Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquidation

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David Benson
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by David Benson »

Glen,

it states Melissa joined the company in 1992, later it says in the 20 years of her employment, therefore it must be 2012,

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Global Administrator »

David, it also says in par #1 Barry Cooper worked at Harmers of Sydney which I do not believe is correct, so who knows what to believe in self-written histories!

For the late 1970s McNess, Friedman and the slightly later "Holding" collections era he mentions, Cooper was part owner of Status along with Hugh Freeman. I know this as he lived 100 yards from me in Bondi, and I often drove him home from the Status viewings. :lol:
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Rod Perry »

Barry Cooper once worked for Harmers of Sydney.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Global Administrator »

Rod, Barry may well have done in the earlier 1970s but not while Danny was there - the H.F. McNess sale I was a major buyer from in June 1979, and Barry was certainly co-running Status then, I can verify that. The Holding Collection was June 2 1982 and Dr. Friedman New Guinea/NWPI etc took place between those 2.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Rod Perry »

Glen, Barry worked at Harmers towards the end of the firm's long tenure in Sydney, after he and Hugh went their separate ways at Status.

I was gobsmacked to bump in to him at Harmers, and to learn he was working there ("What the h . ll are you doing here?", or words to that effect I said).

He was wearing a bright pink tie that first time I saw him at Harmers, which prompted me to enquire was he introducing new livery for the auction house.

Harmers closed not long after he started, and Barry's next appearance was to resume at Status, replacing Hugh.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by David Benson »

Rod,

correct me if I am wrong,

I was told that Derek Yardley's boss, Barbara Brennan was a member of the Harmer family,

David B.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Rod Perry »

David Benson wrote:Rod,

correct me if I am wrong,

I was told that Derek Yardley's boss, Barbara Brennan was a member of the Harmer family,

David B.
That's what I've understood, David.

Really, really tough lady, I add, as kindly as possible.

I was the biggest buyer at Harmers of Sydney during the 1970s, and not by a small margin, and believe I have the record invoice.

Irrespective, when the firm was closing down, Mrs Brennan approached me before the final sale, and mentioned I owed $20. She could not explain the circumstances.

At AUSIPEX 84, Mrs Brennan came to my Stand and said "We've written off that $20 . . . but you do owe it!"

The Harmer Organisation was well noted on the public record for family disfunction. Harmer vs Harmer is, I understand, to this day a classic case in UK legal history.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Global Administrator »

Barry and Hugh both jointly ran owned Status in the early 80s as I recall, but not sure who had the most skin in the game. I do not remember him at Harmers of Sydney, and I was at all their sales then.

Barry and Diane still had the retail shop in Curlewis Street Bondi as I recall, that Diana mostly manned, along Ron Fell during the week I think. And he and Ron and Graeme Fudge had a successful circuit of weekend stamp shows then too.

I was viewing a carton of Aust States material on a large stack of pages one afternoon at Status and Hugh walked by, and in my then innocence asked him if the few nice looking WA Hillman 1857 Swan imperfs on one page were genuine in his view, as they looked so to my then newbie eyes, but could not understand why they were sitting in a $300 carton lot. :lol: :lol:

He peered at them gobsmacked, quickly flicked thru the rest of the pile of pages, and went to the back office where a loud and heated conversation ensured, audible to the lot viewers. Barry, the pragmatist who cared zippo about States material had lotted the carton for a few $100, as it was from an Estate, whilst Hugh was on holidays. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hugh the States 'magpie' had wished to personally inspect it first I gathered, and break it down into different states. Anyway, I later bought it for a relative "song", and made (for me then) an absolute fortune from it. A warning to all vendors at public auctions - ensure your materiel is lotted intelligently. :mrgreen:

I drove Barry home that night an hour later, and he announced 'he'd had it', and he was parting ways after his loud fight with Hugh. He continued on his mega successful way in the early 80s, trading to "investor" and trade contacts from his very modest home behind the KFC, and motorbike repair shop, on Bondi Road. They literally needed to demolish part of the front wall of that home so Chubb could winch in the largest sized safe imaginable in a domestic house, and there were cartons of cash stored in there.

Barry would have his great mate Ron Cooper, Editor of the "ASM" air by hand courier express him a bundle of each new magazine, at pretty huge cost each month, and no internet or email existed. (They were ~300 pages thick then due to the "Boom") The market was like a Casino back then. If some Qld or WA or SA dealer had 1966 Navigators, or PNG 1952 sets, or Cocos 1963 sets on sale too low he'd hoover them up by phone and make a killing. 8)

The Bondi PO was literally 50 yards from his front door, and I was there each day, mailing and collecting stamps - so often popped in for a beer as I walked past his door. He was very good to me and sort of mentored me in my earlier days, and loaned me money on a handshake etc, and I liked he and Diane. I understand they are both still fiddling about with stamps up in Northern NSW.

The early 1980s saw sums of money going into modern Aust and Territory "Investment" stamps, that the present generation simply cannot believe or comprehend - as Rod will recall! And up here Barry was Napoleon, and got a vast chunk of it. Barry became ASDA President in this period as I recall - being violently opposed to the PO "Archive Sales". He should have retired with gazillions, but 4 legged equine interests put paid to that result, sadly I gather.

Very little at all to do with Velvet Auctions, I confess, and back to normal programming now. :lol: :lol:

Glen

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Rod Perry »

Di passed away a few years ago, I'm sorry to report, Glen.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by mcgooley »

While the last few posts have given some interesting background information, I'm not sure of the relevance to Velvet Collectable Auctions' state of affairs now.

I feel quite certain that there are a number of collectors who are following this thread to learn about the developments of this sorry saga - and not all of them will be Stampboards members. Since this thread appears to be the only outlet for information for most people at this stage, could we please stick to the topic at hand...
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

I am still waiting for a report from the liquidator or whoever on what happened at the creditors' meeting on Thursday 24th. Has the liquidator been changed. Is there a committee. What did Danny say either in person or writing.

I presume the liquidators are busy today (Tuesday). Vendors with unsold lots were asked last week to pick them up or get them them picked up (by Status or).... by March 31 or forfeit them to the company pool (really!!!!) in a letter sent out by Raymond Jang of WilliamBuck.

I have made arrangements with Status and heard from Robert Morrello but getting any email reply from Jang or anyone at the liquidators to confirm receipt of instructions and list of unsold lots and descriptions is not getting a response.

At least one other vendor in Sydney has left two unanswered calls to Jang and I have advised him to email Jang and cc Status and Brendan Copeland.... I know they are busy but emails need acknowledging.

If you have unsold lots act pronto.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Raz »

I tried to call Raymond Jang at 9.20am. No answer. So I e-mailed them then.
No reply yet.

To get any money back we are carting dung on an upward gradient. :cry:

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by David Benson »

Paul,

re.
If you have unsold lots act pronto.
Looks like the office in Kippax Street has to be vacated soon,

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by fromdownunder »

David Benson wrote:Looks like the office in Kippax Street has to be vacated soon,

David B.
Which suggests that they may be a bit behind in rent payments.

This brings me to my main point, which I intended to post a while back. If they owe money to the ATO (Australian Taxation Office) the Tax Office gets first dibs on all of it, and there may not be that much left for creditors after all settlements are done.

I must admit that this entire episode makes me sad. I recall that Danny took up Glen's column in Stamp News in the early 1990's after Glen moved on to Australasian Stamps, and I really did enjoy Danny's articles and writing skills.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

Tax appears to be 8000 or so on creditor list.....which creditors are circulating now and many people other than creditors have seen it.About 500-600 creditors .

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by satsuma »

I just did some searches on the APTA website and "Danny Jurd", "Jurd", "Velvet" and "Velvet Collectables" all returned nothing.

I guess APTA has acted

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

As advised to liquidator

Confirming 6000 dollar cheque written by DJ on Feb 29 and banked for 6446.14 nz dollars bounced . That costs me NZ$6781,38 owing to exchange rate and penalties.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by BigSaint »

fromdownunder wrote:This brings me to my main point, which I intended to post a while back. If they owe money to the ATO (Australian Taxation Office) the Tax Office gets first dibs on all of it, and there may not be that much left for creditors after all settlements are done.

Norm
Not quite right Norm:

"If there are funds left over after payment of the costs of the liquidation, and payments to other priority creditors, including employees, the liquidator will pay these to unsecured creditors as a dividend. Generally, the order in which funds are distributed is:

1. costs and expenses of the liquidation, including liquidator's fees
2. outstanding employee wages and superannuation
3. outstanding employee leave of absence (including annual leave, sick leave - where applicable - and long service leave)
4. employee retrenchment pay, and
5. unsecured creditors.

Each category is paid in full before the next category is paid. If there are insufficient funds to pay a category in full, the available funds are paid on a pro rata basis (and the next category or categories will be paid nothing)."
http://asic.gov.au/regulatory-resources/insolvency/insolvenc ... quidation/
The ATO may have other remedies available to collect their $8000 from DJ personally. However categories 1 to 4 above may absorb all of the available cash anyway.

As discussed earlier on this thread, the circumstances & timing of liquidator advice & appointment may quarantine the proceeds of the March 13 auction which may mean vendors of the March 13 auction may receive some of their amounts due before some other creditors.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by lesbootman »

This is a sad state of affairs all round.

Given the current thoughts on Stanley Gibbons (expressed on another thread), an Australian auction house failing, some buyers regarding ebay sellers as a bunch of rogues and not being prepared to pay more than $20 for an ebay lot ... who can you trust (other than Glen of course)?
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by GlenStephens »

lesbootman wrote: ... who can you trust?
Before ebay was invented, Before Velvet was ever thought of, there were always safe and instant ways to sell ANY stamps, for spot cash. Some things in life do not alter. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by fossick »

Of course there will always be a buyer if the price is right.

To be able to get your items out in front of as many prospective buyers safely and receive just and fair price is the largest issue facing sellers.

There are always going to be rogues and vagabonds out there willing to take advantage of the uneducated and unwary vendor.

The proliferation of recent times of gouging auction houses and ebay buyers wanting to pay peanuts for things of value is just the most recent incarnation.


Classic example I came across recently involved some 100 plus years old rare books I found in my fathers estate. I researched them and discovered they had a realistic value of several thousand dollars on a bad day. Took them to a rare book dealer and was offered $60.00 for the lot.

Now I'm not against dealers making a profit but!!!

Moral of the story is sellers need to be aware the same as buyers.

Knowledge is power and trust is of equal importance.

Not sure how you would have been able to assess trust in the case of DJ but there must have indicators visible to those in the trade that all was not well.

One thing for sure is that he has lost the trust and respect of a good many people over this sorry saga.

Rant over.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by David Benson »

There was an example of that here in Sydney about 20 years ago when a well known collector died, his collection was sent to London but his book collection was sold by his son to a well known bookseller who paid $1.00 per book.

There were 100's of books and when a member of our society was looking through the books for sale, he noticed the handstamp of the Club on a lot of them.

He mentioned it to the owner and the books were luckily retrieved. By coincidence the collector was the Club's librarian, (enough said),

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by fchd »

GlenStephens wrote:
Before ebay was invented, Before Velvet was ever thought of, there were always safe and instant ways to sell ANY stamps, for spot cash. Some things in life do not alter.

There are, but the number of ways is diminishing. When I was growing up, there were probably a dozen stamp shops within 100 miles of me. Now there are none. Even some of the bigger mail-order dealers and those who have stalls at national-level shows have gone.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

About eight years ago I was talking to a reputable small dealer who ran an auction house in New Plymouth now deceased. He told me he was at a stamp fair in Wellington where another small trader showed him some NZ material be bought off an old lady. One was a scarce 10 shilling stamp booklet and he boasted to my friend how he said 10 bob was a dollar and paid her a dollar for it and then boasted about selling it for $600. My friend was appalled. A profit is a profit and we have all heard customer beware but this sort of thing is morally wrong if legally OK. I would never have anything to do with that wide boy now.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by numisphil »

Before ebay was invented, Before Velvet was ever thought of, there were always safe and instant ways to sell ANY stamps, for spot cash. Some things in life do not alter.
I'm surprised Arthur Gray and Stuart Harding bothered to consign their material to Auction when they could have simply packed their items into a carton and send it to a dealer and then wait to receive their cheques totalling about $20 Million by return mail.

In my experience 'spot cash' offers from dealers (myself included) have NEVER equated to market value. Anyone considering offering their valuable consignments to dealers as an alternative to Public Auction is delusional!

'Spot cash' offers are relevant only to consignments which are, quite frankly, crap.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Rod Perry »

A service I pioneered in the 1970s might be timely to reintroduce by an auction house or two?.

Please bear with this, Mods, as it has relevancy to the spirit of the topic.

Back then, my auction house would offer vendors the option to accept cash to the value of 75% of the printed estimate in the catalogue of their material. Our offer accompanied the vendor's catalogue and inventory.

Approximately 1 in 4 vendors opted for the cash.

The results for us were mixed, but generally we did slightly better in aggregate than would have been the case on a purely commission only basis.

The vendor got cash in hand about two months sooner than would otherwise have been the case, with no uncertainties, such as unsold lots.

The booming market as the 1970s progressed put an end to that practise.

Pretty much everything was going up in value at such a pace that everyone was better off chancing the auction outcome.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Global Administrator »

numisphil wrote:
'Spot cash' offers are relevant only to consignments which are, quite frankly, crap.
Typed by Tony C. - someone who used to be the very highly paid National General Manager for the very same auction house, that morphed into this Velvet mess, and who then indeed worked alongside Danny Jurd. You oddly forgot to mention those pieces of VERY relevant info Tony. :) :lol:

Mega rare stamp pieces generally do best at public stamp auctions. No-one doubts that. (p.s. it was Stuart HARDY not "Harding".)

The sadly long list of 100s of now sadly screwed creditors and vendors at Velvet did NOT own mega $$$ millions of stamp rarities like Arthur Gray or Hardy. They were normal collectors and battlers, selling their normal collections, of a $1000 or so in value I'd guess. And they have now lost near every cent it looks like, as they followed your wise guidelines. :roll: :roll: :roll:

A decent chunk of what was in each sale, was mint Australia postage as you know. From dozens often 100s of sources. Sheets, PO packs, Year Books etc. Simple to buy and sell fairly, for anyone with an IQ in double digits.

I and others, (well not you Tony - who admits you "NEVER" pay market value) will near always pay cash on the nail same day, for the same $$$ or more, than these schmucks end up with - (maybe) - many months from consigning to a public auction.

$1000 of mint sheets or blocks, will generally NOT give the seller one cent more, after all auction fees both ends, and GST deductions on both those fees, than I'd pay CASH, same day, NO RISK to seller either. Indeed dealers often offer MORE for postage lots, than the vendor receives months later from public auctions.

And you know that full well. If you believe they are "delusional" for selling $1000 of mint postage direct to a dealer for cash at a firm price, well your call. We are all entitled to an opinion. 8)

I had 2 sisters, come over yesterday with 11 x $200 Australia Gold Bullion coins. They'd ALMOST consigned them to Velvet last month, but I'd cautioned them on that in advance, and was thanked most profusely I might add.

All of us know the price of spot gold, and we all know these coins are worth around $5,000 melt value today. It is not rocket science, anyone with 2 eyes can look it up -

http://www.australian-coins.com/gold-coin-values/world-gold-coin-values.ht

The price I gave them was higher than 2 others had just offered, and they were happy. I moved them on fast for a modest profit, as gold bullion is a simple sell, and they had ZERO RISK or FEES in that transaction.

No AUD/USD currency risk, no risk of Gold dropping 10%, and zero Auction fees or commissions etc.

You are entitled to your view that they were "delusional" idiots Tony, and that $5,000 of Gold Bullion is "crap" and "not valuable", and sad to learn that you admit you do not offer market value when you buy anything, and NEVER have. Maybe that is why you needed to close your Lonsdale Melbourne retail shop down in recent years? Just a passing thought. Buying stock must be impossible with that rather novel business plan of "NEVER" paying market value for stock? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

A vast chunk of what goes into such auctions is deceased Estate material where the Public Trustee or Solicitors or family etc INSISTS it be auctioned, as that is easy for THEM, and saves beneficiaries later squabbling over "real" value of the goods.

Living sellers, who still have all their faculties, have far wider choices. They are not all "delusional" Tony, as is your written view, and they do not all own "crap" as you impute.

And they do not need to offer them to someone who admits he "NEVER" offers market price for material. Some indeed would consider themselves pretty savyy, for locking in a firm fair price with zero fees and GST. And some would consign to Velvet. "Tale of Two Cities". 8)

numisphil wrote: In my experience 'spot cash' offers from dealers (myself included) have NEVER equated to market value.

Anyone considering offering their valuable consignments to dealers as an alternative to Public Auction is delusional!
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by numisphil »

A vast chunk of what goes into such auctions is deceased Estate material where the Public Trustee or Solicitors or family etc INSISTS it be auctioned, as that is easy for THEM, and saves beneficiaries later squabbling over "real" value of the goods.
In the FOUR YEARS I was at Gibbons, 95% of material came from living and breathing vendors, many of whom had horror stories of what they were offered by Melbourne retail dealers.
I had 2 sisters, come over yesterday with 11 x $200 Australia Gold Bullion coins. They'd ALMOST consigned them to Velvet last month, but I'd cautioned them on that in advance, and was thanked most profusely I might add.

All of us know the price of spot gold, and we all know these coins are worth around $5,000 melt value today. It is not rocket science, anyone with 2 eyes can look it up -
Great story! But as you know, $200 Gold Coins are worth much more than 'melt' value so I wonder how 'profusely' the two sisters would thank you if they knew that.
Typed as someone who used to be the very highly paid National General Manager for the very same auction house Tony C, that morphed into Velvet, and who then worked alongside Danny Jurd. You plain forgot to mention those pieces of VERY relevant info Tony
I didn't mention this because it is IRRELEVANT to the thread
I and others, (well not you Tony - who admits you "NEVER" pay market value) will near always pay cash on the nail same day, for the same $$$ or more, than these schmucks end up with - (maybe) - many months from consigning to a public auction.
So you admit paying 'cash on the nail', but nowhere is your rant do you admit paying market value. You are correct: when I was in the shop I never paid Market Value....shoot me! When I was in the shop I always tried to buy items at a price lower than what I could sell them for.....shoot me! Are you suggesting that you have ever done otherwise?

The general theme of all your posts since the inception of Stampboards has been: DON"T SELL ON EBAY, SELL TO ME. Yet whenever YOU are selling something on Stampboards you never fail to remind prospective buyers that YOUR lots can be broken down and sold for a profit on Ebay.

Now, your latest mantra is DON'T CONSIGN TO AUCTION HOUSES, SEND IT TO ME. And what I am saying is, that is a good idea if vendors are sending you crap. If they are sending you valuable material they will NEVER be offered true market value.
Buying stock must be impossible with that rather novel business plan of "NEVER" paying market value for stock?
If I pay market value for stock, how can I sell it for a profit? I'm interested to know how you sell your stock (purchased by you at market value) for a profit. How do you sell a MUH Bridge purchased by you at market value of $850-$1000 (depending on centering) for a profit? How do you do it?????????????????

Not so novel business plan Glen, all dealers have always done it.......including you.

Regards. Thanks. Goodbye.
Last edited by numisphil on 31 Mar 2016 11:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Global Administrator »

numisphil wrote:
Typed as someone who used to be the very highly paid National General Manager for the very same auction house Tony C, that morphed into Velvet, and who then worked alongside Danny Jurd. You plain forgot to mention those pieces of VERY relevant info Tony
I didn't mention this because it is IRRELEVANT to the thread
Well you may think it is not relevant Tony. Others may differ. :idea:

You were on the APTA Committee (that took an absolute eternity to expel Jude Koch and Blue Owl Stamps for all his hi-jinks, also an ex APTA Vice-President, and only after pressure from this Board), as was Danny Jurd, and you were his boss at Mowbray's which he later bought, to become Velvet.

Folks here can draw whatever conclusions they like from your comments, now they know this actual info.
numisphil wrote:as you know, $200 Gold Coins are worth much more than 'melt' value
If you are posting in writing that $200 Australia gold coins are worth much more than their $500 or so scrap melt value to buy, I can see why you needed to close the Melbourne retail Shop. :lol: :lol: :lol:

My point remains these sellers yesterday got more in cash from me than they'd have got anywhere else here in the trade. And certainly better than had they been auctioned yesterday. You call them "crap" - they thought they had some value. $5,000 to some normal folks, means more than to you it seems.

And if those same 11 coins were in the just completed Velvet sale in March, as they had planned, before I cautioned them to give him a miss, they'd get near zero, months down the track, after lots of headaches, and stress, and heartburn, and paperwork, and not $5000 they now have safely in their hands.

You however regard them as "delusional" for not auctioning them at Velvet, and you are fully entitled to your view. 8)

Glen

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by KevinHedley »

There have been a number of requests for members to stick to the subject but this thread continues to branch off here there and everywhere.

What is more there is a rule about disparaging remarks made about other members and that rule has clearly been breached.

I just looked at the first 13 posts on this page. The first one is clearly relevant, the next 11 are of nice historical interest and the one after that rightfully calls for order in the house.

For crying out loud, can we please only have posts which inform us about the current situation and help to clarify the rights of those involved.
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by jojo »

I am finding this thread disturbing, and hilarious, in equal measures. :( :lol:

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by numisphil »

You were on the APTA Committee (that took an absolute eternity to expel Jude Koch and Blue Owl Stamps for all his hi-jinks, also an ex APTA Vice-President, and only after pressure from this Board), as was Danny Jurd, and you were his boss at Mowbray's which he later bought, to become Velvet.

Folks here can draw whatever conclusions they like from your comments, now they know this actual info.
So what? Before I was Danny's boss, there was Hugh Freeman, then Duncan Mannins...how far back do you want to go? You are correct, APTA did take a long time to expel Jude Koch, a lot longer than they took to expel other members in the past.
And if you are posting in writing that $200 Australia gold coins are worth more than their $500 or so scrap melt value to buy, I can see why you needed to close the Melbourne retail Shop.
I'm not saying they are worth more than $500, just as you are not saying what EXACTLY you paid these two sisters who were 'profusely' grateful. And by the way $200 gold coins have a 'collector' value as opposed to a 'melt' value. I'm sure you mentioned this to them.
My point remains these sellers yesterday got more in cash from me than they'd have got anywhere else here in the trade.
Well we don't know because you don't actually tell us WHAT YOU PAID to the two profusely grateful sisters

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

I do keep on topic...and the latest is as a creditor I do not know what was decided at the creditors' meeting last Thursday.

The movement of unsold lots to vendors or to Status or wherever depends on the liquidator getting access to Kippax St building. That is being arranged. It is locked by the landlord at the latest update I got yesterday.

A chap at the liquidators is busy working out who owns what of the unsold material hence important for all vendors to heed the email they got to send a list of unsold lots, the lot number and description and state clearly they will collect the lots or who will. With phone numbers etc.

Anything that can help the liquidator as they are not philatelists.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by jojo »

numisphil wrote:
You were on the APTA Committee (that took an absolute eternity to expel Jude Koch and Blue Owl Stamps for all his hi-jinks, also an ex APTA Vice-President, and only after pressure from this Board), as was Danny Jurd, and you were his boss at Mowbray's which he later bought, to become Velvet.

Folks here can draw whatever conclusions they like from your comments, now they know this actual info.
So what? Before I was Danny's boss, there was Hugh Freeman, then Duncan Mannins...how far back do you want to go? You are correct, APTA did take a long time to expel Jude Koch, a lot longer than they took to expel other members in the past.
And if you are posting in writing that $200 Australia gold coins are worth more than their $500 or so scrap melt value to buy, I can see why you needed to close the Melbourne retail Shop.
I'm not saying they are worth more than $500, just as you are not saying what EXACTLY you paid these two sisters who were 'profusely' grateful. And by the way $200 gold coins have a 'collector' value as opposed to a 'melt' value. I'm sure you mentioned this to them.
My point remains these sellers yesterday got more in cash from me than they'd have got anywhere else here in the trade.
Well we don't know because you don't actually tell us WHAT YOU PAID to the two profusely grateful sisters



Gentlemen don't (and won't) tell..... :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Global Administrator »

numisphil wrote:
So what? Before I was Danny's boss, there was Hugh Freeman, then Duncan Mannins ... how far back do you want to go? You are correct, APTA did take a long time to expel Jude Koch
"So What" Tony, is that Duncan and Hugh are not posting on this thread, (although both read it!) saying things like this below, without the full disclosure of your past management of that same auction, and your past relationship with Danny Jurd.

That is the only "So What" that you failed to mention to other readers when you posted. :idea: :idea:

Now they know the facts, they can place the appropriate weight on your "interesting" comments -
numisphil wrote:Anyone considering offering their valuable consignments to dealers as an alternative to Public Auction is delusional!

'Spot cash' offers are relevant only to consignments which are, quite frankly, crap.[/b]
Anyway, as Kevin Hedley mentioned, let's steer comments to be related to -

"Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquidation"

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Global Administrator »

Paul Peters wrote: ... as a creditor I do not know what was decided at the creditors' meeting last Thursday.
Seeing they owed you 50K or 60K or whatever, going back 9 months or so, surely you appointed someone to attend on your behalf?

Indeed a return airfare is a couple $100 - I'd have been on a plane if it were me.

Glen

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by numisphil »

I've just heard from one of the employees from Velvet and they have asked me to clarify a couple of matters for this Board for those that may be interested:

1. Staff entitlements are not coming out of funds. They are covered by the Government

2. The rent for the premises was NOT in arrears

3. At the moment Liquidators only are allowed on the premises (no staff)

4. Website will be updated sometime today

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

I asked the liquidator about Thursday's meeting. They were confirmed as liquidator. No one had questions. He is now starting his examination of the firm. There may be a statement to creditors when he has completed it.

I appointed chairman as proxy. I could not get over as had urgent stuff to do here in NZ too.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Global Administrator »

Paul Peters wrote:
I appointed chairman as proxy.
And that is?

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

APTA have just now advised by email. In response to the case I made going back to Feb 9.

''APTA membership of Velvet Collectables has been suspended and they are under investigation by the Association. ''

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by GJ50 »

I am now retired after 50 years in a sporting goods business, and had my share of liquidations to deal with over those years.

Many years ago I attended my first and only Creditor's meeting. A waste of time, only 2 creditors were there. Me, not owed a lot and a solicitor for a creditor owed heeps. Lasted all of 10 minutes.

From then on I learnt to [1] check the debt details sent was correct and [2] file it away and then when liquidation was complete it generally meant my debt was fully claimable as a bad debt as the ATO; Banks and liquidator got most of it.

My advice, move on, life is too short and the liquidator takes most of the cash. constantly contacting them eats into the pool of money available and they know how to charge by the minute.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

To GJ50

Lawyer friend's advice the same...let liquidator do his job and if he has reason to take it further with asic he will.

In general if a liquidation goes a lot further to personal assets and or prosecutions the person/s concerned just go bankrupt. There is often no money to be recovered whatever happens.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Jack56 »

Hi

I don't really want to post anymore on this topic BUT the statement that employee entitlements will be paid by the government and not from company assets is WRONG. First port of call is the company from non-fixed assets, ie stock, debtors and cash. If those assets can't cover employee entitlements then you can lodge a claim via the government FEGS scheme. Having said that, superannuation isn't covered, and the director(s) may become personally liable.

One final observation that I've made previously.

Those people that consigned goods to the "final" auction should get their money.

Its beggars belief that a director would knowingly sell goods not belonging to the company the day before a liquidation that only benefited the company, and dare I say indirectly its director(s) and deprive the rightful owners.

I believe it is a crime (theft or financial advantage by deception or some such nonsense) not just an offence against the Corps Act. Additionally, I wouldn't let the liquidator fob me off with bull****, that he or she didn't know about the auction the day before, and frankly it shouldn't matter.

As I said, I can see why an already planned auction went ahead, for the commission, BUT not the sale proceeds that belong to the consignees.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Harri »

Jack56 wrote:Hi

I don't really want to post anymore on this topic BUT the statement that employee entitlements will be paid by the government and not from company assets is WRONG. First port of call is the company from non-fixed assets, ie stock, debtors and cash.

If those assets can't cover employee entitlements then you can lodge a claim via the government FEGS scheme. Having said that, superannuation isn't covered, and the director(s) may become personally liable.

One final observation that I've made previously.

Those people that consigned goods to the "final" auction should get their money.

Its beggars belief that a director would knowingly sell goods not belonging to the company the day before a liquidation that only benefited the company, and dare I say indirectly its director(s) and deprive the rightful owners.

I believe it is a crime (theft or financial advantage by deception or some such nonsense) not just an offence against the Corps Act. Additionally, I wouldn't let the liquidator fob me off with bull****, that he or she didn't know about the auction the day before, and frankly it shouldn't matter.

As I said, I can see why an already planned auction went ahead, for the commission, BUT not the sale proceeds that belong to the consignees.
In the latest correspondence from Buck, an option is provided to the owner of material to uplift from Bucks Syd office, or that the material be assigned to another auction house (i.e.: Status international) to be sold.

They also sent me a proof of debt, as I have no paperwork from Velvet, this may get messy, as I have no actual record of sales, other post auction results of what was sold or not.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

Harri,

I always received a list of my lot numbers in each auction and went down the side recording the realised price of sold lots next to each lot and leaving a blank for the unsolds.

Then I totalled up the sold lots and did the calculation of minus 17.5pc and in my case as a non Australian seller deducted 10pc VAT on the commission as well , to get my net price. I then added any post-auction sales to each auction's tally.

They always sent a document stating the unsold lot numbers that would appear in the next auction. That helped identify any sales after the previous auction.

I did that with all auctions since June (inclusive).

As regards unsolds in March I have done the same and sent a list of all 20 unsolds and descriptions etc. Status and the liquidator have copies.

We have to the spade work....I don't know how well records are at VC end.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

Access to the building for unsold lots at VC will now be next week some time, I am told.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

The VC liquidators say the landlord in Kippax St changed the lock on March 24 and has denied access to the premises. Vendor unsold lots will go to Status (unless vendors collect them) when access can be obtained.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Paul Peters wrote:Vendor unsold lots will go to Status (unless vendors collect them) when access can be obtained.
Confirmed they are going to Status by one of their employees at a stamp club meeting last night.
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Global Administrator »

A client of mine for 35 years phoned me today.

He is now 92, and consigned about 400 albums to Velvet, he advises. He is now in a care home in Victoria, and is stressed beyond belief over all this.

He had one of the worlds best BIRD on stamps collections, and other high end topical collections. Told me it was worth $100,000.

He claims he has not seen a cent for their sale, and says the bulk of it was auctioned last year.

Words fail me.

Seems the unsolds have been sent to Status against his wishes, as it appears Danny Jurd is working there now.

It is like a Monty Python script.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Tassie_Stamps »

Yes, and he is listed on the creditors list as being owed a miserable $141.95 - Despite most of his material being sold at auction a year or so ago. I know, I purchased some of it. It seems that the bookeeping was inaccurate.

Very sad for him. He is a very nice guy and is very upset by this whole thing.

I also heard Danny Jurd is working at Status ...

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