Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

So ask the lad to design a stamp; he's on the right track,
many colors and shapes, some countries would pay dearly
to have him on the advisory staff, for his splendid grasp
of geometrics.

He will be the only kid in kindergarten who knows what
se-tenant means.

Do I see a Bishop's Mitre block of four at lower right?
This could be big!

There's generally one or two good finds in those shoe box lots one buys.

This was in one i picked up last week.



Note the sender. One wonders if they were being ignorant, tight or philatelic.

Cheers,
Mark.

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Reddog aka Mark Rowen.
I have a red dog, his name is Buddy.

Righto Tax Cover officianados, I was looking through some of my airmail covers last night and came across this one which could possibly have been AAMC 775 - England - Australia (unofficial) $650 The time frame matches, but somehow, I don't think that it is...

However, how heavy must this have been if this was taxed 5 shillings?

Someone (not me!) has pencilled over 1 oz as the initial postage rate of 1s3d is correct.

What do you think?


front


back

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The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge........

If you read the text description of AAMC #772-774, you
will see that certain flights stopped at Flinders Island; now
THIS is not a cover from that series, but it does have the
word "Flinders," then covered up by Dues beyond that word,
and that may provide a clue to its identification.

It's incomprehensible that the sender could have underpaid
postage by 5 shillings. Can you read the British postmark?

What about the very light postmark that contains the pencilled
word "On"?

The "Flinders" mentioned is Flinders Street, Melbourne, not Flinders Island.

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Always looking for KGV British Commonwealth, mint, used, covers, anything

Doug, Flinders Street, is the main street of Melbourne running past Flinders Street Railway Station.



I believe the pencil notations are by the Postmaster as the 5 Shillings was paid on the 23/12/37 the day after it was backstamped.
I cannot read anything else but here is the postmark at 1200dpi:





Nothing discernible there. Here is a close up of the "On" from 200 x USB microscope..

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The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge........

All my ideas went to Flinders.

The first word in the town name in the British postmark
definitely ends in "...OY" as far as I can tell, and it's part
of a very long name of some 10 to 15 letters, based on
the spacing.

Maybe "Croydon" + more words? The cancel on the stamps
seems to show a "D" after the "OY"?

Was it normal to stick the Dues over the address? If the correct due markings weren't there, I'd be suspicious.

Also, the postmark is just Croydon Surrey. I can't make out the date tough.

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Always looking for KGV British Commonwealth, mint, used, covers, anything

Also odd there's not a hint of a return address...

Could it be CROYDON RAILWAY?

I am intrigued by the 2 different Tax stamps.

Do you think one might have been applied in the UK and the second in Melbourne?

Or is it possible that the hexagonal mark was applied in Sydney enroute to Melbourne?

The backflap is missing which might have held the key to a return address.

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The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge........

The postmark on the 1/- value shows a clear "S" after Croydon. Croydon Surrey was a very common postmark, so I'm comfortable with it being that.

Why do you think it came via Sydney? I'm away from my references for the weekend, but weren't there flights into Melbourne by Dec 1937?

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Always looking for KGV British Commonwealth, mint, used, covers, anything

Quite possibly, but from the UK the route came in from Darwin and then Brisbane, Sydney and then Melbourne.

On 18th October 1937, the inaugral mail flight from Sydney to Melbourne (via Narranderra) by Ansett Airways took place, so there is no reason that it could not have been on that service (not that flight!) AAMC 769 refers.

Here is the extract from Eustis regarding the flight that I thought it was on:

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The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge........

Cross the Tasman the underpayment of letters was observed by the authorities in both
nations. Unfortunately the Kiwis cheated by using one of their ordinary stamps.
Aussies, on the other hand had the "proper" postage due available.

stampmogul

After turning my laptop sideways and upside down, which can be a handy trick to re-train your eye unless you drop the damn thing, I think the date on the CDS on the 3d is 7 Dec 37.

Also, just to point out the obvious, 1/3d x 4 = 5/-

Was there a "per ounce" rate?

_________________
Always looking for KGV British Commonwealth, mint, used, covers, anything

I will make it easier for you sherro! I will turn the image!

That said, I think you are right!

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The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the illusion of knowledge........

Hi Pete and others watching this thread.
Here's an early use of a 3d 'blank base' Aust dues in Hobart. (backstamped Feb27,1903)
Cheers.
Browny.

GB (Torquay) 1863 to Flinders St Adelaide, 9d rate. Nice "Deficient Postage 1d / Fine 6d } 7d" stamp



Adam

There are NO NSW tax marks on this cover.

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Always looking for anything related to NSW tax marks on covers.
www.nswtaxmarks.com for research into this subject

I'm not so sure that it is so incomprehensible.

Below the T 5/- mark, to the left of the 'received' endorsement, has been written 'Over 1 oz', ie over 1 ounce.

If the rate was 1s3d per ounce (or part thereof), then a large letter like this could have been between 2-3 ounces. The additional (up to) 2 ounces would have cost 2 x 1s3d or 2s6d.

If 2s6d is the deficiency, then postage due, being double the 2s6d deficiency, is 5 shillings.

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Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics GB stamps info: http://www.norphil.co.uk - also /catalog for our ecommerce site, blog.norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk and Ian_norvic on twitter

Here's a Special Delivery cover from Oklahoma City, USA in 1958 Taxed at 9cents.

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Donald.
Aus KGV Head Addict !

Although this 1910 cover doesn't have a postage due stamp on it I assume the crayon on the front will refer to a surcharge or postage due. Its from New York to Paris, France per the SS Campania, it's then re-addressed to Germany.

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Donald.
Aus KGV Head Addict !

Here are a few. Don't know where I got them, just laying around in a box.

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I buy too much, can't sell enough - but the information here is priceless.

A question for the Australian Dues Gurus.

I can't recall seeing purple cancel similar to these.

The cancel is 'CHECKING STAFF' with a central number (145 & 230) and I can't make out the inscription at the bottom.

Does anyone have any information re: these?

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We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.

This is an interesting 1940 India to Canada cover which I can't fully make sense of.

It appears to have been posted in Indore on 29 October with the half anna stamp. This was underpaid and the horseshoe INDORE DUE ONE ANNA mark was applied. So far so good. But what happened subsequently?

It was in Bombay on 1 November, but then went to the Dead Letter Office there and on to the Dead Letter Office at Nagpur (which is hundreds of kilometres from Indore) on 6 November. I'm guessing it was returned to the sender, although there is no marking to indicate this, and no return address anyway. It appears that the 9 Pies stamp was added somewhere, and on the back in red ink is written "Reposted with fresh postage SP 11/11", and the new stamp was cancelled at Indore on 11 November. There are no other marks to show what happened in India, but there is a Montreal machine mark dated 31 January.

Does anyone have any ideas what has happened here? Was the red writing put there by the sender or by a postal official, and why is the original stamp cancelled with the red cross? And can anyone make sense of what the red manuscript is above the address?

I confess I'm out of my depth here, Peter, but my reconstruction would be this:

Letter originally posted with the ½ Anna, cancelled at Indore and sent to Bombay for forwarding to Canada. At Bombay it was detected as underpaid, sent to Bombay DLO, which passed it on to Nagpur DLO. (Nagpur DLO seems to have been the main DLO for Central India.) Opened at Nagpur, sender identified, and sent back to Indore. The red ink markings were probably all (with the exception of the 'H'?) applied by a post office clerk at Indore on its re-presentation at the Indore PO. The handwriting looks typical of British Indian PO clerks, as is the use of the red ink. The red cross through the ½ Anna may have been intended rather to cancel the original cancellation than the stamp itself.

I don't know the Indian overseas postage rates at the time, but 1¼ Annas looks pretty light on, even for a surface letter, to Canada at the time. Perhaps it was a card or printed matter. (Though that would usually be marked on the cover.)

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'First I'll steal all the money, then I'll kill everybody, and then I'll go away', Père Ubu

The only 2 taxed covers I have

1D die II cover taxed 6 cents.






taxed FDC 10 cents

A nice one I picked up some time ago .



I was lucky that it wasn't advertised very well on e-bay .

Tracy

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Shall always be a Covernut.
Postal History site www.Brads64.com

I think what has happened to peterh's this Indian cover above is as follows:-

1st Posted to Canada but underpaid.

2nd Opened in DLO and via second DLO office returned to original sender, possibly in a separate cover.

3rd The sender then reposted item with correct 9 pies Printed Matter Postage.

4th The original stamp and postage Due mark cancelled in Post Office red ink (I believe but cannot definitely confirm) at the Post Office when reposted on the 11 Nov. This would have been done to show that both P.Due mark and original 1/2 anna stamp were redundant.

I have seen other 9 pie Indian printed matter rates to overseas destinations in the G6R period. The printed matter content is evidenced but I suppose not 100% confirmed by the fact that the back flap of the envelope does not appear to have been stuck down just tucked in, and the application of the MONTREAL CUSTOMS DUTY FREE purple machine cancel on reverse.

Canada, the same as some other countries such as Australia and S.Africa, use to levy a customs duty on printed matter price lists and similar advertising material, but did not charge for Christmas cards etc. I therefore suspect that this cover probably contained a Christmas/New Year greeting card.

Hope this helps

Sark

Tonga has never issued postage dues. It is extremely rare to find inward underpaid letters being surcharged at any time. Until recently, this was the only "postage due" cover that I was aware of, but I have another, now. It is opened out (not by me), so you are seeing both front and reverse of the cover.

I am not aware of any postage due h/s used by the Tongan authorities at that time.

This cover was posted underpaid to Tonga at Adelaide in 1903 and went via Sydney, addressed to the well known firm of Conrad Lieber. I am aware that they had an office in Sydney, but have never been able to find an address for them in Adelaide.

Can the experts confirm that the 3 tax marks are Australian?

phrag99 what a cracking cover. Never seen a Tonga P.Due cover and such an evocative address. I'm no expert on Australian or Tongan P.Due marks but I would have thought that the T in oval and the 25 CTS marks are of Adelaide but that the 5 was a Tongan mark to confirm the conversion value of the International French 25 cts in local currency.

phrag99
The T25 in circle is definitely SA and recorded in this period and is the UPU standard. The numeral 5 is the same as a recorded SA mark and I would think is indicating 5d due. The T in oval is also identical to a known SA mark but it is not a recorded this early.
I don't have the time right now to study this but I have trouble with both marks being the double deficiency amount when this wasn't introduced until 1907. In 1903 the sending office marked the single deficiency amount.

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Always looking for anything related to NSW tax marks on covers.
www.nswtaxmarks.com for research into this subject

Saw Warwicks name heading this thread, thought I would post this image, as I am sure he would of enjoyed it,



A 1938 Cover, with a plate one, 1935 3s Pictorial, Cover taxed 'Double deficient postage'.

Cheers Mark

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for more information on NZ 1935 pictorials visit http://www.newzealandstamps.net

A few covers from my collection

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Truth is the daughter of time

Very nice examples of the lowest ½d value, and also the 4d is not common.

Shame the Germans didn't put a stamp on for postage due and then cancel it when the last item was refused. Should have been paid at 4d.

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Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics GB stamps info: http://www.norphil.co.uk - also /catalog for our ecommerce site, blog.norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk and Ian_norvic on twitter

What stamp would they have used? Neither Germany nor
DDR ever issued any postage due stamps, whereas their
cousins in Austria went WILD with dues, probably more
varieties than any other country.

Scott lists Austrian postage dues as #J-1 through #J-267;
can anyone top that?

They could have used ordinary postage stamps like their Swiss cousins

_________________
Ian Billings - Norvic Philatelics GB stamps info: http://www.norphil.co.uk - also /catalog for our ecommerce site, blog.norphil.co.uk, shop.norphil.co.uk and Ian_norvic on twitter

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Wolfgang
Papua New Guinea stamps and postal history: http://www.i-ng.org

An Australian newspaper wrapper posted in Broken Hill NSW to USA with postage due



and the reverse side; all I can make out on the oval stamp is "EXCHANGE HOTEL" at the top and " WEST, ROUND HILL." in the centre.

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Jan Kosniowski - always seeking newspaper wrappers
http://www.stampdomain.com

Does anyone have a cover or postcard that originated in South Africa in late 1907 to early 1908 that was insufficiently paid and so taxed. These are quite common so someone should have one in their collection.
I am trying to ascertain when the Post Office in Cape Province, South Africa started marking their shortpaid mail with the UPU required double deficiency, instead of the previous single deficiency.

To simplify this I'm looking for a cover/card that was for example 1d shortpaid and therefore marked with a large numeral 1d or 2d.

The UPU implementation date was 1st Oct 1907 but it appears NSW didn't implement the change until about 4 months later.



This cover shows the NSW taxing at single deficiency ie it was taxed as a letter so 1d shortpaid at the conversion rate of 1d =10 centimes hence T10. However the South African marking of 1d if taken as double deficiency which it should have been as an incoming mark tells us it was only shortpaid by ½d. So this suggests that either SA made an error or they assumed that the NSW mark was in double deficiency.

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Always looking for anything related to NSW tax marks on covers.
www.nswtaxmarks.com for research into this subject

A South Australia 1897 newspaper wrapper to London England

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Jan Kosniowski - always seeking newspaper wrappers
http://www.stampdomain.com

In 1966 the method of taxing unpaid and underpaid mail changed from the "centimes" method to the "tax fraction" method ( UPU Vienna Convention). Some postal administrations did not understand how the fraction method was to be implemented. For the first six months of 1966, Canada Post Office taxed some kinds of outbound mail incorrectly. I have been told that this was also the case in Australia. I have written an article which explains the Canadian error:

http://postalhistorycorner.blogspot.com ... ional.html

Do you have any 1966 international postage due covers that have a tax fraction? I am particularly interested in seeing how underpaid post cards and printed matter were taxed during the early months of 1966.

You may find these articles to be of interest as well:

1.Canada Centennial period inbound mail

http://postalhistorycorner.blogspot.com ... rd_21.html

2. Taxation errors during the Centennial Period

http://postalhistorycorner.blogspot.com ... ional.html

3. Charged Poste Restante mail during the Centennial period

http://postalhistorycorner.blogspot.com ... tante.html

4. Underpaid International Air Mail during the Centennial period

http://postalhistorycorner.blogspot.com ... -mail.html

I look forward to seeing early 1966 taxed covers.

philcovex

What a pleasure to see someone doing original
research!

Plenty of original research here
www.nswtaxmarks.com

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Always looking for anything related to NSW tax marks on covers.
www.nswtaxmarks.com for research into this subject

Congratulations to all of you, worldwide, who
have the oomph to expand your specialty in new
directions. Maybe there's an appropriate way that
SB can recognize research (and publication).

The US dealer who sold me this 1957 cover could not explain why the postage due was vastly overcharged.
I am intrigued how the indicated 3c became $1.14.

A "Business Reply" envelope across USA with 34c
postage due affixed. The note inside sets the date
as 1st October,1957.

Yes it is a $100 prize a month for Best Thread ... we need these guys to START a new thread of their specialty!

Glen

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.
Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

Regarding the $1.14 postage due charge,
there were probably 38 pieces
of mail with 3c due, in that day's mail,
or some other combination. It is not
unusual to find all the dues on the top
item, especially where there was a mail
room/clerk which had to keep track of
petty cash. Saved time for the P.O.
clerks too.

This is why blocks of the $5 Postage Due
stamp aren't rare.

This practice of the postage due all being on the top item is usually found on mail to commercial addresses as is the case on this cover and is referred to in the fraternity as 'top of the pile taxing'. It also accounts for a lot of taxed mail not having PD's applied at the destination.

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Always looking for anything related to NSW tax marks on covers.
www.nswtaxmarks.com for research into this subject