Discussion on Zeppelin & Hindenburg airships, global stamps + covers!

General things you want to know. Stamps you can't identify. Catalogue values you need to establish. Advice on ANYTHING stamp related you want. SOMEONE might be able to help. You can post photos of the stamps right here to assist . NOTE: - We have a nearby Forum for basic questions from *NEW* collectors.

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Discussion on Zeppelin & Hindenburg airships, global stamps + covers!

Post by fletches1 »

A small selection of Airship covers are below.

Anything you could want to know about Airships can be found on Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeppelin
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Post by fletches1 »

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Post by fletches1 »

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Last edited by fletches1 on 19 Dec 2008 20:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by fletches1 »

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Last edited by fletches1 on 19 Dec 2008 20:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by fletches1 »

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Last edited by fletches1 on 19 Dec 2008 20:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by fletches1 »

Image
Last edited by fletches1 on 19 Dec 2008 20:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by GlenStephens »

Some great items there Steve. :)
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Post by crosscrescent »

Enjoyed looking at them.
Thanks for sharing these scans.

Cheers
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Post by maalgard »

these were sent from the other side of the atlantic ocean :

Image

Image
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Re: Zeppelin & Hindenburg Covers

Post by aerophilately08 »

I have a few Zeppelins:

Cover flown on the "Graf Zeppelin" on the American flight 16.5.1929:

Image

Graf Zeppelin flight to Suderland

Image

Airship Hindenburg - first flight Frankfurt to Lakehurst:

Image


Return flight from New York:
Image
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How much mail exists from the 1937 Hindenburg Zeppelin Crash?

Post by putnum »

I read in an old issue of American Philately that the Hindenburg had 17,000 pieces of mail on board when it crashed and only 389 pieces were recovered.

I was wondering if anybody on this board own any from it, and if so could you post your scans?
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Re: Hindenburg Crash

Post by Brummie »

I wish Putnam! But here are a couple that Glen posted in another thread:

Image


Very little mail was salvaged of the 17,609 pieces of mail on board, only 358 pieces were salvaged in a burned condition. 176 of the surviving pieces were uncancelled, awaiting to be cancelled on the return voyage to Europe. The 147 covers addressed to persons in the U.S.A. were forwarded to the Foreign Airmail Division in New York who sent the items to the addressees' Postmaster with a request to secure a registered receipt.

Most of the salvaged mail originated from Germany, but is also recorded from Austria, Danzig, the Netherlands, Saar and Switzerland.

Zeppelin mail has always been a popular topic for air-mail collectors, and in particular the Hindenburg crash covers are much sought-after. The crash of this great airship ended the era of Zeppelin flights, but created the most elusive covers salvaged from that fiery disaster at Lakehurst, New Jersey that May evening.
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Re: Hindenburg Crash

Post by Global Admin »

We have a crash mail expert on our boards -

http://stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=6203

Glen
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Re: Hindenburg Crash

Post by aerophil »

If you would like to see a lot of Hindenburg crash covers, see:

http://www.slettebo.no/scout/hindenburg.htm

There are a lot of fakes around, so be careful and if you are considering purchasing one, have it checked by the experts-Dieter Leder at: dieterleder[at]-online.de, Cheryl Ganz at: cherylganz[at]yahoo.com, or Ken Sanford at: kaerophil[at]gmail.com

Regards,

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Re: Hindenburg Crash

Post by putnum »

Thanks guys. I wasn't going to buy one because I know they can go for several hundreds of dollars. I just wanted to see if anybody on this forum actually owned any pieces. :)
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Re: Hindenburg Crash

Post by Global Admin »

I feel sure Ken above does. :)
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Re: Hindenburg Crash

Post by aerophil »

Try several thousands. They have gone for as high as US$20,000 and now they average $8,000 to $10,000.

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Re: Hindenburg Crash

Post by putnum »

aerophil wrote:Try several thousands. They have gone for as high as US$20,000 and now they average $8,000 to $10,000.

Ken

Wow. I don't doubt that. I am surprised they even found any.
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Show your Zeppelin related stamps and covers here

Post by geopc »

Found in the family collection:

Image

Appears to have sent by zeppelin from Germany to Brazil in 1936.
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Re: Show your Zeppelin related stamps here.

Post by europhil »

Postage is correct and markings appear to be correct. It was posted
"on board" on the second day of the flight.
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Re: Show your Zeppelin related sta

Post by geopc »

How can you tell it was posted during the flight?
geopc wrote:Found in the family collection:

Image

Appears to have sent by zeppelin from Germany to Brazil in 1936.
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Re: Show your Zeppelin related stamps here.

Post by europhil »

The flight departed March 31. The black cancel was only used for
"on board" postings. Otherwise, it would have a regular German cancel.
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Re: Show your Zeppelin related stamps here.

Post by jugoslavija_post »

It's odd that the blue zeppelin stamp is badly foxed, but the eagle one next to it is very fresh. :shock:
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Re: Show your Zeppelin related stamps here.

Post by Wolfgang »

jugoslavija_post wrote:It's odd that the blue zeppelin stamp is badly foxed, but the eagle one next to it is very fresh. :shock:
These stamps had a "sulphuric" gum. Mint stamps are offered without gum, as it damages the paper.
So nearly all covers with these stamps are foxed!
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Re: Show your Zeppelin related stamps and covers here

Post by gavin-h »

Image

Postcard to Scotts in New York.

Sender was Stanley Gibbons in London.

Sorry about the small scan - I "borrowed" the scan from the seller when I bought the item
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Help to confirm this is a genuine Zeppelin cover, please

Post by phrag99 »

Looking through the Nicargua covers that I have acquired over the years, I spotted this one in the middle of a small lot of covers bearing stamps with varieties that I bought at auction. The varieties are the not very uncommon "15c on 25c, double overprint, 1 in each colour", SG634b, and "20c on 25c, inverted o/p" SG635b - middle stamps, top row. The cover is addressed to a well known German stamp dealer, Philipp Kosack.

Image

Image

I only spotted the "via GRAF ZEPPELIN" today!

On the reverse are a MIAMI cancel for MAY 18 1930, NEW YORK for 19/5/30 and BERLIN for 29/5/30.

Can anyone confirm that these dates are compatible with a recognized Zeppelin flight? I can find refences to a flight to Brazil around this time, but not to the USA, but it might be possible the Zep went via Lakehurst.

Thanks for any help.
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Re: Help to confirm this is a genuine Zeppelin cover, please

Post by europhil »

The only 1930 flight involving Lakehurst was the 1st South
America flight from 5/18 to 6/6. The route was Friedrichshafen-
Seville-Recife-Rio de Janiero-Recife-Lakehurst-Seville-
Friedrichshafen. The LZ 127 arrived Lakehurst on 5/31 and
departed on 6/3. Looks like your cover was transported by
other means and never saw Lakehurst.
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Re: Help to confirm this is a genuine Zeppelin cover, please

Post by Cover »

You can look at http://www.felzmann.de auctions 112 and 114 in the archive. Special Zeppelin auctions.
More famous German stampdealer involved, Hermann E.Sieger from Lorch Wuerttemberg.
Later a well known Zeppelin specialist, no wonder when maybe 10% of those Zeppelin and DO-X covers were sent at his adress or that from Stoltz and Cie in Brasil :lol:
As stated before, there where fixed stopping points. If a cover was not on time, it had to be transported the usual way. On board the used some special Zeppelin-cancels.
The Do-X water-airplane was considered as a official German postoffice. Maybe that was also the case with the Zeppelin.
P.s. on the Felzmann site you have fill in under "suche" the number 112 or 114. Then it shows the collection of many old auction cataloques and the final results :wink:
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Brazil Zeppelin Covers - Condor Information please

Post by Lundy »

Hi all,

I picked up a remaindered collection in a Strand Album today as it had some nice bits in it and noticed there were 5 or 6 covers in the back including these two Zeppelin covers.

I don't expect them to be very valuable, but as they are not of particular interest to me I though they might help me recoup the cost of the stamps.

Any information appreciated, as whilst they are not my collecting area, I love to learn more about other areas and have never had a zeppelin cover before.

Thanks all

Lundy :D

Image

Image
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Re: Brazil Zeppelin Covers - Condor Information please

Post by doug2222usa »

The "Sieger" Catalog in German is one of the major data sources for Zeppelin flights. Your "Condor" covers would be avidly collected too, even without actual Zeppelin stamps (of Brazil, Scott #C26-30, 1931-32).

Read in Wikipedia:
Syndicato Condor (and)
Servi'os Aéreos Cruzeiro do Sul
for clarifying background.
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Re: Brazil Zeppelin Covers - Condor Information please

Post by gavin-h »

Depending on the flight, the postal markings, etc, etc, these sort of covers start from around £15.

My guess is that if you listed them in the For Sale Forum at £30 or $50Aus for the pair, someone would pick them up fairly quickly :idea:
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Re: Brazil Zeppelin Covers - Condor Information please

Post by Lundy »

Thanks Doug,

Interesting stuff, I can understand why people could get into collecting in this area.

Gavin, thanks, I think I will take your advice and list them up here.

Lundy :D
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Re: Brazil Zeppelin Covers - Condor Information please

Post by grantsstamps »

I would love to buy them.Let me know if you list them here, thanks.
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Re: Brazil Zeppelin Covers - Condor Information please

Post by gavin-h »

Well, that was quick... :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

...to close the loop, these sold within 20 minutes on this thread:

http://stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=28233
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Re: Brazil Zeppelin Covers - Condor Information please

Post by Lundy »

Thanks again Gavin,

I also have 1 Danzig postmark to send you, I have been hoping to find more but they are tough to find!

Lundy :D
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Help with meter imprint on flown Zeppelin card

Post by doug2222usa »

This flown postcard bears a red cancel like Sieger #406x. The identifying "letter" ("a" through "g") got obliterated when someone removed the addressee's name (above Phila. & Reading).

I can't figure out the meter imprint, dated April 25, 1936. Was the 15 pfennig meter imprint used to send the card from Hamburg to Friedrichshafen? Or was it part of the postage for the flight? I don't recall the German rate for a postcard.

Not long ago, someone on SB wrote very knowingly about European meters. Comments welcomed; estimate of retail value for this grubby card likewise invited.

Another minor detail, how did an incomplete New York machine cancel end up as a receiving mark? Was New York City an intermediate stop before proceeding to Lakehurst?

Is this a rare advertising card usage?

Image

Image
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Re: Help with meter imprint on flown Zeppelin card

Post by europhil »

15 Pf. was the rate for a foreign post card. 50 Pf. was the
surcharge for a post card on 1936 zeppelin flights to the
Americas.

The New York cancel was probably added in transit from
Lakehurst to PA.
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Re: Help with meter imprint on flown Zeppelin card

Post by doug2222usa »

Thanks, Jay.

How unusual is it to have the meter+stamp combination?

And since the NY appears to be a machine cancel, how did they arrange to strike only the cds portion?
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Re: Help with meter imprint on flown Zeppelin card

Post by memphre »

Hi Doug

I had never seen any card like this one. However, I find them mentioned in Sieger «Zeppelin Post Katalog».

Apparently, there were 13000 of them all franked in the same way with 50 pf. stamp and 15 pf. meter.

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Re: Help with meter imprint on flown Zeppelin card

Post by doug2222usa »

Thanks, memphre, that answers the question nicely. My ancient copy of Sieger does not contain that explanation.
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Re: Help with meter imprint on flown Zeppelin card

Post by Philanthropist »

Is the Zeppelin post card on the market yet?
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Re: Zeppelin & Hindenburg Covers

Post by goof »

These three covers I took receipt of today


1. Hindenburg First transatlantic flight cover Frankfurt-Lakehurst with New York receiving stamp 9th May 1936

Image


Image


2. Special cachet with postmark commemorating the Hindenburg disaster dated 6th May 1937 7.30pm the date and time of the disaster (in sealed plastic as yet unopened!)


Image


Image



3. Graf Zeppelin flight 26th April 1930 philatelic cover mail apparently dropped over Paris addressed Arthur Krebs (I assume this is the Arthur Krebs who made the first flight in an airship) a nicely balanced cover with the 1Mk airmail black/rose

Image


Image



If anybody could give me an idea on retail value (there seems to be a wide range to say the least) I would be most grateful.

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Re: Zeppelin & Hindenburg Covers

Post by librarianc »

Here's one that came in an estate lot a few months ago:

Image
Image

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Germany 4RM 1931 Polar Fahrt Zeppelin stamp - genuine used?

Post by Caddyman »

.
Germany 4RM 1931 Polar Fahrt Zeppelin stamp - is this one genuine used?

Could someone with more expertise than me please comment on this stamp?

Does the overprint look genuine?

I have never actually seen one before.

Image

Thanks

Ron
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Re: Germany 1931 Polar Fahrt - is this genuine?

Post by DarrenK »

Firstly Ron, does the stamp have a watermark?

There are loads of good quality reprints and I have quite a few but I'm at work. I also have a Michel on this issue with all the flight dates etc so I can check that tonight and let you know if the date is correct for any of the flights. Luckily it is in English!

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Re: Germany 1931 4Rm Polar Fahrt stamp - is this genuine?

Post by GlenStephens »

Ron,

If that was also in the large $150 junk carton I mailed you this week, it will be 105% genuine. That box had not been touched for 70 years is my hunch, as I guessed then. :mrgreen:

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=59596

That old guy was very strong on German area it looked like, and I only spent 5 mins on the whole box, and as I said, ANYTHING could be in there! He lazily had it sorted in a zillion sealed envelopes, and dealers simply do not have time to bother sorting such material.

There are a lot of (fairly modern) mint Zeppelin reprints about on ebay etc as Darren says, but wrong paper, and the corner perfs are all wrong too, and will not fool anyone experienced.

This will be 105% genuine in my view, if from that source. SG 471 - £1,000, or $2000 right now.

Handy find in a large $150 carton of "Junk"!

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Re: Germany 4RM 1931 Polar Fahrt stamp - is this genuine use

Post by Caddyman »

Hi Darren,

It's the mesh watermark.

Glen,

Yes, it was in that carton. It was set aside in it's own little glassine inside one of the Germany envelopes. Obviously whoever put it away thought it was genuine.

For everyone else - when Glen says he didn't look carefully at a junk box lot he is selling, you can believe him. :D

Ron
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Re: Germany 4RM 1931 Polar Fahrt stamp - is this genuine use

Post by GlenStephens »

Nice find -- keep looking and keep us undated - I feel sure other nugget's will be buried in there. :mrgreen:

That carton was very strong on Latin America and USA too, and who know WHAT is in those, and very time consuming material to check.

I only spent a few minutes on it opening up a few envelopes to take some pix, but as you could see, the vast bulk of them were never opened by me - or anyone else for 70 years or so! -

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=59596

I only allow $100 or so for such cartons when buying, if they are untidily stored as that was, as to take a good look takes hours of time I never have these days sadly.

"Buy it - sell it same day - and leave something in it for the next buyer" always works well for me!

If these guys had them stored in 20 albums or stockbooks, it would cost them a few $100 for the books, but I'd clearly have paid a ton more that that for the stamps, as you can then SEE any better stamps buried inside.

Glen
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Re: Germany 4RM 1931 Polar Fahrt stamp - is this genuine use

Post by MargoZ »

Ron - you'll be getting me sacked as chief photographer.

Opened only a couple of envelopes to photograph, but certainly didn't do that Germany one! :roll:
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DarrenK
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Re: Germany 4RM 1931 Polar Fahrt stamp - is this genuine use

Post by DarrenK »

Here are a couple of examples I have scanned.

This is a Polar Flight 2RM used on 16th August 1932. This may have been on a Zeppelin flight to Switzerland that matches this date.
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This is a reprint for comparison.
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This is a mint Chicago Fair stamp.
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This is a mini sheet of reprints created in 1983.
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Ron, I would agree with Glen that yours does look genuine.
Always interested in trading German material especially post war period.
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