FULL history of the unique 1856 1c British Guiana stamp

aethelwulf · Post by **aethelwulf** » 18 Jun 2014 03:23

barkway wrote:Anyone know who the actual owner of the stamp is now given John duPont died in prison about 3 yrs ago? Is it the DE Museum of Natural History? Who put it up for auction?

After he died, it was held by his estate, while the family and the Bulgarian wrestler who was to inherit DuPont's fortune fought it out in court.

Sotheby's lists the owner in the catalogue as being "the estate of John DuPont". The proceeds of the sale, assuming it sells, will go to the wrestler AFAIK.

barkway · Post by **barkway** » 18 Jun 2014 03:47

aethelwulf wrote: After he died, it was held by his estate, while the family and the Bulgarian wrestler who was to inherit DuPont's fortune fought it out in court.

Sotheby's lists the owner in the catalogue as being "the estate of John DuPont". The proceeds of the sale, assuming it sells, will go to the wrestler AFAIK.

Grew up in PA/DE area and remember local media reporting the estate had been settled in court. If "Estate" technically no longer exists (now that court has settled), was wondering who had inherited the stamp. Sounds like they're not saying (by using non-existent "estate" as cover). Member of the family says the judge threw out a lot of the wrestler's claims to his estate, and that coin and stamp collections were left to DE Museum of Nat.History.

billw2 · Post by **billw2** » 18 Jun 2014 04:32

Yup,

Assuming my stupid iPhone doesn't die I'll be there and I'll be happy to post on here.

Capetriangles, this is me: (Ugly guy in the middle)

If you see me there say hi!

Bill

jrobb · Post by **jrobb** » 18 Jun 2014 09:24

fromdownunder wrote:
Global Administrator wrote:
GregPaulFraser wrote:
Did you know they are making a film of his life, where he will be played by Steve Carrell? Should be a good watch, if not a tad ridiculous.
Now that movie I HAVE to see!

Any idea when it is released?
Glen, I don't think this is the Movie you are looking for:

Foxcatcher

The story of Olympic Wrestling Champion Mark Schultz and how paranoid schizophrenic John duPont killed his brother, Olympic Champion Dave Schultz.

Starring Steve Carell, Channing Tatum, and Mark Ruffalo

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1100089/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_2

And Steve Carrell? An excellent reason to avoid this like the plague. the duPont role was originally offered to Gary Oldman, which makes a lot more sense. The release date was pushed back from late 2013 to sometime in 2014. But even now, there is still no official release date.

Norm

The news about today's auction jogged my memory of this news snippet I saw last week:

Foxcatcher's been winning largely rave reviews. It was a nominee for the Palme d'Or in Cannes at the end of May, where it won the Best Director Award. It currently has a "fresh" rating of 88% on Rotten Tomatoes (a film critic review website that aggregates scores), and Carell, Tatum and Ruffalo are all being praised for their performances. No idea whether or not it will feature 1c British
Guiana...

The film is due for wide release this November.

billw2 · Post by **billw2** » 18 Jun 2014 09:25

.
You guys like pics. Well I'm here at Sothebys Manhattan.

No traffic on the way in, to speak of!

And here's Sotheby's!

AMAZINGLY - I got a parking spot RIGHT in front of it on York ave. That NEVER EVER happens in Manhattan!
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Lakatoi 4 · Post by **Lakatoi 4** » 18 Jun 2014 09:33

Could be a good omen

Thanks for sharing and keep those pics coming 8)

goof · Post by **goof** » 18 Jun 2014 09:35

Enjoy Bill, might be plenty of seats free

Thanks for the updates.

regards
Mick

Global Admin · Post by **Global Admin** » 18 Jun 2014 09:38

Bill great to see you are on the case in person, and we will read the sale price here FIRST in print, anywhere on the globe!

Glen

Greaden · Post by **Greaden** » 18 Jun 2014 09:52

Finding a parking spot in that area is an especially good omen. Finding a second 1c Magenta in a random pile of kiloware is more likely.

MargoZ · Post by **MargoZ** » 18 Jun 2014 09:55

Don't forget there is live streaming available if you want to watch it all happen...just on the countdown to the auction now!

http://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/watch-live.html

billw2 · Post by **billw2** » 18 Jun 2014 10:01

Get ready kids

billw2 · Post by **billw2** » 18 Jun 2014 10:02

Opening at $4.5 mill

billw2 · Post by **billw2** » 18 Jun 2014 10:02

At $5.5

ausfoo · Post by **ausfoo** » 18 Jun 2014 10:04

$US7,900,000 - plus all the extra on top

billw2 · Post by **billw2** » 18 Jun 2014 10:05

Sold $7,900,000 plus all commissions.

Global Admin · Post by **Global Admin** » 18 Jun 2014 10:07

.
Invoice price =$US9.48 Million with the 20% commission added. (Plus any insurances and NY sales tax etc.)

Right now that is over $A10.15 Million.

ausfoo · Post by **ausfoo** » 18 Jun 2014 10:07

Anonymous buyer. God knows where the stamp will end up again...

vinobub · Post by **vinobub** » 18 Jun 2014 10:07

Below low est, but still a world record

pookie9121 · Post by **pookie9121** » 18 Jun 2014 10:08

I'm showing it on the website at $9,013,000. Maybe someone forgot to add some more numbers?

billw2 · Post by **billw2** » 18 Jun 2014 10:08

Ahhh you guys kept posting so I had to submit like 3 times haha.

Buyer has, per auctioneer, requested anonymity.

Roughly $9.5 mill with premium. World record for a philatelic item.

And yes, it looks badly faded in person as compared to when I last saw it.

barkway · Post by **barkway** » 18 Jun 2014 10:09

Sold for $US7.9 million plus all add ons: https://twitter.com/TKDanovich/status/479037163343183872

ausfoo · Post by **ausfoo** » 18 Jun 2014 10:10

Big question: Who bought it?!

barkway · Post by **barkway** » 18 Jun 2014 10:12

ausfoo wrote:Big question: Who bought it?!

Some eager beaver reporter will find out and leak it.

Global Admin · Post by **Global Admin** » 18 Jun 2014 10:14

.
Price is over $A10.15 Million.

We were first in the world in print of any form, on the hammer price - well done Bill for being our man live in the sale room!

Took those dolts at Sothebys a minute or so to find a calculator to work out the final price. Like a Monty Python script! And then their own website figure is half a million wrong - clearly they were using the sliding scale (that their website says is their usual) and not the flat 20%.

.

kidstamper · Post by **kidstamper** » 18 Jun 2014 10:18

It was an anonymous buyer.

MargoZ · Post by **MargoZ** » 18 Jun 2014 10:18

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Auction called by David Redden, Sotheby's longest-serving auctioneer who has been with the company since 1974.

He is responsible for a number of record-breaking sales of book collections, as well as for such spectacular individual items as the Magna Carta, sold in 2007 for $21 million.

With a range of expertise and interests , he also orchestrated many of Sotheby's recent creative and innovative sales, including: the private sale of The Forbes Family Collection of Imperial Fabergé; the Tyrannosaurus rex fossil "Sue;" the Estate of Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis; Property from the Duke and Duchess of Windsor; and the celebrated Russian Space History sale.

As Sotheby's longest-serving Auctioneer worldwide, Mr Redden has been at the podium for many of these historic auctions.

In an interview he was asked if he always wanted to be an auctioneer. Apparent he did not:

"After my first few months at Sotheby’s I was asked to do an auction. It was terrifying. My throat went dry and my hand was trembling. I forgot to take notes on who bought what for the first 20 lots. After a few more auctions, the technical parts became automatic".

David Redden holding up the red scrap
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billw2 · Post by **billw2** » 18 Jun 2014 10:19

.
Ok pics!

The little red thing... Yes, it's faded badly IMO

The best I could do of the back...

The place was packed. Trays of food, champagne and Tullamore Dew whiskey as well. The press was there in force.

The auction

The room.

And the best parking luck I've ever had haha!!!

.

billw2 · Post by **billw2** » 18 Jun 2014 10:22

I did record video of it being hammered down, it's a bit big for photobucket I'm sure. When I get home I can upload it to YouTube I suppose.

goof · Post by **goof** » 18 Jun 2014 10:24

Bill

Thanks for the photos and the updates, there are as many in the press as there are in the audience!!

cheers
Mick

ingegné · Post by **ingegné** » 18 Jun 2014 10:26

Been waiting for weeks, had to register to Sotheby's, gave them my credit card number (yes, just to watch), stayed awake until 1.00 a.m., expected a thriller and everything was ended in a few minutes.

Disappointed.

Now I wait for MY auction in Buenos Aires at 2.00 a.m.

Until this morning I was the sole bidder for the lot I'm lurking at US$ 45.00 (my maximum offer $ 80.00) and some clever guy bidded against me and raised his offer to US$ 70 bringing me to $ 77.00

And now I have to follow the auction to be sure that he will not bid again at the last minute

Global Admin · Post by **Global Admin** » 18 Jun 2014 10:26

Brilliant photos Bill -- stampboards was first print media anywhere with photos inside the room as well.

Did you get one of David Redden at the Rostrum?

MargoZ · Post by **MargoZ** » 18 Jun 2014 10:30

And who actually cleaned up form this sale ?(other than Sothebys, of course)

https://thetimes-tribune.com/news/millionaire-killer-s-stamp- ... -1.1704687

Under du Pont’s will, 80 percent of the proceeds from the sale will go to former wrestler Valentine Jordanov Dimitrov of Sewickley and his family members. The remainder is designated for the Eurasia Pacific Wildlife Conservation Foundation, based in Paoli, Pa., which du Pont founded.

Dimitrov, 54, won a gold medal at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics representing Bulgaria. He gained notoriety in 2013 when he returned his medal to the International Olympic Committee to protest its decision to drop wrestling from the program.

The will was contested several times by du Pont family members but was most recently upheld in 2012 in local and state appellate courts. Attorneys involved in the appeal have said the last formal deadline to appeal the will expired in November.

Sotheby’s spokesman Rocha would not elaborate on the distribution of proceeds, saying only that the stamp is being sold by du Pont’s estate.

John Du Pont and Valentine Jordanov Dimitrov

Dimitrov in action

According to wikipedia in 1990 Dimitrov emigrated to the United States, but he also continued wrestling for Bulgaria until 1996. He won a bronze medal at the 1992 Barcelona Olympics in the Freestyle Flyweight 52 kg event and a gold medal in the same event at the 1996 Atlanta Olympics He is a seven-time world champion, seven-time European champion, and the only wrestler to hold 10 medals (7 gold, 2 silver and 1 bronze) from World Championships.

He retired from wrestling after the 1996 Olympics. In 1997 he became a member of the Athletes' commission of FILA, and was the President of the Bulgarian Wrestling Federation from 1998 to 2007. He has been a member of the Bureau of the Bulgarian Olympic Committee since 2000. He is married and has two children.

The will of American multi-millionaire John Eleuthère du Pont bequeathed 80% of his estate to Yordanov and his relatives.

Global Admin · Post by **Global Admin** » 18 Jun 2014 10:39

Bidding started at $US4.5 Million in the room, and quickly rose to the final hammer price of $US7.9 million.

The weight has been estimated to be about the same as the Sweden 3sk “Tre Skilling Yellow” which we know weighs exactly 0.02675 grams (0.0009 ounces).

The Guiana was invoiced for $US9.48 million, so my rough figuring is that gives the stamp the staggering value of some $US350 Billion per kilogram.

Any Math expert reading this that can check that figure please, and post your figure here?

Lakatoi 4 · Post by **Lakatoi 4** » 18 Jun 2014 10:56

billw2 wrote:Ok pics!

The little red thing... Yes, it's faded badly IMO

Only a signature on a bit of red paper left with no way to restore it back either.

Makes you wonder what it will look like in 10 or 20 years time

billw2 · Post by **billw2** » 18 Jun 2014 10:57

Yes I can

$7,900,000 plus 20% is $9,480,000.

Plus NY Sales tax if you live in New York. (Anywhere between 7 and 8.875 depending on locality)

billw2 · Post by **billw2** » 18 Jun 2014 10:59

Global Administrator wrote:Brilliant photos Bill -- stampboards was first print media anywhere with photos inside the room as well.

Did you get one of David Redden at the Rostrum?

Thanks!

I thought I did... I'll look. I do have video saved tho.

Global Admin · Post by **Global Admin** » 18 Jun 2014 11:01

Global Administrator wrote:Bidding started at $US4.5 Million in the room, and quickly rose to the final hammer price of $US7.9 million.

The weight has been estimated to be about the same as the Sweden 3sk “Tre Skilling Yellow” which we know weighs exactly 0.02675 grams (0.0009 ounces).

The Guiana was invoiced for $US9.48 million, so my rough figuring is that gives the stamp the staggering value of some $US350 Billion per kilogram.

Any Math expert reading this that can check that figure please, and post your figure here?

Any Math whizzes out there?

billw2 · Post by **billw2** » 18 Jun 2014 11:03

Bah. Thought I saw $9,400,000 there.

Anyhow look at the pics I posted again. The last pic of the sales room shows the auctioneer.

Allanswood · Post by **Allanswood** » 18 Jun 2014 11:04

US $ 354,392,523,364.49 to the Kilo.

1000/ 0.02675 * $ 9,480,000.00

At todays rate that's $ 379,607,551,401.87 AUD

However I would challenge the actual weight of the stamp (and the 3 skilling yellow) as that means there are 37,383 of them in a kilo. I would seriously doubt that quantity. I would have used the usual figures of about 12,000 or so.

PS - the metric converter I have says that 0.0009 once is 0.025515 gms making the figure $ 371,546,149,323.93 $ 397,981,657,848.33 AUD

Global Admin · Post by **Global Admin** » 18 Jun 2014 11:11

Greg thanks for that.

Over $US350 BILLION a Kilogram is a pretty neat figure.

Its weight has been estimated to be about the same as the multi-million Sweden 3sk “Tre Skilling Yellow” which we know from their very extensive and widely published forensic lab reports weighs exactly 0.02675 grams (0.0009 ounces).

If anything, my hunch is this weighs LESS due to the chamfered corners, hence the per kilo figure will be higher.

Allanswood · Post by **Allanswood** » 18 Jun 2014 11:20

What a shame the Smithsonian didn't weigh it while they had the chance. Although I'd be surprised if they didn't weigh it as part of their testing. They were the last ones to have it "out on its own" and not encased in something.
.

Global Admin · Post by **Global Admin** » 18 Jun 2014 11:22

Well the Tre Skilling Yellow WAS weighed precisely, and as posted, my feeling is this will weight even less due to the 4 missing corners.

billw2 · Post by **billw2** » 18 Jun 2014 11:22

Well,

Isn't this stamp a bit larger than the Treskilling Banco?

Regardless, even if it weighs 10x as much it's still the most valuable item on earth by weight. Heck, I think it was even going by the 1980 sale price!

Global Admin · Post by **Global Admin** » 18 Jun 2014 11:23

pookie9121 wrote:
I'm showing it on the website at $9,013,000. Maybe someone forgot to add some more numbers?

Is this dreadful goof still showing on their website somewhere?

Can someone grab a Snipping Tool image of that please and post it?

Allanswood · Post by **Allanswood** » 18 Jun 2014 11:25

I could ask them - the Smithsonian.

The most valuable item in the world by weight (which it has to be by simple deduction) and yet, no ones actually weighed it!

.

Global Admin · Post by **Global Admin** » 18 Jun 2014 11:28

Yes rated per kilogram, even the Mona Lisa would get nowhere close.

InforaPenny · Post by **InforaPenny** » 18 Jun 2014 11:36

Sold for 9,013,000 including buyer's premium.

Best Regards,

InforaPenny

Allanswood · Post by **Allanswood** » 18 Jun 2014 11:39

Allanswood wrote:I could ask them - the Smithsonian.

The most valuable item in the world by weight (which it has to be by simple deduction) and yet, no ones actually weighed it!
.

I've asked them.
.

Global Admin · Post by **Global Admin** » 18 Jun 2014 11:39

InforaPenny - out of interest have you read a single word of the past 40 posts?

Global Administrator wrote:
pookie9121 wrote:
I'm showing it on the website at $9,013,000. Maybe someone forgot to add some more numbers?
Is this dreadful goof still showing on their website somewhere?

Can someone grab a Snipping Tool image of that please and post it?

MargoZ · Post by **MargoZ** » 18 Jun 2014 11:46

Two hours after the auction has concluded, and the wrong result is still showing,

Here is a link to the results page- interesting to see when its updated

https://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/results.results.sale.pdf/2014/magenta-n09154.pdf