What is the world's most valuable 'Bird' design stamp?

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What is the world's most valuable 'Bird' design stamp?

Post by Michael Beharry »

I can't even fathom a guess, and as birds are a favourite theme I'm wondering what's at the top of the pack?

I'd also be interested in knowing what ranks as most valuable from individual countries.
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

Post by nigelc »

Michael Beharry wrote:I can't even fathom a guess and as birds are a favourite theme I'm wondering what's at the top of the pack?
Hi Michael,

I'd guess this would be the Basel town post stamp from Switzerland issued in 1845.

I think this was also the first bird stamp.
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

Post by stampchris »

Isn't the WA 4d inverted frame/swan stamp in Arthur Woo's bird display?
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

Post by ewen s »

I'd agree with Chris :)
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

Post by KevinHedley »

Michael Beharry wrote:I can't even fathom a guess and as birds are a favourite theme I'm wondering what's at the top of the pack?

I'd also be interested in knowing what ranks as most valuable from individual countries.
How long is a piece of string?

And, more importantly, what is a 'bird' stamp? My collection does not include 'white doves' and 'heraldic eagles' but that is my choice and I don't expect everyone to agree with me.

On that basis I would not include the Basel stamp.

Then the question arises of whether you seek to include all bird stamps including such items as the inverted frame mentioned above. I would include them but that raises the question of what value you place on a stamp which has been in a private collection for many, many years.

I will be interested to see what suggestions are made.

I guess for Australia it is going to be a variety of the 6d Kookaburra from 1914. For New Guinea I think it would be this 1921-1931 £1 grey Raggianna Bird of Paradise but in mint condition.

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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

Post by Global Administrator »

stampchris wrote:
Isn't the WA 4d inverted frame/swan stamp in Arthur Woo's bird display?
Actually Dr Woo's Exhibit when I last saw it in Melbourne 2013, had 6 or 7 WA Inverted Swan stamps. :)

He clearly likes them. :mrgreen:

Australasia holds the Number #1 and Number #2 spots for the World's Priciest Bird Stamp items.

That is $A326,000 that Phoenix Auctions got for the 1928 Kookaburra imperforate mini-sheet ex Stuart Hardy in November 2012.
Image

For a SINGLE stamp, this one takes the cake -
Image
I reported on this sale in detail last year -

https://www.glenstephens.com/snjuly15.html


World Record Price for Australasia

A good used, 3 margin Western Australia 1854 4d Blue Swan "Inverted Frame" stamp has just sold for around $A250,000.

The stamp sold for £122,400 at the Spink Lord Vestey sale of May 19 - around $A250,000. More than DOUBLE their top estimate of £50,000-£60,000.

My checking reveals it is a world record price for ANY single stamp from Australasia, from 1850, to the present day. Pretty amazing, and is WAY over full Gibbons catalogue of £90,000 for SG 3h.

The stamp I understand was secured via phone bid by retired Hong Kong physician, Dr Arthur Woo, adding this example to his absolute fistful of these stamps. He now owns near all the few examples of this classic “Bird” rarity not in Institutions and Museums etc.

Woo’s tally, among many other examples now, includes the “forged” example sold in 1980s by Christies in the “Isleham” collection for £31,000. Some opinion now seems to lean to it NOT being forged. And the damaged strip of 3 x 4d used stamps, showing part of an inverted frame on one!

Image


The “Proving” Discovery.

The damaged strip of 4 is weirdly overlooked by many in the “count” - however it was the “PROVING” find that showed clearly it was the FRAME inverted, and not the centre inverted, as was widely believed for decades.

Bought £850, sold for £122,400.

In December 1942 this single 4d Swan was bought by the original Lord Vestey for the princely sum of £850 by Private Treaty from Robson Lowe. Some 73 years later, it achieved a World Record price of £122,400 - near enough to $A250,000 exact when bank rate conversion charges were added.

I was having a drink with Richard Juzwin at Arthur Gray's funeral last week, and he'd just got back from London from the auction. He bought the 1854 4d Swan imperforate full sheet of 60 he told me - no invert on that one sadly!

The WA prices were incredibly strong Richard told me, even for "bread and butter" basic WA stamp single items, and he said the SG valuations on WA in next SG will increase widely as a result of this sale.
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

Post by ottawasteve »

The American 1869 30c Eagle, Shield and Flags invert in mint condition is valued, I believe, in the $200,000+++ range.

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Siegel has sold a couple for $260-290,000 US, and one amazing copy for $600,000 US! This is from SAN:

https://stampauctionnetwork.com/Y/y10521.cfm
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

Post by Global Administrator »

ottawasteve wrote:
Siegel has sold a couple for $260-290,000 US, and one amazing copy for $600,000 US!
Collectors weirdly always "forget" the nasty Buyer Fees which is this case adds $US90,000 = $A120,000 - that little trifling fee being far more than near all on this board earns in a YEAR!

The buy was invoiced at least $US690,000 - higher still if you lived if the tri-state area due to state tax - or in the UK, Canada or NZ or Australia where Federal GST/VAT would also be levied upon arrival!

Had never thought of it as a "Bird" stamp, but yes it must be, and at well over $A900,000 invoice, it must surely take the prize!

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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

Post by Girish Vaidya »

For India, there are two sets of Bird stamps which are quite costly-

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Set of setenant waterbirds. Issued in 1994. They were withdrawn after some time as it was found that they were printed with water soluble ink!! :shock: :shock:

It sells for about Rs 7000 a set MNH on ebay.

The second is set on raptors issued in 1992, there was printing error in value of stamp and scientific name of one of the eagles :shock: :shock: . So the entire error issue was destroyed but a few got through in the year packs etc, and sell for quite a premium. Not sure of the correct price but I am told some members of our stamp club bought for about Rs 200000/-

Am unable to upload images now to photobucket.

Also an interesting article on bird stamps of India here

https://www.indianbirds.in/pdfs/Baindur_PostageStamps.pdf

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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

Post by Luis78 »

If varieties or oddities are to be included, it's really hard to say, but the leader of the pack is probably the Western Australia 4d "inverted frame", as said above.

Of the "normal" issues, the Western Austalia 1854 1/- in the salmon shade boasts the highest catalogue value.

The "Basel Dove" has 2 problems: first, it's a dove, which many consider to be a symbol of something else rather than a depiction of a bird in itself. Second, it's carrying a letter in its beak. Well, that's not at all how carrier pigeons deliver messages. It's cartoonish, to say the least. You'd expect that particular dove to sit down and have a beer after delivering the mail...

Other expensive "Birds" include:

-Several early Western Australia issues
-Imperial China (several expensive sets from 1897 onwards)
-Taiwan (1949 and onwards)
-Tibet (1911)
-the Colombian 1935 "Barranquilla" 10p Condor
-the Falkland "1993 Centenary set" 5/- Penguin (especially the 2nd printing)
-the Netherlands "1951 Airmail Seagulls" (2 values)

I hope this helps.
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

Post by Allegheny »

I was going to say, before Glen beats me to it that the Kookaburra imperf sheet should be in one of the top lists.

I was fortunate enough to be in the room for that auction. The bidding was fierce with many bids came from outside the room via internet, phone, etc.
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

Post by billw2 »

ottawasteve wrote:The American 1869 30c Eagle, Shield and Flags invert in mint condition is valued, I believe, in the $200,000+++ range.

Image

Siegel has sold a couple for $260-290,000 US, and one amazing copy for $600,000 US! This is from SAN:

https://stampauctionnetwork.com/Y/y10521.cfm

The one that brought $600K is one of I think 7 unused ones but it's not only quite well centered and fault free but it has original gum, even though only part OG while all other surviving unused copies have no gum and I think 3 of the others are faulty.

A nice unused one without gum is around $270-300K, a nice used one $100K or so and a faulty used one around $40-50K.

There is a census of them:

https://siegelauctions.com/display_census.php?catno=121b
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

Post by billw2 »

Global Administrator wrote:
ottawasteve wrote:
Siegel has sold a couple for $260-290,000 US, and one amazing copy for $600,000 US!
Collectors weirdly always "forget" the nasty Buyer Fees which is this case adds $US90,000 = $A120,000 - that little trifling fee being far more than near all on this board earns in a YEAR!

The buy was invoiced at least $US690,000 - higher still if you lived if the tri-state area due to state tax - or in the UK, Canada or NZ or Australia where Federal GST/VAT would also be levied upon arrival!

Had never thought of it as a "Bird" stamp, but yes it must be, and at well over $A900,000 invoice, it must surely take the prize!

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You'd only pay taxes if you live in NY State and/or take delivery of the items within NY State. If you lived in, say, oh I dunno, New Jersey :lol: , you'd simply spend the $30 or so and have it sent express mail insured and you wouldn't pay a penny in taxes.
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

Post by ottawasteve »

The downside of this....you have to live in New Jersey.
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

Post by Global Administrator »

ottawasteve wrote:
The downside of this....you have to live in New Jersey.
I'd demand the stamp FREE, if I had to live in Nu Joisey to own it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Bill mail rates seem to have dropped massively, if it only costs $30 to send Express, with $US690,000 insurance cover?
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

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billw2 wrote:
You'd only pay taxes if you live in NY State and/or take delivery of the items within NY State. If you lived in, say, oh I dunno, New Jersey :lol: , you'd simply spend the $30 or so and have it sent express mail insured and you wouldn't pay a penny in taxes.
I have no personal experience Bill. I only know what others tell me and info such as this - I would not bet my house on a $US690,000 purchase it would go as smoothly as you think. The New Jersey Division of Taxation appears to disagree with your thinking on this area. :lol: :lol: :lol:

And I can imagine Siegel's are not going to bend any rules or falsify paperwork, just to save any buyer, any State Taxes. :idea:

I recall when I spent a TON of money in New York on the Arthur Gray sales at Shreves, they needed to mail my the goods direct, to a foreign country, to US state dodge tax issues. Had they handed them to me in NY state I believe tax was payable. And I do recall the cost of insured mail and it was a very LARGE multiple of $30.




New Jersey Division of Taxation

Technical Services Activity

New York/New Jersey Cooperative
Interstate Tax Program


An interstate sales tax agreement allows participating New York and New Jersey vendors selling taxable
goods and services across state lines to collect the other state's sales tax. The agreement also permits the
states to actively exchange information regarding sales and use tax and corporate taxes.

The obligation to pay New Jersey and New York use tax on sales across state lines is often avoided. This
results in substantial losses of revenue for both states. The New York/New Jersey agreement provides for
the joint administration of both state's sales and use tax laws. Both state tax agencies share information on
sales across state lines to help collect the tax that is due. This helps eliminate the unfair competitive advan-
tage that some out-of-state merchants have over in-state vendors when dealing with in-state customers.


Use tax is imposed when taxable items or services are purchased but sales tax was not collected by the
retailer in the state of purchase or was collected at a rate less than the sales tax rate in the purchaser's home
state. A state's sales tax rate and use tax rate are always the same. For more information on use tax, see
ANJ-7, Use Tax in New Jersey.

Example:

John Doe, a resident of Newark, New Jersey, goes to New York City to purchase a console tele-
vision from a discount store whose only outlets are in New York. The purchase price is $800. The vendor
agrees to ship the television set to John's home in Newark. Since this item was shipped to the purchaser
across state lines, the vendor is not required to collect the New York sales tax. However, John is liable for
New Jersey use tax
of $56 ($800 ◊ 7%)

http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/pdf/pubs/sales/prior_years/anj14_0706.pdf
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

Post by billw2 »

ottawasteve wrote:The downside of this....you have to live in New Jersey.
Tell me about it. I live in a real slum.
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

Post by billw2 »

Global Administrator wrote:
ottawasteve wrote:
The downside of this....you have to live in New Jersey.
I'd demand the stamp FREE, if I had to live in Nu Joisey to own it. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Bill mail rates seem to have dropped massively, if it only costs $30 to send Express, with $US690,000 insurance cover?
Where is Nu Joisey?

Last invoice I got from Siegel for express mail shipping was $20-30 or something like that. They have private insurance that covers their shipments as do most over here with a need for it.

IIRC the shipping was about the same if the invoice was $500 or $15,000.
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

Post by billw2 »

Global Administrator wrote:
billw2 wrote:
You'd only pay taxes if you live in NY State and/or take delivery of the items within NY State. If you lived in, say, oh I dunno, New Jersey :lol: , you'd simply spend the $30 or so and have it sent express mail insured and you wouldn't pay a penny in taxes.
I have no personal experience Bill. I only know what others tell me and info such as this - I would not bet my house on a $US690,000 purchase it would go as smoothly as you think. The New Jersey Division of Taxation appears to disagree with your thinking on this area. :lol: :lol: :lol:

And I can imagine Siegel's are not going to bend any rules or falsify paperwork, just to save any buyer, any State Taxes. :idea:

I recall when I spent a TON of money in New York on the Arthur Gray sales at Shreves, they needed to mail my the goods direct, to a foreign country, to US state dodge tax issues. Had they handed them to me in NY state I believe tax was payable. And I do recall the cost of insured mail and it was a very LARGE multiple of $30.




New Jersey Division of Taxation

Technical Services Activity

New York/New Jersey Cooperative
Interstate Tax Program


An interstate sales tax agreement allows participating New York and New Jersey vendors selling taxable
goods and services across state lines to collect the other state's sales tax. The agreement also permits the
states to actively exchange information regarding sales and use tax and corporate taxes.

The obligation to pay New Jersey and New York use tax on sales across state lines is often avoided. This
results in substantial losses of revenue for both states. The New York/New Jersey agreement provides for
the joint administration of both state's sales and use tax laws. Both state tax agencies share information on
sales across state lines to help collect the tax that is due. This helps eliminate the unfair competitive advan-
tage that some out-of-state merchants have over in-state vendors when dealing with in-state customers.


Use tax is imposed when taxable items or services are purchased but sales tax was not collected by the
retailer in the state of purchase or was collected at a rate less than the sales tax rate in the purchaser's home
state. A state's sales tax rate and use tax rate are always the same. For more information on use tax, see
ANJ-7, Use Tax in New Jersey.

Example:

John Doe, a resident of Newark, New Jersey, goes to New York City to purchase a console tele-
vision from a discount store whose only outlets are in New York. The purchase price is $800. The vendor
agrees to ship the television set to John's home in Newark. Since this item was shipped to the purchaser
across state lines, the vendor is not required to collect the New York sales tax. However, John is liable for
New Jersey use tax
of $56 ($800 ◊ 7%)

http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/taxation/pdf/pubs/sales/prior_years/anj14_0706.pdf
Technically every state has this same provision (Unless you live in a state without sales tax such as New Hampshire or Delaware).

Have I ever seen it policed? No.

What it boils down to is Siegel (in this case, but it's any business really) is required to collect sales tax on anything that they sell and deliver in New York State. They are exempted if the item is exported from NY State. In your case, mailed to Australia, in my case mailed to New Jersey.
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

Post by Global Administrator »

billw2 wrote:They are exempted if the item is exported from NY State. In your case, mailed to Australia, in my case mailed to New Jersey.
Australia and the State of New Jersey, or the state of New York, do not have ANY formal exchange of purchaser data.

Nu Joisey DOES. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I know of many cases where surprise demands have been made. For ~$50,000 in dodged Sales Tax just in this single case, that does not surprise me one iota.
New Jersey Treasury wrote:Both state tax agencies share information on
sales across state lines to help collect the tax that is due. This helps eliminate the unfair competitive advan-
tage that some out-of-state merchants have over in-state vendors when dealing with in-state customers.
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'Bird' design stamp?

Post by aethelwulf »

I remember a case, 10 or 12 years ago, of a major art collector who had paintings he purchased in NYC listed on the invoice as delivered to New Jersey, but the courier dropped them at his home or office in Manhattan instead.

When he was caught he was on the hook for a big penalty. If they had actually been driven over the border, then whether you bring them back again is up to you and nobody would know.
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

Post by billw2 »

Global Administrator wrote:
billw2 wrote:They are exempted if the item is exported from NY State. In your case, mailed to Australia, in my case mailed to New Jersey.
Australia and the State of New Jersey, or the state of New York, do not have ANY formal exchange of purchaser data.

Nu Joisey DOES. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I know of many cases where surprise demands have been made. For ~$50,000 in dodged Sales Tax just in this single case, that does not surprise me one iota.
New Jersey Treasury wrote:Both state tax agencies share information on
sales across state lines to help collect the tax that is due. This helps eliminate the unfair competitive advan-
tage that some out-of-state merchants have over in-state vendors when dealing with in-state customers.
Uh Huh.

Name an example.

What the state dept of revenue might say on their website and what actually goes on are two different things.

Of course, I have lived in this area most of my life and owned a retail business in NY City so what would I know?

New Jersey NEVER asked us for sales records and would have NO legal basis to demand them (Without a court order and good luck with that).

Are occasional high profile sales going to perhaps be targeted? Yes but only in extremely isolated cases. And that stamp selling for $600K didn't make the news either.
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'Bird' design stamp?

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They never got Al Capone for murder or anything else .. only tax evasion as that is simple to prove. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nu Joisey says state tax is owed, and end of story if they start moving on anything.

"Think someone or some business is not paying their New Jersey Tax Bill?
Tell the Division of Taxation."


Other folks in the State often give them their best leads in these cases.

Any amount over $10,000 defrauded gets them interested. They can have a staffer on it for a week for only $1000 or so in wages cost. They certainty reach across Tri-State borders it seems. :lol: :lol: :lol:

New Jersey BUSINESSMAN ACCUSED OF STEALING NY SALES TAX

The New York State Department of Taxation and Finance today announced the arrest of a business owner from New Jersey on felony charges. George Wilkinson, 39, of 145 Winding Hill Drive, Hackettstown, New Jersey, is the owner of American Car Lift, LLC, located in Landing, NJ. His business installs and maintains vehicle lifts in parking garages in New York City.

Wilkinson was charged with second-degree grand larceny and third-degree criminal tax fraud. He allegedly failed to file sales tax returns and remit $153,000 in sales tax collections to New York State as a result of his business in New York from December 2011 to May 2015.

The defendant pleaded not guilty in New York County Court and was released on his own recognizance. He is scheduled to return to court on July 13.

“A business owner who fails to remit the taxes collected from customers is stealing while also putting honest business owners at a disadvantage,” said NYS Tax Department Commissioner Jerry Boone. “We will continue to work with all law enforcement agencies to bring such criminals to justice.”

If convicted of these crimes, Wilkinson could face a sentence of up to 15 years in prison and a fine of up to $306,000.

https://wwwnet1.state.nj.us/Treasury/Taxation/CATCH_Web/CatchEntry.aspx
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'Bird' design stamp?

Post by billw2 »

Global Administrator wrote:They never got Al Capone for murder or anything else .. only tax evasion as that is simple to prove. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nu Joisey says state tax is owed, and end of story if they start moving on anything.

"Think someone or some business is not paying their New Jersey Tax Bill?
Tell the Division of Taxation."


Other folks in the State often give them their best leads in these cases.

Any amount over $10,000 defrauded gets them interested. They can have a staffer on it for a week for only $1000 or so in wages cost. They certainty reach across Tri-State borders it seems. :lol: :lol: :lol:

New Jersey BUSINESSMAN ACCUSED OF STEALING NY SALES TAX

The New York State Department of Taxation and Finance today announced the arrest of a business owner from New Jersey on felony charges. George Wilkinson, 39, of 145 Winding Hill Drive, Hackettstown, New Jersey, is the owner of American Car Lift, LLC, located in Landing, NJ. His business installs and maintains vehicle lifts in parking garages in New York City.

Wilkinson was charged with second-degree grand larceny and third-degree criminal tax fraud. He allegedly failed to file sales tax returns and remit $153,000 in sales tax collections to New York State as a result of his business in New York from December 2011 to May 2015.

The defendant pleaded not guilty in New York County Court and was released on his own recognizance. He is scheduled to return to court on July 13.

“A business owner who fails to remit the taxes collected from customers is stealing while also putting honest business owners at a disadvantage,” said NYS Tax Department Commissioner Jerry Boone. “We will continue to work with all law enforcement agencies to bring such criminals to justice.”

If convicted of these crimes, Wilkinson could face a sentence of up to 15 years in prison and a fine of up to $306,000.

https://wwwnet1.state.nj.us/Treasury/Taxation/CATCH_Web/CatchEntry.aspx


Thank god I have a stamp dealer in Australia who knows how to run my dealerships in New York and New Jersey!

But since there is no place that I am aware of called "Nu Joisey" perhaps you are mistaken? Wait, that's a term that people from well outside of NJ occasionally refer to NJ as, we then laugh at them for doing so.

What Mr. Wilkinson did was fail to either remit state sales tax collected in NY State OR failed to collect NY sales tax in the first place.

Now, when you are selling items that require permits to install it's possibly easier to get caught. Also, when all of a sudden you stop sending the state sales tax remittances that tends to raise a red flag.

NJ has, again, no legal authority over a NY business. NY State, however, does have legal authority over NY businesses.
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'Bird' design stamp?

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Three free meals a day, free orange jumpsuit, and all the free weightlifting you can cope with Bill. Discount tattoos if you ask nicely. Can't beat that deal. 8)

Good to see you are oblivious to the actual Laws there.
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'Bird' design stamp?

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Global Administrator wrote:Three free meals a day, free orange jumpsuit, and all the free weightlifting you can cope with Bill. Discount tattoos if you ask nicely. Can't beat that deal. 8)

Good to see you are oblivious to the actual Laws there.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Someone doesn't collect taxes for goods sold in state and just because he lives in NJ someone who buys a stamp in NY and has it shipped out of state is going to jail.

Really?

Remember, you're talking to someone who probably remits north of $650,000 to the state of New Jersey in sales tax. Monthly.
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

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billw2 wrote:
You'd only pay taxes if you live in NY State and/or take delivery of the items within NY State. If you lived in, say, oh I dunno, New Jersey :lol: , you'd simply spend the $30 or so and have it sent express mail insured and you wouldn't pay a penny in taxes.
Bill you posted the above. Not me.

All I know is that State of Nu Joisey disagrees totally with your view on the state tax liable in this case, and I do also know the "$30" shipping for something insured for $US690,00, would be a MEGA times what you state.
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Re: What is the world's most valuable 'bird' stamp?

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Global Administrator wrote:
billw2 wrote:
You'd only pay taxes if you live in NY State and/or take delivery of the items within NY State. If you lived in, say, oh I dunno, New Jersey :lol: , you'd simply spend the $30 or so and have it sent express mail insured and you wouldn't pay a penny in taxes.
Bill you posted the above. Not me.

All I know is that State of Nu Joisey disagrees totally with your view on the state tax liable in this case, and I do also know the "$30" shipping for something insured for $US690,00, would be a MEGA times what you state.
Please show me an example where the State of New Jersey has gone after an individual for failing to pay state sales tax on purchased made out of state. You won't, because they haven't. All you've come up with is a resident of New Jersey who, while working in New York, failed to remit sales tax to the State of New York.

And that is a completely different matter entirely.
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