Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquidation

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by ebayer »

Paul Peters wrote:Danny Jurd is now employed by Status Auctions.

The liquidators' action is likely to cause bankruptcy ... be interesting to see what emerges from that.

Remarkable that although trading insolvently for six years there are those defending him as a normal business failure. Just bad luck, old chap.
I wonder if any vendors were promised good results if they left lots in the forthcomnig sale, which would be bad advice, as it seems the auction owner Jurd realised the liqidators were about to descend?

Things like that are often Police matters, not ASIC.

Police may move slowly at times - this matter below has taken 4 years - but this was in today's paper -

https://thewest.com.au/news/albany-advertiser/albany-trader- ... b88599311z

Major Fraud squad have charged Albany man Robert Jackman with 36 counts of stealing following an investigation into his former business The Rare Coin Company.

The company went into liquidation in 2013 and Police allege that twenty investors were told by Mr Jackman, who was the company director, that their stocks had not been sold, and therefore no money had been paid to them.

Further investigation uncovered that the investors stock in the company had been sold and they had not received payment.

The value of the complaints is approximately $1.8 million.

Mr Jackman will appear in Albany Magistrates Court on September 28.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

In reply to the above, when I phoned DJ in Feb 2016 on discovering the Harri post, he denied being at risk of closure, and said as far as he was concerned he was expecting a good March auction and was preparing lots for it when I phoned as I believe he was.

Indeed he was taking lots right up to the last minute. He did have some good material, yes, but when I saw the catalogue of 800 odd lots, down from 1300 to 2000 previously, oh dear.

Of course all the he said, they said, I said is not recorded and therefore probably doesn't stand up in court.

I am interested to see where this goes with ASIC, and the ongoing investigations.

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Re: Delayed Payment From Major Sydney Auction House

Post by Harri »

RodT wrote:Nice to see Harri finally got his monies.

Pity it took a big jolt from Stampboards to get Velvet collectables to cough up.

The poor 'privacy' excuse from Danny doesn't wash.

Looks like he needs a PR refresher course.
I just got memo from liquidators, it looks like no funds available for any kind of payment, still owed $850, not good.

Stanley Gibbons could do Danny Jurd over big time, with their link having being used.

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Re: Delayed Payment From Major Sydney Auction House

Post by Global Administrator »

Harri wrote:
RodT wrote:Nice to see Harri finally got his monies.

Pity it took a big jolt from Stampboards to get Velvet collectables to cough up.

The poor 'privacy' excuse from Danny doesn't wash.

Looks like he needs a PR refresher course.
I just got memo from liquidators, it looks like no funds available for any kind of payment, still owed $850, not good.

Stanley Gibbons could do Danny Jurd over big time, with their link having being used.
Oh what a huge surprise, that the Liquidator Fees have totally eaten up every cent of money to be found. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Harri - back on page 1 of this thread Darry Jurd responded to your post, (his wording is below) where you were claiming you were owed money for many months.

You very foolishly made no further posts confirming that you WERE paid - or otherwise. "The Squeaky Wheel gets the grease." You were in the BOX SEAT to get paid, months before the money ran out. Very clearly you did not bother to chase what was owed, other than moaning here.

Jurd clearly stated here in Queen"s English your payment matter had been resolved. Velvet Auctions went into Liquidation 3 months after that post.

Are you now saying despite reading this post from the owner, clearly stating that your outstanding payments had been paid, they were NOT? And you simply rolled over and played dead to that?

If so, you really deserve to have lost it to be honest, for being totally asleep at the wheel. :idea:

Same with Paul Peters - he contacted me with his grave concerns, and I strongly urged him to have Velvet send across all his material they possessed to me by courier, for a same day cash purchase offer, "as I had heard certain things on the grapevine." Danny sweet talked him into not doing that, and Paul Peters too, has now lost the lot by that very poor decision.

Paul Peters would have pocketed a large chunk of same day cash had he followed my clear advice. You BOTH have yourselves to blame for your losses, as well as Jurd.

It is like blaming Nigerian scammers for getting ripped off - the participants too MUST carry some blame if they were INVOLVED. You BOTH knew there were major payment issues.

Glen
Danny Jurd in [u]JANUARY[/u] 2016 wrote:All the best to all for 2016. Firstly the matter, and any outstanding amounts has now been resolved.

Post allowed, It is true the matter did drag on for longer than we all would have hoped it would. As a bit of background, as some may not be aware. The general workings of an Auction house is/are you act as agent, sell, extract commission and remit balance of funds.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

Glen, the material that could have been sent across was Paraguay and constituted only a small part...a few thousand worth...the vast bulk of money owed (40k worth) was accrued prior. Hence chasing up payment the prior December....when it became clear to me an issue developing (December) 40k had already it seems been lost (along with others 1.2 m).

I am not in Australia and not privy to any buzz in grapevine....DJ seems to have kept things well hidden for years. I am not actually stupid... I have sold off material since the 1980s with no trouble until the DJ event.....and I continued with that firm as it had the SG legacy ( I have spoken to people there and they don't want to know).

I will no doubt hear same as Harri ( I can't speak for his situation you outline). Not sure if Harri is referring to the outcome of the court action or to a prior letter from liquidators. I will leave comment at that as I I have no idea what ASIC will or won't do about his ''actions''.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by gregbear61 »

Harri wrote:

Over 12 months ago I consigned a large specialized stamp collection to a major Sydney stamp auction house, all lots were sold, now the dealer is stalling with payment of over $5000.

They have made a part payment and lots of promises to pay the rest, it's now got to the stage where I may have to get a legal opinion.
Harri wrote:
I just got memo from liquidators, it looks like no funds available for any kind of payment, still owed $850, not good.

Stanley Gibbons could do Danny Jurd over big time, with their link having being used.
Based on Harri's then and now quotes, he has managed to reduce what was owed to him from over $5,000 to $850.

Better than many others involved in this sad saga.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

Further, my Paraguay lots had already been assigned to auction and the catalogue being printed.

In that case DJ could legally require a payment for late withdrawal of lots from the March sale. As stated before lots accounting for about 90pc of the money had already been sold by December. Pity phone calls to Melissa in December not recorded.

The snappy, edgy evasiveness..... and when you consider that several hundred creditors were involved in cases going back a long way .... years .. mine was months ... I wonder what those sellers/creditors were asking Jurd?

Also he did send a cheque for $6000 at the end of February but it bounced as it was in the system when he filed liquidation.
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Global Administrator »

Paul Peters wrote:Glen, the material that could have been sent across to you was Paraguay and constituted only a small part ... a few thousand worth
And not ONE cent of that "few thousands" would you have lost if you followed my clear advice to you at the time. Have a courier collect it all, and deliver elsewhere, and you then got paid cash same day with zero fees.

Probably more than you'd nett at auction after all fees were carved away, and which was never going to reach you anyway. Also you advised the material then on hand there contained Germany and Latvia, and other material.

Likewise Harri - Jurd posted right here that Harri had been paid. Either Harri can't read, or do math, or he is confused - or all three - who would know, he has only made 1 post during this entire thread he started.

Either way, you BOTH need to take personal responsibility for losing those slabs of money. In 2017 the world loves blaming everyone else at all times, and never taking any personal responsibility THEMSELVES.

If Harri cannot count, and was initially paid (he says) $850 short, when Velvet still had heaps of funds and had stated here Harri was already paid out in full - more fool Harri. If Paul Peters deliberately chose to listen to slick BS and leave stamps with Jurd on top of all the other losses, more fool you, as you were advised things were looking grim WAY before the Titanic Sunk.

You simply were tossing more cans of petrol onto the fire to put it out.

If your PAST sales for 6 or 12 months, had not been paid, again more fool you for not raising it with APTA far earlier - Danny Jurd was FEDERAL TREASURER THERE for goodness sakes. APTA have been a total joke in recent years, and it seems even after you contacted them well before liquidator was appointed, they did nothing to assist. No surprise there.

And to come up with a lame comment here that to remove your own property of unsold and yet to be auctioned stamps, would someone incur you fees - from someone who already owed you $40,000, for a year or whatever, beggars belief. Ever worked out what your INTEREST charge owed on $40,000 was, you could have invoiced them for??!!

You were near 100% likely to lose all that lot anyway, that was clear to me, so salvaging the remaining unsold remnants whilst you were readily able to, was simply common sense, and rescuing something at least from the very fast sinking ship.

Anyway, like dealing with a Nigerian who is promising you the $US684,756,865 inheritance is "all on the way Mon, be cooool don't Wurry" you both fell for it hook line and sinker, and nice to see "$850" and "a few thousand" in totally un-necessary losses, seem like small beer to you both.

Velvet Auctions were not trading as Stanley Gibbons and anyone that claims they were, lacked reading comprehension, and common sense, or both, I'd suggest further.

You knew who you were dealing with, and rolled the dice.
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Global Administrator »

mossgreen auctions appear to be on the same slippery slope this month.

Being apparently $A9 million in the hole based on first Creditors meeting. ~$3m assets and ~$12m debts -

http://stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=80017
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

For the record, the liquidators have sent creditors a letter advising that their findings have now been sent to ASIC, though those findings have not been stated in this letter so presumably they cover the matters they previously recorded.

The only ''ongoing'' task in their words is litigation relating to a million or so in insolvent trading. They hope to have the firm wound up in 3-6 months.

As regards any $ for creditors the situation is as expected.

Following the toxic Mossgreen case with interest.
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

An unsurprising letter to creditors from William Buck.

Summary: ASIC will not be taking any action against Danny Jurd

Danny Jurd declared he had only 1200$ in assets and no other assets of any other nature uncovered.

WB advise that legal action over the losses hinges on creditors pledging money to cover legal costs because WB have already used all the money recovered.

Readers will have their own opinions. It sure seems that running a business the way Danny Jurd did, which stinks (I could use other words but for legal reasons I will leave it that), for six years has no consequences.

He has his apologists.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by BigSaint »

Paul Peters wrote:An unsurprising letter to creditors from William Buck.

Summary: ASIC will not be taking any action against Danny Jurd

Danny Jurd declared he had only 1200$ in assets and no other assets of any other nature uncovered.

WB advise that legal action over the losses hinges on creditors pledging money to cover legal costs because WB have already used all the money recovered.

Readers will have their own opinions. It sure seems that running a business the way Danny Jurd did, which stinks (I could use other words but for legal reasons I will leave it that), for six years has no consequences.

He has his apologists.
Sadly this was expected with no money to play with, & creditors chipping in would just be a case of "robbing Peter to pay Paul". :shock:

Sorry about the bad pun Paul.

Brad

PS It wouldn't surprise me if the same result occurs with Mossgreen. :twisted:
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

BigSaint wrote:
Paul Peters wrote:An unsurprising letter to creditors from William Buck.

Summary: ASIC will not be taking any action against Danny Jurd

Danny Jurd declared he had only 1200$ in assets and no other assets of any other nature uncovered.

WB advise that legal action over the losses hinges on creditors pledging money to cover legal costs because WB have already used all the money recovered.

Readers will have their own opinions. It sure seems that running a business the way Danny Jurd did, which stinks (I could use other words but for legal reasons I will leave it that), for six years has no consequences.

He has his apologists.
Sadly this was expected with no money to play with, & creditors chipping in would just be a case of "robbing Peter to pay Paul". :shock:

Sorry about the bad pun Paul.

Brad

PS It wouldn't surprise me if the same result occurs with Mossgreen. :twisted:
I think there will be a difference in that the responsible Directors of Mossgreen at the time upset a lot of very influential people, the extent of the money owed is far greater than the Velvet debacle and the responsible Directors would still have considerable assets.

Offloading assets to others or squirelling away in overseas accounts, Bitcoin, etc. is not fondly looked upon by ASIC. So I think there will be some personal financial recovery action and possibly other things happening.
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Rod Perry »

Paul Peters wrote:WB advise that legal action over the losses hinges on creditors pledging money to cover legal costs because WB have already used all the money recovered.
Paul, sadly, even if there had been much, much greater funds for WB to consume, and some would venture they would have done so, absolutely, the outcome would not have varied.

WB may well have declared: "legal action over the losses hinges on creditors pledging money to cover legal costs because WB have already used all the money recovered."

Will we one day see a Royal Commission in to the activities of Registered Liquidators?

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by idlightbody »

Hi, I thought I should check to see if anyone else involved in the Velvet Collectables disaster has had issues with the administrators, William Buck, apart from the obvious: tapping into the remaining funds until they were dry.

One problem for me was that I had correspondence from WB incorrectly addressed to me throughout the past two-and-a-half years, despite many attempts to have this corrected by phone and letter. This meant that I received information very late and the "July 2018 letter" never came. I sent them an email because I had not heard anything. They eventually responded last week - two weeks later (after a follow-up phone call, to an almost empty office, on Friday afternoon during business hours) - with an email containing a copy of the letter.

I just want to check this problem was an isolated issue and not widespread. For me, it meant not being able to vote by proxy because I only had one day's notice for that one. Just saying, it is easier to pass a motion if only a few "creditors" can show up or organise a proxy.

Regards Ian

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by BigSaint »

Good Morning Ian

One of things we ask for new members is to introduce themselves.

Please go to the link below & do so.
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=10277&start=22150
Thank you

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by MJ's pet »

Paul Peters wrote:An unsurprising letter to creditors from William Buck.

Summary: ASIC will not be taking any action against Danny Jurd

Danny Jurd declared he had only 1200$ in assets and no other assets of any other nature uncovered.

WB advise that legal action over the losses hinges on creditors pledging money to cover legal costs because WB have already used all the money recovered.

Readers will have their own opinions. It sure seems that running a business the way Danny Jurd did, which stinks (I could use other words but for legal reasons I will leave it that), for six years has no consequences.

He has his apologists.
Well, now it is 12 months since Velvet and Mossgreen collapses and the Australian Stamp Dealers Association, and the Australian Philatelic Federation, (who have dealers in their membership and on their executive) is now no closer to ensuring at all Australian dealers operate trust accounts, and have appropriate insurance.

From the looks of things they have done absolutely zero, except ignore and ride out the crisis.

Just move along ... Nothing to see here.

SHAME SHAME SHAME

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by idlightbody »

Hi Paul,

I can't work out how to respond to you directly through the site, sorry. Sadly, I have no updates on Danny Jurd, Velvet Collectables and William Buck.

I hope it becomes a police matter and I hope that the liquidators are investigated by a Royal Commission.

All the honest people involved, like ourselves, have been wronged and nobody else seems to care.

Regards Ian

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by warm »

… and they are still able to work in the Philatelic Industry.

Will the 'professional' bodies not do something about this????

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

Hi Ian,

None of the points you mentioned is happening to the best of my knowledge. If Asic don't think it deserves investigation I doubt it has been referred to police. The liquidators never said why Asic decided that.

The reasons would have been interesting.

As I am in NZ and out of the loop I wondered if anyone had heard anything - no delusions about money etc just curious. The firm will soon be wound up if not already.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by MJ's pet »

Why are people (i.e. creditors) not posting the reports from the Velvet liquidator in full here?

It is not private information.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

The letter (hard copy) stated no more than stated by me here. I have emailed the liquidators for more info re why no action taken by ASIC.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

The latest I can find re ASIC and Velvet is from Aug 7 last year.
https://insolvencynotices.asic.gov.au/browsesearch-notices/n ... 081d63d9c8
Corporations Act 2001
Subsection 601AB(3)
NOTICE OF PROPOSED DEREGISTRATION - ASIC INITIATED UNDER 601AB(2) - s601AB(3)

Company details
Company: VELVET COLLECTABLES GROUP PTY LTD
ACN: 145 038 320

Notice
ASIC proposes to deregister the Company under section 601AB.

ASIC may deregister the Company when two months have passed since publication of this notice.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by BigSaint »

CORPORATIONS ACT 2001 - SECT 601AB

Deregistration--ASIC initiated
Circumstances in which ASIC may deregister

(1) ASIC may decide to deregister a company if:
(a) the response to a return of particulars given to the company is at least 6 months late; and
(b) the company has not lodged any other documents under this Act in the last 18 months; and
(c) ASIC has no reason to believe that the company is carrying on business.

(1A) ASIC may also decide to deregister a company if the company's review fee in respect of a review date has not been paid in full at least 12 months after the due date for payment.

(1B) ASIC may also decide to deregister a company if:
(a) the company is liable to pay levy imposed by the ASIC Supervisory Cost Recovery Levy Act 2017 ; and
(b) the company has not paid in full at least 12 months after the due date for payment:
(i) the amount of the levy; and
(ii) the amount of any late payment penalty payable in relation to the levy; and
(iii) the amount of any shortfall penalty payable in relation to the levy.
(2) ASIC may also decide to deregister a company if the company is being wound up and ASIC has reason to believe that:
(a) the liquidator is no longer acting; or
(b) the company's affairs have been fully wound up and a return that the liquidator should have lodged is at least 6 months late; or
(c) the company's affairs have been fully wound up under Part 5.4 and the company has no property or not enough property to cover the costs of obtaining a Court order for the company's deregistration.

Deregistration procedure
(3) If ASIC decides to deregister a company under this section, it must:
(a) give notice of the proposed deregistration:
(i) to the company; and
(ii) to the company's liquidator (if any); and
(iii) to the company's directors; and
(iv) on ASIC database; and
(b) publish notice of the proposed deregistration in the prescribed manner.
(3A) When 2 months have passed since the publication of the notice under paragraph (3)(b), ASIC may deregister the company.
(4) ASIC does not have to give a person notice under paragraph (3)(a) if ASIC does not have the necessary information about the person's identity or address.
(5) ASIC must give notice of the deregistration to everyone who was notified of the proposed deregistration under subparagraph (3)(a)(ii) or (iii).
(6) ASIC may refuse to deregister a company under this section if ASIC decides to order under section 489EA that the company be wound up.
(7) Subsection (6) does not limit ASIC's power to refuse to deregister the company.

So it appears "Billy Buck" passed the buck back to ASIC when the money ran out & left it to ASIC to deregister. So the Company is not liquidated & someone with a big bagful of money to spend is able to reregister the company through the Courts. However any person taking that course of action would have to confident of a good result before doing so.
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by MJ's pet »

Paul Peters wrote:The letter (hard copy) stated no more than stated by me here. I have emailed the liquidators for more info re why no action taken by ASIC.
Thanks Paul Peters.

I meant all of the reports, the original versions from Day 1, not just the latest letter. :)

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by MJ's pet »

Deregistration of Velvet as a company will be a fait accompli.

Not sure what all the "Billy Buck" rant above means. The liquidator needs funds to pursue Velvet. If there are none in the company, or creditors won't put it up, then there is nothing they can reasonably do. They do not work for free. Presumably you don't either.

The philatelic community has had years to put up the money to pursue Danny Jurd and it has not done so.

Velvet was always going to be deregistered, it was just a matter of when.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by BigSaint »

MJ's pet,

Deregistation is different to Liquidation.

Liquidation can be an expensive process but it is final. Deregistration is a cheaper process but it is not final. A deregistered company can come back. Many deregistered companies came back in the 1990s when the legal profession began pursuing claims on Workers Compensation Insurers for work related illnesses from the 1960s & 1970s relating to things like asbestos.

Billy Buck, by not spending the money to liquidate, left the door open for future claims by allowing ASIC to deregister. Some who have lost out in this debacle may think this is a good thing. Hope my "rant" is now clearer.

Brad :)
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by MJ's pet »

Brad
Deregistation is different to Liquidation.
Duh.
Liquidation can be an expensive process but it is final...Billy Buck, by not spending the money to liquidate ...
What "money" are you talking about? There is none.
Many deregistered companies came back
Surely, you are not saying that Velvet can or will "come back"?

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BigSaint
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by BigSaint »

MJ's pet wrote:Brad
Deregistation is different to Liquidation.
Duh.

No, not duh. Those outside the legal & accounting professions may not realise that difference.
Liquidation can be an expensive process but it is final...Billy Buck, by not spending the money to liquidate ...
What "money" are you talking about? There is none.

Billy Buck's own money or the money they used to pay their own fees.
Many deregistered companies came back
Surely, you are not saying that Velvet can or will "come back"?

Yes I am saying it can. I am not saying it will. There would have to be circumstances like finding a "big" bank account somewhere.
My responses in "red".

Brad :)
Specialist Collector of World Horse Racing Covers, Melbourne Cup & Kentucky Derby, & JFK fdcs.

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Paul Peters
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

I have early reports extending to more than 50 pages and will send it to MJ ...scroll way way down to see the liquidators comments on the faults found in the company. Subsequent reports I have are hard copy but the issues within the firm (Velvet) are the same.


It is too large to post here. If anyone wants a copy emailme, please.

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by Paul Peters »

The liquidators have replied briefly as follows verbatim:

In their standard letter to us, ASIC did not provide a reason behind their action.

That is the reply in full.

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MJ's pet
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by MJ's pet »

Hi Paul Peters

Do you have an off-board email contact.

cheers

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MJ's pet
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by MJ's pet »

This is mighty interesting. :idea:

When you go to StampCircuit and visit the Velvet Collectables Group page, and click on the "visit Velvet website", a redirect takes you automatically to Status International!

Try for yourself, here:

https://www.stampcircuit.com/content/velvet-collectables-group

Has Status paid for the Velvet IP (how much?), or have the Velvet sites been "hijacked", for want of a better word?

Image

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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by blackrom »

MJ's pet wrote:This is mighty interesting. :idea:

When you go to StampCircuit and visit the Velvet Collectables Group page, and click on the "visit Velvet website", a redirect takes you automatically to Status International!

Try for yourself, here:

https://www.stampcircuit.com/content/velvet-collectables-group

Has Status paid for the Velvet IP (how much?), or have the Velvet sites been "hijacked", for want of a better word?

Image
Status purchased Velvets Assests if i remember correctly..

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warm
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by warm »

warm wrote:… and they are still able to work in the Philatelic Industry.

Will the 'professional' bodies not do something about this????
… and still nothing changes.

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MJ's pet
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Re: Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquida

Post by MJ's pet »

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