Is this a GB 1935 KGV 2½ "Prussian Blue" stamp shade?

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Is this a GB 1935 KGV 2½ "Prussian Blue" stamp shade?

Post by pigeonface »

Hello everyone.

I am looking at an auction on ebay that ends today and whilst looking through the photos i noticed a Silver Jubilee stamp.

I remember reading an article recently about some of these that were a darker shade.

Does this just look like the normal one?

Here is the link to ebay, the stamp is one the second photo down.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Huge-Lot-World-Stamps-Stamp-Book-Collection-Vintage-/280547984850

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Re: How can i tell if stamp is a prussian blue?

Post by mrboggler »

Keeping in mind the VAST differences in colour showing on moniters which makes it VERY hard to tell .I would suggest that this is NOT Prussian Blue,, the Prussian Blue is MUCH darker than what is shown.
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Re: How can i tell if stamp is a prussian blue?

Post by joelk »

Hi Pigeonface,

MrBlogger is right. Here are two examples: first the Prussian blue from the Gawaine Baillie auction catalog, and then one from my collection. Guess which one will help the retirement fund...

Seriously, the one you show in this lot looks normal (not Prussian blue), and in addition quite tatty (never mind that it's a perfin).



Image



Image

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Re: How can i tell if stamp is a prussian blue?

Post by pigeonface »

Thankyou for the advice. I asked the seller if they could send me a clearer photo of the stamp so they scanned me one, im not sure how to upload from a desktop onto here otherwise i would have just put the scan up. I have to say, it did look darker than the normal one to me but not as dark as the example put on here. I will just assume it is not the rare one!

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Re: How can I tell if stamp is a GB KGV 'prussian blue'?

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Re: How can i tell if stamp is a prussian blue?

Post by mrboggler »

joelk wrote:Hi Pigeonface,

MrBlogger is right. Here are two examples: first the Prussian blue from the Gawaine Baillie auction catalog, and then one from my collection. Guess which one will help the retirement fund...

Seriously, the one you show in this lot looks normal (not Prussian blue), and in addition quite tatty (never mind that it's a perfin).



Image

Nice examples Joelk :D



Image
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Re: How can I tell if stamp is a GB KGV 'prussian blue'?

Post by norvic »

pigeonface wrote:Hello everyone.

I am looking at an auction on ebay that ends today and whilst looking through the photos i noticed a Silver Jubilee stamp.

I remember reading an article recently about some of these that were a darker shade.

Does this just look like the normal one?

Here is the link to ebay, the stamp is one the second photo down.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Huge-Lot-World-Stamps-Stamp-Book-Collection-Vintage-/280547984850
Given that the distribution of the Prussian blue is well documented and very localised use is known for most used copies, there is no chance at all that there is a perfinned example, in my opinion.
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Re: How can I tell if stamp is a GB KGV 'prussian blue'?

Post by phrag99 »

Nice one for sale in this week's Status auction, if you have a spare $8 - 10000.

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Re: How can I tell if stamp is a GB KGV 'prussian blue'?

Post by Sark »

Great question Pigeonface, a very helpful picture from Joelk, and a very good observation by Norvic.

But most of all are you happy its not the Prussian Blue? If it was the chances are that posting details here before the sale might have made the difference between getting a bargin or paying a small fortune!

A real philatelic Catch 22

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Re: How can I tell if stamp is a GB KGV 'prussian blue'?

Post by mrboggler »

Sark wrote:Great question Pigeonface, a very helpful picture from Joelk, and a very good observation by Norvic.

But most of all are you happy its not the Prussian Blue? If it was the chances are that posting details here before the sale might have made the difference between getting a bargin or paying a small fortune!

A real philatelic Catch 22
Sir,, are you suggesting that the Gentlemen who make up the membership of Stampboards would stoop to such a unsporting attempt to overbid a new member who mistakenly posts an interesting link to something valuable, :oops:
It would seem that there are no friends in Business or Stamp collecting :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: How can I tell if stamp is a GB KGV 'Prussian blue'?

Post by Sark »

Mr Boggler Sir

Clearly I would never suggest such an action being taken by a Stampboards member but there are a guests looking in and . . . . . .

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Re: How can I tell if stamp is a GB KGV 'Prussian blue'?

Post by mrboggler »

Sark wrote:Mr Boggler Sir

Clearly I would never suggest such an action being taken by a Stampboards member but there are a guests looking in and . . . . . .

Point Taken.
I knew that Stampboard members would not stoop to such dasterdly doings,as Kazumping a fellow member, :?
But I had forgotten all about those who spend their time spying on our doings,
:shock: :shock: :shock:
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Re: How can I tell if stamp is a GB KGV 'Prussian blue'?

Post by Allanswood »

Would have been fun just to say "Oh my goodness yes it is Prussian!" :mrgreen:
And then privately told pigeonface that no don't bother. :evil:
Ah.... I can be evil! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hook, line and stinker.

(I thought it was to be Gazumped with a G?)
Last edited by Allanswood on 20 Aug 2010 10:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How can I tell if stamp is a GB KGV 'Prussian blue'?

Post by skilo54 »

Allanswood wrote:Would have been fun just to say "Oh my goodness yes it is Prussian!" :mrgreen:
And then privately told jeolk that no don't bother. :evil:
Ah.... I can be evil! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hook, line and stinker.

(I thought it was to be Gazumped with a G?)

Nice One!! :twisted: 8) :lol:

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Re: How can I tell if stamp is a GB KGV 'Prussian blue'?

Post by mrboggler »

Greg I think you are correct it is Gazumped..not with a K.. :oops:
its a word I don,t use a lot.as most of my dealings are with Honest People,
With the exception of "Old Harry" he is a Crafty Old Sod and Gazumps the Grumps at every chance he gets. :lol: :lol:
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Re: How can I tell if stamp is a GB KGV 'Prussian blue'?

Post by joelk »

Now the auction is over, we can reveal it was a truly unique find: the first and only perfined Prussian blue. Wow! :shock: :twisted:


Just kidding. It was an ordinary blue Silver Jubilee stamp, and a pretty crappy one at that. :lol: :lol:

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Re: How can I tell if stamp is a GB KGV 'Prussian blue'?

Post by pigeonface »

Well, i have to say... I am glad that i didn't bother making a bid in the end!

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1935 Silver Jubilee '2½d Prussian Blue', Help with color.

Post by Spartacus »

Hello there,

I have read about the prussian blue variety of the 2½d value from the 1935 King George V Silver Jubilee stamp set that it's one of the rarest British stamps.

What exactly is the shading of the prussian blue? What's the difference?
Does anyone have one so as to compare it with the normal one?

Image

Does it come close to anything from the above scan?

I would appreciate any information on this specific stamp.

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Re: How can I tell if stamp is a GB KGV 'Prussian blue'?

Post by Global Administrator »

Nice range of shades. :mrgreen:

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Re: How can I tell if stamp is a GB KGV 'Prussian blue'?

Post by Spartacus »

Thank you,

Looking for some help with the shadings?

Anything look close to the "pussian blue" shade?

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Re: How can I tell if stamp is a GB KGV 'Prussian blue'?

Post by Allanswood »

There is already an example on this thread.
Prussian Blue is a very dark blue heading into black. None of yours look "black" enough.
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Re: How can I tell if stamp is a GB KGV 'Prussian blue'?

Post by marco76uk »

Just to add a word on this, as the 1935 Prussian Blue is one of those stamps everyone looks out for hopefully, yet many of the images and descriptions online are misleading. It's not surprising, as those deep blues are precisely the colours that digital reproduction hates.

The other day I got the chance to examine a confirmed Prussian Blue, together with the normal Blue.

The standard 2 1/2d is a rich, full blue, which in low light even has hints of indigo/purple. The exact shade can vary, due to printing technology of the time or of course damage to the stamp.

It would be easier if the Prussian Blue was just called "turquoise". Like the other it is an intense colour, but it is a much lighter, greener blue. As such it is less distinct from the other colours in the set, which is why it wasn't chosen for use. Once you have seen the two blues together in real life, there is no way you would confuse them.

Hope this helps!

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GB GV Jubilee Prussian Blue 2½d question

Post by Parisboy »

I guess the answer will be no but I found this stamp in a job lot and wondered if it in any way, shape or form resembles the scarce Prussian Blue shade?

It is a lot brighter in reality than the scan shows and a lot less mucky looking. It has a Coventry postmark posted the 20-something of July 1935.

I assume sun damage but the postmark doesn't look faded so any opinions appreciated.
Image

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Re: How can I tell if stamp is a GB KGV 'Prussian blue'?

Post by Global Administrator »

Not even close sadly. :mrgreen:

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Re: Is this a GB 1935 KGV 2½ "Prussian Blue" stamp shade?

Post by gavin-h »

Always difficult, especially with a term like Prussian Blue which means different things to different people. :idea:

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Re: Is this a GB 1935 KGV 2½ "Prussian Blue" stamp shade?

Post by Parisboy »

Thank you for the replies. I have looked at many examples online but they all seem to be different as the colour doesn't seem to scan well. The example above is the best I have seen and will help so that I won't make that mistake again. :oops:

The post above by Spartacus is interesting as I didn't realise that there were that many shade variations of this issue. Mine certainly shares characteristics with the third one down on the left.

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Re: Is this a GB 1935 KGV 2½ "Prussian Blue" stamp shade?

Post by marco76uk »

Please do pay attention to my above post!

There was quite a lot of ink variation in the standard Ultramarine, plus they fade to a steely-grey that yes, given the terrible variation of colour reproduction in electronic images, means it is easy to think you have found a Prussian Blue and then waste hours staring at images.

The actual Prussian Blue is turquoise, and looks nothing like the standard colour. I sat in Grosvenor auction rooms and examined both versions very carefully - I do know what I'm talking about on this!

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Re: Is this a GB 1935 KGV 2½ "Prussian Blue" stamp shade?

Post by Allanswood »

The prussian blue stands out like a Peacock in a chookpen.

[Image


This is from Stanley Gibbons and gives the best comparison I've seen on the net so far even though a small image. Prussian Blue on top, normal Ultramarine on bottom.

Image

If you don't see a huge difference in colour, then you're colour blind. :(
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Re: Is this a GB 1935 KGV 2½ "Prussian Blue" stamp shade?

Post by marco76uk »

Allanswood - yes, as far as electronic images go, that shows the difference reasonably well. A bigger example here, Prussian Blue on top, so as to see it more easily:

https://www.lichfieldmercury.co.uk/Lichfield-link-rare-stamp- ... story.html
Image
The images people posted above where the Prussian Blue looks almost black, I'd guess those come from bad 1970s reprints, as seen on this page:

https://www.silverjubileestamps.com/html/serial_salutes.html

I understand Post Office records originally just called it "the turquoise shade", and it was unnecessarily confusing ever to change the name. I guess Prussian Blue sounded more romantic!

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Re: Is this a GB 1935 KGV 2½ "Prussian Blue" stamp shade?

Post by Chris55 »

I understand Post Office records originally just called it "the turquoise shade", and it was unnecessarily confusing ever to change the name. I guess Prussian Blue sounded more romantic!
Looking at my Michel colour chart I would say that "prussian blue" is not far out.

Prussian blue is definitely not "nearly black" although it can be when mixed in oil paints according to wikipedia:
Prussian blue is strongly colored and tends towards black and dark blue when mixed into oil paints. The exact hue depends on the method of preparation, which dictates the particle size. The intense blue color of Prussian blue is associated with the energy of the transfer of electrons from Fe(II) to Fe(III). Many such mixed-valence compounds absorb certain wavelengths of visible light resulting from intervalence charge transfer. In this case, orange-red light around 680 nanometers in wavelength is absorbed, and the reflected light appears blue as a result.

Like most high chroma pigments, Prussian blue cannot be accurately displayed on a computer display. PB is electrochromic—changing from blue to colorless upon reduction. This change is caused by reduction of the Fe(III) to Fe(II) eliminating the intervalence charge transfer that causes Prussian blue's color.
Of course the internet is useless for this. If you google images for "prussian blue" you get just about every colour from ultramarine, through cyan blue, cobalt blue, tourqoise blue to midnight and navy blue :D :D

Even googling the RGB or CMYK values produces a similar range of colours.

In the Michel colour chart "prussian blue" falls between "blue" and "greenish blue":

Image

and here are the basic shades:

Image

Presumably one would need an SG colour chart to be certain what they mean by "prussian blue"

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Is this the GB KGV 2½d 1935 Jubilee "Prussian Blue" shade?

Post by estied76 »

Hi everyone, this is my first enquiry - why not make it a biggy!

I have the attached stamp, I know it's not the 'real deal' but then sometimes when I look at the pictures (and I've poured through 100s - no really!) I think well maybe....in my hand it does not look ultramarine at all...it looks blue...but is it prussian

I have other prussian stamps...it looks like them.

Anyway, I have come to realise that the scanning of stamps obviously does different things to their colours online, but my stamp doesn't have a hint of violet about it.

Can you debunk the attached for me so that I can put it away with the other £1 stamps, or should I get it looked at professionally

Is there anything else I should be looking out for ?

Thanks

Image
Last edited by CMJ on 14 Nov 2017 02:47, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: Added country and other detail to title, and turned it into a question.

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Re: Prussian Blue...well why not?

Post by pertinax »

>Is there anything else I should be looking out for ?

This may sound difficult but in fact after a few tries it becomes easy especially if you also use a magnifier.

Get yourself a ruler - the design of the issued stamp is 22mm high; the Prussian blue variety is 22.25mm high.

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Re: Prussian Blue...well why not?

Post by Global Administrator »

We love new members but we love the ones BEST who bother to READ a few basic rules before barging in starting new threads in totally wrong forum (now fixed) adding a mangled link to a phot s that does not work (now fixed) and using an absurd and meaningless heading that YOU can take the time to fix please.

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Re: GB KGV 2½d Jubilee Prussian Blue...well why not?

Post by gavin-h »

Hi, estied76, as you're out of time, I've used my Moderator tools and edited your heading to read:
Is this the GB KGV 2½d 1935 Jubilee "Prussian Blue" shade?
To answer your (my!) question, it's unlikely (though not impossible) because

(a) it doesn't look like it - although always tricky to know for certain on a scan!

(b) Only 4 sheets of the Prussian Blue were sent to a single PO (sub-office at 134, Fore Street, Upper Edmonton, London) on 25 June 1935 and sold between then and 4 July. It is unlikely (though, again not impossible) that one of these would have found its way onto an item posted in Newquay on 10 July.

(c) the surface of the stamp looks to be dirty or discoloured - quite grey around the top and l.h. side perfs. That is probably affecting the apparent shade of blue.

If you still think it is, then the only way to be certain is to send it with the appropriate fee to one of the expertising groups for a certificate. :idea:

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Re: GB KGV 2½d Jubilee Prussian Blue...well why not?

Post by capetriangle »

estied76

I will bet my life savings on this NOT being a Prussian Blue.

It has the classical ultramarine look about it.

Prussian Blue was called that color for reason, look at the colors on Prussian soldiers' uniforms. It is a much darker, a more turquoise color, even with a slightly greenish cast to it.

It is not worth the ordinary postage on the envelope to an expertizing committee, let alone the minimum fee for a certificate.

Sorry for being the bearer of sad news, although I think you had your suspicions about it anyway.

Kindest regards

Richard Debney

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1935 GB Silver Jubilee 2½d - Just Grubby or Different Shade?

Post by dj_claz »

I have the following pair of 2½d in an album that was in a general collection of bits and bobs.

As you can see one of them is occupying the sacred 'Prussian Blue' spot. The stamp is obviously grubby (discoloured paper amongst other things) and not in great condition. Before I move the collection on, can I just get a few opinions that the general grubbiness has resulted in the different 'shade' and this is just the standard ultramarine? It just struck me as slightly different to other dirty versions that have come in and out of my hands before.

Image

Thanks

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Re: Is this the GB KGV 2½d 1935 Jubilee "Prussian Blue" shad

Post by Global Administrator »

I would not be betting any money on it. :mrgreen:

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Re: Is this the GB KGV 2½d 1935 Jubilee "Prussian Blue" shad

Post by capetriangle »

dj_claz

Certainly NOT the Prussian Blue, no greenish cast.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

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Re: Is this the GB KGV 2½d 1935 Jubilee "Prussian Blue" shad

Post by AdmiralCollector »

Type the following words into Google Images, and you'll get photos/scans of the ultramarine and Prussian blue colors side by side so that you can compare them:

silver jubilee stamp Great Britain "Prussian blue"

Nothing here on this thread (so far) is Prussian blue.

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Re: Is this the GB KGV 2½d 1935 Jubilee "Prussian Blue" shad

Post by Global Administrator »

AdmiralCollector - or far more helpful still, post them side by side HERE and then they will stay here forever. :idea:

Advising folks to wander off to Google to find their answers is not helpful at all, nor how things are ever done here.

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Re: Is this the GB KGV 2½d 1935 Jubilee "Prussian Blue" shad

Post by Allanswood »

AdmiralCollector wrote:Type the following words into Google Images, and you'll get photos/scans of the ultramarine and Prussian blue colors side by side so that you can compare them:

silver jubilee stamp Great Britain "Prussian blue"

Nothing here on this thread (so far) is Prussian blue.

Wow...
Type prussian blue into google and you're likely to be directed straight back to Stampboards... and typing prussian blue into the SB search takes you to a few threads that clearly show the difference!

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=59387&view=previous
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Re: Is this a GB 1935 KGV 2½ "Prussian Blue" stamp shade?

Post by Global Administrator »

Well spotted Greg .. I'll ask BigSaint nicely if he can save these old PB mages forever to our server. :mrgreen:
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Re: Is this a GB 1935 KGV 2½ "Prussian Blue" stamp shade?

Post by dj_claz »

Thanks Capetriangle. Wasn't expecting but just thought I may as well get the experts to have a quick look before getting rid.

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Re: Is this a GB 1935 KGV 2½ "Prussian Blue" stamp shade?

Post by capetriangle »

dj_claz

You're most welcome.

Kindest regards

Richard

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Re: Is this a GB 1935 KGV 2½ "Prussian Blue" stamp shade?

Post by Sark »

Prussian Blue – Identifying is a frequent problem. I can recommend a couple of ways to identify the Prussian from the standard Blue. Find a cheap commonwealth stamp that was only printed in Prussian Blue and buy a cheap copy to retain as your “control”. I use a Mauritius George Vth 15cent from the 1921-34 Defin Series. I would suggest if possible a used example so the effects of a black postmark are taken into account.

I can’t remember if the Prussian Blue is featured on the old style original Colour Guides sold by Stanley Gibbons and as I am away from home at present cannot check, but if it does this would be an invaluable aid to many older style shades. The guide was made up of some 80+ colours (from memory – could be more or less). Each colour is represented in the form of a single colour small definitive size printed label stuck into the guide, I think printed by Perkins Bacon.

As the design used for the colour sample labels had different styles of block colour and shading and bearing in mind that like the original stamps you are trying to sort today were printed some 70-90 years ago I find this as good a guide as any.

I hope this helps.

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Re: Is this a GB 1935 KGV 2½ "Prussian Blue" stamp shade?

Post by Sark »

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=79256&p=50985 ... e#p5098509

Just found this from an earlier thread. Prussian Blue and another 10 or so shades of blue illustrated.

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Re: Is this a GB 1935 KGV 2½ "Prussian Blue" stamp shade?

Post by emason »

Does this help?
Image
Lots more from the SG colour key.
Image
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Re: Is this a GB 1935 KGV 2½ "Prussian Blue" stamp shade?

Post by Allanswood »

Just look at the thread I posted. They are chalk and cheese side by side with the prussian blue a very deep turquoise in the solid areas.

One of the wilding QEII's is also a prussian blue.
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Re: Is this a GB 1935 KGV 2½ "Prussian Blue" stamp shade?

Post by norvic »

emason wrote:Does this help?
Image
Lots more from the SG colour key.
I was told by a dealer in earlier GB than I that the colour key (with holes in as shown) was produced originally for Commonwealth stamps - and the Commonwealth or Part 1 catalogue uses these shades.

Many more shade names were used in the GB catalogue, especially in the early GB KGV stamps, and these are not in the colour key. Whether the Prussian Blue there is anything like the actual stamp colour I don't know, and I haven't done any comparison myself.

One clue to Prussian Blue would be an Edmonton postmark as that is where the 2 sheets were sold.
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Re: Is this a GB 1935 KGV 2½ "Prussian Blue" stamp shade?

Post by AMark »

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