what an " Illegal " stamp is and what are officially authorised stamps can be a bit tricky as some officially authorised issues (mainly from 3rd. world countries) look very similar and may have designs which are aimed at the Thematic market.

There is a list produced by the WADP of the UPU which states which stamps have been authorised but the list is not worldwide and only those countries that pay for the authorisation have their stamps listed which costs 50 swiss francs per stamp.

There are some countries that are not included and only those that have paid up to date have their stamps included and some are years behind in their payments.

Of course a better list would have been a list of known " Illegals " instead of known legals but it is too late now for the UPU to do that although someone one or some organisation could do it. It has been done for a few countries by people interested in a particular country.

The " Illegals " have been banned from being sold at Exhibitions under the Auspices of the FIP.

I do not know if they are being sold at other Exhibitions but I have always reported to the Exhibition Committees whenever I see any being sold at Exhibitions.

David B.

The UPU also has a list on its website of circulars which it has issued on this subject.

They provide some details from the countries which have complained about what the UPU calls illegals which will be a help. But that goes only so far and no pictures are included.

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Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics GB stamps info: http://www.norphil.co.uk - also /catalog for our ecommerce site, blog.norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk and Ian_norvic on twitter

The problem is not so much 'illegals' where this means fake stamps produced bearing a country's name but the myriads of issues for entities that have never issued postage stamps - the Russian republics, enclaves and islands as an example.

These issues are sold often as local issues when they have been nowhere near these entities. I'm sure I could print nice colourful labels depicting every popular topic under the sun using the name 'Wycombe Republic' and sell tons of them before being clobbered.

With many topical collectors they have no idea about the countries depicted on the stamps they collect so 'Wycombe Republic' would raise no eyebrows for many.

I travel quite widely particularly in Africa and I have lived in the Middle east for many years and I found it amazing how many people had never heard of Kuwait and this was when the place was in the news during and after the Iraqi invasion period.

Recently I returned from Namibia and again I was amazed at how many people had never heard of the place.

So it is hardly surprising that good money goes on colourful labels from Batum, Nagaland and the like as most don't have a clue they are not countries that issue stamps. Ignorance is a wonderful thing and plays straight into the hands of the unscrupulous.

We are a VISUAL board .. can somenoe post some scans of the type of labels that are targeted here please?

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Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

Here are some recently moved into the Delcampe fantasy section:

http://stamps.delcampe.net/list.php?lan ... cription=N

Anything that isn't a postage stamp? - I'm sure you can find some yourself.

It could be misleading for anybody to put up examples which might fall under Delcampe's new rules without being sure.

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Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics GB stamps info: http://www.norphil.co.uk - also /catalog for our ecommerce site, blog.norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk and Ian_norvic on twitter

Note there are over 1,000 of these Nagaland labels listed alone - most previously clogging up the topical sections masquerading as postage stamps.

Then take all the ex-Russian republics, automous regions, islands, cities, enclaves and the like that have had labels printed in their names multiply the above figure by at least 100 and you will realise how much of this stuff is floating around!

Thanks for your super helpful input Ian.

It is 2.30am here and I have other things to do odd as it may seem to some.

Lets have some photos please folks.

Here are a few more for your delectation:

http://stamps.delcampe.net/list.php?lan ... cription=N

Oh well, I suppose I've got nothing better to do than search through Stampboards for images that are already here on other Illegals threads:




and the pages from a catalogue:


and more





In case examples from just one thread is not sufficient:






[/quote]

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Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics GB stamps info: http://www.norphil.co.uk - also /catalog for our ecommerce site, blog.norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk and Ian_norvic on twitter

Photos in this thread please so they will be here forever - they might vanish in a week from Delcampe.

This new policy of theirs is all well and good, but when they have an employee by the name of Philippe who proclaims himself as Judge, Jury and Executioner with no possibility of Appeal or Repeal then they have a problem.

When he closed my account down for a week a month or so ago, he demanded that I clean-up my site.

He knew in advance, by not allowing me to enter my site, that I would not be able to do this, so he later on went ahead with his planned attack on me claiming that I had not do what he demanded.

He is a disgrace to a very creditable company.

Great new policy. If it were true and honest.

Just to show you and them how biased they are against certain sellers who try to prove to them that their ways are not quite fair, here are a few items which according to them should not be on their site, but were (at least 5 minutes ago)
Abkhazia 231, Gagauzia 61, PMR 138, Dagestan 148, Komi 188, Kalmykia 49.

Of course there are many other such as all Somalia issues since 1995, and any Somaliland items since 1961.

Have you reported these items you mention to Delcampe?

If not, stop posing here about it.

They have a policy, and you clearly fell foul of it - presumably for listing illegal issues.

Take it up with Delcampe if you see similar material being offered by others.

Admin

Why do you think I haven't?

Because you are ranting about it here, offering no sellers, no photos, no lot numbers, and no indication that you have complained.

We have no crystal ball.

stampboards is not a venue for banned Delcampe sellers to rant against their MOST sensible polices.

ANYONE selling this utter worthless illegal cr*p should be stopped, and the more that are, the more I approve.

Go list up some real stamps, and you may find your account is not banned - just a thought?

Admin

Hello Admin,

This is perfectly *exact*

Thanks, Seb Delcampe

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Visit Delcampe's Online Stamps Auctions, no listing fee

Sir,

Your account has been closed only because of yourself. I think should not complain.

Everyday, there are more than 100,000 new items listed on Delcampe. Of course, sometime illegal ones. But we do our utmost to keep the site clean, and we react to reported items.

Seb Delcampe

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Visit Delcampe's Online Stamps Auctions, no listing fee

It should be noted that these fake /illegal stamps don't just fall from the sky. I have been to five different stamp auction firms and some 10 different auctions in the past 2 years and out of this number three different firms not only include them in the large bulk lots they have at the end of the auction .But at some you can find lots that have tens of thousands in full sheets still in pads.So everyone is against them but support the firms that are part of the supply chain.

Seb, I can agree that is definitely the case. I recently reported an item (fake overprint) and within 2 days I had an email from one of your staff confirming that the item had been removed and the seller warned.

Decisive action and clear feedback to the originator of the complaint are two things that Ebay could definitely learn from.

Thank you to all at Delcampe - and keep up the good work.

I am posting this in the hope that Sebastien Delcampe is still following this thread. Let me say that I do appreciate the efforts made by Delcampe to keep the auction site clean and free from scams and forgeries.

I know this is a very difficult job and it is not always easy to draw the line, despite the guidelines outlined by Delcampe in this thread. Early November 2012 Delcampe has apparently banned all postally used State of Oman covers as well as State of Oman labels.

I do not think it is appropriate to ban postally used covers. The ones in question were sent by the postal agency of the exiled Imam of Oman's organisation (or "government in exile") to dealers and journalists world-wide. Covers fabricated by Youssuf S. Tadros of Middle East Stamps in Beirut with State of Oman stamps were accepted by post offices in Baghdad (1968), Amman (1968-1971) and Damascus (1972) and mailed from there to destinations all over the world. There was nothing illegal about this, everything was done in accordance with UPU and Arab Postal Union regulations. The covers haveseen genuine postal use, no matter what one thinks about the political and commercial motives behind these issues. The only "lie" was that the covers did not come from Oman and then went through Baghdad/Amman/Damascus in transit - they originated there.

For more information in my study on the official enveloped used for these mailings:

http://www.lulu.com/gb/en/shop/joachim- ... 35362.html

The State of Oman affair is an interesting piece of political and philatelic history, and, yes it was a scam in a way. But I would not have been able to study and document this affair if I had not been able to buy original material on auction websites.

I have written several articles for philatelic magazines between 1969 and 1972 when these "stamps" were put on sale, informing and warning collectors not to mistake these labels for stamps, especially not for the stamps of Muscat & Oman / Sultante of Oman. I have been in touch with the Sultanate's PTT authorities then and adised them to send a warning to the UPU once the had joined.

But this is all history now. The original agent for these "stamps", Youssuf Tadros, stopped issuing them in 1972 when he could no longer produce postally used covers. Clive Feigenbaum carried on printing State of Oman and Dhufar labels until 1986.

By now, all these people are dead. The ones selling the labels on auction sites etc. are not those who invented the scam and printed the labels to make money. They are dealers and collectors like you and me who bought them. They may not be stamps in everybody's definition, but they are collectable items. There is a market for them, and my observation is, that (apart perhaps from a few topical collectors) the buyers know the story behind the labels and buy them in full knowledge of what they really are. If anyone is in doubt, he will find a note as to the status of these labels in SG, Scott or Michel - he does not need to have read any of my ephemeral writings.

The market for State of Oman labels is actually so good that some really bad guys have started to produce forgeries or new varieties of them now, 26 years after the notorious Clive Feigenbaum produced the last of them in 1986! I wish Delcampe would ban these forgeries and not the original labels!

Sebastien, I hope Delcampe will reconsider their ban at least with regard to postally used State of Oman covers, or even allow the sale of the labels themselves if properly described as labels or bogus.

Joachim Düster