Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

A few of my customers have asked over the years as to the "Official" way to collect Peel and Stick stamps.

1. If you collect Mint copies, hen they are on Paper,

2. if you collect used copies should they too be collected on paper - or soaked?

3. If "soaked" - how best to do it?

What are the thoughts of other board members,?

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If it erupts, don't blame me!!

I certainly soak P&S used stamps. The issue is, of course that some will simply not come off the backing paper at all (some Italy, New Zealand spring to mind) and some will come off with the gum intact. With a few (no Australian that I am aware of, but certainly some Spanish and US stamps), the entire design vanishes or fades before your very eyes when you immerse them in any form of liquid.

And of course, even a miniscule of gum left on a soaked P&S will attract other stamps from miles around to adhere to it, never to be removed again - not even a resoak seems to help here in most cases.

Obvioulsy with Mint ones, it is possible to peel them from the paper, but they will simply stick to whatever medium you want to display them on and be there forever.

The really fun part with some early P&S stamps is that over time, the gum has deteriorated and the stamps simply fall off the backing. They will, fortunately if you want them in an album, or unfortunately if you want to use them on a letter, not stick to anything.

Hopefully I will still be around 20 years from now to see where all this is going.

Norm

Yes Norm you have grasped the problem

I have a Guy who soaks a Lot of Australian stamps for me,and every now and again he gets some that will NOT come off no matter how many time she soaks,or whatever he does,He has tried,Palmolive,Hot water ,Cold water,Micro wave,Freezer,etc,

but there seems to be some that will not budge,

now the problem is WHAT ONES, this is perhaps why I posed the question,should the collectors of the future perhaps be looking at collecting more stamps ON paper.thus not needing to soak.as it appears that more peel and stick stamps are being issued all over the world.??

Ron.

I soaked some over Christmas. The peel and stick Living Together just don't want to let go of the paper, but I found that leaving them to their own devices for ages in hot water worked. A little massage didn't go astray either. I also noticed that the paper had a yellowish stain where the stamp was, so it's obviously good glue!

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Always looking for KGV British Commonwealth, mint, used, covers, anything

Ron, there is a further problem, as even within single issue I have found some that soak just fine (fine for a P&S, that is) and some that simply thin or will not let go of the gum, even if it is the same stamp as the previous one.

I wonder if there is a slightly different method for P&S gumming on booklet and roll stamps, and whether this is why I have problems with what appears to be the same stamp.

And, how can you tell which is which on two identical stamps both used on paper?

Norm

Since P/S is quickly becoming the norm, the original suggestion does carry some merit.

What I do on those pesky non-water soluable ones is to use lighter fluid to remove them from the paper. After they dry, I sprinkle a little baby powder on the sticky portion. When done, it closely resembles a modern CTO. So far, I have not received any complaints about the nice smelling stamps.

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Single stamps at packet prices!

i Remove all self adhesives from the paper.

METHOD

I place the stamps in a tub with a small amount of water with a pinch of salt (acts as a colour fixative). i then place this tub in the microwave oven. cook on high for about a minute and a half. take out add cold water (as it is now boiling) and i find all stamps generally are either floating loose or can be easily peeled.

this method also works for most stamps - if old ones i try a few bad examples first to test for colour run.

after this stamps go in a wash of palmolive soap (thanks to Glen) and i follow the normal washing and cleansing procedure

Rgds

Colin

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Philatelists are not boring old F A R T S that smell of mothballs

I use boiling water - straight out of the kettle. Some are fine, some are not. And some still come off, full gum intact on the stamp which simply cannot be removed without wrecking the stamp. I am not just talking about Australia here - the early Tonga free forms will not come off the paper under any circumstances.

Norm

yes Norm.

This was why I posted the question, not a question on how to get them off,but the FACT that many P/S stamps do not want to leave the paper.

And perhaps we should be giving newcomers a third option,

Mint,

Soaked off the paper.

Cut neatly around stamp and leave on paper???

Solution for used:
Collect covers !

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Stamp Collecting does not have to be Expensive to be Fun ! - . IPDA Member 2012/13
Stamp Mall over 35,000 items in my Online Store !! on 128 bit encrypted SSL Secure Server.

Self adhesive stamps are best kept a "mint" on their normal backing material, which is a sort of wax/plastic coated paper.

As for used stamps. Their original design was to provide an easy to use stamp with a "Lick and stick" gummed back. There were also stamps that required the user to apply a gum to the back of the stamp. The more recent stamps are self adhesive. The intention of any fixing material used to attach stamps to a folder, or envelope, was to prevent the stamps from being removed accidentally, or on purpose.

Therefore stamps that have been used should not be easily removed by soaking in water and should be left "on piece". The piece can be trimmed to show postmarks as well as the stamp, or if the envelope has some collector significance - eg: "First Day Cover" then keep the whole envelope. I do not think soaking is worth the time, but then that is my choice, your individual ideas may be different.

I have had some disasters trying to soak stamps off envelopes and brown paper, particularly some thick shiny, or art papers. The disasters include fading of colours, total removal of the image and loss of a colour, particularly Gold. These do not become rarities, though some sellers on e-bay have tried to get away with this fraudulent claim.

There is an old adage "You can't make a purse out of a sow's ear." Best to leave a stamp exactly as is and the same applies to cleaning. Some of the most valuable stamps in the World are in terrible condition.

Peter

Most Aussie self adhesives can be soaked off the envelope without too much trouble. Some, however, are almost impossible to get off. The best example of this is the 41c cycling from 1990.

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Always on the lookout for Australian pre decimal First Day Covers.

I read above that a small amount of "salt" in the water helps in the removal of stamps from "paper".

"Salt" I presume means sodium chloride (Na Cl) and would point out that any "Salt" that contains Chlorine, even in the form of a chloride, is a mild bleaching agent.

After soaking in Na Cl one would have to thoroughly rinse away any trace of Na Cl otherwise risk long term bleaching of colours.

I would like to see "never soaked", or "soaked in ....... " applied to all stamps descriptions when sold.

Self adhesive stamps are never "mint" if removed from the backing paper on which they were supplied. A better term for stamps removed from backing paper would be "unused" if not franked, or in some cases "used but unfranked". The better the description of a stamp the better the seller's reputation and the better informed will be the purchaser.

Peter

Hi Peter.

your comments about the salt are interesting. However the table salt is used in a very small concentration and acts as a colour fixative, this helps for older stamps.

I have been using this method for some time and i find that not only does it help with colour it also helps with the glue.

Comments anyone?

Rgds

Colin

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Philatelists are not boring old F A R T S that smell of mothballs

I suppose the only answer is for used self adhesives that cannot be removed from the paper, simply put them in your collection neatly trimmed (the paper, not the stamp). It may make the collection look a little more untidy, but if people wish to have examples of these stamps off cover, this would appear to be the only viable alternative.

The beauty is, that stamp collecting is still an individual hobby, and there is no regimentation as to how exactly one should display ones collection. (Although, I must say my used Tonga freeforms look pretty ordinary in a stockbook).

Norm

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Geelong, VFA Premiers 1878, 1879, 1800, 1882, 1883, 1884, 1886, AFL Premiers 1925, 1931, 1937, 1951, 1952, 1963, 2007, 2009, 2011, .

Colin,

Common table salt is sodium chloride which can also include traces of the element Iodine (Iodised salt). These chemicals dissolved in water, even in minute amounts, are not chemically friendly agents to be used in contact with any known printing ink, or paper.

Any brightness in the inks seen after soaking a stamp in a salt solution, can be associated with "cleaning" rather than "colour fixing" of the ink.

Colour fixing means protecting the ink from fading and water, sodium chloride and Iodine do not protect against colour damage. Therefore, these chemicals can not be associated with "fixing" colours, in fact quite the reverse.

Colour fixing agents are usually expensive "organic chemicals" and should not be confused with "drying agents". Both are often used as after printing sprays (wet or dry), or as mixtures in the printing inks.

Salt is used as a "preservative" in the food industry, but even in this instance the mineral Potassium is preferred to Sodium for medical reasons - (Blood pressure).

Peter

Thanks Peter

We live and learn every day.

Rgds

Colin

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Philatelists are not boring old F A R T S that smell of mothballs

The problem with collecting used ( or unused for that matter ) self adhesive stamps on paper is that no one knows what the long term effects of these types of gums are on the stamps - as they have net been around long enough yet.......however...

if you look at older conventional stamps left on paper for a long time they are never as pristine as stamps which were removed within a short time of their use - even when thoroughly soaked and one could extrapolate that the same could apply for SA s. The question is complicated by the fact that old stamps had organic gums and were stuck on non-acid free envelopes whereas modern artificial gums and relatively acid free paper help, but I personally am not confident that in 100 years ( or even less) this discussion would be even taking place.

My gut feeling is that if it is possible to remove it without damage do so - even of it takes a lot of effort and only stamps which are absolutely impossible to remove should be left ( unless you are collecting the postmark of course !)

The other thing is that research is also ongoing in this matter,and as results become more apparent there will still be the opportunity to remove the stamp in the future.

Malcolm

I either couldn't get the Australian 50c wild flower from 2007 off the paper.

I would be interested what people did/do with the 45 cent Santa, 2007 Xmas stamp. When I took the backs off a couple they really curled and whilst they look beeter after being in the drying books, they are still not great. What have others done?

Jill

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jellybean

SA stamps that I wont soak are the early ones up until the mid 90es (when they got the protective layer between the stamp and adhesive right) and those that are holographic. I'm sure I read that they presented a problem (or maybe it was only the World Stamp Expo 2000 issued by the USA) in as much as the hologram seperated from the stamp backing as well as dulling the hologram.

The longer a self adhesive stamp has been attached to paper the harder it is to remove. To soak them I use hot water; this usually gets the paper off the stamp but can leave the gum. Changing to warm water a further soak and if needed massage the gum from the stamp. If massaging it looks as though it will damage/thin the stamp I find "a thread" of gum and pull it away from the stamp, very carefully while still in the water. This streches the gum off rather than rolling it back on itself. If it doesn't come easly then it gets another soak and pull at the thread till it comes off.

I remember the salt to fix the colour from home dying projects but it was more to "attract" the excess colour so it didn't bleed.

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Michelle

Having read this thread a few days ago I paid particular attention to what happened when I soaked stamps today.

The method was a drop of dishwashing soap in very hot water and then the stamps put into cold water before being placed in a drying book.

A few points -

I have given up soaking some USA scenes as the colour simply disappears, as noted by Norm above. The same applies to Spanish framas although with some Italian framas the colour stay firm but so does the glue. Perhaps I might experiment with salt.
All of the older stamps, whether Australian or other, came off the paper easily.
There were no problems with self-adhesive from other countries (but there were not many) although I have had problems before.
I have soaked a number of the Surfing Santa stamps and they all came out curled up and became brittle. They seem to end up OK but it is a worry.
Probably half (or less) of the Australian self-adhesives came off quickly. I tried a new method this time by removing the old (by this time luke warm) water and soaking again in very hot water. This time I found it easier and was able to remove all stamps. I still have the problem of tearing some stamps because they are sodden after being in the water too long.

I do hope we end up with some genius providing glue for self-adhesive stamps which stops my hair from turning grey(er).

cheers

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Here to learn
Here to enjoy

Jill,

I have been advised that you should not soak this stamp off. It has a plastic coating over the stamp, when soaked in water it curls and wrinkles the stamp (plastic contracts).

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Cheers,
Harry
Illawarra Philatelic Society

It is starting to look like there could be a problem ,if not now,but soon,if the stamp producing companys,start making tougher to remove glue

so the whole point of this thread was to see if perhaps now was the time to start actually leaving peel and stick stamps ON PAPER as a sort of standard practice.
and forget all the problems we are having trying to soak them off

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Nunawading Stamp Fair
Last Sunday of Every Month - Jaycees Hall Silver Grove - Nunawading.

Ronsonol (Benzine) Lighter Fluid is perfect for removing self adhesives?

That's what I am very reliably informed.

On Ozzie and USA ad NZ issues etc.

Anyone tried it??? Let me know, and I'll write it up in 'Stamp News'

I presume all brands work but the person who spoke to me had been using the Ronsonol Brand of Benzine he bought at a hardware store.

The person I spoke to applies a few drops to back of paper it is on, leaves it a minute and says stamp cleanly peels off with care in most cases.

If any gum gook is still there after peeling off, gently rub a Q-tip over it dipped in fluid.

Then rinse in water.

Does not affect colours I am advised.

Glen

Have never used it to remove adhesives, but I have used it for a long time to check watermarks. Really works great. Ronsonal lighter fluid is the only brand I have ever used. I will try it on adhesives and let you know.

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I buy too much, can't sell enough - but the information here is priceless.

tooler seeing you have a can on hand - can you do a quick field test on a couple of USA current stamps, which as we know will NOT soak off in water.

Will do, Glen

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I buy too much, can't sell enough - but the information here is priceless.

A short safety lesson. Benzine is marginally acceptable as a household solvent. Benzene is dangerous, and over-exposure can be fatal. Know what you're using.

Petroleum ether, also known as benzine, VM&P Naphta, Petroleum Naphta, Naptha ASTM, Petroleum Spirits, X4 or Ligroin, is a group of various volatile, highly flammable, liquid hydrocarbon mixtures used chiefly as nonpolar solvents.

Benzine should not be confused with benzene. Benzine is
a mixture of alkanes, e.g., pentane, hexane, and heptane, whereas benzene is a cyclic, aromatic hydrocarbon, C6H6.

The short-term breathing of high levels of benzene can result in death, while low levels can cause drowsiness, dizziness, rapid heart rate, headaches, tremors, confusion, and unconsciousness. Eating or drinking foods containing high levels of benzene can cause vomiting, irritation of the stomach, dizziness, sleepiness, convulsions, and death.

(all data from Wikipedia)

drowsiness, dizziness, rapid heart rate, headaches, tremors,
confusion, and unconsciousness

Of course, these are also symptoms of attending stamp
auctions.

And these are symptoms of dealing with some sellers on Ebay.

P.S. Sorry to have hijacked your hijack.

It does work. Took the stamps off paper in less than a minute. It leaves a very sticky glue and it takes a long time to rub it off with a Q-tip.

Then you need to wash and clean them, put in a drying book and they will be flat and look pretty good. For the time it takes I won't do it.

I just quit collecting the new U.S. stamps unless something special comes up.

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I buy too much, can't sell enough - but the information here is priceless.

I wonder if *good old alcohol* would do the same trick. After all, it has some of the solvent features as lighter fluid etc. but it would definitely be more collector friendly

Hopefully this stuff works also for new machins.

-keijo-

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See pics of my latest stamp findings at Stamp Collecting Blog.

Sounds like it may be a good way to reuse the clean-skin ones

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If no one else collects Heligoland or UPU how come I have to pay so much ?????

If there is no cancel you could definitely reuse them and not bother with trying to clean with a Q-tip.

Even when the stamp is dried the glue is still sticky. Of course we would not even think of doing such a thing.

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I buy too much, can't sell enough - but the information here is priceless.

Good work Tooler ... so we know first hand it works on USA stamps that are literally impossible to remove with water.

So we now know Ronsonol brand is widely avaialble in the USA and Australia - how about Europe - can anyone advise?

You could most certainly buy it in the UK when I was young - but that was a little while back now Ronson lighters were available just about everywhere and was the generic name for cigarette lighters before Baron Bic cam along with his plastic throw away rubbish

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If no one else collects Heligoland or UPU how come I have to pay so much ?????

tonyevans1 - thanks .. if any UK members can confirm it is still sold there I'll add this info to my current column.

Seeing GB machin stamps have just gone all permanent stick it will be good advice!

How about NZ and Canada availability?

Glen

You guys better hurry. The stock of the Ronson Corporation
(symbol: RONC) last traded at 31 cents with a daily volume of
3,000 shares, pending delisting by Nasdaq; in 2006, it was $3+.

Ronson might make a great corporate shell to start a publicly
traded stamp company.

I'm having a lot of trouble with many of the recent Australian self-adhesives. Yesterday I soaked 100 of the Films and 50 of the Megafauna. About 2/3 of the Films and 1/2 of the Megafauna survived the process. A few more came through with some residual spots of adhesive. The rest were thinned or torn to pieces.

In the past I have generally suffered a 10% loss when soaking Australian self-adhesives, but the latest ones are running at 40-50%. Any advice is welcome.

I have also tried the Ronsonol method of removing used self adhesive US stamps from piece, as illustrated by Tooler, with some success.

He notes that some adhesive remains on the stamp and can make the back sticky. I discovered that this can be removed by lightly rubbing the back of the stamp with your finger, when the stamp is still wet with the fluid. The residual gum balls up and can be taken off.

The fluid is hard on postmarks.

The technique doesn't work on all of the US self adhesive stamps.

I've also tried denatured alcohol. It does not work well or at all.

It is such a pain to do this that I simply don't collect used US any more. I have never collected modern mint US. So, I am now a classic US collector, I guess.

Cheers,
Peter

I've used an alcohol for the recent 2008 GB Christmas stamps and it worked well. Hopefully it'll also work for the new machins.

I'm a chemist by profession and I'd certainly back up any warnings about using benzene at home. It's banned at work for health and safety reasons and has been for ages.

If you do use it, be very careful.

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Sounds like next Friday night in London:

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Before we wander too far into warnings and things I think if you are a Chemist you might assure members that Ronsonol is NOT Benzene .. correct?

Obviously keeping this stuff away from naked flame is common sense but it is NOT Benzene AFAIK?

naph·tha (nfth, np-)
n.
Any of several flammable liquid mixtures of hydrocarbons distilled from petroleum, coal tar, or natural gas and used as solvents and in making various chemicals.

Correct. From what I've read, Ronsonol is not benzene.

But for some of our readers who never dreamed there were two
different solvents (one of them hazardous) with nearly-identical
names, the warning was appropriate.

Ronsonol appears to be a suitable, inexpensive, long-established
chemical for the job you want to do.

Sorry guys but I have to disagree with you.

Naphta, like benzene, is also a carcinogen...

And having said that and to compund the effects, Naphta is rarely pure and Ronsonol formulas do contain ethylbenzene or benzene and much of the health hazards listed previously also apply to Naphta.

The MSDS spec sheet for ronsonol makes for an intersting read.

I'm not a chemist, I'm just a biologist...

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I'm always looking for lots of Canada Small Queens Sc#34 to 45 AND for stamp trading/swaping partners. Cheers. Al F.

Yikes. No more input from me, on the big R. I defer to the
scientists. But our EPA hasn't banned it, or even regulated
it -- isn't that a good sign?

For watermarking, I have one very shiny ceramic black tile,
like you would install in a bathroom. Lay a stamp on this
tile and the watermark usually pops up, no fluids at all,
no wear and tear on the stamp.

On the other hand, I can't imagine a jet-black bathroom.

I bought Ronsonol lighter fluid whilst in the UK last summer to check some watermarks. So it's still available.
It is also available in Israel. I have some sitting in front of me on my desk.

Clino talked about rubbing the back of the stamp whilst still wet with Ronsonol...but be aware this can be dangerous to the skin. Try to avoid this as much as possible. I use tongs for handling and thin plastic gloves for the rubbing [No funny comments please! ]

Londonbus1.........Non-Smoker