Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

A few years ago, in a packet of early NZ used stamps, I found a number of stamps on piece similar to this:


C.7, Christchurch to Dunedin run.
Earliest known usage: 4th November 1903.
Latest known usage: 6th December 1911.

Up till then, I had never heard of Railway Travelling Post Offices, nor that they had their own special postmarks (which, curiously, are NOT listed in the "bible" of NZ postmarks, "Wooders' NZ Postmark Guide."

I kept a couple of the best pieces with this C.7 cancellation, and sold the rest. I was spurred on to collect the Railway Travelling Post Offices of New Zealand, and will illustrate some of these here in the months ahead, d.v.

If you have any NZ RTPOs, you may like to show them here also. Or feel free to ask any questions.

Best book for info on these is "Mails by Rail in New Zealand" by Albert Johnstone & Robin Startup, published 2001.


Old postcard showing the Auckland to Wellington express train passing through the centre of Palmerston North.

The main railway has now been re-routed several kilometers west of the city, so passengers now have a considerable drive to meet a train, rather than a quick trip to centre of town as in this era shown!



C.1. Christchurch to Dunedin run.
Earliest known use: October 1878.
Latest known use: 24th February 1886.

The first RTPO was the Christchurch to Dunedin route, and commenced on 23rd November 1878. It occupied half of a second-class van on the express train.

The trip between Christchurch and Dunedin took 11 hours! There were two such RTPO’s: one on the southbound train and the other on the northbound train. Crews changed over at St Andrews, near Timaru, and later at Studholme Junction.

The first cancellations issued to the RTPO were an oval within thick bars with “R.T.P.O. C” (now known as C.1), and an A-class datestamp, with R.T.P.O. (C ) and date. This is known as C.2. Index letters below the date are A or C for
southbound, and B, D, or H for northbound.


1882 Queen Victoria 2d "second sideface" stamp with C.1 cancel.


C.2. October 1885, on a One Penny QV second sideface.
Earliest known use: 16th November 1880.
Latest known use: 10th June 1886.
Note how fuzzy the (C) bracketed appears! This pmk always looks this way.

A fascinating subject area. I have been collecting these for many years now.

As you say the first TPO was established in 1878. The first railway was established between the port of Lyttleton and Christchurch in 1865. This stretch subsequently became part of the Great Southern Railway which according to an article in th Illustrated London News of that year "...is to traverse the great plains extending southwards as far as the rising port of Timaru, about 120 miles from Christchurch, and thence still further south to the Province of Otago with its rich goldfields."

The article was accompanied by this engraved illustration:-



I look forward to seeing further postings

Yes this would be interesting indeed. As would some page scans of exhibition collections.
Tony

The Thames Railway Travelling Post Office

This RTPO began to Te Aroha in 1902, and extended to Thames in 1903. The route ran from Thames south to Te Aroha, then west to Hamilton, then north to Auckland. The changeover stop was Frankton.

The first canceller was an “English” type cancellation (H-class),
with TRAVg P.O. THAMES-AUCKd around the top. This is known as TH.1.

Index numbers above the date are 1 or 4 for the run south from Thames, and 2 or 3 for the return trip.


TH.1. Thames to Auckland route.
Earliest known date of use: 25th August 1903.
Latest known date of use: 27th March 1909.


This postcard sent from Te Aroha, 29th March, 1905, and
put on the train same day, where it received the RTPO
Thames to Auckland datestamp at lower left corner the
same day (TH.1) with index code 1 (= “westbound”.)

I lived in the beautiful small touristy village of Te Aroha (= "The Love Town" in Maori !) for a few years as a child, so try to collect memorabilia of it. Hence the reason I bought this old postcard, not realising it had the elusive TH.1 postmark on the front! (The vendor showed a photo of the picture side only.)

And here's the back:

"The Domain", a huge public reserve filled with sports grounds and hot mineral swimming pools, with incorrect caption. The denuded mountain behind is now fully covered in native bush, and is a regional park. It is apparent that the card has been cropped at some point, as some writing can be seen trimmed off at the right.

In 1909, the name of the run was changed to Ohinemuri, so a new, B-class datestamp with TRAVELLING P.O. around the top, and OHINEMURI round the foot, was introduced. This is known as TH.2. Routes are OUT for the run south from Thames, and INW for the return trip, both shown after the date in the middle line.


TH.2 – Earliest known date of use = 15th October, 1909.
Latest known date of use = November, 1928.

This RTPO closed in 1931 at the height of the Depression. All its postmarks are uncommon.

The North Otago “Loose Letter” Railway Travelling Post Office.


Mails for Canterbury & the North Island closed at Dunedin at 10.30 a.m. and were despatched on the second express departing at 11.30.

Head Offices of several major national firms were in Dunedin and businessfolk soon realised they could post letters right up till departure time in the guard’s van posting box, and send forward the latest intelligence.

Large quantities of such letters were an embarrassment at a busy time for the guard, as they had to be handled as “loose letters”, so early on, perhaps in 1910, the Dunedin Chief Post Office supplied a sorter to deal with this mail. He travelled north as far as Hampden or Palmerston, where he waited for the southbound RTPO, and worked his way back to Dunedin.

The service appears to have halted in April 1917 after Railways Head Office complained that the sorter was not paying a fare for his trip!

NO.1 – Earliest reported date of use = 8th February 1913.
Latest known date of use = 6th February, 1917.

Source: Mails by Rail in NZ, Johnstone & Startup, 2001, RPSNZ.


NO.1
14th October 1911
Earliest known use!

Actually I think that was a later railway. The FIRST in NZ was two years previously (1863), as can be noted by the attractive commemorative stamp set issued by NZ Post Office in 1963.

According to Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canterbury_Provincial_Railways:

The New Plymouth Railway Travelling Post Office

This RTPO began in 1886, and ran from the port of New Plymouth down to Whanganui. It continued until 1931. Initially it ran only twice weekly to link up with the steamer bringing mail from Auckland.

The first canceller was an A-class datestamp showing
RPO - NU (= New Plymouth). This is known as NU.1.

Index letters below the date are 2 or 6 for southbound,
and 7 or 9 for northbound.



NU.1, 29th April 1898.
Southbound train (shown by the index 6.)

Earliest known use = September 1887.
Latest known date of use = 8th August 1902.

1902 saw the introduction of the “English” type cancellation (H-class),
with TRAVg P.O. NEW PLYMOUTH around the top. This is known as NU.2.

Index letters above the date are 1, 3 or 5 for southbound, and 2 or 6 for northbound.


NU.2 on a New Caledonia stamp.
1902 – 1908
10th August, 1903
Southbound (1).


NU.2
1902 – 1908
?0th October, 1903
Southbound (1).

As with other RTPOs, 1908 brought a change of name, and this RTPO became known as TARANAKI, taking its name from the province it served.

From 1908 till 1928, a new datestamp with TRAVELLING P.O. around the top, and TARANAKI around the bottom was used.


NU.3,
- - June 1917.

Earliest known date of use = October 1908.
Latest known date of use = 22nd November 1928.

It is rather hard to make out much detail on this postmark, but I have eliminated the other possibilities, so conclude this pmk is definitely Taranaki. I have also faded down the colour of the black stamp with Photoshop to make the pmk easier to see.

Most pmks are hard to see on the black 1.5 pence stamp, which was the basic letter rate during World War I. This is similar to the blunder when the English Post Office made their first stamp in black ("Penny Black") but later changed the colour to red to see the cancels easier. This 1.5 pence was similarly changed to light brown in 1918.

I came across this in one of my 'spares' book, and although a little dingy looking. Seems to match your TPO's?



Huanga.
ps. Sorry about the size. Its a new computer and a new scanner...well the first time I have used the scanner I bought last year.

Yes, that's NU.1 alright! And a VERY nice clear pmk!

You're absolutely right. Apologies for writing in haste without checking the detail.

Enjoying the posts though so keep them coming.

chippin

[quote="Panterra"]

This RTPO began in 1886, and ran from the port of New Plymouth down to Whanganui. quote]

Please correct this to Wanganui. There is no such place with your spelling and it was never reflected in postmarks of this era.

_________________
Cheers,
Craig

Thanks Craig, but I am using present-day spelling for the city. It's original name was "Petre".

The name has not changed, no matter what the media may think.

_________________
Cheers,
Craig

So let's continue looking at the Christchurch to Dunedin run, discussed in my original post of this thread.


C.3, 14th November 1892.
LATEST KNOWN USE!

Earliest known date of use = 28th September 1886.
Latest known use = 14th November 1892.

C.3 was slightly larger in diameter than C.2, and the lettering is now altered to RPO - C. Index numbers 1 and 6 indicate southbound train, while index 9 or 13 indicate northbound. The example I show is the latest known date.


C.4, 30th December 1895, plus DS.4, 28th December 1895.


The front of the envelope, from where you can see it was posted at Gore, 28th December 1895. Put on the Invercargill to Dunedin train the same day (shown by the DS.4 datestamp), then "lost" for 24 hours
before going on the Dunedin to Christchurch train (C.4)
on 30th December.

From 1892, an A-class datestamp, C.4, was used, with R.P.O - C. This one is characterised by the dot between N and Z being midway up between the letters, rather than at the base as is usual. This postmark returned to using index letters at the foot instead of numbers on C.3. A and C indicated south-bound trains, while B, D, E, and H showed north-bound.

C.4
Earliest known date of use = 7th December 1892.
Latest known date of use = 22nd July 1896.


C.5, 17th May 1897.
Earliest known date of use = 8th August 1896.
Latest known date of use = 17th September 1900.

A similar datestamp replaced C.4 in 1896, and now shows CH (Christchurch) instead of C in the office-name line. This is known as C.5. Note that the dot between N and Z is now on the baseline. Mail numbers used were 1 for southbound, and 2 for northbound trains.

Let's continue looking at the Christchurch to Dunedin run.


C.6, 21st December 1900, southbound.


C.6, 8th February 1902, southbound.

1900 saw the introduction of the "English" type cancellation, also known as the "H"-class, with R.P.O. CHRISTCHURCH-S around the top. This is known as C.6. Index numbers above the date are 1 for southbound, and 2 for northbound.

C.6
Earliest known date of use = 8th September 1900.
Latest known date of use = 11th September 1903.

Let's continue looking at the Christchurch to Dunedin run.


C.7, 29th February 1904, southbound. Obviously a Leap Year.


C.7, 16th February 1904, northbound.

A further design change took place in 1903 when a "B"-class datestamp appeared. This shows TRAVELLING P.O. around the top and CHRISTCHURCH - DUNEDIN around the foot. This is known as C.7. Impressions have OUTWARDS for southbound, and INWARDS for northbound. In my experience, the INWARDS is extremely elusive, and the one illustrated is the only one I have ever seen (as compared with the OUTWARDS, which is reasonably common.)

C.7
Earliest known date of use = 4th November 1903.
Latest known date of use = 6th December 1911.

You are right, it never changed from Whanganui, it was changed to Wanganui by lazy Pakeha's in the 1860s, its merely been corrected.

I am not a Maori radical or anything, but I am tangata whenua in the Whanganui/Rangitikei region and we have never known it as Wanganui, that sounds Australian to us.

Panterra is right, Its Whanganui.

_________________
I collect Malta, Ireland, Malta, Tristan da Cunha, Malta, various Pacific Islands, Malta, New Zealand, Malta, Australia and Malta.

You can deny the correct name and resume calling it "Petre" if you prefer, Craig, but even the NZ Post's philatelic corporation based in that city uses the new version:

Portion of the top right of letter signed by Ivor Masters, (Head of Stamps) dated 15th February 2013.

So if you can't trust NZ Post for the way to spell a town name, who CAN you trust?

The New Plymouth Railway Travelling Post Office

This RTPO began in 1886, and ran from the port of New Plymouth down to Whanganui. It continued until 1931. In my earlier post about this, I showed a rather unclear image of the NU.3 postmark.

Here are some clearer impressions of NU.3:


NU.3, 14th June 1922, on 2d Victory stamp, southbound train.


NU.3, 27th March 1923, on pair of 1.5 pence King George V brown stamp, southbound train.

(Compare this with the BLACK version of the same stamp, shown earlier in this thread.)

In conclusion, from 1928 until the closure of this travelling post office at the end of 1931, a larger postmark was used, and this is known as NU.4. This shows a widely-spaced T.P.O. TARANAKI around the top, and N.Z. at the foot, with the date across the middle, after which number 1 indicates south-bound and 2 indicates north-bound.


NU.4, 15th February 1930, on pair of 1d King George V "Admiral" stamp, southbound train.

nice day

_________________
Cheers,
Craig

The government passed a law last year so that Wanganui can have two names, and you can choose which you use. But the government expects all government departments to use the maori spelling, and as they own NZPost, that is what they are using.

Our mail gets sent to Palmerston North for processing any way.

_________________
Cheers,
Craig

I should imagine this TPO Wellington-Wanganui postmark is fairly common as TPO's go, can you tell me anything about it i.e. when started ?

_________________
Donald.
Aus KGV Head Addict !

This is the fifth of the Wellington to Manawatu TPO datestamps, known as W.5.

Earliest known use = 4th May 1903.
Latest known use = 13th November 1907.

A nice clear impression on your card! "Inwards" on the pmk means it was a southbound train (i.e. travelling south to Wellington.)

Thank you Panterra for the speedy and very full answer, i'm not a collector of NZ but that postmark just caught my eye. Just a pity the stamp wasn't still on the card, though for a postmark enthusiast I guess the stamp isn't important.

_________________
Donald.
Aus KGV Head Addict !

I will compile some details on the very interesting Wellington - Whanganui TPO soon.

Notice that the one you showed Manfaefife is extremely clear, being in only its third (?) month of usage. These steel-rim postmarks deteriorated very slowly over time, but generally lasted rather well, and only suffered distress when an over-enthusiastic sorter hit one on the edge of the stamp-pad or a sharp corner.

Hi there,

These are the only, and not very glamorous examples I have



Lundy

Hello Lundy,

Your left-hand pmk is from the Wellington to Manawatu route, and known as W.3.

Earliest known use = September 1896.
Latest known use = 25th February 1901.

I cannot read the centre pmk, but doubt it is a RTPO. The right-hand is not an RTPO either, but one of the many NZ small post offices located at a train station and ending in "Railway." Unsure which one this is, but there were many P.O.s like this, including "Auckland Railway", "Christchurch Railway", "Motupiko Railway", etc.

Thank you very much Panterra,

Great to have some more information in my collection the middle one looks like it starts Pran or Fran, I will see if I can get a better image

Thanks again and keep going with the thread which is very interesting!

Lundy

Sorry to interrupt but it could be Franz Joseph? Maybe someone can tell if there was a railway line heading close to the glacier

_________________
Collecting Tasman Empire Airways Limited

Hi, I have at last figured out your centre pmk! (Thanks for the suggestion of looking at FRANZ JOSEF as a possibility, Ewen, which I did, but the railway is nowhere near that isolated spot.)

But while looking, I did look nearby and am 99% sure it is FRANKTON JUNCTION RAILWAY, the main train station for the city of Hamilton up until recently.

Now only the right one to solve!

Possibly Clarendon?

_________________
Collecting Tasman Empire Airways Limited

Now here is a mystery cover that the detectives among you may care to try to solve. This is a nice cover carried by RTPO that I recently purchased. Here I show the interesting portions of the front and back:


Front of cover to Dunedin with 2d Pembroke Peak, rotated sideways so the town postmark on the stamp can be seen.


Reverse of cover, with the South Otago RTPO postmark, DS.5, 15th September 1900, and with serial "2" indicating a northbound train.

My problem with this cover is working out from whence it came?

All I can read of the "A-class" postmark is the ending, -ERAU. There are two NZ towns (that I know of) with this ending: Kawerau (central North Island), and Hinerau (Hawkes Bay, eastern North Island.)

Date on the pmk appears to be [ ? ] 5 SP 00, so it COULD be the same day as the RTPO pmk on the back: that would certainly make sense if this was sent from a small Southland town, and put on the northbound train to Dunedin the same day (15th September 1900).

Or it could be Kawerau or Hinerau on the 5th, put on a boat to Bluff, then on the northbound train to Dunedin. But that seems an odd way to send mail, and surely there would also be a Bluff backstamp if it went that way?

Your thoughts appreciated.

Panterra,

Are you quite certain these are the only two choices for the postmarker location?

From what I can see, for the location to be symmetrically positioned beneath 'N.Z.' you can only have three letters to the left of the 'R' of 'RAU' of which one is 'E'. The 'W' in 'KAWERAU' has to be at least 1.5 times as large as any other letter - thus eliminating it as a possibility. 'HIN' seems a tight squeeze.

Can you post an enlargement of cancel? Do you have copies of any cancellers containing the missing letters? Might be able to use Photoshop to eliminate or confirm your observation.

Rod

_________________
------------------------------------------
Anyone else accumulating NWPI material for research?

Okay, I think I have got the right-hand one identified at last! Thanks for the suggestion of "Clarendon" but that has too many letters.

Only one I can find that matches up is HINDON RAILWAY, a post office in Otago. Opened on 1st September 1903, and closed on 12th September 1969.

Hindon was on the Otago Central Railway. A nice report on a journey up that rail line in 1927 can be seen here.

Thanks for your suggestion Rod. As the pmks were carved manually, they could have made a condensed W if needed.

There is a Southland location KAWARAU (but note the spelling, which does not have the E like this version.)

You are correct that there MAY be some other small locale ending in -ERAU. I haven't eliminated all possibilities yet, but just wondered if any other folks may pick it. I tried fading down the purple stamp in Photoshop, but that also fades down the grey of the postmark, so not really a solution.

An enlargement of the pmk makes it clearer:


The 15th September 1900 cover (shown earlier in this thread) enlarged to emphasise the postmark.

Now that it is enlarged, it seems clear that the letter before the E is a K, so this now gets almost like a crossword puzzle, with only 2 letters needed, and they MUST form a town in Southland, since it is from a north-bound train.

The solution is PUKERAU, in Southland. Problem solved.

Thanks for the suggestion Rod! I tried examining it with a magnifier, but scanning it at 600 dots per inch seems to have given a much better result. (My response got out of sequence as I was trying to solve that Hindon Railway pmk puzzle all evening while you were posting your message about this cover!)

Good stuff! The 'UK' does jump out although the 'K' almost appears as an 'N'.

_________________
------------------------------------------
Anyone else accumulating NWPI material for research?

Hi Stampboarders

To help indentify partial impressions of NZ postmarks there is a booklet called
"Index of Suffix Letters" by L.G.Dale, published by the Postal History Society of NZ, & I have the 2nd edition from Nov 1998. It provides 3 indexes, actually lists, of last 3 letters, last 4 letters, & more than 4 letters.

With your example you would have found that there is a group for RAU. There are then only 4 places with the 4th last letter being E, & only one withthe 5th letter K: PUKERAU.
Living across the ditch I was frequently stumped until I picked up a copy of this. It's invaluable!

I must admit that I'm now also hooked on NZ mail on rails, & have also found that researching the recipients of mail has also got me right in, but that's another story.

Jeff

Thanks Panterra and Ewen for your suggestions and eventual answer!

Sorry I missed the reply till now

Lundy