Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

Folks,

For our collectors who are not Australian, Australia is very different from most countries in that we had seperate colonies that produced their own stamps prior to forming Australia. So essentially a group of countries grouped together to form Australia. This happened in 1901. It took us another 13 years to release our first truely Ozzie stamp. It was the famous kangaroo and map stamp. However when Australia was created in 1901, all of the stamps of what was to become states were accepted as postage throughout the new country. In fact these stamps were legal to be used as postage for nearly 100 years after this happened. This created the very unusual situation where what were essentially foreign stamps were accepted as postage in the new country. This is probably a very simplistic but strange explaination for this new thread. I have also been out for lunch and had a few reds so that probably does not help either.

The point of all of this is that when the first truely Australian stamp was released in 1913 it could be combined with the old colony/state stamps and be legal postage. These Commonwealth/State franked covers have become very collectable. I have about five of them and would like to start a new thread on this topic.

This first cover that I am posting is a postcard and was mailed in February 1913. This was very soon after the new Australian kangaroo stamp was released. It has a 1d Red Australian Roo stamp in combination with a New South Wales 1/2d green paying the 1 1/2d rate to the USA.

Do others have any of these Australian Commonwealth/State covers?

Tim

Judging by the quality and angle of the scan Tim, I'd say that those reds you imbibed have worked well.

Great idea for a thread tho!

Here's one well into the Federal period. (1934)

Registered cover Victoria to N.S.W. using combined Kingsford Smith commemorative, and Queensland 1p reds.

Folks,

Further to my previous crappy explaination of Australian Commonwealth State franked covers, there were philatelic covers and genuine commercially used covers in existance. Commercially used ones are very more highly prized that philatelic ones. Cover that are commerically used are considered to be within a certain timeframe from the introduction of the new Australian stamps which happened in 1913. So a Comm/State franking many years after this would be considered to be philatelic and of less value. I would worry about buying a cover that was more than a year after the introduction of the new Ozzy stamp in 1913. This cover has two penny reds and a half penny Western Australian stamp.

Tim

Browny,

True. I own up to the reds. I am also having a bit of trouble with my scanner. That could have something to do with the reds as well.

Tim

Folks,

This time we have a 1913 cover with two 1d red kangaroos and a 1/2 Queensland stamp. A very attractive cover I think.

Tim

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Hi Tim ,
Yes interesting thread, I too have at least one item perhaps more ,I have not seen them for a while but I will put up a scan when I find them (It) ???

I was interested in the: "Please Return the envelope to Post Office,":marking on the last picture, I assume this is a US marking,? is there any backstamps to show the cover was returned Somewhere??

Ron.

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Nunawading Stamp Fair
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Ron,

There are not any American backstamps at all. There is an unusual Queensland stamp. Its unusual in that its on the opposite side of the envelope to the stamps and on the bottom of the envelope rather than the top. Here is a scan. The evelope is the correct way up to the stamps on the front just reversed.

Tim

Ron,

I would love to see scans of your covers.

Tim

great thread Tim. Can you please do a larger scan of that first cover? Doesn't haven't to be huge, but similar to the others would be great. Please

Mike,

Here is another scan of the first cover. Its a postcard from Stockton in New South Wales to Brooklyn New York. The date is 18 February 1913. Very early usage.

Tim

Whilst strictly not 100% on theme, below is a cover which harks back to the time prior to the so called first Australian issues.

The bookkeeping provisions of the new constitution meant that each state must maintain it's own records for postage which was now a Federal power.

Similarly, upon Federation, stamps could no longer be used for revenues purposes (which often included state taxes and duties etc.).

So an item posted to another state which was subsequently readdressed, was supposed to have a further (local) stamp attached. This was strictly speaking the case right up until 13 October 1910, at which time stamps inscribed with the name of one state could be used in any state. I have a few of these I'll post a little later if there is any interest.




This is a fascinating and (I think) important area of Australian philately which is often overlooked,

I'd love to see similar to above as mine is the only one I've ever come across but one would think there'd be a few out there!

Cheers
Mark

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Reddog aka Mark Rowen.
I have a red dog, his name is Buddy.

Mark,

I think that cover is a stunner. I have not seen a cover with two seperate state stamps on it before. They must be rare. I have a few covers using a different state stamp on it than the state it was posted in. Eg Queensland stamp on a cover posted in Victoria ect. I would love to have a few more of those. I thought this practice was legal after federation. Are you saying that was not the case till 1910? I would love to see more scans of yours.

Tim

G'day Didge,

Here ia a quote from Australian Postage Stamps by P. Collas
published by The Jacaranda Press 1965.

"........While the inception of the commonwealth certainly brought about the need to seperate state revenue from federal revenue as, for instance, when derived from Post Office operations, it had not been foreseen that the latter would have to be maintained on a strictly state level. Yet this was necessary, to permit the financial adjustments being made between the commonwealth and each state each year. If all postal revenue had been pooled this could not have been done; and if the seperate series of stamps had been given general validity throughout Australia, post office returns within each state would only have been approximate."

Can't you just hear the beancounters' fists striking tables, "approximate just won't do!"

There are several fascinating stories which emerge with the transition of Australia from the colonial era to federation.

Here a couple of out of state usages post 13 October 1910.








The Vic stamp is ACSC V44, cancelled 17 Feb 1912 in Old Junee, N.S.W.

The N.S.W. stamp is ACSC N14. cancelled 30 May 1912 presumably in Melbourne.

Thanks for the interest,
Cheers,
Mark

_________________
Reddog aka Mark Rowen.
I have a red dog, his name is Buddy.

Mark,

Very nice mate and thanks for the information. Its always nice to learn something new.

Have you, or others, seen examples of states stamps used in other states prior to 1910?

Tim

Hey Didge, was that you who just bought a mixed franking cover on ebay?

I had a look but way out of my price range at the mo

Maybe we'll see it here soon.

Cheers,
Mark.

_________________
Reddog aka Mark Rowen.
I have a red dog, his name is Buddy.

Folks,

Here is another nice mixed franking item. Halfpenny roo with NSW 1d on a postcard from Sydney to New Zealand.

Tim

Folks,

Another mixed franking with the 1d lettercard and 1/2d NSW going to the unusual location of Hungary from Broken Hill

Tim

I like the "Try New York, USA" note!

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Always looking for KGV British Commonwealth, mint, used, covers, anything

Sherro,

That is a bit strange isnt it?

Tim

Hi folks,

Here's another out of state use.




There are a few interesting points about this cover.

First, it seems to be perf 13x11-12.5 irregular comb and thus ACSC Q5 which is scarcer than the usual 12.5, 13 comb.

Also, a close look at the stamps reveals them to be somewhat out of line. On this occasion the jump of the perforator has managed to mirror this misalignment. Otherwise good luck trying to find well centered stamps

_________________
Reddog aka Mark Rowen.
I have a red dog, his name is Buddy.

Folks,

Here is another state/commonwealth franking. A nice use of a Victorian 3d and a 1d Kangaroo to the USA. Its dated 13 March 1913, nice early use. Not sure why it would be at the 4d rate rather than the 21/2d rate? Looks like a standard cover size. Could have been heavier I guess. It certainly is commercial.

Tim

Not mixed Commonwealth/State usage but what about State usage in 1934

Here's one of my covers from another board topic - a 1934 Australia to Papua boomerang FFC, sent from Yanco NSW with Tassie stamps (also note the hugely offset 1 1/2d o/print on 5d.):

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Tony

Folks,

This one has gone a bit quiet and I was lucky enough to pick up a couple more so will get it going again. This one is 2 x 1d Red Roos and a 1/2d South Australian Green. Apparantly South Australian stamps are the scarcest in comination with Commonwealth stamps.

Tim

Andrew,

Its nice to see a few different things on the site. Nice way to learn.

Tim

Andrew,

I struggle with those type of items as well. Much nicer to have something with eye appeal from 3 metres I think.

Tim

I reckon too Andrew.

I would love to begin a collection of Aussie stamps on commercial covers but I think I will need to wait 'till I find a big bulk lot of them, otherwise it will be too expensive.

Cheers,

Ewen

Andrew and Ewan,

Much more fun I think.

Tim

Tim and Andrew and others,

I get a real kick out of seeing these older stamps on paper. It's not just the buzz out of seeing them in all their correct usage glory, although it is really great to be able to see stamps as something used for an actual purpose rather than just as collectables. It is the fact that most were soaked off paper or snipped off the cover and left on piece!

Ewen

Andrew,

Its not much fun having nice items in your collection if you can not share them with others. Thats why the board is so much fun. If I showed these covers to some of my friends they would wonder what the fuss was about.

Tim

All my mates have stopped visiting me - I think they're worried I'll start talking 'bout stamps again!

Ewen

And also what makes it (stampboards) particularly addictive!

Ewen

Andrew and Ewan,

I dont talk about stamps with my mates. Not their thing and thats fine. On stampboards you can find like souls from around the world.

Great thing I think.

Tim

I am not sure if I am as addicted as Andrew. 30000 posts thats amazing.

Tim

Andrew,

You certainly are but thats a good thing. I am aiming for 1000 let alone 30000.

Tim

Hi Everyone,

I had this in another thread but thought it fit in here. What I find interesting about it, is it was sent from Perth (ship mail room 3/10/01) to Stuttgart. Unfortuantely I can't tell the date on the Stuttgart postmark (4/11 maybe?)and no one could read the back for me. (Written in Old German apparently)

Not sure if it is worth much, but I thought interesting.






Thanks
Arlene

That's nice Arlene. An uprated 1d postcard, nicely postmarked with a skeleton CDS, and the date of 4/11 would be correct, showing it took a month to get there. I assume the "40" would be a 40 pfennig postage due mark? Can anyone expand on the correct rate at the time?

As for the translation, it's very difficult to find anyone who can decipher that script

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Always looking for KGV British Commonwealth, mint, used, covers, anything

Folks,

Here is a nice Victorian/Roo franked cover.

Tim

Folks,

Here is a nice Tasmanian/Roo cover

Tim

Don't have any covers, but I could post a few on piece
if there's any interest?

Andrew

Andrew,

I would love to see them.

Tim

Here goes Tim, if you are interested in any of these let me
know by PM and maybe we can work out a swap.
Otherwise I'll probably put it up in the swap section in
a few days.