Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by RodT »

2d Red KGV, Single Wmk
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

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1/4d Turquoise-Blue KGV, Single Wmk
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

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1d Green KGV, Small Multiple Wmk, P14
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

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½d Orange KGV, Small Multiple Wmk p13½ x 12½
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

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1½d Brown KGV, Small Multiple Wmk p13½ x 12½
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

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2d Brown KGV, Small Multiple Wmk p13½ x 12½
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

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3d Blue KGV, Small Multiple Wmk, Die 1a, p13½ x 12½
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

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4½d Violet KGV, Small Multiple Wmk, Die 1, p13½ x 12½
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

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4½d Violet KGV, Small Multiple Wmk, Die 2, p13½ x 12½ (unissued)
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

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2d Surcharge Golden-Scarlet KGV, Small Multiple Wmk, p13½ x 12½
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

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4d Olive KGV, C of A Wmk
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by RodT »

5d Chestnut KGV, C of A Wmk
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by Clive »

Rod,

A great selection of your CTOs, I really like that block of four 1d violets, can't recall ever seeing such a block before.

Keep 'em coming, and thanks for sharing.

David Potts - waiting for you to find this thread. :) :)

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by Clive »

Peter, Rod,

This is just about my favourite CTO - I think it would be difficult to find a better copy in CTO.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by Global Administrator »

clive willingham wrote:I think it would be difficult to find a better copy in CTO.

Well anything in life is possible. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by Clive »

I'm very fond of this pair - it isn't often that you will see a first watermark 3d die 2 in CTO

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by Clive »

Glen,

I was talking about the 1/- ANZAC. Beat it if you can.

But since you dragged that two quid out again, that cancellation - it's been applied a bit heavy-handed, hasn't it? Even so, I'd take it off your hands at an appropriate discount. :lol: :lol: I expect Didge would have something to say about that.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by Clive »

The ½d and 1d first watermark roos

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by Clive »

The 2d and 2½d first watermark roos

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by Global Administrator »

Image
Clive yes some lovely pieces .. ditto Rod's. :)

The MOST often seen CTO cancels on Roos and KGV are these 3 above.

Now if you want to talk about HEAVY strikes ...................... :D

HOWEVER this rather ugly one, (almost fake looking) was used mid 20s as per below, that I sold last year.

It is 100% a Melbourne CTO cancel.

This has full gum and as can be be seen the cancel is BEFORE the date of issue. This was used for a 1924 UPU folder goodies booklet.

My guess is a folder was broken down, the the high values like £1 and £2 sold off, and the cheapies ended up in a basic collection. :lol:
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by davpot »

Fascinating display of CTOs!

Rod T: That 5d above may be a presentation cancel! If it has gum even more likely. It sure looks familiar.

BTW a beaut of a 1d purpy block, just gorgeous! Not to detract from the others of course.

As for the 1d Roo CTO, I think I have 3...2NG.

I had no idea anyone had posted on this topic again. Well worth seeing!

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by Clive »

Hi Dave,
As for the 1d Roo CTO, I think I have 3...2NG.
Any chance of you posting a scan please mate?

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by RodT »

Clive,
Your 1/- Anzac is just superb! Puts mine to shame.

I don't have any 1d, 2d or 3d roos CTO - I'll be on the lookout for them now though. :)

Dave,
Regrettably that 5d KGV doesn't have gum. All the others except for the 10/- OS roo thankfully do.

Just to make up, here's some more of the 5d all with full gum:-
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by Clive »

Hi Rod,

Gee, you've got some nice stamps!!

Thanks, yes, as I said that 1/- ANZAC is my pride and joy. And believe it or not, I bought it off ebay for an absolute song - around $30 IIRC.

Dave,

Regrettably that 5d KGV doesn't have gum. All the others except for the 10/- OS roo thankfully do.

This raises yet again a topic that has been written about often on these boards - are CTOs more valuable with gum, or to put the question slightly differently, is the market price for CTOs without gum less than the equivalent stamps with gum? I guess the question relates mainly to pre-decimal Oz stamps.

Of course, Rod T and me are lucky, the climate in the Sceptr'd Isle is just about perfect for stamps. Almost nil humidity. So gum has a much better chance here than anywhere else in the country.

Personally, I much prefer my CTOs to be without gum. I recently bought some great CTOs from Glen and it never even occurred to me to ask if they had gum.

I do keep any MNH items that come my way intact, unless they have the slightest trace of toning or rust, in which case in for a Palmolive Greened hot bath they go.

Likewise any stamps which are hinged or have hinge remainders/marks. So it follows that almost all of my CTOs are without gum.

What do others think about CTOs with or without gum?

Clive

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by traralgon3844 »

2 Shilling 1st Watermark.

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5 Shilling 1st Watermark.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

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5 Shilling Small Multiple Watermark.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

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5 Shilling Small Multiple Watermark Perf OS.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

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2 Shilling Small Multiple Watermark Perf OS.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

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1 Shilling Small Multiple Watermark Perf OS.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by traralgon3844 »

9d Small Multiple Watermark Perf OS.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by Clive »

Glen,

I meant to follow up on this earlier -
Oddly I get $400 readily for a CTO 5/-, and DOUBLE that for the 1913 high value Specimens done in identical number, but when I ask just 5% of that for the (far scarcer) lower values and collectors want to burn me at the stake.
If you can't stand the heat get away from the bonfire ...... :lol:

But seriously, your point is spot on.

There isn't a day goes past when a CTO 5/- Bridge isn't being offered for sale at some auction or another, or on eBay and the like. Almost any dealer would have one available for sale. I don't keep a close eye on prices realised, but am guessing they trade in the $220-300 range. In fact they seem to be so plentiful I've often wondered if the 'official' printing number (72,800) has been understated.

By way of contrast, how often does, for example, a really nice copy of a first watermark 2d or a 2½d CTO roo come up? There were only ever say a couple of thousand absolute max issued. Thier survival rate is demonstrably very, very low - we could be and probably are talking a few hundred at most, and I doubt if it is actually that many.

Rod T - that CTO third watermark 6d ultramarine you posted up is a gem. My point is that I reckon I could lay my hands on a half-dozen 5/- Bridges in a week, were I to be so minded, which I'm not. On the other hand, I'd love to lay my hands on even one of those CTO 6d third watermarks, but I'm betting the cupboard is pretty bare.

Be most interesting to hear Glen's thoughts on the availability of top grade CTOs in today's marketplace.

Clive

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by traralgon3844 »

The uber common 10 Shilling Third Watermark.

This is a stamp you don't want CTO.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by Global Administrator »

Clive the Anzac is a lovely copy. 8)

Re gum, clearly fresh MUH and CTO cancel gets top price. Can never have been faked.

I often buy them with several hinges on back.

I bought a 10/- 1913 recently that looked great on the front, for $900. Was a $1250 stamp easily.

Decided to soak the hinges off, so it looked even better, and they were cleverly hiding a shallow thinning.

Sold it for $500 to someone yesterday on the basis of the nice appearance. OUCH.

So, show me a 10/- with a nice flat back and no hinges, and the same stamp with several hinges for a little less price - and I'll take the flat back all day long! 8)
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by Global Administrator »

I looked in my stock for a good example of the genuine CTO cancel of the 6d Blue THIRD wmk as a member here asked me for one.

I have at least 500 x 6d blue 3rd wmk in all grades, and about 20 of those are VFU/Superb postal used. and just one of them was PO CTO, so they certainly are dead scarce.

I see one each few years. This is a TON scarcer than any 1st watermark CTO value 5/- and under of course, of which I have 100s.

This is very fresh with nice original gum, and has a July 1922 CTO dated cds. (The Harrison was issued July 1921 and the 6d Brown came on stream December 1923, so the Harrison window was very short.)
Image
It appears likely to have that identical undated July 1922 cancel to Rod's superb 1d block below - the only one of that I have seen, so a special reason must be behind them both.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by Clive »

Glen,

I've never regretted for a moment buying that 6d third watermark ultramarine from you, even if I'm always looking out for a better centred copy. :D
It appears likely to have that identical undated July 1922 cancel to Rod's superb 1d block below - the only one of that I have seen, so a special reason must be behind them both.
I'd noticed the similarity - identicality (is that a word) - between the cancel on that 6d roo and Rod's magnificent 1d violet block.

A UPU presentation do you think?

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by Global Administrator »

clive willingham wrote:
Thanks, yes, as I said that 1/- ANZAC is my pride and joy. And believe it or not, I bought it off ebay for an absolute song - around $30 IIRC.

For some odd reason no-one places much premium (now) on non Roo/KGV CTOs.

I offered this "Jumbo Gem" for $75 here to total disinterest! Let them eat CAKE he cried. 8) :lol:

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=20021

Price of the currrent AP Annual album -- $100 .. sales of those 400,000 units a year. A PO year book is worth $25 more than this-- WHO is kidding who??!!!

If you assembled 200 x 6d Kooka CTO this would be THE best, as line perf stamps like this and your Anzac are all over the place.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by RodT »

Every time I see a nice kooka like that Glen, I think about these again:-

http://stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=16693&start=0

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by Clive »

Glen,

Yes, it's a great stamp, worth the asking price for sure. I have several CTO kookas, none quite that good. But my favourite, which possibly you may recall, since you sold it to me umpteen years ago, is this little beauty -
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It isn't by any stretch a CTO but you gotta love those 'thimble' cancels .

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by Global Administrator »

Wow ... can only vaguely recall that one, but a w/c postal 1914 WA "Thimble" is a lovely thing. :mrgreen:

As Rod points out in his post of the stolen ones - THIS is what centering this stamp usually has -
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by PeterS »

This is a lot I picked up recently. The description was something like "used officials" and the price was US$65.

When they arrived I found them all to have full gum, with only one stamp showing any sign of ever having been hinged. They all have the same cancel of 10 MY 37.

The 6d is CofA
Image

Image

The 2/- is Third WMK.
Image

Both Small Multi
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The 1/4d is Small Multi
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTOs

Post by davpot »

Pete: Very nice pickup Indeed! I was at our local stamp club collectors day today and spoke with "dimbulb" (Chris) about his trip back east. While there he snagged 2 sets of the AIF 1940 set; one NG and one with Gum. Im hoping he will see this thread and post some of his material. He's been collecting Aussie for decades. I will post some stuff tonight.
Dave :mrgreen:
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by PeterS »

Here is an example of why it is, sometimes, good to have a CTO stamp that has been washed. Can you see why? :)

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by PeterS »

Whilst we are on the subject of OS CTOs, it needs to be remembered that the only way these stamps could be obtained legally (other than the 6d Airmail) was from letters or from Specimen sets. They were added to specimen sets to revive interest in the buying public.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by PeterS »

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by PeterS »

One of the oddities of CTOs is the First WMK 1/- Green Kangaroo. Almost the entire production (initially 5,000 sets) was on Inverted WMK sheets. This makes Inverted WMK scarce in postally used and common in CTO. Upright WMK is just the reverse, scarce in CTO and common in postally used.

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by Global Administrator »

PeterS wrote:Here is an example of why it is, sometimes, good to have a CTO stamp that has been washed. Can you see why? :)

Image

Nice .. you should add this to the nearby "Tin Shed" flaw thread. :lol:

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by PeterS »

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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by PeterS »

Can't trick you Glen. :)

Yes, a quite nice (and extensive) example of the tin shed flaw. Gum has gotten onto the surface of the paper prior to printing. When it was washed the gum floated off, taking both printing and some of the postmark with it. A very late example of this type of flaw.

Actually, while we are at it we should delve a little more into this particular issue. The 3d OS overprint has an interesting antecedence. The Printer was asked for a supply of 3d stamps for official use.

The intention of the order was for them to be punctured OS. Overprints were in the process of being abandoned because of speculation and associated theft from Gov't. Departments.

Apparantly, the first the PO even knew of the overprint was when the stamps arrived at their separate destinations. It was considered an innocent error and no-one got the sack or anything. This stamp is common CTO but quite hard to find postally used.
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by PeterS »

Single WMK

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RodT
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Re: Australian Commonwealth Official CTO stamps discussion

Post by RodT »

1d KGV Engraved, Pale Red and Red shades

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Last edited by RodT on 11 Jul 2010 21:07, edited 1 time in total.
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