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Hi , if you are keen to part of NZ 1935 Pictorial study group, I am testing the water here to gauge interest, I am based in Auckland for a real time group, or if geographically we are further dispersed maybe we can use this space to discuss the 'issue',

Keen to hear any ideas on how this may evolve,

Cheers Mark

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for more information on NZ 1935 pictorials visit http://www.newzealandstamps.net

Hi Mark,

though I'm no expert for this issue, I'm always interested in it; especially in methods to identify the watermark with no doubts and in good measurement of the perfs.

Regards, Lars (from Germany)

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from beautiful SW-Germany

Hi,
good to hear from you Lars, I to, are no expert but slowly gaining knowledge, I luckily have a expert of a aging distant relative who was gifted a set of 1935 first day issues for being brave and going to the dentist early in May 1935 and has been hooked ever since. He has a emense collection of varieties flaws etc and over the last year I have been getting together and learning as much as I can. He also kindly gifted me a Campbell Patterson Catologue which has been fantastic.

Cheers Mark

_________________
for more information on NZ 1935 pictorials visit http://www.newzealandstamps.net

I bet YOURS look better than THIS group of them!

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=13278

Glen

Ah, your right, but they are getting on in years for sure !

_________________
for more information on NZ 1935 pictorials visit http://www.newzealandstamps.net

Hi Mark

I would really like to see a vending machine leader from any of the 1935 pictorial coils

Have you ever seen one or know anyone who has??

Tony

Tony

Check out Stan Kundin's excellent book "The Vending & affixing Machine Coils of New Zealand"
(was available from the Royal of NZ). Page 73 shows a leader from a 1d kiwi coil.

I assume you meant the vending machine coils rather than the counter-coils? The latter are much scarcer.

chippin

Yes, thanks

I have the Stan Kundin book and when I last spoke to him he had not seen a leader of the 2d or higher values.

I do not have the 1d Kiwi leader only the tails of these coils.

When I have figured out the method of adding images I will some some of this material here.

Although the 2d, 5d, 6d, 8d and 1/- 1935 coils are difficult to get and expensive I have yet to have not yet seen or heard of a leader.

Stan mentions a 1/2d vending machine use with the 1935 but this is very elusive [said with some understatement].

Although the coils are 'rare' they are not impossible

I have often thought it would be interesting for a central body to do a census of those coil pairs still 'living'.

The 8d is the ultra rare one. I know of 2 in Sydney, 1 in NZ, and 2 part coils were sold in Mowbray auctions a year or 2 ago. Very few collections would have full sets of these.

It was interesting to note that the 2d coil sold for $1650 + premiums/fees on Saturday in the Mowbray auction. This is the 'cheapest' of the 1935 coils.

Tony

Tony last I heard you were a qualified teacher, and a whizz on photographs and digital images.

We have 80 year old newbie pensioners posting images quite happily, so YOU have zero excuse!

All patiently explained here for the thickest member.

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=284

Here is the normal 1935 2d coil



and the even rarer



Enjoy
Tony

Nice images Tony.

As you say the counter coils are not impossible and do come to market occasionally - at a price.

As with all these things when a book is published on the subject it raises the level of interest AND the prices. Have certainly seen this with the NZ adsons, following the publication of Jim Robb's excellent book, and the same seems to be happening with coils - even allowing for the fact that Stan doesn't cover counter-coils in his book.

Maybe you guys could work on a 1935 Pictorials book. I don't collect the issue myself but there are a number of specialist collectors within the New Zealand Society of Great Britain and the RPSNZ. Some of whom are Stampboards members.

chippin

Hi Chippin

Having a comprehensive collection of NZ KG6 vending machine leaders it was a great disappointment to then see these two illustrated in the Stan Kundin book.





So many years wasted in not searching for them, and of course they are not to be found now.

Tony

Thought I had better put some more 1935 coil scans up.
How many are out there??
Tony

These are great images to see,

thanks Tony for posting and sharing them.

_________________
for more information on NZ 1935 pictorials visit http://www.newzealandstamps.net

Mark,

If this idea for a discussion group gets off the ground, perhaps some of us could meet at Palmpex (Palmerston North, November 2010). A Sydney-based collector has told me that he intends to exhibit his 1935s there, in which case I might do the same. Of course, for both of us our intentions may not come to fruition. He and I enjoy a friendly rivalry but our collections have never been shown at the same venue. He was awarded Vermail at Adelaide and my best was a Large Silver at Northland so I have to try harder.

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Graeme Morriss - Hon. Secretary, Manly-Warringah Philatelic Society
www.philas.org.au/manlywarringah

Hi Graeme
Thought you may like to see these then:



Tony

Tony,
You seem to have learnt how to post images pretty quickly. You must be more than just a teacher, you must be a mathematics teacher!

I bet whoever paid for that strip of stamps from the vending machine felt ripped off!

Mark,
I see that you are from Warkworth. It reminded me of an album page that I haven't touched since 1971 (and I'm embarrassed to say that it smells like it).

_________________
Graeme Morriss - Hon. Secretary, Manly-Warringah Philatelic Society
www.philas.org.au/manlywarringah

Yep
What I liked about the vending strip was that the couple of dirty patches on every stamp are actually the bruised paper from the 2 main pins.

Your collection must be really expanding now. It is great how it just sort of happens.
I liked your leader for the Kiwi. I don't actually have this leader only the tails - let me know if you see another.
I've seen these in the past but have not yet roped one - strangely it was harder to get the 1d admiral [but I did - thankfully].
Tony

Hi there enjoying seeing those pictures, how about this one I have a bid on in upcoming auction. Its desribed as a "slot machine single used copy , perfect example to show slot machine effect"

Great to see the image of the Warkworth stallite station, thats a couple of Kms from our house.

cheers Mark

_________________
for more information on NZ 1935 pictorials visit http://www.newzealandstamps.net

Mark,

Sorry I have been off the air for a few days.

I don't feel competent to comment on the auction lot that you illustrated. It does seem to have some elements in common with Tony's examples so he might comment. Or Glen may be able to advise on value etc. I'm out of touch with current market prices and I have never seen any examples of this sort of 'damaged' material before (if I may call it that).

To change the subject. Since you have raised the question of an online discussion group / study group, do you think it would be an acceptable idea for me to scan images of my album pages in their current form and post them on a (different) website? I have been reluctant to do that until I have revised them but since you have started the ball rolling ... I would not want criticism of the pages at this stage as I already have exhibition critiques that I want to comply with. But once I start revising the pages I would invite comments. Let me know what you think. It would probably be some time before I got around to doing the scanning.

Also, where are the other NZ collectors who could be contributing to this thread - I know you are out there.

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Graeme Morriss - Hon. Secretary, Manly-Warringah Philatelic Society
www.philas.org.au/manlywarringah

Graeme has stirred me along.

Yes Mark it does show the effect nicely. I much prefer it when the tears are not near the perfs [they are often hard to see and we all know that exhib judges really need clear examples or great writing up and illustration.]

You should keep your eye out for the common commercial kiwi covers as they can lurk nicely there under a cancellation. Also the double rate rail mail covers often used stamps from vending machines.

I guess the rule is 'get any that you see'.



These are really hard to see, they are there -



I guess the edge trimming is the easier way.

In this case the edge trimming is very clear



while in this case



the close up does show the marks



In this case there is a paper join between the 2 stamps on the right and also a shade difference between the 2 strips.



And yes I would like to see the page scans [high definition version if possible].

Aside from the "Captain Coqk' flaw the next well know and perhaps more desired is the 'Teko Teko' flaw on the 2d value.

This is the early state





and
later states 1


later states 2


later states 3


I have not seen any on cover but would like to have one.

Ahhh,I lost that auction for the single slot machine 1d kiwi, it sold for NZ $120.00. But I did win a nice example of a 1d A1 plate block of 10 showing the halo flaw and good decent plate crack. I will post a image when I recieve it.
Really enjoying all the images, the tekoteko image is particulary striking, all my copies are rather minor in comparison.

Mark

_________________
for more information on NZ 1935 pictorials visit http://www.newzealandstamps.net

Good work Mark.
I look forward to seeing the halo flaw.
I don't think I have it.
Tony

Here is the image of the halo flaw and plate crack on plate 1A die one,
" A crack develops on R.7/2 early in the printing forming a 'Halo' above the kiwis head. A crack also forms between the first and second stamps of the sixth and seventh rows, R.6/1 and R.6/2 and R.7/1 and R.7/2. This crack increased in size as the printing progressed"

As you can see this is a good uhm example, I have two examples 'used' as well which I have purchased, I have yet to find one myself , fingers crossed for my next pile of unsorted Kiwis and a wet day !

cheers Mark

_________________
for more information on NZ 1935 pictorials visit http://www.newzealandstamps.net

Nice scan Mark. Very easy to see. I will have to keep my eye out for 1 or 2
Ta
Tony

Tony, I found this image of a Tekoteko flaw on cover,it was in auction recently and I think it sold, Its not very clear from this image, I am not sure of its position, but was listed as the flaw.
Cheers Mark

_________________
for more information on NZ 1935 pictorials visit http://www.newzealandstamps.net

Hi Mark
I think I would like one on cover but this is not so obvious. A good friend in NZ sent me this scan of an official tekoteko. Very desirable.

Tony

I recently found this image on the back of a 1935 1d Kiwi Pictorial, Do you think it is a offset?, worth keeping?
the stamp next to it is a different stamp, I've put it there to show the similarity of font, I have measured and its the same size. Any help would appreicated.
Cheers Mark

_________________
for more information on NZ 1935 pictorials visit http://www.newzealandstamps.net

Mark,

It's hard to know what it is. It seems to be the letters 'W Z' in reverse from 'New Zealand' but how did they get there? You sometimes see this sort of thing on a corner stamp if the paper has been folded over while going through the press but I can't see a fold in your image.

If it is an offset, I certainly haven't heard of any on this issue and it seems too small a part of the stamp design. Stamps sometimes pick up letters that have been written in the space where the stamp is to go - eg '1d' but the colour seems to match the red of the stamp.

The first watermark paper had a reputation for being difficult to print on - too hard to take the impressions easily. If this is first watermark, this might be an example of the sort of problems encountered.

_________________
Graeme Morriss - Hon. Secretary, Manly-Warringah Philatelic Society
www.philas.org.au/manlywarringah

On a second look, I think the stamp may have been stuck on to an existing slogan cancellation or meter label that included the words 'New Zealand'. It has then picked up some of the ink from that.

_________________
Graeme Morriss - Hon. Secretary, Manly-Warringah Philatelic Society
www.philas.org.au/manlywarringah

Thanks Graeme, I think you may be right, the fact that I don't think you find offsets on used stamps, it must be picked up from the paper it was adherred too, although why the font and colour is so similar is a bit of a mystery.
Mark.

_________________
for more information on NZ 1935 pictorials visit http://www.newzealandstamps.net

The first three frames of my collection are now on the following website:

http://www.stampsmw.top1.com.au/fram3501.htm

I shall try to add the remainder fairly soon but it is very time-consuming.
Tony, I am making you a CD-ROM of high-resolution images. Will send it next year.

Graeme

Thanks Graeme
I have had a quick browse, you have a lot of material. This is expanded since I last saw pages.
Looking forward to catch up in the new year.

Have a great Christmas and a fun new year
Tony

Thanks Graeme, really enjoyed seeing those pages . I had never seen the page of "Designs for new issue of postage stamps', is that a original copy?
Have a good Christmas,
Mark

_________________
for more information on NZ 1935 pictorials visit http://www.newzealandstamps.net

Hi, Mark.

No, it's not an original, unfortunately. Warwick Peterson sent me the photocopy unsolicited in the 1980s when I was buying a lot of material from him (the last time I had a reasonable budget for stamp collecting before family reponsibilities took it away).

I will try to get the rest of the pages up on the web soon but it will probably be in the New Year. Perhaps we can see some of what you have? And where are the contributions from the rest of you collectors out there? I see how many page views there have been.

Today I received an Auckland City Stamps catalogue with 10 lots of essays(!). All have price estimates above my budget. I am trying to figure out how I can get just ONE of them. I will have to talk to David Holmes.

Graeme

Yes I saw those 1935 essays in the catogue as well, but out of my budget at the moment as well with three hungry kids, I think I will have to be happy cutting out the reproductions and mounting them in my album.
Spent this morning chatting pictorials' with a 88 year 1935 pictorial expert ,with him showing me all sorts of wonderful items, I feel each visit is a privilage to be able to hear and share his knowledge and I always hope that its not the last visit. I have known him now for twenty years but since I have begun collecting in last two years I have seen a whole new side of him and we have become very close.

I will put some images up in the new year, but my collection is not as set out as yours at the moment,

Mark

_________________
for more information on NZ 1935 pictorials visit http://www.newzealandstamps.net

Hi, Mark

I don't think your material has to be set out. The items that Tony showed above weren't on pages. I'm just putting mine up in their present form so that I can get comments when I start to revise it.

I'm glad you're getting insights from an old-school 1935s collector. I started to put my collection together here in Australia in the 1980s and felt very isolated not having anyone knowledgable to discuss it with at the time. Teaching yourself from the books isn't the same.

I hope everyone has a good Christmas and New Year.

Graeme

All 7 frames are now on the website. I shall try to put up images of new acquisitions sometime but not soon.

http://www.stampsmw.top1.com.au/fram3501.htm
Graeme

Heres a recent acquistion of mine
'a 1935 8d top selv used single with rare shift markings, 15 dots very rare as used.'
and as quoted in the Postage stamps of nz Vol.2
"Waterlow & Sons Bank note Dept. shift markings are found on the top selvedge of the sheets perf. 12 1/2. The following variations of these markings are known:
Two rows of dots, the first containing four, the second three dots; two rows of four dots; six dots in the top row and seven in the bottom; two rows of seven dots, and seven dots in the top and eight on the bottom "

Does anyone collect these? it would be nice to have a set with all the dot variations.

Happy new year,
Mark.

_________________
for more information on NZ 1935 pictorials visit http://www.newzealandstamps.net

Thanks for posting those extra pages Graeme, are they on a stand alone website or are linked from another site ?
Cheers Mark

_________________
for more information on NZ 1935 pictorials visit http://www.newzealandstamps.net

Hi
My website has quite a lot on the 1935 pictorials at:
http://www.nzstamps.org.uk/35pictorials/index.html

Hope someone may be able to help, or add more information, on the following. The 4d has two colours and the centre and frame plate numbers are often at opposite ends of the bottom row. In 1943, stamps were issued from a new double centre plate and strips exist both with, and without, the plate number 4. The obvious explanation, given in the literature, is that one pane in the double plate had number 4 and the other pane had no plate number. However, constant flaws show that both panes exist both with and without the plate number 4. The following example shows only a partial plate number 4.



Hence, I believe that both panes always had a plate number 4 and it sometimes appears on the printed sheets, sometimes does not appear and sometimes appears only partially. In sheets where it does not appear or only appears partially, there is no trace of an albino print. More information and some more scans are at:
http://www.nzstamps.org.uk/35pictorials/fourpence/index.html

Does anyone have any further examples of a partial number 4 or an explanation of the (partial) disappearance of the 4?

You may also be interested to know that the New Zealand Society of Great Britain has set up a discussion board at:
http://nzsgb.boardhost.com/
It is not trying to compete with stampboards and is primarily for NZSGB members, but anyone can browse the site or join it. There has not been too much activity up till now.
Thanks
Bob

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My website: "New Zealand Stamp Images", at www.nzstamps.org.uk describes New Zealand philately, postage stamps, airmails and postal history.

Hi Bob, I've been a regular visitor to your website and have found it a very valuable resource, Thanks for your posting here, I can't help you with that one, but hope someone may shed some light on the partial plate numbers !

Cheers Mark

_________________
for more information on NZ 1935 pictorials visit http://www.newzealandstamps.net

Hi Mark
In an article in 'Aspects of Collecting New Zealand Stamps' published by the New Zealand Society of Great Britain in 2002, Philip Hoare shows two further combinations of dots for the 8d value in addition to those described in Volume 2. They are 1 dot, and two rows of 6 dots.

The 15 dot combination also exists perf 14 x 14 1/2 from printings after plate 3 was returned to De La Rue. Here is an example with 8 dots:



and an example of the 4d with two rows of three dots in the colour of the frame.



It is perf 14 x 14 1/2 and so was printed by De La Rue after Waterlow had returned frame plate 2B. These two examples are the only shift marks that I have.
Cheers
Bob

_________________
My website: "New Zealand Stamp Images", at www.nzstamps.org.uk describes New Zealand philately, postage stamps, airmails and postal history.

Hi
Am I alone in thinking that it is the presence of the Blitz Perfs that makes this issue really special? They add the extra variety that you do not get elsewhere. Here is my album page on the 2d Blitz Perfs. Showed them at the local stamp club's member's night earlier this week.
Bob

_________________
My website: "New Zealand Stamp Images", at www.nzstamps.org.uk describes New Zealand philately, postage stamps, airmails and postal history.

Thanks for your posts, Mark and Bob.

The 'shift dot' items that you have both put up are really interesting. Bob's advice on there being more dot combinations than the books report is great. I find that I can't even keep up with what's in the books let alone make new discoveries myself - I have a high opinion of genuine philatelic researchers.
Is the UK society a very active one, Bob? Do you find it helpful for exchanging information etc? I tend to be the only collector of New Zealand in this part of Sydney - even Tony is miles away.
I didn't know about the different states of the 4d centre plate 4. I don't know the answer but I hope you find out and report it here. I agree that the Blitz Issues are the most interesting. I obtained my used 4d perf. 14 line only a few weeks ago though I had a stamp for years that I had bought as line perf. but was finally convinced that it wasn't.

Mark, my website is stand-alone. The original images aren't stored elsewhere though Tony has copied them to another site where they can be viewed sequentially instead of having to go back to the thumbnails each time. This is the site here:

http://members.home.nl/bas.de.reuver/files/fusker.html?http://www.stampsmw.top1.com.au/image35/Pic35%5B001-156%5D.jpg

I don't really understand how it works.

Graeme

Hi Graeme
I really enjoyed looking through your display of second pictorials. The web allows lots of images to be shown in a way that is just not possible in printed books.

You asked about the New Zealand Society of New Zealand. I look after their website at: http://www.nzstamps.org.uk/nzsgb which gives lots more information.
We have members from all over the world and a journal is published six times per year. There are regional group meetings as well as the London meetings. Every two years there is a weekend meeting which includes two nights stay in a hotel. This year it is in York in September.
Regards
Bob

_________________
My website: "New Zealand Stamp Images", at www.nzstamps.org.uk describes New Zealand philately, postage stamps, airmails and postal history.

Bob

That would be the New Zealand Society of Great Britain

chippin

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16628

I confess to cheating on this pictorial group by making a posting on the main board relating to a 1d Kiwi , I was trying to pick up extra interest in the subject. I am not sure how to make a sub heading under our subject title ( on a particular subject such as Blitz perfs.) that might create more interest and discussion from the 'New post' page.

Cheers Mark

_________________
for more information on NZ 1935 pictorials visit http://www.newzealandstamps.net