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I am very interested in a substitute for stamp hinges that was mentioned in a letter to the editor of the APS Journal.

It was mentioned that "Dotto" glue strips contained an adhesive that could be applied as a stamp mount that would not affect the back of the stamp and would still hold the stamp in place.

The strips come on a roll in a dispenser that you can apply to a surface in a small amount or a long strip. I have used two dispensers, a "Dotto" and a "ArtMinds" product and I find both exceptionally useful.

The glue is semi-tacky and you can remove a stamp and replace it back on the glue again a number of times.

The best feature is that you can mount mint stamps and there is no effect on the mint stamp gum when you remove the stamp. It is held in place firmly and can be readjusted if the placement isn't suitable.

I can visualise this product as a complete replacement for hinges altogether -- the dispenser is completely enclosed and easily used for mounting the stamps.

Using a little arithmetic, my Dotto dispenser contains enough material for mounting 25,000 stamps at a 1/4" glue spot and only costs $7.95.

You can get these at most craft stores like Michaels or similar. Imagine replacing that many hinges and the space required to store them.

Anyway, I would like to discuss this with anyone interested. I have had great success so far in testing this method.

Fred Hatfield

My concern would be that, although short term tests show no damage to the stamp or gum, how do we know that will be the case long-term?

For example, do we know what is the pH of the glue dots and are there any chemicals/solvents that might leach out of the dots and cause damage?

Stamps might remain in albums for many years, so we are not going to be able to know the answer about how safe these are for a long time.

Hi Fred,

Do you know if this is a US only product or can we get it this side of the pond? Also I'd be interested to know just how simple it is to use - do you have any photos you can share that shows it in action?

I share peter's caution about UMM stamps but it sounds ideal for used mounted in albums. I recently bought some remaindered album pages where the old guy had been using 'pritt stick' to mount the stamps as he'd run out of hinges. Most of them just popped off when you flexed the page but the remainder simply floated away when soaked. Does 'Dotto' go hard over time or does it remain tacky?

Jon

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G.B, Barbados, Line Engraved, Intaglio & Recess printed stampshttp://www.barbadosstamps.co.uk

Sounds like something designed with Scrapbookers in mind. I'd be pretty wary of using it on stamps, unless they were stamps you wouldn't mind if they end up in the bin.

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

Putting something with glue, against something else that has glue, would not have very good outcomes in my mind.

I wouldn't trust them without a great deal of testing.

D.

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Visit my Website - http://WWW.DJMSTAMPS.COM for Australia & World Stamps, Collections and Accessories

It says acid free and archival quality on the package. But I would still be very, very cautious with anything of value. But it may be a great solution for low cost items in circuit books etc.

Might go buy a pack and start some testing.

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Listing MNH Canada this Week. - http://www.JaceStamps.com
I do not always get all SB Messages or Emails, Please contact directly stamps[at]jace.net

Folks thought EXACTLY the same about "Crystal Stamp Mounts".

Several BILLION dollars worth of ruined stamps later .......................

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2503

Thanks for all the responses. I have the same concerns about long-time effects but I balanced that against some of the long-term effects of the stamp hinges themselves. I have some "aged" stamps that have hinge particles permanently attached, discoloration that has bled through to the stamp front, etc., so the stamp hinges themselves have a lot of long-term issues as well. Probably there is no perfect attachment.

I have been using the Dotto technique on some approval pages for about six months and so far I see no problems. In fact, the more I use this technique, the more I like it. The application of the dots is easy, fast and allows you to orient the stamp first and then press it to the page when you are satisfied with the orientation.

According to the packaging, the glue is acid-free but I see no claims as to long-time effects.

The tape carrier appears to be the same in both the Dotto and ArtMind products. Application is easy, press the dispenser and roll on the page for the length desired. I use about 1/4 inch, but I have tried less to see if the adhesion is sufficient but since the usage is so economical overall, I really am not too concerned about using too much.

Thanks again for your comments, I am pleased with this so far and it has great potential to completely eliminate the hinge problems.

Fred Hatfield

I would NOT put a little strip of allegedly 'removeable' colour dots on ANY quarter decent mint stamp - or a decent used one either.

Those cheap photo albums with their little similar waxy strips like these, have ruined MILLIONS of stamps.

You get waxy "train lines" on the gum over time.

They too were sold as "removeable" - and fast and easy.

For cheap approvals that you will never see again .. fine, although I can't see why not using hinges in that case is an issue.

fredhatfield

There are some things about which I agree entirely with the prior poster. This is one of them.

KIndest regards

Richard Debney

Question:

Answer:


I completely agree with previous posters - the LONG TERM use of these must be highly questionable. "Acid-free" is not the only criterion, as there are many other ageing factors.

I'd like to see fredhatfield come back in, say, 10 years and show some images of stamps (preferably cheap ones!!!) that he has stored for that time with Dotto.

If the results are good then, we would have an interesting alternative to hinges

It's a date! I'll be here...........

The dots are NOT placed on the stamp, they are placed on the location where the stamp is to be mounted. "Removable" means the stamp can be removed from the dots and the adhesive dots remain on the location not on the stamp.

But this is what some of us are trying to say could be a real problem - the place where that 'dot' touched the back of the MUH Bridge etc is SURE to leave a mark of some kind or at worst bugger up the gum on the stamp....

D.

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Visit my Website - http://WWW.DJMSTAMPS.COM for Australia & World Stamps, Collections and Accessories

Amazing! What a product.

So let's see, the billion stamps and covers now totally ruined via these photo albums that worked EXACTLY the same way (in theory) are all fictional. They cannot be harmed as there was no warning about that.

I get it now. Always believe the manufacturers hype on untested product long term.

I like the idea of this stuff, but only for mounting my Showgard mounted stamps to the album page. It would make any subsequent page re-arrangement very easy to do and would save wasting the mounts. I am not convinced about it being safe to use for attaching unmounted stamps to the album page.

Terry

I use small pieces of double-sided Scotch tape to do the
same thing.

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Jay Carrigan
http://www.jaypex.com

And those can be re-used also....

That was my concern also. So far I have seen no evidence of this occuring -- that's why I mentioned it on this board. Has anyone here had a different experience?

The Dotto package in the above post indicates 49.2 feet/15meters. At 1/4" per stamp that is only 2361.6 stamps not 25,000.

Pop by in 10 years and tell us they are all fine.

Hi

Could not resist a comment.

Anybody who uses anything other than a proper bonafide stamp hinge for used stamps and a hingeless mount for mint never hinged stamps needs their head examined (and their collection confiscated).

It is very frustrating trying to rescue stamps that some fool has fixed to the album with something other than a real stamp hinge. Multiple hinges are also an issue.

Have a thought to the future. We are after all guardians of the future, we alone have the ability as far as we can control to preserve history for future generations.

Regards

John G

Well said.

As a dealer I see all kinds of wacksville things used, when a simple hinge costing 10 a penny would have sufficed.

This grand idea above is costing 10 times what the user imagines they cost,, as his Math was wrong.

One old goat bought over cheap exercise books of stamps once, all neatly wrapped in clear cling-wrap, and affixed with a gob on glue on back of the cling wrap.

It was an Australian mint collection, and he proudly advised me that by buying the cling-wrap cheaply, the entire collection only cost him $15 to mount.

I told him his frugality was admirable and I'd offer him $1000 for it, and $1500 if he went home and spent 30 hours taking them out of the cling-wrap, and putting them into a $25 stockbook, so I could re-sell it easily to NORMAL collectors.

Never saw him again.

This is why I, and lots of other collectors, use stockbooks or Hagners.

No fussing with hinges in the first place.

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

I have removed WAY to many hinge remainders to even think what this stuff will do to gum in 10 to 20 years. Of course, as a mint stamp collector, I think all the NH purists are nuts anyways - and will always favor a light hinge touch.

Are mounts really too expensive if you want album pages and mint stamps? I mean I spent ~ $200 or so ten years ago on mount and I am still using all the mount strips I bought. It should almost be a rule that if you need to start saving pennies on a / stamp basis, you probably need to specialize or start buying stamps that don't appear in kiloware (or just use stock books as someone suggests) I think I now only acquire 50-100 stamps a month, so spending 3c / stamp (or whatever my showgard mount costs are) seems trivial to preserve the stamps (considering the average cost is $5-250/stamp for those stamps)

From reading these threads in the APS, I have these visions of a bunch of elderly collectors wondering whether to pay their heating bill or buy that kiloware packet - and they are trying to figure out how to save a penny so they can go and buy a coffee at the diner or something.....

I guess my point is... if you care nothing for the achival aspects of your collection and are trying to build it on bottom dollar, then it isn't going to be worth anything anyways so you might as well go to walmart and buy a bunch of scott tape and photo albums and knock yourself out enjoying the beauty of stamp collecting. If you want to collect (not hoard) stamps of historical interest (note I don't say rare) then you should be focussed on how best to present and preserve them (rather than the cheapest way to throw them in a book). This might be off-topic, but I have found this line of thinking frustrating and a negative for the hobby at large.

-Jason

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Development Owner of - [*] Stamp Image Bursting Application - http://www.drakeserver.com/
[*] Stamp Album Page Generator - http://code.google.com/p/stamp-pagegen/ - [*] Stamp Web Editor

While it is tempting to find a substitute to hinges, I would be worried what would happen to a collection long term. Plus, based on the reaction to this post, apparently finding an alternative to mount a collection is scoffed at, even if it turns out to be better. Save yourself (or your family) some humiliation when it is time to sell your collection to some haughty dealer who will apparently berate you when your collection come into the shop. Use conventional mounting techniques and maybe get out with only a dirty look for not having desirable enough material for the dealer to buy. (Don't get me wrong: I know there are MANY good dealers out there as well)

Which brings me to another topic mentioned in this thread - the hoarding versus collecting rhetoric. When I stopped collecting about 15 years ago, I never heard people speak negatively about "hoarders" as I do now. Since I've started collecting again about a year ago, there has been an ongoing discussion in the American Philatelist about a poor collector who was raked over the coals for "hoarding." Now, before anyone accuses me for being out of touch, pointing out that "hoarding" has always been looked down upon, why should other collectors care if someone cares to "hoard" where others only buy 50 stamps a year?

Maintaining such a bad attitude about how people collect is having a negative impact on the hobby (i.e. fewer collectors). For those of you that are conscious about the valuation of your collection, fewer collectors means less value in a given collection. I've never collected for profit (though, it is a nice bonus), the vibrancy of this hobby is what keeps stamps from being merely gummed pieces of paper. More collectors, even if they don't collect how we do, is what keeps the hobby fun, interesting, and maybe least important, marginally profitable.

Oooops!

My mistake...

Still a lot of stamp hinges not to buy.

And seeing we all KNOW hinges work and are safe, and we KNOW they cost a ton less, AND are faster to use, I still do not get your point.

You deluded yourself your secret unproven long term method was 10 times cheaper than it really was, and still advocate it?

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Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

The phrase "spoiling the ship for a ha'porth of tar" would appear to apply to this thread.

I certainly will not be gluing my stamps into albums no matter how much the manufactuer tells me it will be fine.

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Collector of: GB Mint, Commonwealth Used, Dragonflies and Charles Darwin, anything else that looks interesting.

Thanks for the spirited discussion -- I am new to this board and since I am not a "professional" stamp collector (I might be categorized as a "hoarder") since I like to accumulate batches of stamps that I can later search through for gems. I enjoy the designs and history behind their issuiance.

My reason for mentioning the alternative methods of mounting was because I seem to always find stamps that have been mutilated or damaged by hinges -- I know that APS has a group that are investigating alternative methods of mounting that are not so damaging by hinges.

There was a letter to the editor in the APS publication from someone suggesting the Dotto technique so I thought I would take a look at it. I found it useful in that the adhesive applied to the stamp page was "tacky" and the stamp applied to it could be removed and re-applied a number of times, maybe 4 or 5 before the adhesive lost its tackiness. There was no remaining adhesive on the stamp and that alone was better than the use of a hinge.

Even better was the affect on mint stamps, since there would be no hinge damage and if the long-term effects continued the non-damage
then this could mean not having to use alternative mounting devices.

This could be a revolutionary incident that solves the problem of hinge damage.

If you are curious or a non-believer, it only takes $2.95 for one of the dispensers and you can experiment with it on your own -- but use some "junk" stamps and be sure to buy the non-permanent adhesive dispenser.

In the meantime, thanks for the discussions, I appreciate it.

This has been a very interesting discussion to follow.

The way I see the problem is not with hinges. It's with the people who misuse them. Though I have 99% of my worldwide collection in stock books, I've played more than enough with hinges. And guess what - I've never managed to damage a stamp by using hinge.

The reason? I never try to pull a hinge off from the stamp. If I want to take a hinged stamp off from page, I simply and neatly try cut the hinge (from root), leaving most of the hinge re-usable.

If I want to take hinge remainders off from back of the (used) stamp, then it's much more easier to re-soak the entire stamp.

When there's a problem, it's usually when the previous collector(s) have misused hinges, or tried to use some homemade solution to attach the stamp. With these cases it's simply much more easier to soak everything than try to take them off.

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See pics of my latest stamp findings at Stamp Collecting Blog.

So, I assume that while the adhesive does not adhere to the stamp when removed, it stays on the album page? Does it dry out and leave no residue? I ask because it would seem you'd not be able to reuse or sell your album pages if you used this stuff?

Even if I could find my barge pole I would not touch it.

Tony

But, hinges were designed to act as just that - a HINGE. Meaning, used properly, my stamps can be easily flipped over to see THE BACK of my stamp. I was taught, and have passed that one to many new collectors, that when you use a hinge, you should learn to moisten only the lower portion only slightly so that only the bottom part of the hinge sticks to the page. This allows you to to (carefully) lift the stamp a bit away from your album page and then turn it over without bending the perfs or stamp itself.
Just my 2 cents, but ---- How in the world can glue work this way? It would not provide a "hinge" effect.
I can see this as an alternate method of adhering stamps if you trust it, but not a substitute as a hinge any more than a mount is. It achieves a completely different effect.

I continue to test the new method of mounting and I find that if you want to examine the back of the stamp, you can completely REMOVE the stamp from it's mount and return it back to the mount after you have examined it. I find that you can remove and return it a number of times as the adhesive remains "tacky" and does not leave a residue on the stamp.

Of course that means that mint stamps can remain "hinge free" if you use this method on them. I have not found any residue effect on mint stamps so far.

There are a number of side benefits to this new technique as well, since you do not have to maintain a stock of hinges, mounting becomes a rapid task and re-positioning a stamp is easy. So far, I am pleased with my tests and it is easy for someone to try it for themselves -- the dispenser is usually priced around $2.95 and can be obtained at many stationery and office supply stores.

I find that it has no more negatives than using stamp hinges. Hinges also use an adhesive that leaves residue on the back of stamps and the new method does not, so it is superior in that respect as well.

Aged collections that used hinges show that the "time factor" of hinges are certainly a problem too and so far the new method appears to overcome that method.

No one used to think/know there was any harm in smoking, or that burning fossil fuels is bad for the environment. And lets not forget the early plastics.

Time will tell.

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Collecting Mongolia; Thailand; Indo-China; Mourning Covers; OHMS.
My online 'store': http://stampsfromaethelwulf.blogspot.com/

......and no one thought that airplanes could fly or photos could move or... I fail to see what relevance this has to coming up with a better stamp mounting method. Especially since you could easily prove it to yourself for a few bucks...

The hobby needs more hoarders. Eventually they will take so many stamps out of circulation that the value of everything will rise.

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With kind regards, Jim

This has been a spirited & interesting discussion.

Many collectors recommend using archival quality dry glue sticks to affix regular mounts rather than activating the moisture activated glue on the mounts. Their arguments are pretty convincing. I wonde if using this product with mounts would offer a significantly enough reduced risk of glue/stamp reaction to make it a reasonable process.

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... Cal
US, Canada, Modern Ukraine; Topicals: Navy, Police-Fire-EMS, Maritime SAR

Yes, the list is endless as some genius THOUGHT no harm would be done.

Asbestos sheeting, Thalidomide, Agent Orange, and basing a Cola drink from Atlanta, using Cocaine.

A simple rule of thumb:

If it's soft, it has something in it to keep it soft. That something can migrate to whatever it's touching. Think of rubber cement at one extreme - it will migrate very quickly and stain whatever it touches.

The adhesive in "Post-it" type notes will also transfer to whatever they touch, although the amount may be smaller and the time longer.

If it's soft, that thing that makes it soft is not water-based (or else it would dry and not be soft anymore).

Archivists only allow products that are reversible to touch anything valuable - and non water-based products are far less likely to be reversible.

It may take a while for the amount of migration to be noticeable, and it might take a while for the substance that migrates to discolor and become visible.

However, I would avoid purchasing any item that I knew was affixed with anything but a water-based adhesive.

By the way - most glue sticks are water-based. You can glue a stamp down with a glue stick and have a pretty good chance of getting it off with a good soaking. Not true if the removable adhesive should harden.

Why take the change that in 20 years you realize that you stained every stamp in your collection? It might not happen, but you increase the odds greatly if you don't use something generally accepted to be safe (mylar-based mounts or hinges)

Glue sticks are NOT water based at all. They are almost 100% moisture free, which is why they won't warp a page. The glue in the stick may be water soluble, which is why it will come off in water, but the stick itself is pretty much moisture free.

That's why I use glue sticks to attach Scott mounts to my stamp album pages. It was recommended to me about 15 years ago by a stamp dealer, and it has worked will for me. I would never dream of applying moisture to the back of a stamp hinge. A little too much, and capillary action will suck the moisture right into the hinge.

A stamp hinge is a piece of clear paper. Are you referring to a hinge or a mount?

As for repositioning and removing, sure you can take the stamp off the page and put it somewhere else with a new dab of wonder-adhesive, but the old dab of wonder-adhesive will remain on the page; the next page, or the interleaf or another stamp, or dust, fluff, hair, dandruff, etc will all stick to it, thus rendering the page unusable.

With conventional stamp hinges removal of a stamp and hinge will leave either a small patch of dry gum, or a piece of the hinge. Unsightly, maybe, but still reusable for general purposes (including sales sheets) - but not of course for exhibiting.

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Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics GB stamps info: http://www.norphil.co.uk - also /catalog for our ecommerce site, blog.norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk and Ian_norvic on twitter

Sorry, I mean mount. I use Scott split back mounts with Avery or Elmers glue sticks for all my mounting. No water or saliva ever touches the back of my mounts.

Whether or not you use water, split back mounts have been known to leave a line across the gum mint stamps. Top loading mounts are considered much better by those who have tried both. A small amount of moisture causes no problem with those, as well.

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Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics GB stamps info: http://www.norphil.co.uk - also /catalog for our ecommerce site, blog.norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk and Ian_norvic on twitter

I have tons of stamps in split back mounts that I mounted back in 1991 that I just moved into a new album. Not a single one had an issue with any lines on the back of the stamp where the split occurs. I figure, if they lasted 21 years that way, I'm not too concerned about split back mounts causing me any problems going forward.

Top loading mounts are more difficult to get, and cost more for me. If I am going to switch to anything, it's going to be a hingeless album (which usually has top loading mounts ironically).

The two dealers near me have never had an issue with those mounts either. I don't know if it's climate here outside of Philadelphia in the USA, or what it is, but so far I've been good. Perhaps there is an issue in more humid areas, or maybe it's the way the stamps are stored.

It might be time to buy some of this stuff, dig into my box of "damaged" stamps used for experimentation, and get my chemistry kit out as well.

If I attach a bunch of them to acid free paper, such as Hammermill, that passes my tests as acid free, I can then test again and see what changes after a while.

First, I guess we could take some of the stuff itself, get water with a baseline ph, and then see how much the Ph changes if you add some of this stuff. Then, take some various stamps from my damaged stamp bin and experiment with attaching it to your verified acid free paper. Both old and new stamps.

Most of my stuff is used, so I can't test what happens to mint, but I could see what happens with the rest.

Also, keep in mind that too alkaline can be just as bad as too acid. IMHO, good archival materials should be pretty close to Ph neutral, not just acid free.

Does anyone know if I remove or move a stamp, and there is glue residue left on the page, can I get it off with a rubber eraser or something similar used carefully?

Also, has any one looked at the back of a stamp that this stuff was used on under a microscope to see if you can see residue not visible to the naked eye?

Just a few questions from my scientific nature coming out,..

It might be a while before I have time to get to any of this, but if I do any tests I'll let you all know.
I intend to stick to hinges for my used stamps (don't collect mint). But I find it interesting to see what new products are out there and test them out sometimes.

Once Upon A Time (only a few decades back actually) a tiny little outfit called USPS had a great idea.

"Instead of LICKING stamps, why not sell them like STICKERS .. i.e. self adhesive."

$100,000 of tests were done, and everyone decided they'd work just fine ,and no long term damage would occur to the stamps when stored.

Like many new 'wonder' solutions they goofed badly.

The adhesive lost its "stick" after a while, and the stamps literally fell off their backing paper.

Worse - the wonder adhesive stained the stamp paper, and stained it mottled brown - forever ruining the stamp.

Don't believe me - go buy a few of these and see for yourself - I've seen them 5 times worse than this -

I highly doubt the USPS cares about long term storage of postage. Those stamps were designed to last through the Christmas Card mailing season. If the stamps lasted 6 months, the USPS was good with that.

Well I might have been working with stamps longer than you. Or have a better memory.

At the time collectors were assured by USPS these 1974 10c Xmas self-stick issues had an indefinite life span as mint stamps, based on their extensive tests.

The American Medical Association use to endorse its doctors doing cigarette ads too. I also remember that in roughly the same era.

Times change.