'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offices)

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by PaolofromRome »

manfaefife wrote:Would this one be a permanent cancel rather than a T.P.O. Kaduna Junction S.O. 3 Nigeria ?
Yes, it is the cancel of a normal fixed mail sorting office
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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by Postat4ever »

Great thread. Here in the "states" we do not technically have TPO's. They have been named MPO's (Mobile Post Offices) which are made of rail, truck, mule, whatever 'moves'. RPO's are rail post offices, HPO are truck/bus post offices, and the rest are MPO's. Anyway, nice to see some items I have never seen before. Thanks for sharing.
Bob :D

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by honza »

Ahoj everyone!

As a little boy, my enthusiasm alternated between stamp-collecting and train-spotting, so when I gave up the latter to concentrate on the former I retained a nostalgic interest in TPOs.

Here are four Austrian cards with TPO markings that I sold last week on eBay. Each aroused competitive bidding so I was pleasantly surprised.

1 Train No.420 from Petschau to Pladen with a Kosten arrival stamp from 1905

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2 A different type Train 191 from Lindau to Innsbruck in 1907

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3 Train 616 Tulln to Wien(Vienna) in 1906

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4 Train 612 Wolframs to Schwarzenau in 1905. This card reached the highest price of the four despite the corner crease.

Image

Cheers,

Honza

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by waroff49 »

I think that that is a Railway Office postmark. If it follows the Vic. (Aust) scenario, many of the early P.O.'s were at the railway station. especially in small communities.
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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by honza »

Ahoj again!

This cover interested me because of the lengthy inscription in the registration label.

It seems, on doing some googling, that Doar Na means mobile post office. Can anyone confirm that please?

If that is the case, are Ha-Galil and Ha-Elyon the beginning and end of the route?

There is a van in the postmark. Is that the sort of vehicle that is used on this TPO?

Image

And here is a close-up of the label:

Image

Thank you,

Honza

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by Sark »

My favourite TPO cover with three TPO postmarks on an envelope signed by Queen Victoria

Image

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by meisterstempel »

That is a sensational cover Sark.

Very nice indeed.


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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by waroff49 »

Excellent story behind the mourning cover.
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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by stulev1 »

PRC train mail cancel - not often seen

Image

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by estonia1991 »

A Finnish TPO cancel from 1895 on a card that I just purchased


Image


The cancel reads - 'H.FORS - St P.BURG Ф.П. BAГОНЪ No. 1 23 XII 95'

(Helsingfors (Helsinki) - St. Petersburg Finska Post Wagon No.1) the black dot below the date indicates that it was the night train.

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by ivqii »

Interesting article ( reprint from 1899 ) on how GB TPO's operated in Victorian/Edwardian times

http://www.philatelicdatabase.com/great-britain/great-britai ... ices-1894/
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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by norvic »

stulev1 wrote:PRC train mail cancel - not often seen

Image
How would one know that it is a train mail cancel? We may have seen many, but just not known what they were!
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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by myNBstamps »

Here is the link to the North Borneo mobile PO posting on my blog if members are interested:

http://www.mynorthborneostamps.blogspot.co.uk/search?updated ... date=false

regards

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by tonymacg »

norvic wrote:
stulev1 wrote:PRC train mail cancel - not often seen

Image
How would one know that it is a train mail cancel? We may have seen many, but just not known what they were!
The relevant characters are

Image

The Traditional characters were used until the mid-1950s, and usually in that or a similar font. The Simplified characters usually appear in that rather characterless font.

The four characters appear in the second line of the upper arc of the Chinese CDS. The top line is a town name - Tientsin/Tianjin in this case.
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Post by Machaggis52 »

jeremy29 wrote:Looks like you have a very rare cancellation there!

TPO No 6 NCR Way Circular Datestamps Recorded Usage 1/1/1913-1922

Type 2 DOWN 1 recorded example

Type 2 UP

Type 2 No direction 1 recorded example
In the UK the UP line was always to London, even from Glasgow and Edinburgh. :D
With kind regards, Jim

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by norvic »

tonymacg wrote:
norvic wrote:
stulev1 wrote:PRC train mail cancel - not often seen

Image
How would one know that it is a train mail cancel? We may have seen many, but just not known what they were!
The relevant characters are

Image

The Traditional characters were used until the mid-1950s, and usually in that or a similar font. The Simplified characters usually appear in that rather characterless font.

The four characters appear in the second line of the upper arc of the Chinese CDS. The top line is a town name - Tientsin/Tianjin in this case.
Many thanks, that's useful.
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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by myNBstamps »

Image

This train mail stamp is one of my favourites.

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by Micky »

Hi everyone, can someone help here? I believe I found a Victoria T.P.O 19 down, which could be a hard to get one. Can anyone confirm this :?: Looks to be dated 28 Oc 18.

Image

Thanks for looking
Micky

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by josto »

Hi!

While looking through my NSW stamps I found These which I think are travelling post offices. Has anyone any Information about Rating?

Image

Best wishes

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by bear0001 »

Didge
Once again thanks to Premier Postal Auctions : The tpo in question T.P.O N0.6 NORTH COAST RAILWAY ..PO 1/1/1913 Closed c.1921

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by bear0001 »

I found these in my collection ;I think they were issued via AUSPOST !
Image

Image

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by ewen s »

This is my only example of a TPO cancel;

Image

Any idea if it's scarce or not?

Cheers,

Ewen

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by dwhopper »

If you type victoria tpo into google the first web site that pops up is

www.stampsofvictoria.com

It identifies this cancellation as

T03-U4 (Uptrain)

The duplex was re-issued with dates seen from August 7, 1894 until November 17, 1898.

This is very common on loose stamps but scarce on cover.

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by ewen s »

Thanks, and that website looks like it would be a favourite for Victoria collectors.

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by Greg Ioannou »

Here's an oddity: A Nauru TPO cover.

Image

Image

An obviously philatelic cover, at least on the front.

The interesting part of the cover to me is the back, which has only a few of the markings you'd expect for an incoming registered cover. Presumably it arrived at Vancouver, then took the Vancouver to Calgary and then Calgary to Moose Jaw RPOs. That's three postmarks that should be on the back of the cover that aren't. From Moose Jaw it goes to Winnipeg (and gets the appropriate RPO, type WT 896). It then goes from Winnipeg to Fort William, and again isn't cancelled. It then goes on the Fort William to Toronto RPO (type ON-562). Finally it goes on the Toronto to Niagara Falls line and gets dropped off at Grimsby.

The cover apparently went on SIX RPOs, but unfortunately was only postmarked on two of the trains. (Of course, the two cancels it did get are the two most common. I'm guessing there's a reason some of the others are scarce.) It could have been such a fantastic cover if it had received all six cancels. It's still an interesting novelty.

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by tonymacg »

Something you don't see every day: a TPO Postage Due mark

Image

Image

and the detail of the Due mark:

Image

From the British Indian TPO running through Jaipur State. Either the sender put it in the wrong (Imperial rather than Jaipur State) box, or someone at the station put it in the wrong bag. Too bad: as it was, the recipient was charged double deficiency (2½ Annas) on the Imperial rate of 1¼ Annas. The Jaipur rate was correctly paid with the ½ Anna postal stationery envelope.
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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by Jack »

Thanks for the information and the Queensland link. This is one I just picked up last week. TPO No 2 S & W DOWN 16 AP 08

Image

Comments appreciated as this is not my area...

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by Rackrunner »

huanga wrote:Two stamps, Victoria and South Australia.
I believe in regard to the TPO#4 on the Victorian SG178c. The line ran from Melbourne to Bendigo.
I can find no information [Yet!] on the South Australia SG251. There is one brief mention on another post about the express railway p/mk, but it gives no information.

Image

Perhaps one of the Australian members of the board knows something about it?

Huanga.
As Huanga says, not much information available regarding the Express Railway
cancel but here are 2 different strikes I recently found.

Paul

Image

Image

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by dwhopper »

The reference you want is The Travelling Post Offices of South Australia, by A D Presgrave.

3 types of Express Railway cancellation, plus a roller cancel.

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by chippin »

There is a good thread elsewhere on Stampboards dealing with New Zealand TPOs:
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=38257
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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by honza »

Ahoj everyone!

Image

This is a 20c KGV Kenya, Uganda & Tanganyika stamp with a rather nice TPO postmark. DARESSALAAM-TABORA T.P.O. DOWN.

Cheers,

Honza

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by manfaefife »

Can I assume this "O.2. Nth WEST" is a TPO from NSW judging from reading page 1 of this thread ?
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Image
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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by Kainnikanada »

Donald,

Do a search on ebay. There are innumerable philatelic 'TPO' covers and the strikes are usually clear.

Rod
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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by rossi »

Hey Honza :D,

I'm sure some members from Israel will be of more help than me.

I try anyway to post some comments.
honza wrote:Ahoj again!

This cover interested me because of the lengthy inscription in the registration label.

It seems, on doing some googling, that Doar Na means mobile post office. Can anyone confirm that please?

If that is the case, are Ha-Galil and Ha-Elyon the beginning and end of the route?

There is a van in the postmark. Is that the sort of vehicle that is used on this TPO?

Image

And here is a close-up of the label:

Image

Thank you,

Honza
About the rate.
The currency at that time was the Israeli Lira, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_lira.

According to Bale Israel Postal History catalogue:

The registered fee was 0.70IL from 1 July 1971 up to 10 February 1973, then it increased to 0.80IL.

The letter rate to Europe was 0.55IL on 1971 and 0.65 on 1972 and 1973, the catalogue specifies only the year.

The 0.55 stamp was issued on January 1972.
The 0.15 stamp was issued on August 1972.

From the stamps used the postage rate seems 0.70IL (Registered fee) + 0.55IL (letter rate to Europe).

Now about the Registered label.

On the left you see a R for Registered and on the right you see the Hebrew letter Resh meaning רשום (ie Registered).

Image
I underlined with different colors the Hebrew words and their transliteration in Latin letters.

Doar Na, yes it seems to mean movable post office.

Ha-Galil Ha-Elyon means Upper Galilee.

On ebay I've found this:
Image
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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by honza »

Ahoj rossi!

Very helpful information as always.

Thank you.

Cheers,

Honza

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by camelspotter »

I posted the image in the Roo flaws thread and Micky suggested the TPO cancel may be an interesting one (T.P.O CAIRNS RLY / 28 OC 13)

Image

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by traralgon3844 »

I was up at Junee (NSW) recently and we made a quick visit to the Round House Rail Museum there.

The historical society has a restored 1912 - 14 TPO Mail Van there. The pictures below will give you an idea of how they worked.
Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by Gordon »

When I was secretary of a railway society at Dubbo in the 1980's I bought a TPO - KP 845. It arrived the day after coming out of service on the South Mail and still had all the forms, dockets etc. When the society collapsed the local Police Boys club bought it for storage.

The TPO's were withdrawn because the railway staff kept going on strike, making the mail service unreliable and forcing Australia Post to invest in a fleet of trucks as a replacement.

It would have not been easy work for the sorters, even after they put in gas heating, but it meant that we in our little village of Wongarbon, just out of Dubbo, received our mail before the people of Dubbo, because our local PO had it ready sorted at 9 o'clock.

Prior to the KP there was the HKL, of which there is one preserved at the Rail Transport Museum at Thirlmere, south of Sydney. This was much smaller, as it was a combination of passenger carriage (dogbox style), TPO and guard's van with parcel accommodation. At least it didn't have a coffin slot like later guard's vans had!

The interstate trains between Sydney and Brisbane and Sydney and Melbourne also had the KB bulk mail vans, which only transported the mail and did not have any sorters.

Every guard's van had a letter slot; even the humble 40' rail motors carried a letter box hanging on the front, for people to post their mail. It saved a trip into town before the PO closed - if you had one. Letters had to be stamped but otherwise were handled in the normal way, with the guard delivering them to the Railway Post Office - now the Youth Hostel adjacent to Central Station.

Who can remember those long caterpillars of trollies bearing mailbags being towed along the concourse to the platforms at Central Station each evening for the mail trains, departing about 10 pm.

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by Philanthropist »

I can remember them in Melbourne,
with Shipping Mail etc building just opposite the Spencer Street Railway station ( now Southern Cross ) and there was an early vending machine there, but that was before my time.

Sometimes you see an additional "Late FEE" extra postage rate from back in those days.

Regards

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by Micky »

Hi all, found this one in my recent lot of KGV's.

Image

Micky

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by Gordon »

Mickey, TPO 1 WEST was the Western Mail, departing Sydney Central at 9.55 pm every night except Sunday, conveying sitting cars, sleeping cars and a TPO from Sydney to Dubbo. At Orange the sitting and sleeping cars for Forbes were detached to form the Forbes Mail. It arrived at Dubbo at 7 am, connecting with the Far West Express to Bourke (Mon, Wed, Fri) or Cobar Express (Tue, Thu, Sat). Mail was transhipped at Orange for Parkes and Forbes, and Dubbo for Bourke and Cobar. The platforms were very busy with this transhipment.

I lived in a small village called Wongarbon, the last stop before Dubbo, and we would get our mail before the people of Dubbo thanks to the TPO. Sadly the station closed in 1975 and the TPO in 1985.

My first trip on the Western Mail was in 1962 when it was still steam-hauled, usually with a C36 class locomotive but sometimes a C38. A C32 would continue on to Bourke or Cobar, with a C30T from Byrock to Brewarrina.

Such fun!

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by DL20K »

Something different, a cut-out with a TPO postmark from Poland, dated September 3, 1948.

Image link inactive. Removed

Different because Polish TPO postmarks usually weren't of this shape. The variety of types is (at least before WWII) rather substantial, but the vast majority were round.

The route is Kostrzyn nad Odrą (Kuestrin) to Piła (Schneidemuehl) - part of what less than four years earlier would be called the Ostbahn, linking Berlin and Koenigsberg in East Prussia.

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by Greg Ioannou »

DL20K wrote:Something different, a cut-out with a TPO postmark from Poland, dated September 3, 1948.

Image link inactive. Removed

Different because Polish TPO postmarks usually weren't of this shape. The variety of types is (at least before WWII) rather substantial, but the vast majority were round.
What a gem! Thanks for sharing.

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by DL20K »

Greg Ioannou wrote: What a gem! Thanks for sharing.
I'm glad you liked it!


Here's an article regarding Polish TPOs written in 2003.

The original text in Polish can be found here.
At the moment of writing, the images which go with the text are still avaliable at the website linked above. The photos show the carriage itself, while the scans present both the commemorative as well as the normal postmarks (which I suspect were manufactured in the 1990s based on the style of the lettering).

A translation attempt:

The last run of TPO 302.

The [Polish] Post has recently thoroughly modernized its transport infrastructure, which is mainly related to the introduction of the priority letter and parcel services. Unfortunately, this means the end of the TPOs' operation.

The Author [of this article] had the opportunity to "say goodbye" to the TPO 302, on its last run from Katowice to Gdynia and back on November 28 [2003]. Some time* before its departure, the car was already waiting by the baggage platform.

There, the postal cargo was put inside. One could see the empty pigeonholes.

This is related mostly to the fact that nowadays the letters are sorted exclusively at the sorting centres, it's no longer done en route. The carried mail was gathered in the next compartment.

Cargo exchange also occured at the stations on the way.

To commemorate the last run, the Katowice 2 post office used a commemorative postmark. A postcard and an envelope were also issued. A philatelic stand was organized in the hall of the post office. Some mail cancelled with the commemorative postmark was carried by the TPO what was then confirmed by placing the TPO's postmark on it.

The last run of the TPO was also the last chance of using the TPO's Registered letter stamp. The Author [of this article] posted three registered letters (number 1, 2, and 3), another three were posted by the Author of the photos.

On Saturday, November 29 [2003], the TPO was returning from Gdynia to Katowice - obviously, the second postmark was used for this direction.

The 302 TPO wasn't the only one withdrawn in recent weeks. Other postal carriages met the same fate (at the moment there are only a few** TPOs still in use). A philatelic insufficiency remains - why weren't special events organized when other TPO's had their last run?

* the Polish phrase used in the text literally means between 30 and 90.
** the Polish phrase used in the text literally means 5 or fewer.


That said... this particular TPO did make a comeback. The carriage was repainted, the timetable changed, and the Katowice-Gdynia TPO resumed operation on May 30, 2004.

Source (message apparently posted by the Author of the photos from the linked article).

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DL20K
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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by DL20K »

Polish TPO's continued:

Here's a photo of a TPO in Szczecin.

The caption reads:

29.05.2011. Junction Post [Szczecin-]Dziewoklicz. EU07-068 [a Polish electric locomotive] crosses the Odra brige with the TLK38511 train en route from Przemyśl to Świnoujście. TPO 930 right behind the locomotive. As it turned out, this was the TPO's last run from Kraków Płaszów to Szczecin Główny, ending the era of transporting mail in TPOs.

TPOs were to continue using the "Przemyślanin" train until the end of May, but the last runs took place during the weekend of 28/29 May, three days earlier.


The sparse bits of information I managed to find seem to confirm that this was the exact time when the Polish Post stopped using the rail network to transport mail altogether as the contract between them and the rail carrier was terminated.

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DL20K
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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by DL20K »

Here's a Latvian TPO postmark from the Riga - Tukums route ("un otradi" meaning "and return").

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Note how each digit seems to have a different style. I suppose they were replaced at different times.

The full postcard, addressed to the National Statistics Bureau in Riga. The line in the top left corner reads "public authority mail", probably explaining the lack of any franking or postage due markings.

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The back is rather interesting as well, as the current (as of 1931) prices of various goods such as meat, grain, potatoes, milk, sugar, eggs etc., are listed.

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clemo
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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by clemo »

Would appreciate information on TPO 2 NORTH, DOWN, GANG 3...

(on an 8/13-8/14 pair)

Image

Thanks

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Kainnikanada
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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by Kainnikanada »

clemo wrote:Would appreciate information on TPO 2 NORTH, DOWN, GANG 3...

(on an 8/13-8/14 pair)

Image

Thanks
clemo,

I don't have Peck's updated 2000 version of his NSW TPO monograph so this could be an outdated reply.

Page 3.11 of his book notes a 'sec. no.': "2N9", 'no': "98", 'type' N', "TPO 2 North 3 code right of date" used between 25FE25 and MY39".

Your date kind of precedes the first date by a country mile. I'll make a manual note in my copy of his 1984 2nd impression version.

Check in later when I post scans of his monograph in Stampboards' wiki - will be on page 3.15.

Rod
Last edited by Kainnikanada on 12 May 2015 13:11, edited 1 time in total.
Looking for NSW cut-down relief date stamps, as seen in my avatar, to add to my collection.

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by Kainnikanada »

Micky wrote:Hi all, found this one in my recent lot of KGV's.

Image

Micky
Micky,

I'm working on this one. Not quite sure which one since the pattern for the central figure '3' does not conform to any Peck lists
and it seems to be an early one by about three years.

Check in later when I post scans of his monograph in Stampboards' wiki - will be on page 3.15.

Rod
Looking for NSW cut-down relief date stamps, as seen in my avatar, to add to my collection.

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Re: 'TPO' Cancels scans and discussion (Travelling Post Offi

Post by Micky »

A part cancel with reversed 4, looks like a new early date Oc 30.

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Micky

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