Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

Ok.. we're at the "water cooler" and it's time to blow off steam.

I am a large buyer of stamps, well known in my area. I won't say much about this, but know it plays in this story. Well, a couple of days ago, a guy from out of the blue called me and asked if I was the stamp guy, referred to him by all the local auction guys. (I buy stamps at local auctions, when they come available. My accumulation is beyond insane... mostly described as a sickness.) I told him I was.

What happens next... stuff of legends and thought I would share with you. The guy who called me is retired, but a known buyer of antiques and unusual items. Well, a funeral home called him to "clean out a home" of a lady that died, as it was full of antiques, including glassware, which is highly collectable here. Actually, the house had many collectibles, including coins, lamps, figurines, etc. However, in one room, sealed off from the rest of the house, behind locked doors, is one of the largest accumulation of stamps one could ever imagine.

Apparently, this lady, had inherited a couple of stamp stores or was a very large buyer at auction, or maybe her long past husband was... no one knows. As she grew older, all she talked about was her "stamp collection," incessantly, but none of the neighbors knew what she was talking about. They were confused as to why she always talked about it and just wrote it off to senility.

You have to be a stamp addict to understand what was going on. In this sealed off room is one of the largest and most valuable stamp collections I have ever seen. The funeral director, handling the remains of this lady was ordered by the court to "clean her house" and this same funeral director sold everything in the house to this antique collector - if he cleaned the house as well... everything except the stamps in the sealed off room.

When the courts heard about this "massive and valuable collection, they ordered the antique collector to "take possession of the accumulation and put it in storage until something can be determined."

You see, this woman has no heirs of any sort... thus her estate becomes property of the state. Absolutely no one in this town has a clue about stamps.. no more than you would about pre-columbian native-american artifacts. So, now the courts must decide what to do with this collection, like give the proceeds to charity or to sell and put into the local general budget.

Now I come into the picture. I show up at the storage facility to see the stamps, and in storage is 100s of albums, stockbooks, and boxes and boxes of glassines. Postage alone is in the tens of thousands of dollars, and there are postage lots from most every country in the world, sorted and unstored. (Ready for this... including mint Roos, KGVI, mint NZ pictorials, BOXES OF MINT CHINA, HONG KONG AND INDIA - and mint US going back to 1913, much Washington-Franklin issues - POSTAGE mind you.) Lots of classics, lots of approval type material, lots of everything... everything.

After looking at 5%, I just closed the last stockbook I had open and said, "let's talk." Since I am know for giving appraisals and estimates for estates, lawyers, and the courts, this guy wanted me to write a letter to the court with recommendations.

The first thing I told him was that it had to be removed from storage and immediately put into a weather-controlled environment... immediately, if not sooner. Leaving it in storage, to the elements and humidity, is a crime against philately. This is like using the US Constitution or the Declaration of Independence to practice origami.

We are working on getting this collection/accumulation to a weather controlled environment, but you know how the courts work... slower than molasses in a dripping contest. They ain't got no dog in this fight, so why care?

Upon leaving, I told the custodian that it is inconceivable that this lady didn't plan better... which is why she always talked about it.. she just didn't know what to do. Later she was put into a nursing home, and no one at the nursing home understood what she meant by "her stamp collection." They just all wrote it off to senility and prattle.

Well, the collection is still sitting there, in the storage unit... complete Vatican to somewhere in the 90s, complete this, complete that, sheets of this, sheets of that... just sitting there waiting for someone to do something, mainly the courts.

On the way home, I told the person riding with me, that I could not believe that such a collection was not .. how do you say it?... not planned for. Poor lady. Then the person riding with me gave me an incredulous look and said, "what? you have 20 times that much, and more far more valuable. Your collection is stuffed away in 400 banker boxes. You have never been married and have no children. If you accidentally died tomorrow, how would you be any different?"

That was 36 hours ago... i haven't slept since.

Bahn,

Interesting story. I'd like to hear how this will end.

In the meantime, take a look at this thread.

Do You Have an Exit Strategy?

Thanks AMark. Have read the other thread, interesting, depressing, informative.

Tomorrow or Friday morning, I go to the collection to give it a better examination, to make a better offer. I plan on being there until Saturday night, non-stop.

Don't misunderstand, I am extremely fast at evaluating stamps. I am willing to bet there are over 2 million mint stamps. This should be interesting.

It's a shame we don't have buyer clubs any more. Those days were fun. This would be an excellent lot for 20 buyers. Such is life now-a-days.

Welcome to my world.

I've done this for a living for 30 years. There are 6-7 million people in my area, and I am the only real cash buyer who takes EVERYTHING. No exceptions.

Think on how many deaths/divorces/downsizings/bankruptcies etc there are each month in 7 million people.

ONE room of stamps is nothing to be honest.

Several times a year I get called to buy near full houses of stuff.

Usually some old guy in the big family home that the kids moved out of 25 years ago, and the wife has since died etc.

They often keep buying like pack rats - carton after carton. No wife nagging them to keep the place clean.

A few 100 buys like that over a lifetime, and the house and garage is full.

They have the space, they have the money, they have the time.

Which is why I have 3 stories of EXACTLY that same stuff here -

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=3636

And if I get hit by a bus tomorrow someone will be doing the same thing over here!

A guy drove a van over here yesterday with near FIVE HUNDRED of the large PO annual album books. 30 large cartons of them.

His father thought he'd "invest" in them.

Even in this large place I do not have room right now for 30 cartons, so I made him a silly offer and suggested he go away.

Glen

Yeah, but Glen.. you have a massive outlet to sell your items. I follow your website religiously, especially the bargain pages, and I have bought from you (many years ago when the $ was favorable in the direction of the US).

Maybe I should let you sell my items... hmmmm.

Our problem here, in the USA, is that dealers are dropping like flies, due to age. There are 1/10 the collectors today than 20 years ago, and 1/50 from 50 years ago. Now dealers and hoarders are dumping their material on us, for nothing.

I just bought out the last/largest/oldest dealer in Memphis, entire stock, for $70K. 20 years ago, when he last sold something, he could have sold for 1/2 mil.

Brick and Mortar stores are suffering, mercilessly, as eBay has dominated the market - as stuff goes for 20%. How can a brick and mortar buy and sell to compete? They are just concentrating on coins and currency now.

Sign of the times, I guess.

KNOWLEDGE and a guarantee.

Something most ebay sellers are lacking.

One only has to read of the 100s of fake accounts, regums, re-perfing, shill bidding, and plain CON-MEN on ebay we expose here all the time, that ebay simply does not care about, as they make money from them ALL -

http://www.stampboards.com/viewforum.php?f=21

The reason I go to a GP with a medical issue rather than buy a cream or wild herb extract tablet I sourced off google, is that I want EXPERIENCE .... not guesswork and hype and fakery.

Glen

Bahn, nice story. While I agree with part of what you say, the real reason eBayers have huge advantages over shopfronts in that they have no rental, power bills and other overheads to pay (such as part time assistants)

Glen has no shopfront, just a house, but is well known all over the world due to his internet presence, marketing techniques, 30 year history, and (dare I say it) this Board. His Parole Officer can also be helpful at times.

A shop needs stock. Lots and lots of stock to entice people inside - more overheads through lost opportunity costs. An eBayer does not need any. Just make a few judicous purchases one week, and put them up on eBay the next. Total cost, a PC and a scanner. Inner city shops can never compete with this sort of selling, and even suburban sites are no longer cheap.

But a lounge room with a few hundred stamps? No overheads at all, just a bit of time involved. There is no competition. Bricks and Morter cannot compete with this.

And I would also suggest that the beginning of the end for shopfronts goes back to the early '80's when the Bubble burst, and many dealers found themselves stuck with stock that could not be unloaded at any price. That's when they started to vanish, and only the biggest survived.

Norm

_________________
Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

True on this end.. but what about the opposite end? I can view thousands of lots instantly, and I know what I am looking for. People selling their parents collection? Dealers just moving stuff, buying low, selling a bit higher, not knowing what is really in the collection? Old sellers going to eBay now, putting up their stock to be examined... and sold by employees who don't have a real clue? Elderly collectors selling their material off (bluechips)? I could go on and on, and these are not novice collectors.

I have been buying from Bob Freidman for years on end.. usually clearing him out of NZ material.. and Marvin of Bellmore stamps, now online, etc. Many of the well know dealers are selling on eBay now, and they know what they are doing regarding fakes, regummed, etc. I can view their material, find specialized material they know nothing about.. like an orange-brown resized 1/ kea & kaka for $50, MNH. Not listed in the bible... Scotts.. lol.

Bottom line, brick and mortars not converting, will soon find me at their door with a check ready to buy them out. Odds are, they will sell.

I need help... at least that is what everyone is telling me. I am starting to believe them.

(Also Glen, you have the resources to buy in massive volumes... I don't. I am broke.)

NORM.. TOTALLY and ABSOLUTELY agree with you.. you nailed it.

There is much truth with what Norm says re overheads in a shop.

Even in my local shopping centre well out of town a shop is $1,500 a week rent and with insurance, and 1 or 2 staff, and owner's wages, advertising, etc, you really need to MAKE (not gross) near $5000 a week profit JUST to cover outgoings.

A ton of retail stamp shops do not even GROSS $5K, and work on only 25% margin.

I sat next to Max Stern at a lunch recently and he rents about SIX adjoining shops (literally) in an arcade in central Melbourne CBD and has a lot of staff, and is still making a ton, so it CAN work in 2012 if you are good, and Max is the best.

At least buyers from me, or Max, or Bob Freidman etc know they are getting WHAT they pay for, as the dealer GUARANTEES it to be genuine.

Spend $500 on a single stamp with any of us and you will get a genuine copy of something scarce.

Or it would not be $500!



Some of the moron ebay bidders have far lower IQ's than many primates swinging around the African jungle, I kid you not.

Those ebay cretins bid this photocopied or laser printed junk a few hours back to $US510.

Not the 5.1c it really is worth. Not 51c. Not $5.10, not $51. But $US510.

23 bids. Incredible.

Would Max Stern, or Bob Freidman offer this worthless garbage for $US510? Of course not.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll ... true&rt=nc

Glen

LOL.. totally agree.. wouldn't be listed by reputable dealer.. but then again, any intelligent buyer would know this stamp wouldn't be on eBay either.

23 bids, eh? goodness. and all I need is a copier/laserprinter?

eBay/paypal will hold the funds, the item will be returned, and the buyer will get his money back, a good lesson, AND a red face.

still think buying out old dealers who are past retirement are the best. I met a dealer once, sitting in his chair so long, he had cobwebs all over him. I thought maybe it was a mannequin, but wasn't sure. I said, "hello" really loud then the mannequin spoke, "I am right here, in front of you" cobwebs glistening with each word spoken. His wife died years ago, and was going to sell every last one of his stamps or die first. I made his day. I took all the stamp... all the dust, cobwebs and spiders... I took the 1976 scott catalog out of his frail hands... I loaded antiquated bottles of benzine (petroleum ether) and unopened letters from Nassau Street (auction catalogues)... I left with my truck and trailer. As I pulled away, I heard a "yipee" from the old room, then a thud, and silence. I quickly left. The check was never cancelled.

Maybe he should have sold out earlier. Goodness.

(you probably don't remember me, as I don't buy many individual items much anymore... but I do read your website often. Love your bargain page, especially when you rant on the US.. lol... which is quite often. I was tempted to give you some XF $ columbians, but then rethought it... lol)

This material I am checking out this weekend, has to be at least two dealers worth. I will have to find out who she was and why she has so much India.
God bless Asia... er, i mean America.

ONLY if enough of us report the lot so that ebay cancels the sale.

OTHERWISE the idiotic buyer will be in raptures over his "bargain".

_________________
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Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

I am, as I always do, going to check out the feedback, if any, on that lot and post it on the original thread here.

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=35931

This was from an eBay top rated seller philiph58, which simply confirms that eBay does not care and does not have clue about anything.

Norm

_________________
Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

No idea what the stamp you're talking about it or what its worth (not my area of collecting), but for sure the dealer still turned a profit on the sale. If they sold it for $50, they must have bought it for $30 or so say; or maybe it was mounted on an album page and they pulled it off as a spot-check of Scott showed it was worth a few bob.

So the true loser is the original seller who let it go unnoticed; Friedman's loss is a more abstract opportunity cost--they could invest in a ream of foreign/specialized catalogues, and have staff pore through the books cataloguing albums, but forego that in favour of a quick turnaround. And you're the rightful 'winner' as you identified it for what it is. As you'll know from reading Glen's columns, his mantra is Knowledge is Power (or if he was Yoda, "Power, Knowledge is.")

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

That Penny Magenta.

Truly clueless bidders, and a seller who is either equally clueless or knows stamps and left out the 'fine print' such as "this is a modern reprint, of nominal value only to someone who'd like to know what the genuine item looks like"...I'd bet on the former, given the 'quality' of their description:

_________________
Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

The GOMC are now looking for something to do.
I am sure that we would be willing to carefully scrutenise this collection, for FREE,
Just send the return airline tickets, book an upmarket hotel for a month including sustenance ( the whole floor ) and give us a listing of the local wineries.
Tell the court it was done for free, except for "incidentals."

Sadly I thought the GOMC had pulled stumps.

Slipped to number 12 thread in your section!!!

John G

Careful Bahn, from what I've heard, you shouldn't let Philanthropist near a stamp or restaurant, he'll (eventually) leave the storage locker, buffet table, and your wallet all cleaned out.

Usually when someone joins the Board to seek info/advice on disposing of a collection, they have no clue what they're doing. For a change, you're not one of these non-collector inheritors (who more often than not believe a hum-drum album is a fortune their relative was sitting on).

Will be most interesting to hear updates of what you find in your more detailed inventorying/appraisal.

_________________
Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

Hmmm... well, I had to spend a fortune for "my education" going to 3 schools of higher learning. I feel this guy will get his education at the much cheaper price of $510, and will be a much more memorable lesson.

However, there were times when I allowed myself to get suckered in also.

What I hope will happen is that the buyer will get the item expertized or an opinion and will, within 1 day, realize that the stamp is a replicated fake. He will then report the item to eBay and they will make sure he gets his money back. At least this should be the case. I contacted both eBay and the dealer myself, and mentioned the situation.

true, but the custodian, the Executor, and the judge of the court are all clueless. Just that this time, it really is valuable.

Couldn't you guys imagine the frustration in this poor, little ole lady's soul, that was trying to tell everyone that she has a fortune in stamps (and other items) in her house.. but not a single neighbor, friend or caregiver thought a thing about it.

If the word "stamp" is spoken within 2 miles of me, I am on it like "white on rice" or as we say here, "stink on sh.." . Goodness. "exit strategy".. I like that term now.

Yep 20% is about the Ebay price. The only way bricks and mortar can compare is drop their prices and move more material. As an experiment, I put some German airmails (Deutsches Reich Mi 344-350 1924 Airmail Set) up on the selling page, Mi cat €1500.00 ( circa £1340.00 GBP ) at $600.00 about 1/3, then dropped the price twice to $400.00. That is an absolute bargain, they MNH and in excellent condition. They haven't sold, and probably wont, because Ebay price is circa $250- 300. I have £10,000 or more in MNH Germany that I'm 'stuck with', because I will not see them going for 20% on Ebay.

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With kind regards, Jim

Which is why these days I place such items with a real auction house. Ebay has had its day.

first... ouch. I know the feeling.

secondly, it's not the buyers, it's the selling format of eBay. You're competing with many other sellers and eBay pits them against each other. If you do a search, you will find 10 of your German sets, and buyers will naturally go with the lowest of similar items, taking in consideration centering, hinging, condition, etc.

thirdly, it's the "supply vs. demand" dilemma. Being a buyer on eBay, I am rarely competitive, even for really good stuff, like German airmails. There is large supply, and I see them all the time at auctions, websites, and on eBay. Stamp collection is on the decline in Germany, UK, and US. The supply of those countries is greater than the demand (IN GENERAL). (same argument can be made currency inflation) The opposite is true for NZ, Australia, and much of Asia, where stamp collecting is on the rise, causing a stronger demand than supply, and monkeys go to $1700.. lol.

So, I bet if you're talking blocks of red monkey vs. zeppelin sets.. well, you get the point.

The stamps or the bidders?

_________________
Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

lol... lol. good chuckle for the morning. Of course he bidders would probably go for a lot less, no? Wonder if the red monkey will ever go back to $50, which is what I paid for each of them in 2001 or 2006, can't remember the year.

Well, am off to examine the stamps in the storage. be back in 2-3 days.

2001 they might have been at $50...I'm sure by 2006 the price was many multiples of that.

There's a certain amount of "dumb sheep" action fueling the market...for a lot of the 'iconic' mid-modern PRC (1960s-70s-early 80s material)--the M/S and key sets like Butterflies or Huangshan--there's speculators out there who buy up the items as investment without philatelic appreciation, and for some of those who are collectors, collecting has gone beyond a one-of-each collecting to how many of X or Y do you have.

I wouldn't put my money in this material as a long-term investor. I engage in get in-get out profit-taking when I come upon an undervalued item, but those occasions are few.

_________________
Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

Well, going from 11:00am (being on the road at 8:30am) and finishing at 2:00am (the next day), only stopping 1 hour to eat, and returning home at 4:00 am, I have examined the accumulation in more detail. I could not possibly examined every single piece of course, but we did box all the material into some 33 banker boxes and about 10 other boxes.

Without counting to an exact number, I am willing to say there were 100 albums, mostly Scott's International and National, various stockbooks, presentation folders. A low-ball estimate would be $75-100 per album, but one could easily be comfortable with $200 per album, on average again. Shame most of the stamps were hinged, but the better ones kept UMM/MNH in mounts.

The vast majority of the material is US postage. It is overwhelming and impossible to calculate within the time span allocated. Most is material in the 10c - 39c range. A guestimate would be somewhere around $20-25K.

The amount of items in glassines (goodness) filled several boxes alone, vast majority being new issues from 1980 of many countries, mostly Caribbean Islands, Australia (lots), NZ, Canada (lots), China, Israel, Sweden (booklets), GB, Ireland (lots), and Yugoslavia. Almost every country was represented. There was so much new issue material, from philatelic agencies, that we just started boxing by the handful. We probably had a box full of receipts from those agencies as well, including Unicover/Fleetwood of Wyoming. A wild guestimate? US$20,000 FMV (fair market value you could get on eBay).

Also, lots of approvals stuck in albums and other places. Mystic and the late Robert Tromp being two. Much from auction houses, thus her "better material."

Overall, the total should be somewhere around $50K, but suspect somewhere around $10,000 will get the lot. That's around $250 per box.. a steal.

So ... ehhh. are you going to try to buy it?
Interesting read. I dream of a room full of stamps at night.

You have got to be kidding! Fair Market Value on post 1950s MUH?

If I even smell modern gum from those glassines, I close the box lid right away.

_________________
Mail a kid a hobby -- use stamps!

I don't know. I have done this so much over the past 20 years, that I am out of room. There is just so much weather controlled storage space that one can afford... lol. It is doubtful that I can sort what I have in the remainder of my short lifetime. Two other auction houses have heard about this material - and both have offered $100 to 200... lol... no joke, but they don't know what is there... well, no one did until yesterday. As a matter of fact, only those reading this thread know what is there, including the custodian who was with me the whole time, either auction house - or - ready for this... her dealer friends who sold to her and fellow members of her stamp club, who do not know she is dead yet, as she hasn't been to a meeting in some time.

9 out of 10 times when I bid/compete for an estate, I get it. I am just too soft-heart, bull-headed, and retail-minded and before I know it... i am the last bidder standing when the other ones are strict wholesalers. most retailers won't go into 5 digits for a bulk lot of stamps.

eBay sales and auction houses determine FMV, not me, not you. IF it goes for that... it goes for that, and just the "modern gum" on post-1950 China will bring some interesting money, no? hinged stuff and unwanted topicals become postage to stamp clubs, churches and individuals (wanting postage).

Like you I am a classic collector only.. up to 1940, except for the tagging on 1960s Canada. So, I understand your point, but we aren't the only two out there.

Are you sure you don't mean retain-minded?

Norm

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Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

Calculating forward or backwards, I reached the $10,000 conclusion by reaching the $50 - 60K FMV. The material could be sold for $100K, far less than what the owner paid for it at face and via approval service. But with the market trinkle down theory...
(I assume)

10K by wholesaler who may or may not get it after 2 days work and money spent of trade goods, like gas, boxes, tape, markers, food & drink, possible rooming, etc

sells it for 30-50K, depending on how much time the wholesaler wants to spend on breaking it down, to, say, 5 dealers or retailers, who breaks it down to various degrees and sells it 75 - 100K.

This is how it works with collections that don't have an exit strategy, again, I assume.

LOL... (chucking)... I didn't look at the proper way of wording it... but I guess you're right. maybe we need another way of writing it.. retail/n - minded. ???