Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by satsuma »

I came across this recently in a mixed lot of 4d olive watermarks and perforations.
4d olive single watermark cto OS.jpg
Single watermark OS with Melbourne CTO cancel. Not listed in my 2018 ACSC catalogue.
Is this a known omission or something new and/or special?

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

4d CTO is 114w, Cat $100 used.

The OS perfin on this stamp as can be seen, is about the same as non OS, and price will be similar thus.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by satsuma »

Thanks

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by alex_c_y1977 »

4d olive single watermark perf OS CTO from my collection
4d olive single CTO.JPG


And 4d olive single watermark CTO block of four
4d olive CTO block of four.JPG
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by alex_c_y1977 »

4½d Die II x 2 purchased recently.
line perf die 2 - Copy (2).jpeg
The one on the left - plated as 3R12 (BW121g - extension of inner white border opposite lowest wattle at right).

The one on the right - plated as 3R23 - Right Value Tablet: white flaw from lower border of the right value tablet cutting down through 3 shading lines. Not listed in BW but can't see why it shouldn't be.

Cheers
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by jojo »

The Pom wrote:
30 May 2020 06:31
Any thoughts on this Third (narrow crown) watermark?

I believe it has the "GPO MELBOURNE / VIC AUST" cancel. This seems to come in 2 main types, this being the variety with taller/narrower lettering.

I've not been through all 97 pages of this topic(!), but a look back through the last couple of pages has produced a couple of similar, which I've copied below. However, my stamp seems to have somewhat thicker lettering. Natural variation, a different cancel or a modern fake?



The ACSC says with respect to date of issue: "The first printing was in December 1923. A first day cover has been reported dated 6 December 1923." This stamp is dated 11 Dec 23.


My stamp.

Image

From previous posts:

Image

Image
.

The 6d Melbourne cancellation is similar to a one pound grey and two shilling maroon of mine, both third watermarks. I believe they were presentation cancels for the UPU.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by rsellens »

This 9d kangaroo is being advertised on Ebay at the moment as a Brisbane CTO.

9d roo.jpg

This 9d Roo Brisbane CTO was featured on Stampboards 0n 21/7/2017.


Image


Could one of you CTO experts please comment on the genuineness of the advertised stamp. The postmarks appear different to me and the paper appears to be of a different quality.

Ross

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Paul_S »

Ross

It is certainly difficult sometimes to distinguish CTOs from other cancels in the absence of a conclusive date (although the presence of gum can be a helpful indicator!).

I have prepared an image below showing the two 9d values you illustrate, a suitably sized image of the Brisbane CTO cancel (from a 10/- block of four) and three stamps that I think are reasonably convincing 9d Brisbane CTOs (one is from the Gray CTOs illustrated earlier in this thread, page 17 I believe).


BrisbaneCancels_9d.jpg


The Brisbane CTOs are generally (but not always) well struck and positioned in a fairly consistent orientation, although there is some variation (there is some slight doubling on the 10/- cancel making the letters a little thicker in appearance in parts of the cancel).

When considering a possible CTO in the absence of a date, looking at the size and shape of the letters and the distance from the outer ring of the cancel are the obvious tests to apply. Stamp centring and fluffiness of the perforations compared to known examples can be another clue, although the former will vary within the pane (and I think that there were two full panes of this value released) and the perforations can be "improved".

Based on all the above, I am not sure that I am convinced that either of the two candidate stamps is a Brisbane CTO, but others who are better qualified than me may take a different view.

Best to all

Paul_S

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by jojo »

A scarcer CTO, full gum

2d orange KCV CTO
2d orange KCV CTO

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Monogram »

rsellens wrote:
18 Jun 2020 16:13
This 9d kangaroo is being advertised on Ebay at the moment as a Brisbane CTO.


Image


This 9d Roo Brisbane CTO was featured on Stampboards 0n 21/7/2017.


Image


Could one of you CTO experts please comment on the genuineness of the advertised stamp. The postmarks appear different to me and the paper appears to be of a different quality.

Ross
I would be happy to say neither stamps are Brisbane CTO's

Of what you can see of the date below does not look right

Cheers Erik
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0000049642_RGB_B(norm_w_0.1pct,equalized,8-bit)_full.jpg

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Monogram »

Latest purchase 1d KGV Acsc 71w~SG21c SINGLE WMK CTO WITH MELBOURNE GPO CANCEL ORIGINAL GUM LH
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1d KGV Acsc 71w~SG21c SINGLE WMK RED CTO with Melbourne GPO.jpg

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by GB 789 »

Please could you tell me if these are CTO examples. I am sure the 6d Brown (3rd watermark) is because it has full gum remaining and a similar cancellation as on other stamps shown here. Likewise the 5/- stamp (Crown C of A watermark). I am unsure about the 1/- OS stamp though as it does have the Melbourne GPO postmark and some gum remaining but it doesn’t seem as nice as the other cancels so may be a normal postmark.

Could you also tell me what sort of value these stamps have if they were to be sold, does CTO increase the value or would they just be valued the same as used examples in the SG catalogue. Many thanks
Attachments
BEA3E9F8-F1A1-4620-999F-23D37B8303D5.jpeg
96C665AA-241A-4330-9BAA-767FCA40449B.jpeg
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B5561EFB-4479-472F-ACCB-525D8736AC7C.jpeg
1D78DA92-2EC8-42F4-8DDB-F1844BC36757.jpeg
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by amfhf1 »

I would say it is not a CTO cancel and the positioning is not normally what you would see.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by satsuma »

As there is a 3 after the Melbourne on your 1s OS postmark it can be ruled out as an official CTO.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by GB 789 »

Apologies for the delay in acknowledging your replies but thank you for them. In terms of value, can these CTO examples be assumed to be worth the same as postally used or not?

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Monogram »

ACSC book value for 6p Die11b is $25 and 5/ CofA CTO $60 so more than used but maybe lucky to get $20 each

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Yes in my experience the 6d 1923 Third Wmk CTO is FAR scarcer - by a factor of 3 or 4 times, than the 5/- CofA.

The ACSC is quite insane with a $25 figure on the 6d. :roll:

I handle more used Roos than any other dealer, and it is a tough stamp to secure.

Glen
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by GB 789 »

Global Administrator wrote:
28 Jul 2020 18:31
.
Yes in my experience the 6d 1923 Third Wmk CTO is FAR scarcer - by a factor of 3 or 4 times, than the 5/- CofA.

The ACSC is quite insane with a $25 figure on the 6d. :roll:

I handle more used Roos than any other dealer, and it is a tough stamp to secure.

Glen
Thanks for the useful information. Was it possible to obtain blocks of 4 cancelled to order or were only single stamps so treated?
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

GB 789 wrote:
28 Jul 2020 20:00

Thanks for the useful information. Was it possible to obtain blocks of 4 cancelled to order or were only single stamps so treated?
.

Well as you will see if you READ this thread, there are numerous CTO block 4 that exist- several are shown on THIS page alone. Not common, and command a premium, but they certainly do exist.

I put this superb block 9 into stock recently. Australia 1931 3d Kingsford Smith OS overprint - superb full gum, perfect centred, part imprint marginal block 9. With Simon Dunkerley Photo Certificate.


Australia 1931 3d Kingsford Smith OS overprint - superb full gum marginal block 9.  With Simon Dunkerley Photo Certificate.
Australia 1931 3d Kingsford Smith OS overprint - superb full gum marginal block 9. With Simon Dunkerley Photo Certificate.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by rsellens »

GB 789 wrote:
21 Jul 2020 05:51
Please could you tell me if these are CTO examples. I am sure the 6d Brown (3rd watermark) is because it has full gum remaining and a similar cancellation as on other stamps shown here. Likewise the 5/- stamp (Crown C of A watermark). I am unsure about the 1/- OS stamp though as it does have the Melbourne GPO postmark and some gum remaining but it doesn’t seem as nice as the other cancels so may be a normal postmark.

Could you also tell me what sort of value these stamps have if they were to be sold, does CTO increase the value or would they just be valued the same as used examples in the SG catalogue. Many thanks

Untitled.jpg


This is the constant variety "White flaw on kangaroo's leg". ACSC 46(V)k.

Its catalogue value is $150 used. It is theoretically supposed to be worth more CTO.

I have seen CTO CofA 5/- kangaroo varieties sell on ebay for anything from $20 to $100 or more. It just depends on whether the are a couple of bidders after them or not.

Ross

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by satsuma »

Global Administrator wrote:
28 Jul 2020 18:31
.
Yes in my experience the 6d 1923 Third Wmk CTO is FAR scarcer - by a factor of 3 or 4 times, than the 5/- CofA.

The ACSC is quite insane with a $25 figure on the 6d. :roll:

I handle more used Roos than any other dealer, and it is a tough stamp to secure.

Glen
I agree with Glen.

I have 8 x CofA 5/- CTO against 3 postally used.

I have no 3rd watermark 6d CTO against 8 postally used.

At the time I acquired them I was not looking for CTO, they were just the ones that came my way.

I think many of the postally used 5/- had heavy parcel cancels or were damaged in transit whereas the CTO were generally clean copies and were kept and traded.


5s CofA 490.jpg

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by alex_c_y1977 »

alex_c_y1977 wrote:
09 Jun 2015 02:27
Good afternoon all
Picked up the following 1½d brown large multiple watermark recently. Stamp has MUH gum and looks like to me the Brisbane CTO cancel applied to other KGV stamps:

Image

Last year I did pick up 2 x 1½d black brown large multiple watermark with Brisbane CTOs (both stamps also have MUH gum)

Image

And here are some other Brisbane CTO stamps from my collection which I have shown before:

Image

Cheers
Alex :)
Good evening all

A few years ago I picked up a 1½d brown large multiple watermark with Brisbane CTO cancel (the stamp has MUH gum)

Earlier this year I have picked up another one - this time the stamp also has MUH gum
1.5d brown Brisbane CTO front (2).jpeg
1.5d brown Brisbane CTO back.jpeg
Looks perfectly legit to me, especially since the stamp still have full gum and with same type of Brisbane CTO cancel applied to other KGV stamps of the same period.

Not listed in ACSC but from the Australia Post archive sales it did have a lot showing large multiple watermark blocks with CTO cancel (but I don't think the sales mentioned which type of cancel and simply say it is CTO? I remember reading it somewhere but can't be 100% sure) - see Lot 192 in the scan below
Australia Post archive sales.JPG


Cheers
Alex

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by alex_c_y1977 »

Just having a look re lot 192 of the Australia Post archive sale - part of that lot included 1½d red small multiple watermark p.12.5x13.5 perf OS CTO block of 24.

I am wondering if the block in my collection (which I bought couple of years ago) is the same block from this lot?

.
IMG_0613 - Copy.JPEG

It is actually a difficult CTO stamp to find! I have seen tons of 1½d brown small multiple watermark p.12.5x13.5 perf OS CTO but NOT in red.

Cheers
Alex
.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by satsuma »

alex_c_y1977 wrote:
29 Jul 2020 19:01

Not listed in ACSC but from the Australia Post archive sales it did have a lot showing large multiple watermark blocks with CTO cancel (but I don't think the sales mentioned which type of cancel and simply say it is CTO? I remember reading it somewhere but can't be 100% sure) - see Lot 192 in the scan below

Image

Cheers
Alex
Hello
Is there a link you can provide which provides all the details of the archival sale?

Or alternatively could you post the whole catalogue to the wiki?

It's the sort of thing worthy of a permanent record.

Thanks

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by alex_c_y1977 »

satsuma wrote:
29 Jul 2020 19:43
alex_c_y1977 wrote:
29 Jul 2020 19:01

Not listed in ACSC but from the Australia Post archive sales it did have a lot showing large multiple watermark blocks with CTO cancel (but I don't think the sales mentioned which type of cancel and simply say it is CTO? I remember reading it somewhere but can't be 100% sure) - see Lot 192 in the scan below


Image


Cheers
Alex
Hello
Is there a link you can provide which provides all the details of the archival sale?

Or alternatively could you post the whole catalogue to the wiki?

It's the sort of thing worthy of a permanent record.

Thanks
Unfortunately I don't have the whole catalogue... I got the scan from a member here a long time ago as I was looking for more information re large multiple watermark CTO stamps since these were not listed anywhere, and very little is known about such stamps.

If anyone has a full catalogue it would be great to post to wiki as I would certainly be interested as well!

Cheers
Alex

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Alex .... if the 1½d red small multiple watermark block has full gum, it will be from Archive sale for certain.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by alex_c_y1977 »

Global Administrator wrote:
29 Jul 2020 22:09
.
Alex .... if the 1½d red small multiple watermark block has full gum, it will be from Archive sale for certain.

Hi Glen

The block does have full MUH gum :)

Cheers

Alex

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by amfhf1 »

While nothing to rare here with first look for $29.99 I don't care. All have full gum never hinged completely fresh white backs.

stbcto1.jpg

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

.
The leftover carcass of a Specimen pack some US/Canada dealer cherry-picked.

Of course knowledge is power and as the dopes at Scott do not list the Die 2, 4.5d KGV, these geniuses assume it is of low value. :lol:
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by GB 789 »

rsellens wrote:
28 Jul 2020 21:36
GB 789 wrote:
21 Jul 2020 05:51
Please could you tell me if these are CTO examples. I am sure the 6d Brown (3rd watermark) is because it has full gum remaining and a similar cancellation as on other stamps shown here. Likewise the 5/- stamp (Crown C of A watermark). I am unsure about the 1/- OS stamp though as it does have the Melbourne GPO postmark and some gum remaining but it doesn’t seem as nice as the other cancels so may be a normal postmark.

Could you also tell me what sort of value these stamps have if they were to be sold, does CTO increase the value or would they just be valued the same as used examples in the SG catalogue. Many thanks

Image


This is the constant variety "White flaw on kangaroo's leg". ACSC 46(V)k.

Its catalogue value is $150 used. It is theoretically supposed to be worth more CTO.

I have seen CTO CofA 5/- kangaroo varieties sell on ebay for anything from $20 to $100 or more. It just depends on whether the are a couple of bidders after them or not.

Ross
Many thanks for this information, I didn’t spot any flaw so it’s nice to know it’s a bit more valuable. I think I’ll keep this one as it’s a nice example all round but may put the 6d on eBay and see if it garners any interest as I have a good number of that stamp already.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Kainnikanada »

alex_c_y1977 wrote:
29 Jul 2020 20:14

Unfortunately I don't have the whole catalogue... I got the scan from a member here a long time ago as I was looking for more information re large multiple watermark CTO stamps since these were not listed anywhere, and very little is known about such stamps.

If anyone has a full catalogue it would be great to post to wiki as I would certainly be interested as well!

Cheers
Alex

Alex,

I have both catalogues.

I'll create a wiki listing their pages and a thread where members can add scans of items attributed to the sale. I'll then post them to the wiki.

You could then contribute a high res scan of that block.
Looking for NSW cut-down relief date stamps, as seen in my avatar, to add to my collection.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Monogram »

Kainnikanada wrote:
03 Aug 2020 07:47

Alex,

I have both catalogues.

I'll create a wiki listing their pages and a thread where members can add scans of items attributed to the sale. I'll then post them to the wiki.

You could then contribute a high res scan of that block.
Look forward to the thread Rod

Erik

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

jrg wrote:
06 Jul 2016 21:36

What a waste. The OS puncture is forged.

Image


This came from a deceased estate in England - no record of where or when it was purchased. It was offered at auction recently, but withdrawn after representations from PCNZA.
Wish I had seen the sale. I'd have bought it.

Perfin Club has made all kinds of loopy deliberations in the past re OS - often on stamps that they have never handled in the flesh,

I am not convinced that some CTO 5/- large and small OS were never made by PO.

I had a 5/- Large OS once that had impeccable provenance. Presentation set for some big-shots etc- who knows.

Glen

Image
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Monogram »

.
Latest purchase - 1st Watermark 2½d Indigo block of 4 with Melbourne DE3 13 flat top 3 CTO cancel, BW 9wb, two units hinged, Double perfs on 2 sides.

We think what we have is an inverted comb going up or down the sheet, and there is a perf jump in the alignment in the vertical of about 25% to the left in the top row.

Perhaps part of the sheet somewhere to the right has been imperf, so they have intentionally made new vertical perf rows in the right of the sheet to rectify the problem.

The finished product has been poor in quality, so put to one side to be perfed 'OS', but instead been used for CTO sets. Let me know what you think?

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2½d Indigo block of 4 with Melbourne DE3 13 (flat top 3 CTO cancel, BW 9wb, two units hinged, Double perfs on 2 sides.jpg
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Strange piece that is not reported in ACSC -- always a huge alarm bell.

It is inconceivable to me that sheets put aside for hand tearing up into collector sets by the Bureau, would have had any double perfs.

I am not at all convinced that these perf pin placements are possible if it were genuine double perfs.
Gray did not have any examples, nor Hardy, nor Goldfarm - who was big on CTO blocks.

The long distance arrowed in red of the alleged double perfs cannot exist, and does not coincide with the other double row! Also the holes of the alleged double perf row are not all spherical as is readiy seen, and several have paper wisps inside a sure sign of fake perfs.

I saw it in the recent same sale you did, and passed over it. The low estimate, and the low price it fetched speak volumes really. The market spoke!

Why anyone would mess with the CTO bock defies imagination really.

Does it now have a Certificate?



Genuine double perfs?  I do not think so.
Genuine double perfs? I do not think so.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Monogram »

Interesting
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Well do not mention me. :roll:

YOU have 2 eyes and decided you liked it for the 4 figures you paid.

Six weeks after the sale, the vendor will have been paid out, so add it to your mystery box, as you have zero chance of getting a refund due to the long time-lapse, and for a VERY clearly illustrated lot that you had no issues whatever with.

These are Public Stamp Auctions - not stamp approval companies. :roll:

All buyers of items in that price league are expected to do due diligence of their own.

Auctions do not have this term in there to waste ink -

''A lot that is illustrated in the catalogue or of which an illustration has been supplied to the buyer or to the buyer's agent cannot be returned for any reason that is apparent from the illustration.''

Get a Cert and see what they say.

You (''we'') decided you already had the answers - so clearly You (''we'') were happy with it.

''We think what we have is an inverted comb going up or down the sheet, and there is a perf jump in the alignment in the vertical of about 25% to the left in the top row.

Perhaps part of the sheet somewhere to the right has been imperf, so they have intentionally made new vertical perf rows in the right of the sheet to rectify the problem.''
.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Kainnikanada »

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I, too, couldn't account for the variation in the vertical gap between the left and right columns of perforation holes on the right column of stamps.

At first I assumed a possible single line perf setup/usage but that observation didn't concur with what was visible. ...and a comb perforater wouldn't have had a slightly off-kilter set of pins.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Lesley »

Lucky find ? CTO, die 2 SMW perf 13.5. Opinion most welcome.


Die 2 SMW  CTO
Die 2 SMW CTO

Thanks ,

Les

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Lesley .. cannot recall ever seeing Die 2 in CTO ... but it certainly does look convincing to me!

= = = =

Rod, yes to me also, it just does not line up. Someone messing with a CTO block is remote, so go figger. :)

Kainnikanada wrote:
24 Aug 2020 06:30
.
I, too, couldn't account for the variation in the vertical gap between the left and right columns of perforation holes on the right column of stamps.

At first I assumed a possible single line perf setup/usage but that observation didn't concur with what was visible. ...and a comb perforater wouldn't have had a slightly off-kilter set of pins.
.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

odcLa7k.jpg
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KGV 4.5d CTO flaw.jpg
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Something you will never see again! Australia KGV 4½d Die 2 stamp CTO in RH margin crisp central block 4, with a constant plate variety. :D

As all know, very few of this Die 2 stamp are well centred, even singles. Even Arthur Gray's used pair below is poorly centred, but was invoiced for well over $10,700 - several times estimate.

Value $75 each as single off-centre CTO stamps. ACSC advises any multiples exist from the cunning Miller Brothers chicanery, in the Great Depression years! ACSC also notes only 24,000 Die 2 stamps were supplied to PO, and a decent chunk of those were later destroyed, so a very RARE stamp.

I bought this well centred RH margin block 4 CTO of these from Arthur Gray many years ago (well outside of the main Gray sale in 2015 thank goodness!) that I just found in the rubble on my desk, and added to stock for $1,350 - Stock 253AK. (ACSC Note#2, cat $1,750 for an average centred non-margin block, with no plate variety.)

The Pom helpfully plated the large flaw as position 3R23, so the block comprises positions 3R17, 3R18, 3R23,3R24. ACSC lists 4 silly tiny speck flaws at FIVE times normals. This plated variety been reported to ACSC.

Has a very obvious to the naked eye plate flaw on the ''4'' of stamp 3. Only a few CTO blocks exist, near all without margins and poor centred. With side margins, and a large plate flaw - will be 100% UNIQUE for sure.

Glen



Australia KGV 4½d Die 2 stamp CTO in imprint pair - was invoiced for well over $10,700 at Arthur Gray sale - several times estimate.
Australia KGV 4½d Die 2 stamp CTO in imprint pair - was invoiced for well over $10,700 at Arthur Gray sale - several times estimate.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Trent »

Global Administrator wrote:
14 Aug 2020 11:25
jrg wrote:
06 Jul 2016 21:36

What a waste. The OS puncture is forged.

Image


This came from a deceased estate in England - no record of where or when it was purchased. It was offered at auction recently, but withdrawn after representations from PCNZA.
Wish I had seen the sale. I'd have bought it.

Perfin Club has made all kinds of loopy deliberations in the past re OS - often on stamps that they have never handled in the flesh,

I am not convinced that some CTO 5/- large and small OS were never made by PO.

I had a 5/- Large OS once that had impeccable provenance. Presentation set for some big-shots etc - who knows.

Glen

Image

Strange that ACSC reports that all small OS punctures on that stamp are presumed to be fakes. Always a huge alarm bell.
.
I really should be doing something else...

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Monogram »

1d Carmine-aniline, (G33) CTO with part Melbourne cds. Exceptional example of this rare stamp with ACSC listed variety 'thin One Penny' (pos VIII14) & full original gum. ACSC 71Zw(4)L
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1d Carmine-aniline, (G33) CTO with part Melbourne cds. Exceptional example of this rare stamp with ACSC listed variety 'thin One Penny' (pos VIII14) & full original gum. ACSC 71Zw(4) L.jpg

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

Trent wrote:
07 Sep 2020 21:01

Strange that ACSC reports that all small OS punctures on that stamp are presumed to be fakes. Always a huge alarm bell.
.

Kellow works on the logical premise that where he cannot see specific work orders for OS in the records, we cannot assume any were done.

OS perfins were a sideshow to the main records which were of stamps PRINTED of each value.

The small reality that WWI had started when these would have been done, and the stamp printer ofice was in chaos with masses of old hands enlisting in droves, and newbies replacing them, meant things were not as routine as usual.

Genuine OS perfins do exist on the 5/- 1913 Small OS - I have seen them, and with clear provenance. And the Large OS CTO -- 100% genuine.

Geoff Kellow for years resisted listing perf OS on 10/- and £2 Pound Small Multiple watermark Kangaroos, again as he could not see any records of them being done in printer day books.

Arthur Gray and I gave him evidence of undoubtedly genuine perfins from collections formed pre-war, and in the case of the £2 both our copies had the perfin unusually high and same centring position to being genuine of course.

Both are now listed in ACSC - see his note re ACSC 57(1). They are priced at $50,000 and $45,000 mint and used. There are still records of them being done in printer day books. :lol: :lol: :lol:

More detail on that saga here -

https://www.glenstephens.com/sndecember17.html

Closed and blinkered minds mean philately NEVER advances. :!: :!:

Geoff Kellow for years resisted listing perf OS on 10/- and £2 Pound Small Multiple watermark Kangaroos, again as he could not see any records of them being done in printer day books.
Geoff Kellow for years resisted listing perf OS on 10/- and £2 Pound Small Multiple watermark Kangaroos, again as he could not see any records of them being done in printer day books.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

.
AUSTRALIA_Kangaroos_-_First_Watermark_2-_Brown_3600963.jpg

I recently purchased this pretty 1913 2/- Kangaroo CTO block of 4.

The cancels as we all know of these early CTOs using this cds were in this one strike on 2 stamp format as can be seen.

Listed up a cheapie 4d Orange KGV tonight with Inverted Watermark and also with this CTO cancel but across the CORNER as can be seen.

Do others have these?

Have sold a few over the years with the half circle cancel but cannot recall this usage? Does anyone else?


image0.jpg

Australia KGV 4d Orange INVERTED WMK and CTO!

Clean and fresh and attractive, with deep rich colour.

Inverted Watermark and CTO .. unusually, with the usual CTO cancel across a corner and NOT in half circle at either side as near all were done as in the first 2 years on Roos and KGV. $A40.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Monogram »

.

Troy has just shown me his copies of 4d Orange Inverted wmk CTO.

He has 4 copies, 2 of which have half cancels, and 2 have corner cancels, so it seems that perhaps the corner cancels are confined to the inverted wmks.

Interested to know if others have corner cancel copies too :D

How much is the 2/- block of 4 Glen? Does it have full gum?

Erik

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

.
Great info on the 4d thanks Erik. :D

Seemed unusual to me when I was scanning it, as can only recall seeing the half circle versions, but Troy has some nice stuff! Someone here grabbed it for $40 very fast, and I bet finding another would not be an easy task.

The 2/- block is full gum I think. Lost on my desk now, but will list it when it reappears. Can only be a couple out there with gum I'd suspect, maybe no others at all, and will be something with a figure 2 in front when it emerges from the junk on my desk. :mrgreen:

I get $275-$300 for nice full gum CTO SINGLES of the 2/- these days, and a block is a very rare beast, especially well centred. :D

Glen
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Mark Houston »

.
Hi All,

It has been some time since my last post but this find is worth sharing.

A fellow Stamp Boards member advised me about this scarce 1/- CTO and it is a stunning find.

At first glance you could assume it is the common 1/- inverted watermark CTO

The watermark was described as being inverted.

It is a flat 3 cancel and the only one known to my knowledge.

The possibility is for the other values to exist being the 5d, 6d, 9d and two shillings are real.

Given that it sold for less than a round 3 cancel I hope it is appreciated by the purchaser for it's scarcity.


One Bob Flat 3.jpg
Mark Houston

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