Postage Stamp Chat Board & Stamp Bulletin Board Forum
 

Brad,

I think most of us accept your comments about revenue protection, and agree that this has to be the case. So in some ways it is clear that this form of cancellation is a "necessary evil". However, I think there is something that can be done to improve the situation to the benefit of all involved.

Presumably OzPost provide their Posties with the Textas and pens to enable them to do this part of their job.

Assuming that to be the case, why not issue them instead with a small, cheap, re-usable franking kit with a cancel built in using words such as "emergency cancel" or "cancelled at delivery".

I envisage something like a cross between a thick marker pen and a small rubber cds, with it's own ink reservoir (like a pen), but a rubber "stamper" in place of a nib. This would be carried by the postie and a cancel applied to the unfranked stamps just like you use a bingo "dabber". It wouldn't have to be a huge thing - about a centimetre diameter should do the job and be easily carried. it wouldn't need to be date-specific or contain all the details of a traditional "postmark" - just a sort of "postmark-lite".

With the buying power they have, OzPost could probably source these things in bulk almost as cheaply as the Textas and pens they replace, and with a few further advantages:

1. The Posties would not pocket them for personal use as they would only be practical for the purpose intended, hence reducing costs/wastage further. I don't know how much of your stationery is mis-appropriated (and do not wish to cast aspertions on your staff), but in most large companies the stationery budget is enormous.

2. By varying the style/design periodically, or introducing location-specific detail, you would be producing another "collectable" item which would pacify the members of this Forum and improve the image of your organisation. Most PR for OzPost on here is, sadly, negative, and something like this would show you in a positive light - a progressive, listening company which puts the customer first.

3. Your marketing guys could sell these to other Postal Administrations (please - start with Royal Mail!!!), bringing in profit - and kudos - to OzPost.

Be interested to hear your views...

Happy to discuss further.

Edit: I should've patented this idea and profited from it before giving it away to OzPost

What a lateral thinker you are Gav. I would like to see this idea come to fruition. Cheap, overcomes the problem of re-use and leaves stamps in a resalable (on the used market) condition.

However it doesn't overcome the human element, of leaving the stamper behind, or it running out of ink or being malicious.

As to Royal Mail, using such a device: so say all of us...over and over and over.

_________________
Waroff49

The last chapter of the Never_Ending Story is being written.

Gavin's idea is superb.

AP tell us the appalling black texta marks are solely to prevent re-use.

Fair enough.

So Brad, can you take to your next meeting this suggestion that AP buys 10,000 of these and gives them to the vandals who now have texta pens.





Size is about the same as a texta, so easy and light to carry, and they are self inking, so many items at once can be done with clear strikes.

Wording could say in a circle:

Cancelled in Transit

Australia Post
CANCELLED

Australia Post
CANCELLED
Queensland


OR whatever.

No dates or offices are present on texta pen vandalizing, so this does a neater and more efficient and FAR more professional looking job.

They cost $17.48 a SINGLE so 10,000 would cost a couple of bucks apiece. About the same cost as a texta. And as Gavin points out, no one would steal these to take home to the kids like Textas.

http://cahgah.notlong.com

Glen

Thanks, Kev :oops:

Brilliant Idea,Gavin,

I really hope someone futher up the ladder gets your thread,and does something about it,....

_________________
Nunawading Stamp Fair
Last Sunday of Every Month - Jaycees Hall Silver Grove - Nunawading.

Hi All

Sorry about this but i work for AP.The truth of the matter is if it is not cancelled by the clerk at the counter, it will get hit by the marker pen some where down the line. AP are not the benevolent corporation that some think its all about time and money.

The Post Office is understaffed everywhere. Mainly because of bad management decisions and work pratices. Am I bitter you bet dont get me started.

Most AP staff want to do the right thing but do not have the time,You can talk to AP and I am sure someone will tell you they will do something about it but it will not happen. Its a sign of the times customer service last profit first.

Sorry to have a whinge, but its not the poor old postal workers at fault.
.

guzzi ... I think we all know counter staff are not to blame here, but staffers somewhere in transit.

And using these has nothing whatever to do with staff levels at any given time.

Issuing these to such staff will likely not cost any more over a year, than texta pens do now.

It takes less time to use these, not more time, and would not impact on profits whatever.

This does a neater and more efficient and FAR more professional looking job. Something AP is always mindful of appearing to be.

So it is well worth Brad or Noel Leahy suggesting be adopted.
.

I appreciate that Brad has replied in good faith but the fact is simple.

If I purchase a stamp/s to put on a parcel it is my property which is then handed to a postal authority for carriage.

When it is texa or pen cancelled it is my paid for property which is VANDALISED by Australia Post .

Perversely, another situation often occurs where letters in particular pass through the mail system without being cancelled at all, another Australia Post crime, perhaps of slightly lesser gravity, this time by omission.

While I'm at it another beef - why in this day of smart computers can't an old fashioned style circular cancel be imprinted on stamps on envelopes electronically, instead of unsightly bar code or ribbon cancellations?

Surely AP can devote some of their ingenuity they display in designing stamps (holograms etc) into solving some of the probelms above?

Rabbit

Morning All,

Thanks very much for your thoughts into possible solutions to eliminate or at least minimise pen/texta cancelling, I appreciate the solution orientated discussion.

I will keep the board updated with further developments/proposals on this issue.

Regards
Brad

Hi Rabbit,

I am not disagreeing as I do not know whether this is true but can anyone shed any light? Isn't the stamp payment for a service and thus would be the Post Offices' property?

Ewen

The stamp is bought from the Post Office. (ie you then own it).
A stamp can only be used for a postal service once!

Stamps are affixed to a letter (parcel) to show pre payment of a service (namely to carry said letter to its destination).
The stamp (label) is then defaced to stop possible reuse of Post Office services. New stamps need be purchased.

Collectors here obviously want the PO to consider their thoughts on this matter.
The PO want to clear the mails as quickly as possible.

Gavin's suggestion above would satisfy EVERYBODY ... IMHO

... it just needs the goodwill of the PO and a little re-education of postal staff to achieve this.

I am not sure of Brads position in AP but somebody with clout in that organisation needs to put up a very clear and forceful argument for them to do that. If an AP edict said clearly to its staff ' cancel carried items with supplied cancellers and do not use textas / biro's / pens of any sort ' (or words to that effect) and enforced this, surely it would happen 99 times out of 100 !

Dave

Nope Dave,

I still don't get it!

1) At the counter I trade some money for a stamp. The stamp is mine?

2) I then trade my stamp to the Post Office, who in return deliver my mail. The stamp is theirs?

I'm not trying to be smart. I'm seeking to understand who the stamp belongs too.

Cheers,

Ewen

I agree you own it until used to purchase their services.

It is a bit of a mystery I guess who then owns it.

I suppose the PO do (?) but then after defacing it, so that it cannot be used again, they obviously don't care about it, otherwise they would just remove the defaced stamps.

Actually they wouldn't just deface the stamp, they'd remove it and chuck it away without the effort of defacing it.
The PO therefore don't care about it but cancel it soas not to be reused.
The owner then is the recipient, as they then have possession of it.

Very interesting debate ay?

Dave

It's cheaper than attempting to get it back when it can't be re-used anyhow?

Ewen

I still don't reckon they would Dave.

Too much time and effort - they are a business.

Cheers,

Ewen

P.S. Now that we have a Labor Government, maybe they'll buy the PO back, double the number of employee's, mail will go missing, we'll get charged more but our stamps will arrive neatly cancelled?

So the receiver gets to keep it, and own it!
Cheers, Kev.

I am probably arguing with myself out loud above ... but what I have decided is exactly that Ewen ... The PO own the stamp(s) when used to buy a service. But they don't want the stamps, they just want to deface them so that they wont be reused (as quickly as possible ie texta!). The owner then is the recipient of the letter bearing the stamp(s). Possession is 9 parts of the law yada yada yada ...

Dave

Yup... that is what we are saying .. phew!!!!!

Agree Dave and Kev.

The recipient gets to keep it as they are in possession and the PO doesn't want it.

So, does that give us the right to complain about something that we didn't pay for and receive simply through default?

Cheers,

Ewen

Of course! We are their CUSTOMERS ... they are supposed to listen to their CUSTOMERS ... We buy their services / pay their wages etc etc etc ....

Dave

Have just read all this post,with all the comments about who to blame etc.and thought I would put my 2 bobs worth into the mix,

I think one main thing here that EVERYBODY has forgotten is,,, take a quick look at the Callendar, .................. go on do it now, .....................................
now what was the date,, 30th of SEPT 2008.

Good so we are all now are in the 21st Centuary but it appears Aust Post is still lagging behind,

we can put men on the Moon,

sew someones fingers back on,

transplant hearts.and most other organs,

send Text messages,e-mails.

have computers for just about everything,

Security cameras everywhere watching our every move,

Fast becoming a cashless society.

BUT WE CAN T SEEM TO CANCEL A STAMP

Every day of the week I get larger size envelope delivered with NO cancels at all and would say AUST POST would be missing
Millions every year with its inability to just do a simple thing like cancel a stamp. then when they do decide to cancel it out comes the Club and the texta and your local neanderthal
tries to destroy the stamp by force.

COME ON GUYS read the top of this post again ,this is the 21st Centuary,surely you can do better,
I ain,t going to tell you how to do it Unless you pay me Humungas amounts of money,but there is a better way.
Think about it,

_________________
Nunawading Stamp Fair
Last Sunday of Every Month - Jaycees Hall Silver Grove - Nunawading.

Better be careful Mr Boggler ... will one day be a STAMPLESS Society too !!!

What will we collect then ... hair ties !!!

Seriously though ... the PO still only issue stamps because they are bought and collected and therefore raise profits for them!

If they want us collectors to keep buying them then they need to listen to their customers ... US !

A vicious cycle !

Dave

Maybe in the future people will collect texta cancelled stamps?

Maybe in the future there will be so many texta cancelled stamps that stamps with a nice CDS will be VERY sought after?

Who knows,

Ewen

(still gutted after the Warrior's loss)

... perhaps people will collect TEXTAS ! hehe

Dave

POSTAL HISTORY IS THE WAY OF THE FUTURE
its all ready been made,and there is plenty to go round.don,t need any new stamps,

_________________
Nunawading Stamp Fair
Last Sunday of Every Month - Jaycees Hall Silver Grove - Nunawading.

You can call them 'vivid's' Dave, I know what you mean.

Ewen

never mind Ewen ... Manly were far superior and will win the final ... the boyz did well

Dave

When people from accross the world sends me letters, I ask em to use nice stamps and cancels.

I've recived 3 letters from Australia, nice stamps - no cancels at all.

Been thinking of sending em back for some nice cancels ...

Kloster

Kloster .. you are a postman in Denmark I think you told us .. what do you cancel stamps with, in your work duties if not already cancelled?

Do Denmark Post encourage you to use thick black marker pen?

Glen

I think Gavins idea would work but would be better if it were to have a texta or pen on the other end,

The reason for this is The Post Office,s now work under pressure to get the mail out,I know my Postman says he should not even talk to customers,

So in the sorting room the pressure would be even greater,and as the sorters only have 2 hands,,,most of them would prefer to have a writing implement in one of them while handling mail with the other.
they come across an uncanceled stamp,,, black marker or Pen in hand ,,Bang stamp is cancelled,with a scribble,

But if the gadjet Gavin has suggested were to have a circular marker on one end ,,and a pen/pencil/marker on the other ,,the sorter would not need to put down the marker to pick up a circular stamp.but just change ends,cancel the stamp,the next item needs something marked on it,,,just reverse the tool and write,whatever,

Gavin if you do patent this idea.. I,ll go halfs.

Ron.

_________________
Nunawading Stamp Fair
Last Sunday of Every Month - Jaycees Hall Silver Grove - Nunawading.

Hi Kev
I was not in dispute with Gavin,Just Giving add ons to the idea,
If the Postmen had one of these the chances are they would use them,anyway it would cut down the use of textas I am sure,
Also by giving extras, it would become more attractive to Aust Post,, they could see more uses,and be able to justify its use,

By the way I have yet to see my delivery being done on a Boke.

_________________
Nunawading Stamp Fair
Last Sunday of Every Month - Jaycees Hall Silver Grove - Nunawading.

Mr Boggler,

I would have nominated you for post of the week if you'd have posted this earlier. Well said.

Ewen

The new machines we got are canceling better and better - even got a new machine cancel that Post Dk and the Danish Stamp Collectors agreed on would be nice and work for both parties.

But when the stamps havn't been cancelled... well, we got plenty of the typical cheep pens we use to cross the stamps with (I tend to use different types of "crossing", usaly, area, date, year - like the ol revenue cancels from GB)

Well, when we (at least the 20 persons in my group) see something that's surpose to be cancelled for a collector or such, sometimes we get the ol cancel hammer and give it a nice go - Annwiggy can show you how it looks like at my work place atleast.

But the key point is that, to get a nice cancel here, deliver it at the counter, not in the mailbox, and explain what needs to be done! - that usaly gets the result one was looking for.

Kloster

The same thing is happening with US stamps. Either the cancellations either completely obliterate the stamps, or a postie takes a fat magic marker and draws several lines through the stamps, or an advertising slogan for Disney or a movie or another company is sprayed on and destroys the appearance of the stamps.

Sigh, for the good old days of CDS.

_________________
www.thestamppeople.com
www.bygonepostcards.com

As per the U.S. postal service ...

I received a letter packet with some Philippines Spanish-era material on approval, from an associate member of the IPPS, living in North Carolina. There were four stamps comprising the required postage total, in addition to the amount on the postal stationary envelope.

All of the regular postage stamps affixed were crossed out by a black inked pen FOUR TO FIVE TIMES (each).

I guess they didn't want me re-using the stamps in Canada.

It's really quite atrocious when they do that, isn't it. And they do it a LOT. I've seen some otherwise pretty expensive high value stamps completely ruined because of this practice. It's almost enough to make me cry, since one of the things I sell most is postally used stamps.

_________________
www.thestamppeople.com
www.bygonepostcards.com

While we all decry the practice, it is nothing new. Just more exposed today and thicker marker pens.

_________________
Waroff49

The last chapter of the Never_Ending Story is being written.

Oh,

So our mail is ruined due to thicker markers? Sounds 'bout right.

Ewen

Any news, Brad :?:

I swear the one that got hold of this package was in the back sniffing the markers. All postal clerks that use markers must be required to wear a Hitler marker stache as a warning for collectors to use the next clerk!

Lazy Sod actually MISSED one,
you should show it to your Post Office
You never know he may get fired for being Slack.

_________________
Nunawading Stamp Fair
Last Sunday of Every Month - Jaycees Hall Silver Grove - Nunawading.

Are postal clerks........expected to recognise a postmark. If in doubt, mark it, but not with a scent mark.

The problem with that latest parcel is that whoever used the cancel hammer did such a poor job, several stamps has not been cancelled and thus the marker came into use.

That's what I belive happend.

Kloster

I was waiting at a local post office when I noticed a clerk putting booklet stamps onto a small soft parcel. After affixing about 20 stamps she looked at her CDS, hesitated, picked up a bleck marker and killed the stamps.

As far as I am aware, this is against Postal Regulations in that all item posted through a PO should have the stamps cancelled with the PO CDS. Transitional PO cannot used their CDS to cancel an unpostmarked stamp, they are supposed to ms cancel with date/initials, etc.

I think because of the rise in uncancelled stamps because of machines, the use of black markers has risen.

When I post a parcel, I have the stamps cancelled then cover the entire parcel with plastic well taped down, something like Glen does.

Takes time but is worth it as I get the parcel wrapper back in pristine condition.

Davo

_________________
Davo from Oz