GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by emason »

Global Administrator wrote:
25 Nov 2020 22:20
Image.

.Image

This one will be tough I suspect, as one can barely see the first letter - can't be anything but a J I'd guess?

On a small piece cut off an entire. Someone has written ''Nine'' on back, but I generally pay no attention to that stuff, but just in case they were right, I am asking here! Might get an extra beer out of this if that is correct. 8-)

Any guesses on this one? :D :D :D



Hello Glen,

Your 1d black 'J-I' looks more like a plate 9 than any other. Its a pity the MX is obscuring what might be an 'O' flaw, which would have confirmed it.
.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Thanks Bill, it had ''NINE'' pencilled on back as I posted, so that tallies nicely. Plate 9 is about double cat the cheaper plates, so handy. Someone in the past must have lined up corner letters to that plate it seems.

If it were NOT on piece I could simply shine a 5000 lumen small flashlight thru back, and that would show the ''O'' flaw most likely. What a shame it was not a RED Maltese Cross! Rather tempted to soak it off now. :)

The top of the ''I'' seem to have a bit of a scoop on top side - not sure if that assists?

Glen

This is the best I can do -

image0-001.jpg
.

image0-006.jpg
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by bowulf »

Hello again, here is a better image of the HE which in all probability is from plate 3.

Thanks for your work before, working from a poor, out-of-focus image!

I find it very hard to tell if it's pl. 2 or 3.

s-l1600-4.jpg
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by ViccyVFU »

bowulf wrote:
26 Nov 2020 21:29
I find it very hard to tell if it's pl. 2 or 3.
.

They are close, but with the Higher H, slanting back E, and stronger value engraving, I think the first call of plate 3 is correct.

HE_2_or_3_bowulf.jpg
Mystery plate versus plates 2 and 3

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by bowulf »

ViccyVFU wrote:
26 Nov 2020 22:46
bowulf wrote:
26 Nov 2020 21:29
I find it very hard to tell if it's pl. 2 or 3.
.

They are close, but with the Higher H, slanting back E, and stronger value engraving, I think the first call of plate 3 is correct.

Image
Mystery plate versus plates 2 and 3
I can see it and I agree. Thanks!
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Dani »

Would appreciate some help plating this one.

SLoJIQE.jpg

Very little experience in plating, but I am leaning towards plate 8,9, or 10.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by emason »

Hello Dani,

Your 1d black 'G-I' is from plate 7.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by ViccyVFU »

emason wrote:
30 Nov 2020 06:49
Hello Dani,

Your 1d black 'G-I' is from plate 7.
GI_op.jpg

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Dani »

Many thanks for the replies. Yes this would tie in with the thin paper. Is the black Maltese Cross uncommon on plate 7?

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Any thought on this one please?

Has a very weak P, and there seems to be re-entry along the base?


GB 1840 1d black PB 12-20.jpg
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by ViccyVFU »

PB is plate 2.

(Easy, with such distinguishing marks)

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Many thanks ... So are all letter P lightly printed, or is this one just an aberration do you know?

Glen
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by ViccyVFU »

Global Administrator wrote:
30 Nov 2020 22:17
.
Many thanks ... So are all letter P lightly printed, or is this one just an aberration do you know?

Glen
On PB plate 2, they all seem light, based on these 8 examples ...

PB_p02.jpg
Penny Black / Red - Plate 2 - Corner Letters PB

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Great graphics .... well done. 8-)
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Parisboy »

ViccyVFU wrote:
30 Nov 2020 06:52
emason wrote:
30 Nov 2020 06:49
Hello Dani,

Your 1d black 'G-I' is from plate 7.
Image
Vicci, are these graphics your own work or are they published like that somewhere? I have the Nissen plating book but these are wonderful and I'd buy something like that in a heartbeat.

Chris.

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by ViccyVFU »

Parisboy wrote:
01 Dec 2020 03:22
Vicci, are these graphics your own work or are they published like that somewhere?

Well, the images are mostly other peoples, but it was the lockdown project I've been doing on and off since end of March, explained here on 23rd (First day of UK first lockdown) ....

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=6377672#p6377672

During this latest lockdown, I have not added any new images, but on average I add about 500 ('ish) per week to the core data (although not all make the grade, on review).

12 plates of penny blacks, 7 plates of "red from black", and as many "states" as you can find...... That's over 5,000 images required (and to ensure they are not obfuscated by postmarks, you need around 3-5 of each, at a minimum 600dpi).

Cross checked against certified copies (or as I prefer to call it, Allan Olivers corrections on the Chartwell Nissen pages). Certainly lots to do, resizing, matching pairs etc ...... Then checked against plating book notes.

When I set out, I was hoping to have something in hard form by next Spring (2021 Harrogate Stamp Event, Centenary of Nissens work). Needless to say "I'm a bit behind".

But its nice to be able to check plating "on the fly" as auction lots appear on the screen.
(Even better with my tablet, in a solitary viewing, going through the unplated copies "live").

And all this only replicates "maybe the lowest level of expertise in plating"....

We are truly lucky here (on SB) to have the likes of Bill, Scott (et al), especially for "the tricky ones"!!
.

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Parisboy »

It's brilliant work Viccy. It would be a boon to collectors (though the two plate 11s I bought for a song maybe would not have been so easy to find if everybody knew what they had. :mrgreen: ).

Bravo for doing this, it's certainly what the community could do with, you'd sell thousands if it was published.

Chris.

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Cill Dara »

Global Administrator wrote:
30 Nov 2020 21:59
.
Any thought on this one please?

Has a very weak P, and there seems to be re-entry along the base?


Image

Hi Glen,

Have you or are you listing this for sale?

Cill Dara

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

I know, I know -- it is for your POXY BREXIT sideline collection? :D :D :D

SG #1b minimum, with any Red MX, “From £400”. SG cat is £50 higher than a usual for both the re-cut corners, so this is £450 minimum cat stamp technically. Clean and fresh. Pretty STUNNING eye-appeal, as you can see, for near a QUARTER Gibbons. Only $US175 as I type: $A250 (Stock 475YQ)

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Erinmania »

.
Sold to PB

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Rob1956 »

A friend sent this image to me to find out what plate it is, I have no idea.
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

.

Rob .. he might need to buy himself a new Canon Lide as a Xmas Present? :lol: :lol:

IF it is unused, a high rez scan is needed to verify that as well as the Plate - if OK, he can buy a room full of scanners :mrgreen: .


Any of our Gurus able to take a guess at this guy below please? :D

Glen


GB 1840 1d Black TA FU 12-20.jpg
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by emason »

Rob1956 wrote:
12 Dec 2020 12:15
A friend sent this image to me to find out what plate it is, I have no idea.
It looks like plate 1b to me.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by emason »

Global Administrator wrote:
13 Dec 2020 00:57
Any of our Gurus able to take a guess at this guy below please?
Glen,
Your 1d black 'T-A' also looks like plate 1b.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

.

Thanks, Bill. :)
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by goof »

Hi

Could someone please help plating the following two 1d blacks please FE and TE

Thanks in advance
Mick
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by ViccyVFU »



(Remember I'm only a novice at this), but ..... I see FE as plate 3, and TE as plate 6.

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by goof »

Thanks Viccy appreciated.

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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stamps

Post by joseaurrutia 77 »

Thanks for your opinión.
I have a black penny.
You give the opinión for this stamp.
Thanks.
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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stamps

Post by pertinax »

The 1d black is printed from plate 8.

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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stamps

Post by joseaurrutia 77 »

Sorry. the plate is 11.
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Post by pertinax »

No. It's plate 8.

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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stamps

Post by joseaurrutia 77 »

Ok.
Perfect. Can you explain to me a little more in detail why this penny is from plate 8.

Thanks.

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Re: An Idiot's Guide to GB QV 1d Red 'Stars Perforated' stamps

Post by pertinax »

joseaurrutia 77 wrote:
22 Dec 2020 02:17
Ok.
Perfect. Can you explain to me a little more in detail why this penny is from plate 8.

Thanks.
176737990956497.jpg


Sure.

The main thing used for plating is the positions of the letters within their squares. For instance, the L on your stamp is positioned to the upper left of its square (in plate 11 the L is positioned central to the right).

Per the image above (which for some reason keeps posting inverted!!):

1. Your stamp has the 'O-flaw', so it can only be from plates 7 to 10.

2. There is a fine guideline in the right star running vertically just inside the square.

3. There is a subtle dot (a guide dot for laying down the plate) almost on the corner of the L square.

All these match plate 8.


Scott
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by joseaurrutia 77 »

Very, Very Thanks.

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Waelshami »

Can you please help me plating this
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by emason »

Hello Waelshami,

I think your 1d black 'Q-A' is from plate 1a.
Best wishes,
Bill

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by pertinax »

emason wrote:
25 Dec 2020 22:36
Hello Waelshami,

I think your 1d black 'Q-A' is from plate 1a.
I think you made a typo, Bill - I'm sure you meant 1b!

:)


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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by emason »

pertinax wrote:
25 Dec 2020 22:41
I think you made a typo, Bill - I'm sure you meant 1b!

:)

Scott
Thanks Scott, I was torn between 1a and 1b, and wasn't entirely convinced by either.

Have a good one and stay safe.
Best wishes,
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Any guess on this guy folks? :lol:

Thanks in advance, Glen



GB 1840 1d black JG 1-21.jpg
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by W5LDY »

JG on Glen's post above looks like Plate 6 to me.

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by ViccyVFU »

W5LDY wrote:
07 Jan 2021 20:22
JG on Glen's post above looks like Plate 6 to me.
Me too, for JG as plate 6

JG_plate.jpg

and a reference shot ...


JG_p06_(3)_small.jpg
Penny Black, Check Letters JG, Plate 6

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

.

Many thanks folks --- great spotting. :)
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by Global Administrator »

.

Any 1d Black fan who wants to wear a 1d Black COVID mask to their next club meeting or Auction etc, might want to grab one of these. Lettered ''SB'' for stampboards, high grade 5 layer, top end masks. Using ViccyVFU's original concept. :lol:

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=93678


GB PB reprint black block of 48 blue masks (002).jpg
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please

Post by Felloyd »

Hello is anyone able to help me identify if this penny black is real and not a rerelease and if its real what plate it is please, i have no idea what im looking for would be much help
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please

Post by pertinax »

Felloyd wrote:
13 Jan 2021 20:16
Hello is anyone able to help me identify if this penny black is real and not a rerelease and if its real what plate it is please, i have no idea what im looking for would be much help
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UK QV 1d black PH plating?

Post by dbuk1 »


Hi, can someone tell me the plate and why please? Many thanks

1d black PH
1d black PH
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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by ViccyVFU »

Your PH is plate 5.

Why?
Well the H is characteristic, and if you ignore all plates where the H is below the P, you are left with just these ....

PH_p05_poor.jpg
Penny Black PH Corners, High H


Here's the Nissen reference one ...


PH_05.jpg

and finally, here is your one (shrunk a bit :D ), as listed and sold "in mid 2020"...

PH_p05 (2).jpg

(and yes, it was listed as plate 5 six months ago .... its not changed)!!

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Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by dbuk1 »

Thanks for such a detailed response. Was double checking my purchases from eBay, had no reason to doubt that purchase to be fair.

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pertinax
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Author - 'Best Thread Of All Time' as voted by our members
Posts: 2022
Joined: 01 Apr 2007 14:37
Location: Dowgate Hill, City of London, UK

Re: GB 1840 "Penny Black" - Plate Number help needed please!

Post by pertinax »

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Can only be plate 5 - the H is double punched. :idea:


Scott
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