Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

I see I forgot to comment on these last night: I do apologise.

The Duttia all look quite OK - unlike some Duttia items appearing elsewhere on this page Yours are all fairly modest items, but if you like them, you could go on to build a nice representative collection of the later period of Duttia without having to sell the rest of the family into White Slavery. Early Duttia is another matter entirely: it includes some of the very priciest stamps among the Uglies.

Do remember, by the way, that all your Duttia are unused. The blue device is a control mark that was applied to all stamps before they were sold, as a guarantee of genuineness. As you might guess from the Gibbons prices, used are scarce:



Your Faridkot, on the other hand, are all posthumous creations, I'm afraid. When the Faridkot State Post Office was folded into the British Indian in 1885, there was still plenty of demand for the earlier issues. Collectors in 1885 were a bit less discriminating than they are today, and they were happy to take whatever Faridkot chose to sell them, including prettied up versions of the original 1 Folus and 1 Paisa stamps



and



The square (½ Anna) types never were issued for postal use at all. However, the Faridkot authorities were happy to sell them if anyone wanted them.

Member Bob Stanley has quite an impressive collection of these things, and he contributed a detailed study of them, and of the forgeries of them (true!), to the Naughty Uglies ... thread.

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

Dear tonymacg, Ikanek & all !!

What can I say but WOW!

That’s once, for your kindness…twice, for your knowledge and thirdly for your patience, time and generosity of spirit.

I’ve ordered my book, as Maturin kindly suggested - and am now going back to re-read your comments and commit them all to memory (I wish!) Actually, I’m going back to re-read your comments, to see if I can manage to formulate an intelligent sounding question on the subject of Uglies for my next posting…..Don’t hold your breath guys !
I feel somewhat of a ‘user’ asking for advice and giving nothing in return…I’m afraid stamps are not my subject, as is only too obvious! I only wish I could return the kindness somehow.
Do your very informative responses mean, that when I return home at the end of the working week, I won’t be ‘pushing my luck’ if I post more ‘Uglies’…? I do have more, quite a lot more.
I will include the larger scan of the ‘Bussahir ¼ Anna’ with other Bussahir stamps, if that’s ok?

One last thing - To dear tonymacg…

‘…selling the family into White Slavery...’

Was something, to date, I hadn’t considered - however, as you mention it and having given it a bit of thought…..I do, indeed, think I can see some possibilities !

Thank you again – I’m off to the ‘Naughty Uglies’

Londonbarbara

Why do you think tonymacg lives alone, other than for a cat (you haven't sold the cat yet, have you Tony??)? He could put you in touch with any number of white slavers.

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Peter
Hawthorn - AFL Premiers 1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008.

Is the overprint on this Cochin stamp qualifies for double overprint





opkedia

Peter (and Londonbarbara, in case that ratbag PeterS has misled you), I lead a life of very nearly monastic purity. And no: I haven't sold off the cat yet. Though on the odd occasion when I get carried away with the auctions, she has had to go out and find her own dinner ... because I've eaten hers. An occasional dash of austerity does wonders for the soul.

Londonbarbara, post your Uglies away to your heart's content. If you've identified them, and you think they might be of interest, let us see them. If you haven't been able to identify them, post them up, and we'll have a look at them for you. You and I appreciate their beauty, even if some - and I name no names, PeterS - don't.

Bussahir is a particularly tricky State. There are lots of remainders, which weren't issued during the short life of the post office, and reprints, made after the post office closed: at a wild guess, ten of these to every one completely legitimate stamp. However, your stamp looks as if it just might squeak in. So let us see it!

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

I rather doubt that this is a double overprint. The words 'Eight Pies' might look doubled, but they do often have that appearance. I wonder if the type might have been rather loose, so that it shook when it was applied to the stamp. The figure '8' is conclusive, though. I can't see any indication that it is doubled.

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

Certainly not...its a jump print which is fairly common for these typeset surcharges,the same time your stamp qualifies for a constant variety "horizontal bar under numeral "8"

George

A number of things turned up from auctions during my recent holiday on Mars, and I've only now got around to (very slowly) inspecting them. I particularly like this Alwar SG 3 cover





Pity the stamp isn't tied, but I've noticed quite a few copies of SG 3 with equally socked-on-the-nose cancellations. This is for Ramgarh, with an undecipherable date - probably 1? February 1900. The CDS on the front must be of Alwar Town, 16 February 1900.

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

This is never a part of an imperf pair but show ample margings to be qualified for a top margin imperf
Electro No 18 from Setting IV where this electro comes at R -1/5
George

Bought a bunch of S.G. Travancore Anchel O1 hoping for one of the better varities no luck with that.
Did end up with various shades, broken letters and shaved letters.
This one particularily caught my attention as I thought there a smudge between the two and pies worth keeping for that.
However under closer scrutiny it appears that there is a numeral two inverted between the two words on the bottom stamp very strange.

Could we have a high resolution scan of the affected area between the TWO and the PIES? As these surcharges were type-set, I can imagine - theoretically, at least - how an inverted '2' might have turned up there.

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

Think this shows it better.

Certainly looks like an inverted '2'!

A possible explanation is that the quad separating the TWO and PIES went missing and had to be replaced. A worn down '2' was used instead, in the expectation that it wouldn't print anyway. Your copy being very well-inked might have brought up the latent '2'. On the other hand, it might always have been present at that position in the forme, and for some reason, it has shown up on your copy.

On the other hand, it may simply be caused by a freakish accumulation of ink on an otherwise harmless quad. It would then be a once-off occurrence.

I've looked over my copies of the TWO PIES surcharges, and couldn't find anything like this. I did notice that there seems to be some slight variation in the spacing between the TWO and the PIES, though.

What do others think about this phantom '2'?

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

Yes, it indeed looks like an inverted 2. And to add more its fount is in good agreement with fount used for 3 annas and 6 annas stamps.
Certainly very interesting variety which I don´t have in my Travancore-Cochin collection.

I agree with Ikanek: the '2' certainly looks like a companion to the '3' and '7' on the high value surcharges. That makes me lean towards the idea that a spare '2' was used to replace a missing quad between the 'TWO' and 'PIES'. If that was so, it should make it a listable, and highly desirable, variety I think.

As the phantom '2' raises technical printing problems, it might be worth starting a separate thread for it in You ask the questions ....

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

A worn-down "2" used as a quad would indicate to me that there was shortage of quads. The fact that there are differences between the spacing (different quads) between the words "TWO PIES" could support that there was a shortage.

On the other hand, the "2" appears to be a slightly larger font than used for the "TWO PIES." It extends above and below the adjacent "O" and "P."

From the little I know about movable type, isn't it impossible for a larger font (or any font for that matter) to extend below the others since they are assembled on a metal plate?

EDIT: I just remembered that the metal plate that holds the type is called a chase.

Maptrekker, I guess a solution to the problem of the size of the '2' could be the size of the backing wood or metal. If different font sizes were mounted on backing of the same size, it could be possible to have used the outsized '2' without disturbing the rest of the overprint forme.

The Travancore printers always seem to have been a bit cavalier in their overprinting. Look at the number of inverted 'O's and 'S's in the On S S overprints. They probably did run short of quads (if the quad replacement theory is right), but it's not impossible that they pressed a '2' into service simply because it happened to be handy.

In any case, this must have been a very short-lived expedient, since apparently it's escaped notice until now. Maybe the size difference did cause problems, and the '2' was quickly replaced with appropriate quads.

Here are examples of the large '3' used in the surcharges:



Looking at these, I wonder if the phantom '2' could be from an intermediate-sized font. I'm sorry I don't have the skills or software to overlay the '2' onto the 3s here.

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

I also notice that there is some extraneous red ink following the "S" in "PIES." It is also higher (or lower depending how you look at it) than the "TWO PIES."

Incorrectly set or loose quads? This would have been quickly and easily corrected with a few quick wacks with the rubber mallet.

You're right about the extraneous ink: I hadn't noticed it. That would reinforce the problems-with-the-quads theory.

I wonder, though, if the Travancore printers bothered with a rubber mallet ...

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

I don't believe a word of it !!!
Here we go...more Uglies....I'm still working on that clever question I was going to ask



Pause for breath ........

I hope everyone is well ....and Tonymacg's cat is not going hungry


another... I'm sure you're all bored of these by now



and another....


Thank you all again....
londonbarbara

Once again.... any more would seem rude !

londonbarbara

Probably nothing much of note among your Hyderabad, but you'll need to settle down and check the perforations on them. There are some scarcer to quite rare perforations listed in Gibbons ... if you have the patience And if you have more patience still, remember that all of these can, in theory at least, be found with compound perforations, and many do exist that way. Gibbons doesn't list them for some reason, but that doesn't mean they're worthless!

The two from Jhalawar give you the complete State, on a simplified basis, anyway. (The listed blue-green shade of the 1 Paisa is a bit elusive.) It's only of academic/specialist interest, but these stamps are normally found on laid paper with the laid lines running vertically; horizontal laid lines are scarcer, and there is a quite uncommon type, which Gibbons refers to in a footnote, on laid paper 'with the laid paper lines almost invisible'. Gibbons once listed these, and rated them quite highly.

The three Jind from the Feudatory State period are fairly common stamps, but very collectable as true Uglies, for all that. The JHIND overprints on India look to be of minimal value.

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

The Charkhari all look quite genuine - which is a great relief. Poor Charkhari has far, far more than its fair share of forgeries floating around. (What has Charkhari done to deserve such close attention?) Not hugely valuable, but they make a nice base from which to proceed with this very interesting little State.

The Duttia looks like a genuine SG 20.

I'll leave the Cochin experts to comment on your Cochin. I'm growing more interested in it, but there are others here far better qualified than I am. The last stamp - the 2 Pies - is probably of minimal value, but it's always worth checking the watermark on these. Gibbons doesn't list an inverted watermark on this, but that doesn't mean that there isn't one, just waiting to be found (I've promised the cat that, when I find one, I'll make her daydreams come true, and buy her half an hour to run wild in the local aquarium shop.)

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

Now you're talking!

The first, Bhor, stamp is without a doubt the ugliest of the Uglies, and so a great beauty - in my eyes at least There's a fine range of shades of shades of these, from pink to lake, and they can also be found on what looks very like a European wove paper, despite what Gibbons says.

The next ones are from Bundi, and here things start to get serious. The first is an SG 12, but the second appears to be an SG 2 - £55. The five stamps cancelled on piece are obviously a philatelic creation, but none the less delightful for that. It starts with two copies of SG 3, and then you have an SG 5 (£24), an SG 6 (£28) and (I think) an SG 8 (£120) - but a close-up of it would help. These Bundi Daggers have been a bit overshadowed by the Sacred Cows set



which followed them, but the Daggers are still quite popular, and that item of yours would grace any collection of them.

The next two rows are from Bussahir. With these, you almost always need close-up scans, so that the monogram overprints can be seen clearly. That said, the first two look OK: the 8 Annas would be SG 14 (£24) and the second SG 16a (£160). I can't see enough of the monograms on the second row to be sure. Once again, I'd need to see individual scans. Bussahir rather shot itself in the foot by releasing a deluge of reprints and remainders after the State PO closed in 1901, after a life of only 6 years. Some day, I'll do a proper survey of my collection, but at a rough guess, I'd have ten reprints/remainders for every one legitimate Bussahir stamp.

And after all that, the last stamp from Chamba (actually a near neighbour of Bussahir in the lower Himalayas) is very common, I'm afraid - minimal value.

Some very nice stuff there!

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

You have some nice stamps londonbarbara!

I hope you have more to show us

I agree with Tony, that piece with the Bundi daggers is most desirable.

Your collection appears to be free of the modern 'reprints' and forgeries that appear everywhere these days. Apart from the Faridkot and Bussahir reprints of course, but these almost have classic status themselves to my mind!

Did you form the collection yourself, or have you inherited or purchased it?

These are my uglies, complete with fakes. Nothing special but I like them







Cheers,

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The more I learn the less I know...

Hi Tony,

Read your message in the newbies section. I am glad there is a separate thread for the indian feudal states (which i am dealing with currently). i am a newbie in feudal states still trying to figure out the different paper types and fakes. i do have a good collection of some states. I do have some queries regarding some states which i am finding tough to identify, i shall post a scan very soon. Hope i can also find some good fellow collectors who will be willing to sell some spares. I see my collection more as a hobby than investment. For me stamp collection is something that keeps me occupied. Probably share my collection with budding collectors and inspire them (in the future).

Thanks for sharing poebes!

You do have a good spread there, and as you say, with the (inevitable ) few duds. But then, what collector of these stamps doesn't? We all do: and I see some old friends there.

You do have at least one very nice item there: that used Jasdan looks OK from the small scan, and has to be catalogued at somewhere on the right side of £200.

Also, as I said earlier today, do check the watermarks of your Cochin. Inverted watermarks are known to occur in those early issues, and even if Gibbons doesn't list one on a particular issue, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. All it means is that Gibbons haven't yet seen it.

And talking of Gibbons, they list the known (to Gibbons) perforating machines used on those Second Raja



types, but I can assure you that the list isn't complete. I have two varieties which aren't shown - and if even I have that many, there must be plenty more to be discovered. Alright: only of specialist interest. But it's rather nice to know you have something that even Gibbons isn't aware of

I see you're in Melbourne, too. If you ever need any help with the Uglies, and you can get across to Richmond, give me a call. I'll be delighted to assist if I can.

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

psphani, I'm really delighted to see you've come to this thread. The more those of us who love these issues talk together, and show what we have, the more we're all going to learn about them.

I started collecting the Uglies back around 1960. In those days, it was strictly a labour of love. The stamps were hard to find, but they weren't worth much anyway, so I hardly thought about their value. These days, they're more popular, and if (like me) you've got to the stage where you're chasing the rarities in many cases, you're talking serious money. Still, there are some States, like Jhalawar, that you can pursue in depth, and never break the bank - unless you must have a sheet of SG 1a on cover

Which States are your favourites? Member Stampwizards has done the definitive study of Alwar, and posted it here for posterity. It's hard to think of anything more you could possibly need to know about Alwar. I have a good collection of Barwani. Several members specialise in Cochin and Travancore/Travancore-Cochin, and so on. Do post some of your favourites - and if you have any questions, someone here may be able to help out.

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

Thanks for taking the time to respond Tony, I'm (pleasantly) surprised to know there's something of value in my 'uglies'. I purchased these without any knowledge a while ago because I really like the look of them. But then, nothing ventured nothing gained...

I may just take you up on your kind offer the next time I'm in Richmond.

Best regards, Phoebe.

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The more I learn the less I know...

Do call in if you have the time, phoebes. (I'm near the Ikea store, if you want to combine pleasures )

And do bring that Jasdan! As I said, it looks OK, but it would be nice to be more certain. Jasdan is so popular, it would be worth pretty near full catalogue. So if you paid any less than around $200 for that lot, you're laughing

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

Welcome to Uglies thread Londonbarbara , your Cochin seems to be beautiful ones especially the condition of the stamps, To the details 1st one appears to be SG-1a , but to be sure you need to confirm that the wmk is a large umbrella which appear as a part on individual stamps, and the wmk is hard to distinguish,
2nd stamp = SG 3 or 7, if it has a wmk small umbrella its SG7 otherwise SG3
3. SG - 11, printed on thin yellowish paper, wmk is small umbrella and appears in all directions.The paper is very thin compared to other issues and feels smooth and silky to touch
4. SG -12 1/2 puttan Green - Thin yellowish paper
5.SG 13 - 1 puttan Pink(deep shade of pink to be precise),thin yellowish paper
6. SG 14 - 2 Puttan Violet, thin yellowish paper
7. Again SG 11 - three pies on thin yellowish paper
8. SG 12 -1/2 puttan Green - Thin yellowish paper
9. SG 13d - 1 puttan in carmine red
10. This one is interesting, SG 14 - 2 Puttans from setting - 1 , Electro no:23 appearing in sheet position R - 1/2 . The full sheet for this issue was 12 stamps arranged in 2 rows horizontally and 6 columns vertically.later 12 more electros were prepared the sheet format was changed from 12 to 24. note the top selvedge with description"Cochin Two Puthen Stamps" (only "then stamps"is visible here) which proves this is from setting I
11. 1909. SG -22 , the provisional surcharge offers some nice varieties such as 3 different types of "2" , inverted surcharges,tete-beche pairs etc. Gibbons syas the issue exists only with wmk. sideways but I have a sheet with wmk is sideways inverted which seems to be scarce , eventhough Gibbons is not going to mention this its worth to collect
And the last one 1911. 2 pies stamp(SG 26) with portrait of Maharaja Ramavarma I, do look for another distinct shade of Coffee brown in this stamp

George

Here's the one with wmk. sideways inverted. Position R- 3/2 carries the scarce Type - 7b surcharge
George

I have also reached the stage where i have to spend big bucks to complete my collection. I have massed up a big collection of british india spending a lot of money. I am missing the very rare ones catalogued over 2000$ and few 1854 4 annas cut to square. So then i turned over to feudal states and been collecting one state every month. i am lagging behind in bamra, barwani, bundi, duttia and poonch. I am not saying i have completed the other states but they are quite a good lot. i just have very few of the states mentioned above and would like to gather more. Recently i got a good collection of duttia stamps, obviously the last series of stamps. I am finding it tough to identify the different SG numbers.

You're going to find it hard to acquire useful collections of most of these States: Bundi, Duttia and Poonch are popular - Bamra and Barwani less so. Still, there's more demand than available supply for most States, and the rarities tend to go for quite high percentages of Gibbons, even for the less popular States. (It's very easy to complete Rajpipla mint, say, but if you want even the 1 Pice on cover ... prices will start at around $1000, if you can find one for sale.)

Sorting out Duttia isn't so bad, as long as you work your way methodically through the Gibbons listing. Eliminate all the numbers a stamp can't be, and usually whatever remains is the correct identity for your stamp. If you're still unsure, post them here, and we'll see if we can identify them for you.

Lastly, are you a member of the India Study Circle? The ISC Handbooks are absolutely vital for tackling several of the States, and the journal - as GJ50 was complaining (or applauding?) - contains a great deal of additional information, too.

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

I'm having trouble taking all the information in guys ! but ever onwards and always gratefull for all your time and advice.

A few more, you will soon be sick of these and me, I'm sure



One more, perhaps (if you don't mind?)



Londonbarbara

To Peterh..
They are aquired whenever the opportunity arose over the last twenty years and all of them are from 'old collections'. I kept putting them away in suitcases over the years hoping one day to learn about them. That time has come !!!
Just to clarify....I started my 'sorting'with Uglies because I find them the most interesting and they will remain my favourites. Having said that...I only have the rest of the world to get though after that....bet it won't be half as much fun !

George....thank you so much for your detailed post...I've had to print it off so that I can study it ! Very, very kind of you, I truly appreciate it.

and tonymacg...what !!!! you mean there is no cat !
p.s. I like the aquarium idea...have been trying all day to arrange it for my cats as a treat....sadly, none of my local aquariums seem interested


Londonbarbara

Update on this discussion -

I sent both scans to Dr.Kinns - on the second example (with long "O") he was of the opinion that it was a "crude forgery". Stanley Luiz's book Stamps of Cochin does list SLO23c as "Second print run variety with long O and capital P" but I cant consider this as definitive. On the first example - he said it was certainly more interesting but would have to look at the actual stamp in detail before he could come to a conclusion on the genuine-ness or commenting further.

I'll leave comments on your Cochin, Hyderabad and Indore to the other members here who specialise in these States, and suggest you look at this thread http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=16831 on the Alwar. On your three Charkhari stamps, you might like to have a look at this little thread http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=5149 where I discussed the set these stamps come from.

Now where does that leave us?

Your Idar stamp looks like the emerald printing, SG 1b of 1941. This is a sheet of SG 1b:



How does it compare with yours?

I've already discussed Bussahir, Jind and Jhalawar. Your Soruth are all quite common, I'm afraid, and I can't comment on the Nepal - except to say that I think it's quite common also. The Duttia is a nice example of SG 19b (£4.50).

I admit I'm always very uncertain about the shades of the Sirmoor 1 Anna, so I won't try to identify it. The Elephants are a bit over-valued in Gibbons, I think, although it is unusually difficult to find really fine examples of any of the Waterlow printings of Sirmoor, perhaps because of the small perforation holes. These stamps often seem to have perforation defects.

The Nandgaon looks like an SG O4 (£7). There were many settings of these stamps, and I've always wanted to take Nandgaon up more seriously, but you simply can't find the complete sheets of the stamps that you'd need to specialise properly.

The Jaipur stamps are quite common, I'm afraid.

There were also many settings of the Dhar stamps at the very end. They were printed in sheets of 10,





and each stamp in the sheet is distinctive, so if you have the patience, you can work out the position on the sheet, and the Setting for single stamps.

The Convention States stamps aren't really my cup of tea, but I don't see anything startling there. I will say that I've always been surprised by Gibbons' pricing of the Patiala 1 Rupee stamp: £3.25 mint and only 65p used. Patiala was a big and important State, but it can't have had all that much use for such a high value stamp 110-120 years ago. After all, the basic letter rate was ½ Anna, and there were 16 Annas to the rupee.

I hope this and the comments of other members have whetted your appetite further for the Uglies. They really are quite endlessly entertaining, and there's always something new to be found. Just see the discussion of those Cochin 10 Pies surcharges immediately above. The basic stamp is common enough, but dig down a bit ...

Incidentally, it's really disappointing that your local aquariums don't want to come to your cat's party. Very short-sighted, I must say. Why, once the word got around the neighbourhood of how much your cat had enjoyed its birthday party, I'm sure there'd be plenty of other cat owners wanting to do the same for theirs, too. (Though mine, since turning 3 a few months ago, seems to have decided to stop tormenting and eating other animals. She now brings them into the flat and lets them loose. I've had to release a blackbird, a mouse and countless lizards - and squash two spiders - recently.)

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

Hello Tony

Your views about these 4 stamps



Regards

_________________
Beauty Lies In the Eyes of the Beholder.

Bad news, I'm afraid, Mukulgarga: they all have forged postmarks.

I think the Bussahir were genuine (although the scans seem a bit colour-saturated), but the cancellations certainly aren't. This is a genuine Bussahir CDS:



They also exist for Rorhu and Chini, though you could probably multiply the Gibbons used price by ten for a clear legible strike of either.

The Poonch stamp might have been genuine, but again, the cancellation isn't. The earliest cancellations are only found on the first few issues, and look like this:



This was fairly soon replaced by the distinctive 'boxes within boxes' cancellation:



I'm surprised this particular forger didn't pick up that point. Even many of the forgers of the basic stamps have:



(and this is a really pathetic attempt at the 2 Anna )

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

We have a real live one here from eBay seller rekoanan

Described as 'India/Jind State 1903 MNH 1 stamp SC#26 Scott value $4.50'



You can find it at http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370594621576

I thought I should reveal to rekoanan that his treasure wasn't from Jind, and wasn't even a genuine stamp. I emailed:

"This is a modern forgery, copied from a catalogue, of a Kishangarh State stamp. This is what the genuine stamp looks like: http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg29 ... 200dpi.jpg
I suggest you withdraw the stamp."

Seller rekoanan didn't agree with me. He emailed back:

"I thing you are total wrong ,this what you show me, that is diferrent stamp. I double check Scott catalogue, diferent Indian Feudatory States has identical stamp designes. And on top of this i got this stamps from Mystic Stamp (larges stamp dealer in US)as a genue stamp.I suggest you totally check your knowlege of stamps before you suggest any think, i`m confirm stamp is orginal."

Well, so there we are. If you want genuine Indian States, you should buy from Mystic.

I've replied to the seller:

"You are perfectly correct that these are two different stamps. The difference is that the stamp image I emailed you is of a genuine stamp; your stamp is a forgery.

I have no idea what Scott lists for this stamp. Scott is a very poor authority on the Indian States. Gibbons is far more reliable. It lists only one stamp of this type: the stamp image I sent you. It is described as being on 'thick white wove glazed paper'. Your stamp is not on thick white wove glazed paper.

The Mystic Stamp Company may indeed have sold this stamp to you as genuine. That only demonstrates that, while Mystic may know a great deal about US stamps, they know very little about the Indian States.

As you seem to doubt my knowledge of Kishangarh State stamps, you're welcome to look through my Photobucket Kishangarh album at http://s251.photobucket.com/albums/gg29 ... ishangarh/
to see for yourself if I know what I'm talking about.

In the meantime, I urge you again to withdraw this stamp from sale because it is definitely not genuine."

We'll see what happens.

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

Unbelievable! This seller has a 100% feedback and a feedback score that runs into thousands, yet he is so very ignorant

I wonder how many of such deals he has pulled off on eBay!

And the way he talks about Scott listings, he hasn't even got around to go to the Jind section to see what Scott 26 looks like

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to reflect on God's creation is very fruitful meditation, and to reflect on Man's beauty of a creation - stamps - is no less either!

It does make you wonder, doesn't it?

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

Rekoanan is at it again: Bhopal this time. (Though at least he has the State right, and isn't insisting that different States used the same designs )

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320867681169

"India/Bhopal State 1902 MNH 1 stamp SC#26"



He already has one optimist bidding 99c for this rubbish. I've emailed him again, a little more tersely this time. It will be most amusing to see how he responds, if he does.

In case anyone is unfamiliar with the real thing, here is a sheet (in SG terms, 90a)



As I did last time, I've emailed him a link to this scan.

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

Hi Tony - I noticed in your album/scans of Kish you included that fake! Knowing this seller he will try and claim it is even legit in your collection! I think it is important to take a stand, and I am quite aghast at the number of fake items and ignorance of sellers (and buyers). I know I am a better buyer now (although I am on hiatus paying off my basement)

-Jason

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Development Owner of - [*] Stamp Image Bursting Application - http://www.drakeserver.com/
[*] Stamp Album Page Generator - http://code.google.com/p/stamp-pagegen/ - [*] Stamp Web Editor

You're probably right, Jason. A seller who can discover in his copy of Scott that Jind issued a Kishangarh stamp in 1903 wouldn't gag at such a thing. But he's likely to insist that it's a genuine Jind stamp no matter where I put the wretched scan

And by the way, you really must get your priorities right. Stamps versus ... a basement

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

Well, I have my response from eBay seller rekoanan:

"I got this stam from Mystic Stamp Co. and i have no reason to not trust larger stamps dealer and his long time reputation, like i have no reason to belived you as a same expert and i`m not sure YOUR stamp it is not forgery. Do i have to belived because you sad so?"

So: if you have any doubts about whether your Indian States stamps are OK, just refer to Mystic ...

I've responded by suggesting I probably know more about Bhopal than Mystic does, and that I'll report him to eBay unless he withdraws the stamps.

Incidentally, rekoanan has quietly dropped his claim that the Kishangarh stamp was issued by Jind. It's now listed under Kishangarh. It comes up in my eBay search alongside another fake of the same stamp

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

Re rekoanan.

I contacted him as well and got these strange replies. He seems confused, because I didn't refer to any stamps of mine, just that I'd been collecting Indian States for 30 years or more and his were clearly worthless fakes:

You can collecting a 100 years stamps, but dit not make this you some kind of expert in my eyes, look to me like your stamps are the forgery, they look to new for over 100 years old.What you tellig me is just a words, where is any proof?

and:

I suggest you remove your forgery and don`t be so sure you have got all knowledge about States stamps, little more humble and reflection

and lastly:

That i pointed out yor stamps are forgeries. And your suggestion to have refund from Mystic Stamp are very funny, you want me just like that tell them: "i want my money back because some unknown guy contact me (without my invitation) and tell me (judged oh screening from monitor) stamps i have got from you are not real stamps".
They are really experts in my eyes and i do not to do anything fullish like that.

He has a fascinating way of mangling the English language!