Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by MrBeagle »

Thanks so much, Bill. Your points are well taken. I had not considered the plate wear. So, plate 38 it is.
As always, much appreciation.
Ralph

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Re: Assistance: Re plating GB QV 1841 1d red Imperforate sta

Post by OokamiSopot »

emason wrote:
04 May 2020 05:04
Hello Wilko,

I will have to admit defeat on this one. Thr first letter could be an "I", "H", "P" or "F"; the second could be an "F" or "E". The damage/scuffing to the stamp has removed some of the ink and thus plating evidence with it.

It is unusual to see so much damage to a stamp on cover (particularly to the SE corner) as it is normally protected to some extent by the envelope itself. It's as though the stamp was damaged before being attached to the envelope.
the cover has a receiving mark of 8 April 1841 so it's definitely a black plate
With that date it is also possible to come from plate 12 which was registered on 25th February 1841, and the earliest known usage is 2nd April 1841.
Only now I got to this post. Hope this may help?
bez nazwy1.jpg
bez nazwy.jpg

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by wilko »

I am going to have another go with this one since being sent to the naughty step. The image comes out sideways on my screen but I posted it on the test page and was told it was vertical there, so fingers crossed

red185410.jpg

I did wonder if the left hand letter might be an L, but I am pretty certain it's an I.

There are a few it is close to but the nearest in my opinion are 162, 175 and 177. I have concentrated on the corner letters but might there be anything else which would help to distinguish between plates? For me it's either 162 or 175.
Last edited by AMark on 09 Nov 2020 07:18, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Rotated the above image

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by gavin-h »

Afternoon, Team,

Can anyone help with plating this GH Penny Red with number in Maltese cross postmark, please?
.
GH Penny Red - Numbered Maltese Cross
GH Penny Red - Numbered Maltese Cross
.
Is there any correlation between the number in the MX and the plate for these? Just idle curiosity really!

Thanks in advance for your help.

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

Hello Gavin,

Your 1d red 'G-H' is from plate 38 - first registered July 1843.

The numbered maltese crosses (1-6) were first used in March 1843 (Thank you Badu)
gavin-h wrote:Is there any correlation between the number in the MX and the plate for these? Just idle curiosity really!
There is no hard and fast correlation as any stamp from an earlier plate could, if kept long enough before using, be cancelled with a numbered cross. There are even examples of a 1d black plate 9 having a numbered cross. Although I believe Scott (Pertinax) thinks there may have been an undocumented late use of this plate.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by gavin-h »

Many thanks for your considered reply, Bill,

Much appreciated!

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by pertinax »

emason wrote:
20 Nov 2020 06:01
There is no hard and fast correlation as any stamp from an earlier plate could, if kept long enough before using, be cancelled with a numbered cross. There are even examples of a 1d black plate 9 having a numbered cross. Although I believe Scott (Pertinax) thinks there may have been an undocumented late use of this plate.
Yes, generally I would say plates from the mid-20s to 45, plus plate 9 (printed in red, of course) are involved.

The Alan Druce book sets forth that plate 9 went back to press for a few months in late 1842/early 1843.

The other thing to say is these cancels were used on ALL mail posted in London that was going out of London for 14-odd months; they are common, and the catalogue price for them is the biggest load of BS around!


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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by gavin-h »

pertinax wrote:
20 Nov 2020 09:25

The other thing to say is these cancels were used on ALL mail posted in London that was going out of London for 14-odd months; they are common, and the catalogue price for them is the biggest load of BS around!
Thanks for the additional input, Scott.

Happy enough at three quid even with the creased SE corner and taking account of your comment on CV. 8-)

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by peterh »

Hello all.

I wonder if I may ask for help in plating this Penny Red RA?

The image is not mine. It's on a cover dated November 1841.

The owner states it is 'black plate' 10. This does not look right to me.

My best guess is 'black plate' 8 or 11, or maybe it isn't a black plate at all?

Thanks for any help that can be offered.
Penny Red.jpg

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

peterh wrote:
26 Nov 2020 09:05
My best guess is 'black plate' 8 or 11, or maybe it isn't a black plate at all?
Hello Peter,

I make it plate 8. It has a good example of the stage 1 'O' flaw.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by peterh »

Thank you very much for your help Bill

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Re: recommended QV plate research

Post by hengz »

Hi I am a new collector, does anyone recommender QV plate research online?
I get a link of "qvplate.com" it was error to open. Thanks!

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by wilko »

Some help with this one would be appreciated. It is on a cover dated 26.12.1853. Plates 169 and 170 are close but I have to say that 177 seems to be the best match I can come up with, though this may be wishful thinking. However my stamps of GB vol 1 does not give a release date for plates 176 and 177. It only goes up to 175 which was 15.12.1853.
red1853.JPG

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by fchd »

Can one of the experts check this one for me please?

I bought it on Ebay for the cancel (it's my hometown) where it was stated to be Plate 158. I'm not really bothered if it is 158 or some other plate, but I'd like to label it properly.
Penny Red Plate 158.jpg
SG8 1841 Penny Red stamp with St Columb 678 1844-type cancel

Thank you

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

Hello fchd,

I agree with the filename - "Penny Red Plate 158" ;)
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Badu »

Hi all

Anyone able to take a stab at this one?
1d Red black plate ?
1d Red black plate ?
It's on a letter from Annan to Ecclefechan dated 18 March 1841, so must be from the black plates. I was attracted to it by the double cancellation. Most likely the clerk realised the under-inked cross wasn't good enough so recharged for another strike.

Cheers!

Chris

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by fchd »

emason wrote:
04 Jan 2021 05:44
Hello fchd,

I agree with the filename - "Penny Red Plate 158" ;)

Thank you very much.

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

Hello Chris (Badu),

Your 1d red appears to be lettered 'B-A' after processing by retroReveal. If correct then I would say that it is from plate 8. You can just see a small part of the 'O' flaw and the blur in the left margin by the NW star also point to plate 8.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Badu »

Cheers Bill! Some great detective work there.

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plating GB QV 1841 1d Reds?

Post by dbuk1 »

Image

Hi, trying to find plate for each please,
With thanks
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FL SG8
FL SG8
Oj
Oj

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by dbuk1 »

Hi,
I am selling my collection so trying to see what I actually have. Have spent so long on the first penny reds that I am reaching out on here again.
Where I can tell, they all seem to be small crown. I think HI is an I, the EC looked like 172 but very sketchy. The Ivory head is quite good.
Any help appreciated,
Cheers,
Dave
HI
HI
KC
KC
EC
EC
OF
OF
OF IVORY HEAD
OF IVORY HEAD
Small crown?
Small crown?

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by davidstress »

I just acquired this block of penny red stamps. I would love to know which plate it is from. My best guess is plate 80 based upon the malformed and misplaced letters. Any definitive answer would be appreciated.
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8 1d reds mint.jpg

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Danico80 »

Please help i have inherited this and need help identifying plate/value please. All i know is it is pre1847
20210121_190329.jpg
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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

davidstress wrote:
22 Jan 2021 05:55
My best guess is plate 80 based upon the malformed and misplaced letters.
Image
And you would be correct.

The relevant part from the imprimatur sheet plate 80 LA-MD.
1d red plate 80 block.jpg


A very nice acquisition indeed!
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

A note to everyone submitting images of stamps for plating.

Images taken with a hand held camera are unsuitable for plating as they are usually out of focus, distorted and unevenly lit. Accurate plating involves looking for minute details which are often lost from such images.

For the best chance of receiving a reply to your request, images should be obtained from a 600 dpi flat bed scanner, and cropped so that only the stamp is shown.

And one stamp at a time please, unless it is part of a multiple.

Thank you.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by pertinax »

emason wrote:
22 Jan 2021 07:17
A note to everyone submitting images of stamps for plating.

Images taken with a hand held camera are unsuitable for plating as they are usually out of focus, distorted and unevenly lit. Accurate plating involves looking for minute details which are often lost from such images.

For the best chance of receiving a reply to your request, images should be obtained from a 600 dpi flat bed scanner, and cropped so that only the stamp is shown.

And one stamp at a time please, unless it is part of a multiple.

Thank you.
What he said!!!

Scott
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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Danico80 »

Hi please help identify hope this image is better.
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20210121_215353.jpg
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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by davidstress »

emason wrote:
22 Jan 2021 06:44
davidstress wrote:
22 Jan 2021 05:55
My best guess is plate 80 based upon the malformed and misplaced letters.
Image
And you would be correct.

The relevant part from the imprimatur sheet plate 80 LA-MD.
Image


A very nice acquisition indeed!
Thanks so much!

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by davidstress »

I hope this question about my plate 80 block is not out of line for this forum.
I'm curious about what it's cat. val. would be, and indeed it's actual value.
I know the SG cat. val. of a mint block of 4 and I'm sure this is worth more than twice as much, especially with selvage and inscription. But how much more?
I should add that this block has no gum so that drops the value quite a bit I think.
Any help on this would be gratefully received.

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Danico80 »

I am going to try this again the correctly scanned images. I appreciate any help given. I have a few to check for me please.
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penny reds_3.jpg
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penny reds_1.jpg
penny red.jpg
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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by phrag99 »

Your first post should have been in the new member thread, as per your welcome email.

Suggest it's not too late to rectify your simple error - and you may just receive more responses.

WELCOME TO THE BOARD!

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

And, Danico80, please read this again.
emason wrote:
22 Jan 2021 07:17
A note to everyone submitting images of stamps for plating.

Images taken with a hand held camera are unsuitable for plating as they are usually out of focus, distorted and unevenly lit. Accurate plating involves looking for minute details which are often lost from such images.

For the best chance of receiving a reply to your request, images should be obtained from a 600 dpi flat bed scanner, and cropped so that only the stamp is shown.

And one stamp at a time please, unless it is part of a multiple.

Thank you.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Danico80 »

Can you at least help with the bottom image. These have been scanned in.
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Help plating and finding value penny red

Post by Danico80 »

Please help work out plate and value of this stamp.
Its on a letter dated 1847. Thats all i can tell you.
penny red.jpg
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Re: Help plating and finding value penny red

Post by emason »

Danico80 wrote:
23 Jan 2021 09:43
Please help work out plate and value of this stamp.
Its on a letter dated 1847. Thats all i can tell you.Image
From that small image the best I can do is possibly plate 61, but it could easily be something else.

Your image was scanned at only 300dpi instead of the 600dpi requested. You need to help me more so I can help you.

This is what 600dpi looks like.

Scanned at 600 dpi
Scanned at 600 dpi
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Danico80 »

Hi I have changed scan settings to 600dpi. If you could let me know.

IMG_20210123_0001_NEW.jpg
Last edited by CMJ on 24 Jan 2021 05:46, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Image correctly placed inline
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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Danico80 »

could it be plate 16? I have seen this plate online but it's blurry. You guys must have some amazing tools. I have cropped the scan. Sorry bout all the hassle and posts. Trying to get it right :roll:
IMG_20210123_0001_NEW_NEW.jpg
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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

Having seen the larger scan, I'll stay with plate 61.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Danico80 »

Thank you how much does that make it worth on average please?
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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

Danico80 wrote:
24 Jan 2021 08:17
Thank you how much does that make it worth on average please?
Sorry, can't help with value but others are more able than I.

If the stamp is on a piece or a cover show the whole thing as it will affect the value. If on a cover show the reverse as well.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by dbuk1 »

1d red HI IVORY HEAD
1d red HI IVORY HEAD
1d red HI REVERSE IVORY HEAD
1d red HI REVERSE IVORY HEAD
Hi, finally got my scanner working so scanned at 600dpi
I have some 1d reds that have proved the most difficult for my untrained eye. Any help re. Plate etc very much appreciated.

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

Hello dbuk1,

Your 1d red lettered 'H-I' is from plate 27.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by dbuk1 »

Many thanks,
Letter to Leith is the next one I am struggling with
Screenshot_20210208-214819_Gallery~2.jpg
Screenshot_20210208-201616_Gallery.jpg

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by GB 789 »

First off, apologies as this question is slightly off topic but still to do with the 1841 1d red issue. (I searched but couldn’t see another appropriate thread to message on).

One of my main collecting areas is the 1d red stars perforated issues on blue paper issued from early 1854 onwards. My question is what is the generally agreed date in 1854 when the 1d red imperf was superseded by perforated version? Is there any research anywhere about this particular changeover date?

I have many covers from 1854 with both imperfs (generally up-to Feb 1854) and perfs (from March onwards). I would really like to obtain a cover that has both the imperf and perf stamps on it, however I have only ever seen one such cover come up at auction. Hopefully, I can be pointed in the right direction and can investigate whether some areas were using the 1d imperf later into 1854 after February.

(Apologies again for going off topic - if the mods can identify a better thread to put this in I’d appreciate it. Many thanks.)

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by CMJ »


If I recall correctly, the perforation of stamps commenced at the end of January 1854, these being from stamps also (and already) issued as imperforate - the earliest recorded use of such a perforated stamp is somewhere round the end of February 1854.

As far as stamps from plates not issued as imperforate (plate 178 onwards) are concerned, I think the earliest recorded is mid March 1854.

Chris.


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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by GB 789 »

CMJ wrote:
10 Feb 2021 02:48

If I recall correctly, the perforation of stamps commenced at the end of January 1854, these being from stamps also (and already) issued as imperforate - the earliest recorded use of such a perforated stamp is somewhere round the end of February 1854.

As far as stamps from plates not issued as imperforate (plate 178 onwards) are concerned, I think the earliest recorded is mid March 1854.

Chris.

Thank you I appreciate your helpful comments 😊

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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

dbuk1 wrote:
09 Feb 2021 09:01
Letter to Leith is the next one I am struggling with
That one ('D-F') is from plate 12.
Best wishes,
Bill

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dbuk1
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Location: Worcester, UK

Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by dbuk1 »

Many thanks again Bill, your help is much appreciated

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Benjamming
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Location: Woking UK

Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by Benjamming »

Hello, a first-time post here.
I wonder if anyone might be able to assist me with plating this stamp. Many thanks.
T,J
T,J

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emason
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Re: Assistance re plating GB QV 1841 1d Red Imperforate stamps?

Post by emason »

Hello Benjamming and welcome,

Your 1d red lettered 'T-J' is from plate 22.
Best wishes,
Bill

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