South Australia: "Squared Circle" Stamp Postmarks discussion

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Diver Pete
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Post by Diver Pete »

sherro wrote:I've just caught up with this thread. Fasacinating stuff. I have almost zero States material, so I can't make a contribution, but a gread read. You guys know lots of stuff!!

I concurr with Sherro :!:

This is a fascinating thread with some incredibly diligent/observant people.

Looks like I will be digging through those old state collections for quite a while! :shock:

Looking forward to the future publication :)
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Post by josto »

Hi!

Nice thread about those SA Squared Circle stamps! Which would be the best lterature about those? If possible also with ratings? I`ve got a quite big range of South Australia stamps and a few KGV and roo stamps with squared circle postmarks and I`d like to know the rating of the cancels! I don`t know if it would help to show the big amount of stamps here on pictures!?

Greetings

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SA postmark book

Post by GraniteSA »

Hi

Postmark book on SA & NT section A to G including Adelaide tentative schedule for release Oct. H to R next Jun then the remainder.
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Post by Greg Ioannou »

Wonderful news, Neville.

All postmarks, or just the squared circles?

Greg

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Post by clemo »

If anyone is interested ebay item number 380031761971 is a 2½d Roo on envelope, with Payneham squared circle postmark.

Clemo

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Post by josto »

Hi!

I found thid 1d red with a squared circle postmark. Can anyone help me with the townsname and eventually the rarity? Unfortunately the condition of the stamp is not very good.

Image

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Post by josto »

Hi!

I found this stamp with a squared circle postmark. Looking through the rating page of Greg maybe this one could be a scarcer one? Hope to hear from you all!? I think it must be Beetaloo. If so, would you still collect this although the stamp has been bleached out?

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Post by admin »

clemo wrote:If anyone is interested ebay item number 380031761971 is a 2½d Roo on envelope, with Payneham squared circle postmark.

Clemo
Folks, for the 100th time please add LINKS not ebay lot numbers. :twisted:

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Post by josto »

Hmm, I missed it too!!

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Post by admin »

josto wrote:Hi!

I found thid 1d red with a squared circle postmark. Can anyone help me with the townsname and eventually the rarity?

Unfortunately the condition of the stamp is not very good.

Image

Greetings
Manunda?

.

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Post by josto »

This would have been also my guess! But I`m not sure!

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Post by josto »

josto wrote:Hi!

I found this stamp with a squared circle postmark. Looking through the rating page of Greg maybe this one could be a scarcer one? Hope to hear from you all!? I think it must be Beetaloo. If so, would you still collect this although the stamp has been bleached out?

Image

Greetings
Could it be a scarcer one from Beetaloo?

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Post by Greg Ioannou »

Yes, it is Beetaloo and it is very rare.

I haven't figured out the other one yet. Still working on it.

Greg

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Post by GlenStephens »

That stain is weird .. like a weak acid or bleach or something on the paper?
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Post by josto »

admin wrote:
josto wrote:Hi!

I found thid 1d red with a squared circle postmark. Can anyone help me with the townsname and eventually the rarity?

Unfortunately the condition of the stamp is not very good.

Image

Greetings
Manunda?

.
But when you look at the left cancel there is something else! And I think that when you take only Manunda there is to much space left! I think there is an additional word.

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Post by Greg Ioannou »

I think they are two different postmarks. But I can't make out what either one is. Still working on it.

Greg

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Post by Greg Ioannou »

Hmmm -- I still have no solution for Josto's puzzle!

I'm back to playing with squared circles again, and hit problems on the second town I tackled: Laura. My problem is that the last known date of the Type 3 postmark is 1923 (or 24, but let's leave that for now), yet the earliest known of that same postmark with the corners removed is supposed to be 1919.

So what's going on there? Two cancellers, or one of those dates wrong? For what it is worth, I don't have a type 3 dated after 1919. My earliest corners removed is 1922.

When I try to look at details of the postmark, I think I see a wide R -- narrow R variation, but it is subtle bordering on imaginary.

Here's a scan with some of my better late-date strikes. The two seems to have traces of a second inner ring after the town name. The middle two may or may not be wide/narrow R. The last two are my only "corners removed" strikes.

Image

Ideas?

Greg
Last edited by Greg Ioannou on 19 Dec 2008 16:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Greg Ioannou »

OK, Josto's puzzle is Cormandel Valley. That was tough!

Greg

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Post by Kev »

Greg Ioannou wrote:OK, Josto's puzzle is Cormandel Valley. That was tough!

Greg
G'day Greg,
Do you you mean Coromandel Valley? There is no Cormandel Valley in my current Postcde directory unless it closed down, so I guess just a typo - many of us make them.
Cheers, Kev.

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Post by Greg Ioannou »

Just a typo -- oops!

Greg

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Post by Greg Ioannou »

While I'm in the L's, the date on this Larg's Bay cancel made me smile:

Image

Greg

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Post by Greg Ioannou »

I'm back to my Lauras again, and looking at the bottom pair in that scan -- the two corners removed ones. I just thought to compare those to each other, and the Rs in each look different. I feel like I'm trying to solve a Rubik's Cube with these things!

Does anyone have comparison copies? Neville, where are you?

(By the way, Neville, I task it the book that was coming out in October didn't?)

I also looked more closely at the Larg's Bay postmark, and noticed that the 1d roo it is on has a bashed lower right corner. Glen said in another thread that there is a volume of ACSC in the works on postal stationery. I wonder if it will list varieties like that. I hope so, tho the KGV ones seem as complex as the stamps, complete with Die 2s and everything.

Greg

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Laura

Post by GraniteSA »

Greetings

I will have to study the Rrrr's.
Change over date is 1919.
Re- Book - Waiting on DP to invite me around to rummage through his collection. :P
Will be after Chrissy now.
Cheers
Neville

Collector of Southern Fleurieu Peninsula postmarks and postcards etc.

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Post by Greg Ioannou »

Overton thought he's seen a Laura with corners dated 1923. I'd ignore that (given his general unreliability), but our mysterious friend SI claims to have one dated 1924 (and SI has tended to be extremely reliable). (And a corners removed one dated 1928.)

In fact, SI in his notes corrects Overton's date to 1919. He crosses it out later and writes in 1924.

This is one of those common cancels I've never paid much attention to. But I think there's more going on than we see at first.

Greg

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Post by dwhopper »

Greg

I have a clear Type 3, Code 1 dated MY 12 20. All my corners removed examples are in 1925.

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Post by Greg Ioannou »

Bingo -- a smoking gun. A postmark with the corners intact after the date we know they had been removed. Cox reports the earliest corners removed he'd seen as JA 1 20, five months earlier earlier than yours. Thanks!

My current working theory: there were two virtually identical hammers. One had its corners removed in 1919, the other in early 1924.

Now I have to figure out how to tell them apart. And Neville is much better at that than I am.

Greg

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Post by Greg Ioannou »


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Laura

Post by GraniteSA »

Greetings

Don't forget not all the corner bars were removed.
Image
Cheers
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Post by dwhopper »

Duly noted. Personally I need to see two corner bars before I decide it is a squared circle and not the corner removed version.

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Post by Greg Ioannou »

I think my scan (the last two stamps of the six I showed) shows one corners removed (the green one) with those lines showing and one (the red one) with no trace of the lines.

"Duly noted," David? Referring to Laura or Ray?

Greg

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Post by Lakatoi 4 »

I noticed this one last night and thought it might look OK in this topic. Corner pair of 1d. Roo's with Stansbury 20/2/1914 squared circle cancel:

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Post by Greg Ioannou »

Tony, that's supposed to be a common postmark, but I've had little luck finding good clear strikes of it. Yours is right in the middle of its 1904-1923 period of known use, and has nothing else remarkable about it other than its eye appeal. (Have you tried to plate the roos?)

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Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Greg Ioannou wrote:Have you tried to plate the roos?
Greg
Plate Roo's :shock:

I have enough trouble plating the early BNG and Papua (and they have only 30 stamps per sheet) :!:
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Re: South Australia Squared Circle Postmark discussion

Post by reddog »

Hi all, Reddog here. :D


I was watching this lot on e-bay out of curiosity until I noticed something decidedly odd about the 9d Long Tom. Check the "N" of "MOUNT", it is reversed :!: One presumes such an error would not have lasted long, has anyone seen (or heard) of this? I have the 1983 "A Catalogue of Squared Circle Postmarks of South Australia" but it makes no mention of this item.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=390017592238

Thinking about it it's not hard to see how it could happen given that M, O, U, and T are symmetric and thus it would look natural to load the "N" incorrectly.

At the price I thought it was worth the punt so I grabbed it.

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Re: South Australia Squared Circle Postmark discussion

Post by Kev »

Well spotted Mark!

Kev.

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Re: South Australia Squared Circle Postmark discussion

Post by Greg Ioannou »

Grrrr. I looked at that lot and didn't notice that little detail. Nice catch.

Greg

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Re: South Australia Squared Circle Postmark discussion

Post by reddog »

Hi gents, I've spent a bit of time squinting at the screen in search of very early Federal period postmarks lately. This just happened to catch my eye. I still keep going back to the image to make sure I'm not seeing things :!:

Any precedents for this sort of thing? By the reactions it seems it would be sought after in squared circle circles. :D

Cheers,
Mark.

P.S. It's still there.
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Re: South Australia Squared Circle Postmark discussion

Post by Greg Ioannou »

reddog wrote:Hi gents, I've spent a bit of time squinting at the screen in search of very early Federal period postmarks lately. This just happened to catch my eye. I still keep going back to the image to make sure I'm not seeing things :!:

Any precedents for this sort of thing?
Yes. The Hermansberg squared circle had a backwards R, for example.

You wouldn't be certain of what it really was until you had the stamp in your possession. There's another thread here somewhere where a postmark seemed to have an H instead of an N or vice versa. It looked really convincing until you looked more closely, and realized that it was just the odd way it was inked. This might be the same sort of thing.
reddog wrote:
P.S. It's still there.
Well yes, but it has been sold. So all it can really do is sit there and taunt us.

Greg

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Re: South Australia Squared Circle Postmark discussion

Post by reddog »

Back again.

Greg, I was just referring to the "N" with the P.S. comment, I wasn't trying to be smart or anything. When I get it I'll post a better scan. My initial thought was that it may be good trade bait (depending upon how it looks in the flesh so to speak).

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Re: South Australia Squared Circle Postmark discussion

Post by Greg Ioannou »

I hadn't realized you were the buyer! That's good news.

Greg

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Re: South Australia Squared Circle Postmark discussion

Post by reddog »

Hi Greg

No worries mate, didn't want you thinking the wrong thing. That lot seemed to be heading for a no bid result with a start of $15 (even Aussie dollars :!: ), mine was the only bid but I must admit to a quiet fist pump when it got up (although I had a $28 max bid).

The proof of the pudding is, as they say, in the eating. But now it'll be after Christmas before it arrives.

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Re: South Australia Squared Circle Postmark discussion

Post by arls1 »

Hi All,

These are the only Sq Circle ones (I think they all are) I could find
from S.A. Anything interesting?

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Thanks :)
Arlene

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Re: South Australia Squared Circle Postmark discussion

Post by Greg Ioannou »

Hi, Arlene.

1. Gawler type 6, time code 5. Very common.

2. Burnside, Parkside or Woodside. Probably Woodside, which is the most common of the three. But they are all common enough that it isn't really worth figuring out which it is.

3. Hammond. Very common.

4. Mount Mary, type 1. Too bad it is so partial -- this is quite a rare one.

5. Warooka. A scarce one, and a decent instantly recognizable strike of it showing the complete date. Nice.

6. Mount Torrens, time code 1. Another scarce one, and an almost complete strike.

Regards,

Greg

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Re: South Australia Squared Circle Postmark discussion

Post by Greg Ioannou »

Here's one I'm puzzling over:

Image

It is the only Lake Plains cancel I have, and I'm not sure what it is. For starters, is it even a squared circle?

Overton lists two types of this, and I realize that some contend there is only one type. The two types are 25 mm and small letters, and 27 mm and larger letters. Mine seems to be 25 mm, and I have nothing to compare the letter size to.

So Overton type 1? Type 1 is known used from 1890, and this just doesn't look like that early a type. Is there really a type 2?

Anyone have any other Lake Plains cancels I could compare with?

Thanks,

Greg

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Re: South Australia Squared Circle Postmark discussion

Post by arls1 »

Thank you for the info Greg. :)

Arlene

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Re: South Australia Squared Circle Postmark discussion

Post by reddog »

Greg, you were right :!:

Thankfully I didn't punt too much on it and got a few Long Toms in the process.

Image

Cheers,
Mark.
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Re: South Australia Squared Circle Postmark discussion

Post by dm57 »

Bad luck Mark.......I would have been fooled also as it sure does look reversed.......hopefully next time it goes in your favour

Dieter

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Re: South Australia Squared Circle Postmark discussion

Post by reddog »

Thanks Dieter, I'll be twice shy when similar situations arise in the future. That said you've got to be in it to win it. :D

It feels pretty steamy up here in Toowoomba today I bet it's even more so down your way.

Might get a storm later.

Cheers,
Mark.
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Re: South Australia Squared Circle Postmark discussion

Post by dm57 »

Sure do Mark......did a similar thing a while back.....thought I'd spotted a 6d blue broken leg roo......same result when it arrived and I didn't break the bank so no harm done.....but occassionally you have a nice find

yep hot and steamy....beach was nice this morning.....the aircon and the icecream are about to cop a workout 8)

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Re: South Australia Squared Circle Postmark discussion

Post by reddog »

I concur, bring on the aircon. :D

I don't feel guilty since I'm in the recycling business. :mrgreen:

Cheers,
Mark.
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