Another India Gandhi "FDC" on eBay. Comments please. Fake?

drvvr · **Posted:** Mon Feb 06, 2012 05:23:51 am

Currently listed on ebay by "buyitnowitem"

http://www.ebay.in/itm/GANDHI-1948-ISSUE-4-VALUE-STAMPS-PVT-MOURNING-COVER-SCARCE-COVER-/320836926313

item number-320836926313

The item is the ever sought after Gandhi cover with all 4 stamps.

Here are the scans by seller

.

Item description

NOTE BEFORE BIDDING:

MANY QUREIES CAME WITH REQUESTING THE CERTIFICATE WITH COVER, STATUS OF THE PMKs SOME OFFERED PETTY 25000 RS CLAIMING THE CANELLATIONS ARE FAKE BUT THEY WANT TO SHOW MERCY TO FILL THE GAP IN THIER COLLECTION.

YOU ARE REQUESTED SATISFY YOURSELF FOR THE ITEM AS WE HAVE PUT IT FOR AUCTION ON " AS IT IS BASIS"

WE DON'T CLAIM IT'S FAKE OR GENUINE PMKS BUT IT'S 100% SURE THAT STAMPS ARE GENUINE AND THE COVER IS ALSO EXISTING WHICH IS A PRIVATE ONE. ONE OF THE MUMBAI SELLER FREIND SOLD THE SAME BALANK COVER APPROX 21000/-

NO RETURN WILL BE FOR THIS COVER PLEASE

CONDITION : AS PER SCAN FINE

SCAN (1) FULL VIEW OF THE COVER

SCAN(2) BACK SIDE OF THE COVER

SCAN(3) BLANK COVER WHICH WAS SOLD IN AUCTION ON ebay PROVES THAT SUCH TYPE OF COVER WERE PRINTED AT THAT TIME. THIS COVER IS NOT A PART OF AUCTION. IT'S JUST FOR ILLUSTRATION PURPOSE.

HAPPY COLLECTING ....

==============

Comments please. Right now at Rs.75000 or nearly 1500 AUD.

Global Administrator · **Posted:** Mon Feb 06, 2012 14:59:43 pm

Anyone placing a bid with a snake oil salesman like this ebayer spiv "buyitnowitem", fully deserves their fate!

MANY QUREIES CAME WITH REQUESTING THE CERTIFICATE WITH COVER, STATUS OF THE PMKs SOME OFFERED PETTY 25000 RS CLAIMING THE CANELLATIONS ARE FAKE BUT THEY WANT TO SHOW MERCY TO FILL THE GAP IN THIER COLLECTION.

YOU ARE REQUESTED SATISFY YOURSELF FOR THE ITEM AS WE HAVE PUT IT FOR AUCTION ON " AS IT IS BASIS"

WE DON'T CLAIM IT'S FAKE OR GENUINE PMKS

Allanswood · **Posted:** Mon Feb 06, 2012 15:08:07 pm

If it's worth so much then why wouldn't spend a small amount of money and get a certificate for it and gain a return of perhaps 50-100% more on the final price then you would have gotten with the above jibberish description? :roll:

PS - Was there more than 1 "souvenir" canceller, if that's what it is? As I have seen images of the same type of canceller but from Lucknow not Bombay.

Global Administrator · **Posted:** Mon Feb 06, 2012 15:09:23 pm

Allanswood wrote:

If it's worth so much then why wouldn't spend a small amount of money and get a certificate for it and gain a return of perhaps 50-100% more on the final price then you would have gotten with the above jibberish description? :roll:

BINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGO!

fromdownunder · **Posted:** Mon Feb 06, 2012 15:13:26 pm

Global Administrator wrote:

Anyone placing a bid with a snake oil salesman like this, fully deserves their fate!

WE DON'T CLAIM IT'S FAKE OR GENUINE PMKS[/i]

And yet at one point the seller did try to claim some form of provinence for this exact same cover - it has been around on eBay forever:

Quote:

WE ARE GETTING DAILY MAILS AND PHONE QUERRIES REGARDING THIS ITEM.

WE WISH TO ADD THAT THE COVER LISTED FOR AUCTION WAS THE PART OF AN ELITE AHMEDABAD BASED COLLECTOR WHO EXPIRED VERY YOUNG.HE WAS ALSO POST HOLDER OF GPA AND WAS VERY ACTIVE IN ORGANISING EXHIBITIONS.

THIS IS A PRIVATE COVER.PRINTED QTY IS NOT KNOWN TO US AND AS THE COLLECTOR OF THIS IS NO MORE

(bolding mine)

See: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=8254&hilit=Gandhi&start=50

Crooks! Liars! Change the spiel every time it does not sell and hope like hell that it has not been already recorded for posterity on Stampboards. The problem being, these days, with the eyes of the philatelic world watching shonks from right here, it will be.

To respond to the OP's query, it is probably worth around what a used set is worth, perhaps a bit less if the Postmarks are faked. What a waste of a nice set of stamps.

Norm

Tassie_Stamps · **Posted:** Mon Feb 06, 2012 15:14:47 pm

Allanswood wrote:

If it's worth so much then why wouldn't spend a small amount of money and get a certificate for it and gain a return of perhaps 50-100% more on the final price then you would have gotten with the above jibberish description? :roll:

Because that would be common sense, and there is no correlation between common sense and eBay. :lol:

Allanswood · **Posted:** Mon Feb 06, 2012 15:22:11 pm

I found and Indian blogspot explaining that the cancellation itself on this cover is faked -

http://gandhiphilately.blogspot.com.au/2012/01/1948-india-gandhi-stamps-gandhi-1948.html

GlenStephens · **Posted:** Mon Feb 06, 2012 15:36:55 pm

"buyitnowitem" takes great pains to point out the underlying cover design is recorded - which may well be correct, as he points to a blank one being sold.

HOWEVER genuine serviced covers from that era, were near all addressed.

The cancel is what is being called into question as being fake.

The seller only offers this below as his largest image - designed to offer the lowest size image possible of the cancel I'd say.

Chances of cancel being - fake - near 100% in my view.

Allanswood · **Posted:** Mon Feb 06, 2012 16:20:03 pm

The cover above sold for Rs 75,000. Ended just a short time ago with 1 bid.
The exact same cover was also listed but not sold on 31 Dec 2011 for Rs 199,000.

Global Administrator · **Posted:** Mon Feb 06, 2012 16:38:38 pm

How much is 75,000 Rupees? About $A1500?

The cancel is a crude fake as pointed out on that blog.

A set of no gum or mint hinged stamps is about $150. If the faker has been lazy he will have glued on a mint hinged 10R, and that can be seen by holding the cover to a strong desk light globe where the hinge remain will shown through. :idea:

When feedback appears I hope the alleged "buyer" is given a link thread to read -

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=34475

Allanswood · **Posted:** Mon Feb 06, 2012 17:01:35 pm

The cancel is an unsteady hand cut fake.

But also with those other cancels above, I'm assuming that there were more than the 1 cancel used in the same post office as the top of the spindle points to the "A" in one and between the "A" and the "Y" of Bombay in the other.

birder · **Posted:** Tue Feb 07, 2012 00:57:34 am

This cover was sold for INR 75000 (around 1500 USD) to a buyer who had 100% bid activity with the seller.

Such crooked sellers should be exposed, tarred, feathered...

Onwards my friends.

birder · **Posted:** Tue Feb 07, 2012 00:58:08 am

Earlier this seller "buyitnowitem" had sold a "begum Akhtar" withdrawn stamp on cover with "late fee paid rare" in the description.

The buyer paid a huge price and has left the polite feedback "It is not postally used".

http://www.ebay.in/itm/320784875544

I wonder how many people have been cheated in the past by this unscrupulous Brown Owl?

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Tue Feb 07, 2012 01:07:10 am

I chose the lowest price option in the survey, as the majority have at this point.

Basically the survey is asking "how much would you pay for an obvious fake?" :roll:

Even if you soak the stamps off to get a 'used' set, you'll have a set that's been cancelled with a fake postmark. Although with those slight corner cancels you might fool people that way.

I had this cover on my eBay watchlist...and also its previous incarnation back in December, where it didn't sell at all. It was interesting to see the substantial price drop, and the fact that someone jumped in with a bid right away on the last go-around.

admin · **Posted:** Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:44:42 am

Genuine Gandhi FDC are getting over $US6,000 each on ebay even in appalling condition as this one below was, but still got $US6,100. (And note, the one below is GENUINE, no doubt about that.)

The fakers will now emerge, with those kind of current high prices, and buyers should be careful to ONLY buy covers where close up scans of the cancels are shown by sellers.

The fake cancels look pretty crudely made to any experienced eye, but newbie buyers, seeking only "bargains" sadly do not realise that.

And fake or genuine ugly tatty covers such as this below will be impossible to sell in 10 years for even HALF what a nicer one will bring.

The Indian market is in a juvenile emerging stage right now, and will mature and be stronger than ever, in 10 years.

Everyone there now is chasing 'bargains" and ignoring QUALITY. Very short sighted.

In 10 years when the buyers are accustomed to western standards of stamp quality, a tatty cover like this below will not be saleable, for even a fraction of a flat clean one IMHO.

"Quality is remembered, long after the price is forgotten"

stamps4collectors wrote:

Front

Back

The above cover has just sold on eBay (lot #250903649911) for US$6,100
(approx A$6,195); bidding started at US$9.95 for the cover, which was
offered by a 5-star, 100% feedback-rated California, USA dealer as under:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250903649911

It was described thus:

"Rarely seen complete set of 4 stamps on first-day cover postmarked Bombay
15 August 1948 sent to Hungary with Budapest August 22 receiving mark on
the back. Cover has many creases as it is a large envelope that went though
the mail system, but all the stamps are OK."

Demand for Indian stamps is heating up, especially for classics such as the
1948 Gandhi set. Though attractive in its own way, the cover above is hardly
pristine - and as with recent realisations for Chinese stamps, it seems that
condition is of less importance to would-be buyers than relative scarcity.

The fact that this cover was sent by one Popatlal G. Gandhi from Bombay may
also have had something to do with its perceived value. I've Googled and Wiki'd
the name but can't find any reference to this sender as being of the same family.

bpg_stampboards · **Posted:** Fri Feb 24, 2012 06:02:11 am

The following Gandhi cover is currently being auctioned on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/INDIA-1948-Mahatma-GANDHI-First-Day-Cover-MOURNING-FDC-very-clean-and-genuine-/28082751644?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41629fd644#ht_3323wt_1126

Feel free to comment as it might help some potential buyers.

Thanks!

stagman · **Posted:** Fri Apr 06, 2012 09:35:52 am

Hi are these covers that rare?

peterh · **Posted:** Sun May 06, 2012 09:25:46 am

Curiouser and curiouser...

The cover shown at the start of this thread (or an identical item) has now appeared on eBay from a UK zero-feedback seller, graceysstall822012:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INDIA-COMMEMO ... 19d0a46867

The item allegedly sold on 28 April for £771.00, but was then relisted.

Another Gandhi cover is listed by another zero-feedback UK seller with a very similar name, stphillipsshop602012, who joined eBay on the same day as graceysstall822012:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INDIA-MAHATMA ... 2ebded30f1

This one supposedly also sold on 28 April for £1,131.00 (to the same buyer), but again was relisted.

Can anyone make sense of what is going on?

I'm wondering if these two listings are completely fraudulent. The sellers each have a few other high-priced items listed and have also sold several.

Global Administrator · **Posted:** Sun May 06, 2012 10:41:47 am

Funny business also on this part set FD cover that sold for over $6000+ on ebay and some idiot also listed it up on Delcampe!

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=36654

lakatoi lover · **Posted:** Sun May 06, 2012 11:19:47 am

Diversing slightly but graceysstall822012 also has some very high value UNMOUNTED mint British Commonweath stamps for sale.

So does stphillipsshop602012........................

Not the sort of thing you would expect a ZERO feedback seller to be listing :!:

psphani · **Posted:** Sun May 06, 2012 12:53:54 pm

I think both the covers , i mean the cancellations are Fake. I would not even bid on this lot.

peterh · **Posted:** Wed May 09, 2012 08:42:52 am

An update (sorry I just like following these convoluted events).

The phillipsshop one sold earlier today for £680, and the graceysstall one also, to the same buyer, for £700.

I asked phillips a question about why it had been relisted previously, and he replied that the buyer had reneged on the deal, and had wanted it for the Buy it Now price of £850 rather than agreeing to pay the price bid of £1,131.

He should have accepted the offer, as it appears he has had to accept a lower price.

Of course, as the general opinion is that the cover is a fake, and some might believe he doesn't even possess the cover, he may still do very well out of the deal.

Both the sellers' feedbacks are still zero by the way.

MissVicki · **Posted:** Wed May 09, 2012 08:53:21 am

I probably won't buy any substantial purchases from eBay or elsewhere for a while but the above thread and others like it are why I search every sellers name on this site before I buy anything, no matter how trivial.

Thank you Stampboards!

peterh · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2012 06:46:41 am

stphillipsshop602012 now has the status of 'not a registered user' on eBay.

graceystall is still there, still with zero feedback.

Global Administrator · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2012 15:12:36 pm

peterh wrote:

stphillipsshop602012 now has the status of 'not a registered user' on eBay.

graceystall is still there, still with zero feedback.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/csc/graceysstall822012/m.html?rt=nc&LH_Complete=1&_fln=1&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3911.c0.m283

graceysstall822012 has offered the totally fake Gandhi "FDC" TWICE recently as can be seen.

And high value KGV Cyprus etc, almost certainly regummed.

"Private Auctions" of course - a near sure sign they have something to hide.

Has the "smell" of the Mary's Gems Bristol outfit to me.

aethelwulf · **Posted:** Sun May 13, 2012 15:49:45 pm

The top cover in the post by peterh has Gandhi's name in the cachet spelled "GHANDHI"...differences in romanization occur in some languages, but his name is such a famous one, nobody would be stuffing up the spelling unless they were a lazy/ignorant forger.


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Another India Gandhi "FDC" on eBay. Comments please. Fake?

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