The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted together

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The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted together

Post by julesjelev »

Received a letter from Italy today which made me stare at it in disbelief.

Never thought a person would do something so blatantly illegal and take a change on commercial mail with it.

All stamps on the envelope below are assembled halves based on the formula - 2used=1mint

The half of one of the stamps fell off along the way. I guess it couldn't stand it any more. :lol:

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man

Post by Global Administrator »

So Lira stamps are STILL valid? I am surprised at that.

Half stamps butted up together have been an issue since 1840. :)
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Re: The Half-Stamp Man

Post by Tassie_Stamps »

I hope this thread doesn't give anyone ideas. :lol:

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man

Post by julesjelev »

Global Administrator wrote: Half stamps butted up together have been an issue since 1840. :)
This is the first time I see something like that, unless my memory fails me.

Considering I paid $4.50 shipping on this simple 30-50g letter, it came as a slap in the face. :?

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man

Post by Global Administrator »

Well if YOU were charged the shipping, mail it to Italy Post fraud dept and leave negative feedback for seller.

Double whammy then for this idiot.
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Re: The Half-Stamp Man

Post by julesjelev »

Global Administrator wrote:Well if YOU were charged the shipping, mail it to Italy Post fraud dept and leave negative feedback for seller.

Double whammy then for this idiot.
The stamps were not cancelled, and given the fact this is something extremely bold, I would bet, this seller has a contact somewhere in the Italian posts.

Better not pull his tail, the arms of the Italian mafia are far reaching. :lol:

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man - mail to me with stamps butted toget

Post by Global Administrator »

julesjelev wrote:

Never thought a person would do something so blatantly illegal
So you state and realise it is illegal, and you accept you were ripped off by this crook, and you are going to do nothing about it?

If the world worked like that, anarchy would reign supreme. Canada would be like Nigeria.

Name the seller and lot number and he/she will get google matched here to this thread in a day. :idea:

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man - mail to me with stamps butted toget

Post by john6625 »

Fully agree, negative feedback, ask for your postage to be refunded and name and shame the seller here for all to see. :twisted:
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Re: The Half-Stamp Man - mail to me with stamps butted toget

Post by julesjelev »

Global Administrator wrote: So you state and realise it is illegal, and you accept you were ripped off by this crook, and you are going to do nothing about it?
I'm just getting a little tired of fighting little fights and I've had real fights. Some I won, some I lost, but I know there are much bigger crooks out there.

This guy sold 7-8 sets of stamps to me. All stamps were fine. There is not much I can say. I did not expect to receive a very exciting cover from Italy anyways. Just that little bug, that paying $4.50 for stamps cut in half and glued together is not right.

On the bright side of it, if he spent the $4.50 on some beautiful new set of stamps and mailed the letter registered, Canada Post was going to destroy it and piss me off much more! :lol:

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man - mail to me with stamps butted toget

Post by Global Administrator »

julesjelev wrote:
I'm just getting a little tired of fighting little fights and I've had real fights. Some I won, some I lost
But not 'too tired' to start the thread here moaning about it here. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Nigeria just moved a little closer to your backyard, and you have only yourself to blame.

So it leads to the obvious question - if a CANADIAN seller mailed you this with butted up re-used stamps, you'd idly stand by too watching your own Government (as well as yourself) being defrauded we can assume?

(Assuming of course you do not also feel the Mafia has also taken over Canada Post.)

And if the answer to that is "YES" as it surely must be, unless you are a hypocrite, would you also stand by silently and keep on walking, and watch a bag snatcher rip a handbag off an old lady, or rip her gold ear rings out of her ear lobes?

'Petty Crime is crime, and it is none of my business' right, and none of it bothers the likes of you we can deduce?

Nigeria has arrived, it really has, if everyone thought like you. Sad. :idea:

Glen

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man - mail to me with stamps butted toget

Post by julesjelev »

Global Administrator wrote:
julesjelev wrote:
Nigeria has arrived, it really has, if everyone thought like you. Sad. :idea:
You can read this as a starter:

http://www.kamloopsthisweek.com/agency-audit-victoria-told-about-metis-finances-in-2012/

If you want to read the whole stinky story of this governemnet funded agency type in "Metis Commission" and you will get at least 5 articles.

The crook I fought is still there getting her $150,000+/year. But she is there because those around her are not any different. Canada IS already much closer to Nigeria than you think.

And yes, I did get a defective stamp from a Canadain seller this week. I can write about it in a little while.

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by trippese »

All Italian stamps from 1967 until today are valid to use. Only "Italia Turrita" from that years is not valid.

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by aethelwulf »

I had an eBay purchase like this from France once...some nice high-face airmails on the cover...then I noticed a slit in the middle of every stamp where they were pasted together, except the most cheapie-cheap one.

Someone has too much time on their hands if they think its profitable to sit and carefully cut stamps in the right place that they can be joined up.

Don't line up the cut stamps right, and you might get this

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by Global Administrator »

trippese wrote:
All Italian stamps from 1967 until today are valid to use. Only "Italia Turrita" from that years is not valid.
Interesting.

So how many Lira do they count as 1 Euro?

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by ewen s »

I would keep that cover and not complain - I think it is interesting and a study on what is let through.

Just one man's view :)

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by trippese »

1 Euro is 1936,27 Lira . But in this time in Italy with posta can happen everything . I know a lot of people send all kind of strange cover with Lire , Euro , Pacchi stamps to remember this strange period . I was a postman and the Posta situation was not good , sending letters has decreased considerably and increased the duties of the postmen, They work badly and does not care what goes in his hands .

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by julesjelev »

trippese wrote:They work badly and does not care what goes in his hands .
If they do not care their money will be getting less and less and they will have to work even harder.

ewen, this is exactly how I look at it. I will keep the cover and although I would never spend money on something like this, I may be able to convince someone that it is worth the postage. :D

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by trippese »

It is still considered a government job , it is very hard to lose this job also working badly. :?

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by aethelwulf »

trippese wrote:1 Euro is 1936,27 Lira.
At least you weren't overcharged for postage...that works out to about 3.75 EUR. Of course, saying you weren't overcharged for postage assumes the seller had actually used stamps he bought at the post office, or slightly below face in the philatelic market, rather than recycled used... :roll:
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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by rehautala »

For what it's worth, I have to say that I am with Glen on this one. Yes, it may seem like a small battle, but these small things often hide larger corruption.

Also, it is the principal at work here. The seller deliberately defrauded his government and sent you a letter franked with used stamps. You realize this, but do nothing.

Even if the stamps he sent were fine in your opinion, who is to say he won't rip someone else off in the future? Hence a warranted negative/warning to others.

His ethical standards are obviously not exactly set high.

Everyone needs to stand up to fraud and criminal activity, even as "small as this". If we get tired of these battles, what will we eventually be willing to accept?

It does not take a lot of effort to mail that to Italy's postal fraud division, and even less effort to leave a negative.

I have seen people turn away from "small" injustices too many times to be very objective about this.

You would even be doing him a favour by making him rethink his ways. My opinion.

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by new12collector »

Here is a somewhat similar cover that I received recently.

The stamps are not reused, but the letter is severely underpaid.

The stamps were issued before the currency reform, meaning that the actual values are 1:1000 of the values printed.

So, if it cost 12.30 to send this packet then the postage actually paid would be 0.00123 - quite a significant difference.

What should one do about this sort of thing?

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by jrobb »

Wow I've never seen used stamps cut up and used like that. The lengths some people go to.

Here in the UK it seems some people are too lazy and cheap to even bother "butting" stamps like that. I've received not one but two domestic letters since December which had no postage whatsoever attached (and no trace of postage ever having been attached either).

The first letter I thought a bit odd, but I wasn't home when it was delivered so I'm unsure if it was actually delivered in the mail or someone dropped it off by hand (it originated within Edinburgh).

The second letter was from southern England and contained some cheap QV spacefillers I'd picked up on ebay - it definitely did come through the mail as the postman handed it to me personally.

The seller did offer free shipping, but I wasn't expecting that precise method...
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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by Old Yeti »

Here in the UK it seems some people are too lazy and cheap to even bother "butting" stamps like that.
Australia as well:

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Re-use is rampant everywhere when the authorities don't care to police it.

:(
Focus on the positive

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by julesjelev »

aethelwulf wrote:
trippese wrote:1 Euro is 1936,27 Lira.
At least you weren't overcharged for postage...that works out to about 3.75 EUR. Of course, saying you weren't overcharged for postage assumes the seller had actually used stamps he bought at the post office, or slightly below face in the philatelic market, rather than recycled used... :roll:
This was my reason for giving him 1 out 5 stars for "How reasonable the shipping charges were" question.

I can definitely go both ways, fight this small fight or leave it the way its is and I can argue both ways. So I understand where everyone is coming from.

My "tiredness" comes from the fact that the battle I illustrated to you above brought me about $22,000 or so, but it changed absolutely nothing!

Then after that one, I fought a second similar battle, where I was not even allowed to get to the battlefield. The crooks got away as the Canadian legal system proved completely impotent to deal with them.

If I were to start battles over $2 of stamps, by now I would have had at least 12 people killed, under my belt for what they did to me.

Calm down and look at the bigger picture. :D

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by rehautala »

It was a good point to bring up and discuss, and we certainly need to keep things in perspective. I read the article you linked and I feel your frustration.

I have had dealings with the Canadian "legal" system, and I can totally agree it is not necessarily a "justice" system.

Still, we can't give up even then, I believe right will win in the end, one way or the other.

"Pick your battles" is excellent advice though, because none of us can do it all.

This blatant re-use of stamps struck a nerve with me however.

I see so many "uncancelled stamps" lots being sold these days on Ebay and elsewhere, when both buyer and seller know that the stamps have likely already served their purpose and re-using them is illegal (albeit impossible to prove they actually served postal duty - maybe they didn't... :roll: ).

Honesty in this hobby is one of the things that attracted me to it, so it bothers me to see these things happen; it just saddens me somehow.

Ok, off the soapbox.
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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by julesjelev »

Here is another story from this past week's shopping.... :D

I came across this lot:

Image

Do you see any damaged stamps?
I could not find one and decided to rely on the sellers description.
Then I received the stamps and this is what I found:

Image

I contacted the seller and asked for a replacement stamp. The reply was "Send the item back for a refund."

Yeah, but then I am losing my 1.45 paid for shipping and an additional 63c+ for my shipping.

So I replied that I would just want to get a partial reimbursement for the amount this stamp represents in the lot. It equated to 17% based on that on-line catalog.

But no, the seller replied with "I would RATHER have the item back and give you a refund....."

Now this kind of got me upset and I could have quickly resolved the issue by leaving my feedback, but I decided to e-mail back. I got my partial refund and never left any feedback.

The reason I went to the length of asking for a refund was that the actual item I purchased was damaged. There can be no explanation how the seller can take the stamps off that album page to ship them without noticing the defective stamp. I do not want to speculate that maybe the defective stamp was the reason to have these stamps shown over white background.
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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by Global Administrator »

Cannot believe anyone is too lazy to spend 5 seconds and leave a visible negative on ebay for such rip-off treatment ro WARN OTHERS.

As they say it takes all types.

Gawd help the little old ladies in your community, if that is your moral compass on right and wrong, and total lack of interest in stopping it occurring again. :roll: :roll:

The Germans were strict on this circa 1900.

The strict rules were ALL the KAISER YACHT super high values got cancelled on BOTH left and right sides to stop this 'butting up' happening.

Even in Colonies 10,000 miles away from Germany. As you can see.
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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by The Pom »

Another trick I was on the receiving end of on a couple of occasions:

Re-use cancelled stamps, but put them on the envelope overlapping each other, so that the cancels were simply covered up.......
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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by Tassie_Stamps »

I received a philatelic publication from a stampboards member and Australian dealer a few weeks ago.

To "pay" postage, he simply glued some used 1990's stamps onto the envelope. :|

Pathetic.

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by Norbert Jenkins »

Tassie_Stamps wrote:I received a philatelic publication from a stampboards member and Australian dealer a few weeks ago.

To "pay" postage, he simply glued some used 1990's stamps onto the envelope. :|

Pathetic.
Please name and shame!

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by ozstamps »

Tassie_Stamps wrote:I received a philatelic publication from a stampboards member and Australian dealer a few weeks ago.

To "pay" postage, he simply glued some used 1990's stamps onto the envelope. :|

Pathetic.
Whomever his postmaster is, he risks losing his licence if he does that. :idea:

If he is a LPO, that can be a million dollar loss.
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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by Norbert Jenkins »

ozstamps wrote:
Tassie_Stamps wrote:I received a philatelic publication from a stampboards member and Australian dealer a few weeks ago.

To "pay" postage, he simply glued some used 1990's stamps onto the envelope. :|

Pathetic.
Whomever his postmaster is, he risks losing his licence if he does that. :idea:

If he is a LPO, that can be a million dollar loss.
I don't understand this comment. What control does a postmaster have over what someone decides to put into a postbox?

If I decided to put used stamps on an envelope and drop them into the postal system, I don't think any local post office(s) / post master(s) could be held accountable.

I must be missing something or misunderstanding. Please clarify :-)

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by The Pom »

That post lost me as well.
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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by ozstamps »

Norbert Jenkins wrote: What control does a postmaster have over what someone decides to put into a postbox?
Who said it was placed in a postbox? Certainly no-one on this thread.

I've seen dealers and auctions here lodge parcels over PO counters (as must be done here now) with SPECIMEN stamps affixed, NORFOLK stamps affixed, and all sorts of other illegal stuff affixed.

I REPEAT for the bleeding hearts who have absolutely no idea of the Australia postal system it seems - their PO can lose their licence for such stuff. A licence often worth a million plus.

Glen

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by Norbert Jenkins »

ozstamps wrote:
Norbert Jenkins wrote: What control does a postmaster have over what someone decides to put into a postbox?
Who said it was placed in a postbox? Certainly no-one on this thread.
Indeed not. Mind you, nobody said it was handed over to a postmaster either. In fact, the whole comment was cryptic and appeared to be half-formed at best, hence mine (and others) being unable to follow.

I wasn't aware that the item in question was a package (I don't see that anywhere in this thread either), nor did I know that in Australia, the postmaster must take such items over the counter. In fact, as Tassie_Stamps specifically mentioned that the 1990's used stamps were on an envelope, I jumped to the wild conclusion that he wasn't talking about a package.

I'm sure that it is true that a postmaster allowing items to enter the mail system without valid payment being made is likely to be in breach of some rule and so subject to possible sanction. Now we've had a bit more background, I'm able to see what this has to do with what the original poster said.

So, who is this stampboards member and dealer? I'd have hoped that members of our community would know better than to act like this and as a 'professional' dealer, it is outrageous. I'd not want to deal with this person, so please add the name up here, so that I and others can decide if we want to deal with them in future.

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by The Pom »

As Tassie said:

It was an envelope.

It was franked with used stamps.

Regardless of any other factors, the chances of the sender taking such a mail item to a Post Office and handing it over to the Postmaster are remote to say the least.

Glen is quite correct to say that a Postmaster accepting such an item could end up in trouble, but in this instance there is no theoretical or practical reason to suspect that this might have happened, so I'm not sure why the topic was raised.
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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by Global Administrator »

The Pom wrote:
It was an envelope.
I mail envelopes every week that weigh over 500g and are hence a "parcel" according to AP. They very often are over 1Kg.

They MUST be lodged over a counter to get a tracking label.

For the 3rd time, the OP has not noted the size or weight, so all the waffle above is totally hot air, based on pointless supposition - not facts.

And many are losing track of the FACTS - someone in Italy is using glued together HALF stamps for postage that ebay buyers pay heavily for.

Sadly he did not get an ebay neg for that THEFT to warn others, and sadly Italy Post were not advised as it was "too hard" for buyer to do. What a word of sloppy standards we live in.

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by The Pom »

Global Administrator wrote:
For the 3rd time, the OP has not noted the size or weight, so all the waffle above is totally hot air, based on pointless supposition - not facts.
So maybe you should have asked Tassie to clarify size & weight and therefore the likely route of posting before introducing the Postmaster and any crimes he might have potentially committed into the conversational arena - after all, that would be hot air, based on pointless supposition. :wink:
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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by BrieffiesWF »

A similar topic was discussed here one year ago:

http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=45956&start=50

In the Netherlands it is legal to 'reuse' a stamp, which isn't cancelled. I was approached by a PostNL clerk and she said that PostNL has the duty to postmark the stamp. If this hasn't been done, the postman should mark the stamp with an ugly marker/pen. Otherwise it could be reused, as PostNL has failed to accomplish one of their most important tasks.
Happily, they letters I receive bear in most cases a proper postmark, but with the old stamping machines 3/4 of incoming Dutch mail was cancelled (this was about 2 years ago).

Ethically, the reuse of stamps would be wrong, but as we are chary and sober Dutch a 'clean' stamp is cut from the envelope and stored :mrgreen:
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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by Tassie_Stamps »

1. It was an Australia Post large size letter bearing $1.80 face of previously used stamps.

2. I have no idea if it was lodged in a box or over a counter. It did not have any second postmark on it. Sent from Victoria.

3. If you want to know who it was email me and I'll tell you. I'm not posting here because people who love the guy will disagree with me and defend him.

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by amprantino »

In the worst case scenario the envelope will be returned to the sender marked as "stamps missing".

A lot of people sent envelopes without stamps or obviously missing stamps:

they put their name as receivers and the expected receiver address as sender!

The envelope will be returned to the envelope sender address, which is actually the real receiver address! Being a smartass...

I dont encourage the above but I dont think that anyone will go to jail for missing stamps!

I think that is responsibility of the post office to check the envelopes and verify that the correct stamps are used.

If they estimated that the salary of an employee is more than the loss, ok.... Or probably the post office check 10 every 200 envelopes.

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by julesjelev »

amprantino wrote: The envelope will be returned to the envelope sender address, which is actually the real receiver address! Being a smartass...
What will happen in this case if the postal authorities decide to fine the sender?
And who would a person want to send mail to in this way? His grandma?

Must be pretty damn embarrassing showing the world what one is worth like that.

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by ivqii »

julesjelev wrote:
amprantino wrote: The envelope will be returned to the envelope sender address, which is actually the real receiver address! Being a smartass...
What will happen in this case if the postal authorities decide to fine the sender?
And who would a person want to send mail to in this way? His grandma?

Must be pretty damn embarrassing showing the world what one is worth like that.
So why don't you identify this seller then?
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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by julesjelev »

ivqii wrote:
So why don't you identify this seller then?
Just imagine how much effort he has put into cutting those stamps and alining them on the cover after first soaking them and sorting them and figuring out which ones he ca use and how.

Then think of the risk he is taking and how his heart must be pounding if the cover will be returned to him by the "carabineri" (was this the right word?) in addition to a pair of handcuffs.

I would leave him alone and let him have his fun in life.
Last edited by julesjelev on 17 Feb 2014 05:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by amprantino »

julesjelev wrote:
amprantino wrote: The envelope will be returned to the envelope sender address, which is actually the real receiver address! Being a smartass...
What will happen in this case if the postal authorities decide to fine the sender?
And who would a person want to send mail to in this way? His grandma?

Must be pretty damn embarrassing showing the world what one is worth like that.
- You have to do it in a smart way or dont do it!
You will not sent 100 envelopes in one day, probably the smartass ship rarely!

- If you send two envelopes per month to your grandma for free is not bad :mrgreen: If it worth the risk, its an other story.

- I dont know if post authorities can claim a fine for such things. Especially they can't claim a fine for a mistake that an old lady did. :mrgreen:

And btw, when you pay for shipping on ebay, you pay postage fee+handling+gas+time+....
So this doesnt mean that you will order the stamps you would like to have in your collection! Its a "nice to have" gift but not a requirement!
(Seller may use a prepaid envelope, so you get no stamps!)

* To focus on the problem again, "the problem" is that he used a service (post) without paying. Who has the right and obligation to control it ?

* Are you going to call the police if you see a parked car that didnt pay the parking fee?

* Are you going to call the police, if a dog poo on the pavement ?
Last edited by amprantino on 17 Feb 2014 05:18, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by julesjelev »

amprantino wrote: - You have to do it in a smart way or dont do it!
Then he must be incredibly smart to pick probably the only person who would not report him. :mrgreen:

P.S. I am actually sure that someone here would have figured out who the seller was. It is not difficult to find it out at all.

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by amprantino »

julesjelev wrote:
amprantino wrote: - You have to do it in a smart way or dont do it!
Then he must be incredibly smart to pick probably the only person who would not report him. :mrgreen:
Or incredibly lucky :mrgreen:
But it was a nice opportunity, Global Administrator , to show us that this was happening also aroud 1900. Its not a new trick

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by julesjelev »

An idea came through my head (something I am not doing but it is fun to consider )

Imagine putting this cover back on Ebay with the proper description......
Wouldn't the Italian authorities put a sizable bid on it to be able to take a look at the back side? :lol:

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Re: The Half-Stamp Man: letter to me with stamps butted toge

Post by new12collector »

julesjelev wrote:
amprantino wrote: - You have to do it in a smart way or dont do it!
Then he must be incredibly smart to pick probably the only person who would not report him. :mrgreen:

P.S. I am actually sure that someone here would have figured out who the seller was. It is not difficult to find it out at all.
Would this be him?

http://www.ebay.com/usr/antonraf52

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