Belgian imperforated & numbered stamps - VIP or Royalty proofs etc?

General things you want to know. Stamps you can't identify. Catalogue values you need to establish. Advice on ANYTHING stamp related you want. SOMEONE might be able to help. You can post photos of the stamps right here to assist . NOTE: - We have a nearby Forum for basic questions from *NEW* collectors.

Moderator: Volunteer Moderator Team

Post Reply
User avatar
Ghost07
BLUE Shooting Star Posting GURU!!
BLUE Shooting Star Posting GURU!!
Posts: 875
Joined: 18 May 2012 03:00
Location: Grangemouth. Scotland

Belgian imperforated & numbered stamps - VIP or Royalty proofs etc?

Post by Ghost07 »

I recently came across this Belgian King Leopold III stamp which matches the 1936 - 1951 definitive issue, except that instead of being perforated 14 x 13 1/2, it's imperforated.

Image

A quick search of the internet threw up this matching pair which are described by the Ebay seller as "Michel: 528, 1940, Royalty, III. King Leopold imperforated pair"


Image


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Belgium-stamp-King-Leopold-imperforated-pair-WS88400-/150641719877

My copy of Stanley Gibbons Benelux issues does not indicated the 1936 - 1951 series or the 2.5fr stamp was imperforated nor can I find a SG number for this stamp?

I get the feeling I am going to be asking a very obvious question here but can any Stampboards member provide me with the SG number of this stamp?

Thanks again for all your help folks,

Best wishes

Mike

User avatar
undctiatc
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Black Ninja Star! Board Posting Addict.
Posts: 50
Joined: 24 Jul 2013 11:55
Location: Cordova,TN, USA

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by undctiatc »

Take a look at this http://auction.catawiki.com/kavels/480471-belgium-1931-1940- ... iii-stamps it lists a catalog that I am not familiar with but it has your stamp and a few like it. Might be a step in the right direction. Might have to translate the page into your language. If it doesn't work here is the text:

These stamps are the official unserrated stamps issued by Bpost.
OBP 317, 319, 320, 321, 322, 323, 324 and 429 Ong/ND. Edition 150 ex.
OBP 530 Poortman Edition 200 ex.

hope I helped :)

I have the 2009 copy of Scott and I found the perf stamp of this variety but it doesn't list any of this design in an imperf.

User avatar
Ghost07
BLUE Shooting Star Posting GURU!!
BLUE Shooting Star Posting GURU!!
Posts: 875
Joined: 18 May 2012 03:00
Location: Grangemouth. Scotland

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by Ghost07 »

Hi Unsctiatc,

Thank you so much for that. At least I now know that other stamps in the series were imperforated. I wonder why I can't find them in the Stanley Gibbons catalogue though? I bet it's a simple obvious answer :D

Thanks again and best wishes

Mike

User avatar
vikingeck
PLATINUM Shooting Star *10,000* Posts!
PLATINUM Shooting Star  *10,000* Posts!
Posts: 14762
Joined: 15 Feb 2009 23:53
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by vikingeck »

Mike, I suspect that these were not a regular postal issue , they may have been released in connection with an exhibition or for a presentation folder on some occasion. I can't give a definitive answer. (maybe someone like Joel who is Belgian can give the reason)

However Gibbons will not list proofs, reprints, official issues or otherwise that were not on sale for postal purposes.
If Gibbons doesn't list them, then it stands to reason they wont have an SG Number !

Alex
whatever it is -------it's better than a poke in eye with a wet umbrella !

User avatar
doug2222usa
PLATINUM Shooting Star *10,000* Posts!
PLATINUM Shooting Star  *10,000* Posts!
Posts: 10823
Joined: 25 Jan 2007 03:15
Location: Columbus, Ohio. USA

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by doug2222usa »

The set of 3 is listed in Prinet, 1973 (!) edition, at 21 times the mint price of the regular 1.50, 2.00, and 4.00 stamps, i.e., 2,000 Belgian Francs versus 95 Belgian Francs; the regulars are listed as Prinet #909-911.

You might go into Delcampe and search for Prinet #909-911 or #909v-911v to get a retail, start-bid, or BIN quotation. That's the most likely place to find them.

Prinet is the first foreign-language catalog I ever bought, 42 years ago.

User avatar
Ghost07
BLUE Shooting Star Posting GURU!!
BLUE Shooting Star Posting GURU!!
Posts: 875
Joined: 18 May 2012 03:00
Location: Grangemouth. Scotland

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by Ghost07 »

Thanks Alex and Doug for your advice, perhaps one of the other members will be able to advise what these stamps were actually issued for?

Best wishes

Mike

User avatar
memphre
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
RED Shooting Star Posting LEGEND!
Posts: 1387
Joined: 09 Jan 2011 12:50
Location: Canada

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by memphre »

Hi Mike

Belgian stamps were routinely issued imperf in very small numbers, much as were the habit in France. Also as in France, the imperf were distributed to various VIPs; they usually did not have postal validity.

Only the Belgian COB / OPC catalogue lists and values them systematically. Yours is number 530 Ong-N.D. and is valued at 50€ in ** condition in the 2010 Edition.

Despite very small quantities issued, these stamps are almost all valued quite modestly. A collecting area to be discovered?

Memphre
I'm also Memphre on Delcampe. Always about 15,000 items in my Delcampe store: stamps, postcards and postal history. See it here: http://www.delcampe.net/boutiques/memphre

User avatar
Ghost07
BLUE Shooting Star Posting GURU!!
BLUE Shooting Star Posting GURU!!
Posts: 875
Joined: 18 May 2012 03:00
Location: Grangemouth. Scotland

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by Ghost07 »

Hi Memphre,

Thank you so much for taking the time to share that information with me, very detailed and useful thanks.

Do you know if the stamps are issued with or without gum as mine is mint with no gum?

Best wishes

Mike

User avatar
Global Administrator
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 57964
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone
Contact:

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by Global Administrator »

memphre wrote:
Despite very small quantities issued, these stamps are almost all valued quite modestly. A collecting area to be discovered?

Memphre
Agree. A ripe field to acquire when offered. :mrgreen:

User avatar
joelk
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 12973
Joined: 26 Apr 2010 04:13
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by joelk »

Memphre is right these stamps are routinely issued in small numbers, and are given to VIP, including members of the Royal Family. They are normally numbered at the back, and example #1 is reserved for the King. Also, for the most prominent VIPs, they are given in blocks of 4, which is even rarer.

The information I'm giving here pertains to Belgian stamps, but as Memphre mentions, both France and Belgium have a similar issuing policy for imperforates (with the obvious difference that there is no Royal Family in France).

Currently, 1000 examples of each new stamp are produced as imperforate. This wasn't always the case. Before 1971, smaller quantities were produced.

In the late 60's the quantities produced varied from 370 to 480.

Between 1958 and 1965, the quantities varied between 210 and 320, but with much smaller runs for souvenir sheets (100 to 120), and the 1963 booklet (only 70 were produced).

Between 1934 and 1958, the quantities issued were in the 200 to 300 range, and before that, between 50 and 150.

To echo Glen and Memphre, these are great to collect, and while they are generally inexpensive, it is harder to find those before 1958 (and they are of course more expensive).

It's also harder to find the blocks of 4 (much rarer), and examples with plate numbers (very rare of course, as there is only one per sheet, so even with a production run of 1000, there are only 33 available. Much less for smaller production runs).

Some themes are also very popular and hard to procure: the Olympic Games of 1920, with only 100 produced, routinely bring in high prices at auction (virtually impossible to get a set below 500 Euros)..and try getting the unique plate number from this set, since there is only one sheet of 100 produced...(Oh wait, for two of the three stamps, you can't, because they are in my collection... :shock: :lol: , ok being a bit cheeky there, and to be fair there are rumors that two other sheets were produced. Harder to verify because they were produced in the US, so less reliable information in Belgium on that...).

For the Tin Hat set of 1919, only 50 sets were produced, so plate numbers are exceptional: only two sets exist, on of which was in the Karpov collection and was sold by Feldman a couple of years ago.

Cheers,
Joel.

User avatar
Ghost07
BLUE Shooting Star Posting GURU!!
BLUE Shooting Star Posting GURU!!
Posts: 875
Joined: 18 May 2012 03:00
Location: Grangemouth. Scotland

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by Ghost07 »

Hi Joel,

Thank you so much for what can only be described as a stunning and very informative reply. I have always loved a imperforate stamp and perhaps by accident I have found a new collecting area.

Thank you once again for taking the time to reply, it was very much appreciated,

Best wishes

Mike

User avatar
doug2222usa
PLATINUM Shooting Star *10,000* Posts!
PLATINUM Shooting Star  *10,000* Posts!
Posts: 10823
Joined: 25 Jan 2007 03:15
Location: Columbus, Ohio. USA

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by doug2222usa »

Before you plunge in, you might write down some prices realized on Delcampe (Auctions) which (being located in Belgium) probably has many more of these than eBay does.

Also, the Delcampe Manager, Sebastien, is a member of SB and may be happy to comment on these items' collectibility and availability. Probably best not to become the Belgian-imperf "go-to" guy...lest a long sticky convoy roll into your town.

My dealer-friend in Zurich says he can scarcely sell French imperfs, there's too many floating around, and everybody knows it.

User avatar
Cosmophilatelist
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
Posts: 34
Joined: 25 Jun 2014 13:35
Location: Westfield, NJ, USA
Contact:

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by Cosmophilatelist »

Hello everybody,

I fully agree with Memphre, Glen and Joel.

Belgian imperforate stamps are much more rare and difficult to find than the imperforate stamps of France.

The imperforate stamps of France were available to collectors and stamp dealers by subscription, while the imperforate stamps of Belgium are exclusively distributed to high government officials and members of the royal family.

I collect this type of stamps, but I confess I do not know many stamps dealers who have good stock of that material.

Currently I buy from Henry Gitner, a Big American stamp dealer who has an impressive price list of this kind of material.

I have searched others specialists stamp dealers in this type of material, but so far without success.

Does anyone know any Belgian or European stamp dealer who has a good stock of Belgian imperforate stamps?

Best regards,

André

User avatar
joelk
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
WINNER! Stampboards Poster Of The Month
Posts: 12973
Joined: 26 Apr 2010 04:13
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by joelk »

Mike, thank you for the kind words!

Doug, you are right for a lot of the very modern imperfs, but special themes, blocks of 4 and plate numbers are rare and sought after, while the Belgian stamps before 1960 are rare and not that easy to get.

André, many thanks for your informative post. I actually did not know this about the French stamps, and that would explain why I can't find documentation about quantities issued.

On sources for the Belgian stamps, you can definitely go on Delcampe and find some, but most of the interesting ones are not cheap (or plentiful for that matter), and the do come up at auction in Belgium on a regular basis, but that's mostly for complete, fairly recent year sets (after 1965 generally), where they command only roughly 15% of catalog (but you also cannot choose as a result).

As previously mentioned, older examples, plate numbers and blocks are considerably rarer and more expensive relative to catalog values.

Cheers,
Joel.

User avatar
Cosmophilatelist
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
Posts: 34
Joined: 25 Jun 2014 13:35
Location: Westfield, NJ, USA
Contact:

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by Cosmophilatelist »

Hi!

Here more information about the imperforate stamps of Belgium, taken from the latest catalog of the auction house Christoph Gärtner - Philatelic Sale - 31:

"Belgium Imperfs are issued in quantities of 1000 or less without gum & numbered on the reverse so each Imperf is unique!

From 1983 to 2009 most numbers are very low like 8 or 11 and these are said to come from the Secretary to the King or a very high Member of Parliament.

Belgium Imperfs are much scarcer than France as they are not regularly distributed to stamp dealers or collectors, so not many come to the market."


Joel, as you said earlier, the lots of imperforate stamps of Belgium of this auction are listed at an initial price of 15% of the catalog.

You could indicate some stamp auction house in Belgium which usually list this kind of lot?

Best wishes,

André

User avatar
philetalismisfun
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
Posts: 47
Joined: 14 Aug 2014 05:54
Location: Tullahoma, TN, USA

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by philetalismisfun »

Re: Belgium stamps not found in Scott.

Image

This stamp matches the Scott Catalogue Belgium picture number A24 but I can't find the 25c blue, only a 35c (SC#57). Hmmm. Hope someone can tell me where to search. I looked for the aforementioned "Prinet" catalog in an Amazon, Google and local libraries search, to no avail. I also don't have access to Stanley Gibbons. That must be remedied. :-)

User avatar
europhil
Sadly departed RIP. Greatly missed here
Sadly departed RIP.  Greatly missed here
Posts: 2549
Joined: 21 May 2010 15:13
Location: Hendersonville, NC, USA
Contact:

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by europhil »

Scott 68.

User avatar
doug2222usa
PLATINUM Shooting Star *10,000* Posts!
PLATINUM Shooting Star  *10,000* Posts!
Posts: 10823
Joined: 25 Jan 2007 03:15
Location: Columbus, Ohio. USA

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by doug2222usa »

Maybe Prinet has been subsumed by a larger publisher, like Ceres was (?) in France. My old catalogs, I never let go of them, some contain unique information.

User avatar
europhil
Sadly departed RIP. Greatly missed here
Sadly departed RIP.  Greatly missed here
Posts: 2549
Joined: 21 May 2010 15:13
Location: Hendersonville, NC, USA
Contact:

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by europhil »

Prinet has been dead for decades. COB (French or Flemish version)
is far more comprehensive than Prinet ever was.

User avatar
philetalismisfun
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
Posts: 47
Joined: 14 Aug 2014 05:54
Location: Tullahoma, TN, USA

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by philetalismisfun »

Yay!! I can always depend on Stampboards members!! Special thanks for the info on COB.

Gibbons Benelux catalogue Part 4, now at Issue 5 2003 is an acceptable alternative but lacks many of the nuances found in COB. www.philately.post.be.

I'm not fluent in French or Flemish. Is the Benelux really an acceptable alternative, in your opinion?

User avatar
philetalismisfun
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
AQUA Star Stampboards Enthusiast
Posts: 47
Joined: 14 Aug 2014 05:54
Location: Tullahoma, TN, USA

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by philetalismisfun »

Aha!! And, Duh!! on SC#68. Thank you.

User avatar
Global Administrator
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 57964
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone
Contact:

Re: Belgian imperforated stamp - help with SG number

Post by Global Administrator »

Cosmophilatelist wrote:
04 Jun 2015 06:54
Hi!

Here more information about the imperforate stamps of Belgium, taken from the latest catalog of the auction house Christoph Gärtner - Philatelic Sale - 31:

"Belgium Imperfs are issued in quantities of 1000 or less without gum & numbered on the reverse so each Imperf is unique!

From 1983 to 2009 most numbers are very low like 8 or 11 and these are said to come from the Secretary to the King or a very high Member of Parliament.

Belgium Imperfs are much scarcer than France as they are not regularly distributed to stamp dealers or collectors, so not many come to the market."


Great info on this thread. :mrgreen:

Just bought an interesting lot of 56 different of these Belgium imperf stamp from 1970s to 1990s, each with a unique number at the back and the quantity of each in the world is less than 1000. (Stock 379QJ - just a few $'s apiece) Of these numbered imperf proofs, we have almost no images above, so have added some here - :lol:

IMG_E4117.JPG
.
IMG_E4119.JPG
.
Belgium IMPERFORATED and individually numbered proof stamps, made for VIPs and Royalty etc.
Belgium IMPERFORATED and individually numbered proof stamps, made for VIPs and Royalty etc.
.
IMG_E4124.JPG
.
.
Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

Post Reply

Return to “You ask the questions - SOMEONE will have the answers!”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], W5LDY and 2 guests