Mossgreen Auctions Australia in Administration. Total KAPUT?

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Kevin Morgan
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Kevin Morgan »

Maybe these Google reviews may be a clue as to partially why they did not do as well as they had hoped:

"I unfortunately had to deal with Mossgreen on my fathers behalf. Sadly Mr Leski, promised us all the great things he could do with my fathers unique collection, my father packed up his valuable collection from Tasmania (which was hard for him) sent it to Melbourne, where it sat in the their warehouse for 12 months and nothing happened.

Mr Leski didn't respond to any emails, nor assist with how my father could list his items for sale. Yesterday I picked up the collection and have now had to find and pay for storage in Victoria. Not impressed and would not recommend selling with Mossgreen or Mr Leski."

"I have been engaged with this auction house and I am very disappointed with the services! General very very slow of responding emails. I request some images and condition report one months ago, they didn't get them done before the day of auction! That is a big delay for me to make the decision!

After the auction, I try to make payment for the lot and ask for payment detail they never reply to me and I have to charge for the storage fee for my lot as I cannot pick them up within 3 days!! That is ridiculous!"
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Kevin Morgan »

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/it-doesnt-look-good-art-au ... 0dlbp.html

Mossgreen art auction house and gallery has debts of $12 million and when asked about the chances of creditors getting their money back, a former director said "it doesn't look good".

Administrators BDO told 50 anxious people at the first creditors' meeting there were "circa 400" owed money and that Mosssgreen had assets of just $3 million.

Paul Sumner's powers as director of the art auction house Mossgreen will be suspended while administrators deal with its $12 million debt.

Toorak businessman Jack Gringlas​ confirmed to Fairfax Media that his family company Jadig Investments is the biggest creditor, being owed $6 million.

The Age understands another vendor is owed $400,000 from art and furniture sold at auction.

Another creditor is owed $250,000. Many other "mum and dad" vendors are owed anything from $5000 to $50,000.

Creditors will vote at a second meeting whether Mossgreen will be liquidated, or be restructured so it can continue.

It is understood that Mossgreen owes vendors $5.8 million, with the remainder owed to unsecured trade creditors.

Mr Gringlas, a Mossgreen director for four years until June 2017 when he sold his shares to Paul Sumner and his wife Amanda Swanson, said the $6 million owed is "a (This Word Auto Censored by Board software!) of money" and he was upset and frustrated.

It represented his loan to Mossgreen, fully expecting it would be paid back in coming years.

He said Mossgreen had paid interest, and Mr Gringlas was "pretty surprised" when Mr Sumner called in administrators.

Asked the about creditors' chances of getting their money back, Mr Gringlas said, "based on the numbers as they stand, it doesn't look good", although he hoped not: it was "a great auction house" and many employees were friends.

He said Mr Sumner had "written to every vendor and told them they're going to get 100 cents in the dollar ... that he is putting in place arrangements to ensure that they all get paid".

"So he must believe it. I don't know where that money is coming from because there isn't the money in the company, so I can only assume he's planning to bring more money into the company."

Mr Sumner's power as Mossgreen director has been suspended, but auctions scheduled for its base in Melbourne's Armadale will go ahead from February.

Mossgreen's Auckland office will re-open but the branch in Sydney's Woollahra – founded in 2016 – will close indefinitely.

An irate Cushla and John McNamara, from Richmond, doubt they will recoup $5000 they are owed.

Mossgreen sold their pair of 1840s armchairs at a December 11 auction, but the couple haven't been paid.

Mr McNamara, who ran a roofing company for 30 years, reckoned Mossgreen will fold because it has too much debt, and "we won't get a cent".

He said the reason for Mossgreen's trouble is "simple": "Just poorly run, you've got X amount, you make a certain amount, you don't spend anything above it"

Mr and Mrs McNamara sold through Mossgreen because of its good name in selling Australiana.



http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/it-doesnt-look-good-art-au ... 0dlbp.html
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Kevin Morgan »

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by gregbear61 »

So, based on the Age article, the 'back of the envelope' numbers they provide are:

Total Assets:......................$3.0m

Liabilities:

Jack Gringlas (secured)......... $6.0m
Vendors (unsecured).............$5.8m
Trade Creditors...................$0.2m (being what's left)

Total Liabilities.................$12.0m

Shortfall:........................($9.0m)

Jack Gringlas being a secured creditor ranks above other creditors, so would get most of whatever of the $3m asset value remains after staff entitlements, administrator fees, etc., to cover his $6m debt.

That leaves nothing for anyone else obviously and unfortunately.

Regarding the debt to vendors, Mossgreen did run quite a few auctions late 2017:

- 6 in the first two weeks of December
- 11 in November
- 10 in October

so, it may not have taken very long for the $6m owed to vendors to accumulate from those 27 sales (being an average $220k owed per sale) and would be within the normal expected period for being paid. Unlike Velvet where unpaid vendors financed its trading losses for up to 5 years.

Jack Gringlas may have the most incentive to be the white knight, and this may have been what Mossgreen were hoping for, but he's telling the Age journalist he doesn't know where the money to save the business is coming from, and he only exited a few months ago with Charles Leski.

No white knights have yet put up their hands, and rescuing a company with $9m negative equity appears a daunting proposition.

Still, Paul Sumner is out there trying. Here's hoping.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Funny thing, about 18 months ago my wife considered selling her late mother's stunning diamond ring at auction.

I knew that Mossgreen had a specialist jewellery section and that the lady in charge was to visit Sydney at the time so it seemed opportune to try and make an appointment with her and see if the ring could be listed in their next auction.

After a couple of unanswered emails, I decided to call her mobile number and left a message on her voicemail. After a couple of days and no return call, I rang Mossgreen's offices in Armadale. Of course the jewellery specialist department and the lady in charge were busy so I left another message.

I rang again the next day, got the same run around and decided it was all too hard, if they didn't want to return emails or phone calls I didn't want to waste anymore time with them.

From Kevin's post above, it sounds like other people were treated similarly. You don't succeed in business by doing that :!:
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by aethelwulf »

Kevin Morgan wrote:Electric being cut off?
Google says that image was in Nov 2016.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by AberdeenBill »

Does anybody know how much of Mossgreen's business was (not is anymore :oops: ) in cars, furniture, antiques, etc., compared to stamps? Who in their right mind is going to inject something like AUS$10 million into this ailing business??

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by GJ50 »

AberdeenBill wrote:Does anybody know how much of Mossgreen's business was (not is anymore :oops: ) in cars, furniture, antiques, etc., compared to stamps? Who in their right mind is going to inject something like AUS$10 million into this ailing business??

Bill
4 people out of 55 involved in stamps. Also have a look at number of auctions in 2017. Vast majority were for other than stamps.
In a nut shell - 15%.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Global Administrator »

Clive wrote:Paul Sumner is on the public record giving categoric undertakings that neither vendors nor staff will be affected by the move to enter voluntary receivership.

Should we not take his statements at face value until and if there is reason/evidence not to?

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by capetriangle »

Global Administrator wrote:
Clive wrote:Paul Sumner is on the public record giving categoric undertakings that neither vendors nor staff will be affected by the move to enter voluntary receivership.

Should we not take his statements at face value until and if there is reason/evidence not to?

Clive
As I pointed out earlier, not all of us live in 'La La Land' Clive. :roll:
I, too, would easily hold that opinion, my word is my bond. Remember I was this close ║ to consigning.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Kevin Morgan »

aethelwulf wrote:
Kevin Morgan wrote:Electric being cut off?
Google says that image was in Nov 2016.
I was trying to lighten the thread :)
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Clive »

Global Administrator wrote:
Clive wrote:Paul Sumner is on the public record giving categoric undertakings that neither vendors nor staff will be affected by the move to enter voluntary receivership.

Should we not take his statements at face value until and if there is reason/evidence not to?

Clive
As I pointed out earlier, not all of us live in 'La La Land' Clive. :roll:
Glen,

Yes, regrettably, taking people at their word, giving them the benefit of the doubt, is often fraught with disappointment and disillusionment.

Still, even so, believing people conduct themselves ethically until proof to the contrary is forthcoming is not living in 'La La Land'. But if it makes you feel good to put it that way ..... :roll: :roll:

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by tapstamp »

Sad situation with this company. The directors had said that all creditors will be paid.

If so then all should come out well - if not then the directors in making this statement have a real problem with ASIC !

Just an observation.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by BigSaint »

tapstamp wrote:Sad situation with this company. The directors had said that all creditors will be paid.

If so then all should come out well - if not then the directors in making this statement have a real problem with ASIC !

Just an observation.
Yes with $3m in assets & $12m in creditors that is going to be difficult.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Global Administrator »

The phrase "Trading Whilst Insolvent" comes to mind ..................

That is one thing, but the owners publicly assuringreaders via Fairfax mass media that "no vendors will lose money" only in very recent weeks, when the parlous accounts were obvious to them, is quite another.

Torsten emailed me asking to post that astounding claim here rght at the onset, and I refused. Torsten has an active account here, and I suggested he post it under his name, and he chose not to do it himself. So he got Michael Eastick to do it instead. :roll:
Global Administrator wrote:
Michael Eastick wrote: Just had a quick chat with Torsten and received the following in an email from him.

..... No vendors will lose any money in this process
Michael, Torsten sent me this hours back, and I asked him or mossgreen to post it here. As I was not going to be stupid enough to post that dream statement with MY name on it. But annoyingly he has instead asked others to do so - he sent it to you and Kevin Morgan and I, instead of posting it OFFICIALLY from mossgreen.

Anyone who believes "No vendors will lose any money in this process" is a gullible fool IMHO. And I suspect some wealthy mossgreen vendors might be chasing Paul Sumner down the track via the courts for that claim. You too now probably, for "publishing" it. :idea:

Danny Jurd from Velvet/Gibbons/Mowbrays promised folks here "any outstanding amounts have now been resolved" which was a total lie of course, and they of course got basically zippo in the final wash - to refresh the minds of the gullible out there -

http://stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=68129
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by gavin-h »

Clive wrote:Still, even so, believing people conduct themselves ethically until proof to the contrary is forthcoming is not living in 'La La Land'. But if it makes you feel good to put it that way ..... :roll: :roll:
Clive,

You can roll your eyes as much as you want, but it's a FACT. In business (any business, especially one like this where times are tough...) it would be naïve in the extreme to believe that.

Experience should tell us all that in extremis business owners/directors will first try to re-assure their customers and putative customers that all is OK, and then will mislead and lie when forced to face up to the pressures of a failing business.

History is littered with examples of this from the largest multi-national corporations to local tuppeny-ha'penny stamp dealers and everything in between.

Those who have learned that will not lose money; those who haven't will be the creditors hit hardest (and undoubtedly those who squeal the loudest).

The way Glen expresses that may be unpalatable to some, but he's right in everything he says on this matter. :idea:

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

This article was in today's "Sydney Morning Herald":

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/celebrity/private-sydney/pri ... 102-h0cp8y

Mossgreen sinks into the red

From their opulent penthouse atop the splendid art-deco Potts Point apartment building, the Macleay Regis, the beautiful Sydney socialite and former Vogue editor-at-large Patricia Coppleson and her accomplished husband, gynaecologist Malcolm, were among the brightest names on the Sydney social scene.

And their fabulous home - bought by Gretel Packer in October for $8.75 million - was stuffed with the fruit borne from a lifetime of collecting art and objet d'art.

Patricia Coppleson was blessed with a "good eye" and saw potential in artists long before most others.

By the early '70s the Coppleson's art collection included works by Charles Blackman, Henri Bastin, Arthur Boyd, Brett Whiteley, Tim Storrier, Fred Williams and Ian Fairweather. Both she and Malcolm supported the Art Gallery of NSW Foundation.

Following Professor Coppleson's death last year, 12 years after his wife died from cancer, much of their vast collection went under the hammer in early December through auction house Mossgreen, raising more than $500,000.

But on Christmas Eve the Coppleson's children, Mark, Victoria and Richard, received some troubling news: Mossgreen had been placed into voluntary administration after being advised that it risked becoming insolvent. The Copplesons are yet to see a cent of the proceeds from the sale.

"I couldn't sleep at all when I heard that," Mark Coppleson told PS.

Mossgreen co-owner and chief executive Paul Sumner was quick to assure the Copplesons, among other clients, their money was safe. He told PS this week: "I want to assure every vendor that they will get their money ... every cent of it."

Sumner had enjoyed a jetset lifestyle, mingling with Mick Fleetwood and even scoring his own "ambassadorship" with luxury carmaker Jaguar. Mossgreen's turnover grew to $39.6 million in 2015. Staff numbers jumped to 55.

However, at a creditors meeting in Melbourne on Thursday it was revealed Mossgreen had crippling debts of $12 million and when asked about the chances of creditors getting their money back, former director Jack Gringlas, owed $6 million, said "it doesn't look good".

Administrators BDO told 50 anxious people there were around 400 creditors and that Mosssgreen had assets of just $3 million.

Sumner told PS he was confident the Copplesons and others would see their money because "I know the true health of the business and its prospects in the future, it is strong ... we grew too large, too quickly and I am the first to admit that."

None of the vendors who had sales through Mossgreen in December have been paid, with Sumner personally contacting each to assure them they would get their money. A total of $5.8 million is owed to vendors, including the Copplesons.

Creditors will vote at a second meeting later this month whether Mossgreen will be liquidated, or be restructured so it can continue.

But Sumner, who's power as a director has been suspended, was adamant to PS: "We are not going into liquidation, despite the vicious and really unfair rumours our rivals are peddling ... and no, Mossgreen is not broke."

Competing with the likes of global auction houses such as Sotheby's, Mossgreen made an audacious play on the Australian market in recent years, including spending around $1 million on its impressive Woollahra showroom which only opened last year. The Queen Street showroom is now closed "indefinitely".
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Global Administrator »

Lakatoi 4 wrote:
But Sumner, who's power as a director has been suspended, was adamant to PS: "We are not going into liquidation, despite the vicious and really unfair rumours our rivals are peddling ... and no, Mossgreen is not broke."
Anyone know what University Sumner got his MBA from? Assets $3m and debts $12m = "not broke".

Nice interesting concept - but will it ever catch on?

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by gregbear61 »

He's been in denial throughout. Those who are owed money by Mossgreen don't have that luxury.

It will be interesting to see what he comes up with re the Deed of Company Arrangement, which will be voted on at the next meeting in February:

When a company is facing insolvency, a deed of company arrangement (DOCA) can help the company avoid liquidation and remain intact or capable of continuing some or most of its business. A deed of company arrangement is a binding agreement between a company and its creditors setting out how the affairs and assets of the company will be dealt with if the company is in danger of becoming insolvent or has entered voluntary administration. Entering into a deed of company arrangement can allow you to avoid the total and immediate winding up of your company and creditors can also get a better return on their investments.

Mossgreen was a profitable business prior to the expansion phase starting with the Leski merger in 2013. In 2011 they made $1.4m profit on turnover of $15.4m.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by BigSaint »

Glen

Mossgreen website does not say where he studied or what qualifications he has:

"Paul Sumner
Chief Executive Officer
Australian & International Art / Single Owner Collections

Image


Paul is a respected specialist in Australian Art, Chinese and Asian Arts and European Design, Antiques and Fine Art. He has over thirty years’ experience working in the art and antiques industry with international and Australian auction houses.

The son of art and antique dealers, Paul’s early years in the industry were spent in the United Kingdom where he began his career, taking his first auction at the age of seventeen. He emigrated to Australia in 1987 to commence work with Sydney auction house Rushton Fine Art and joined Christie’s Australia in 1990, becoming their Sydney Manager in 1992. He was then headhunted by Sotheby’s Australia, and at the age of 32, became their youngest ever Managing Director. Paul held this position until 2001 when he was appointed the Managing Director of Sotheby’s Olympia, London.

Paul returned to Australia in 2004 to establish Mossgreen, which at the time was the first auction house and gallery in the country. After nine years of growth Mossgreen merged with Leski Auctions in 2013 and acquired the former Armadale Picture Theatre in Melbourne where it is currently located. Mossgreen is now Australia’s largest multi-department auction house."


I have always thought that an MBA stood for Master Bull Artist & the recent mutterings attributed to him have only confirmed my opinion.

There is an old saying that goes something like this "If people think you are an idiot, keep your mouth shut lest you prove it to them that you are :!:"

$9m down the tube & everyone will be paid, really :!:

Liquidators found that Velvet were insolvent within 12 months of commencing. So just when did Mossgreen become insolvent :?: Was it before Leski & Gringlas sold out :?:

Will the directors be pursued personally for the debts of the company for knowingly incurring debts on behalf of the company & knowing the company could not pay them :?:

There will be a lot of sleepless nights by all involved while the Administrators examine the financial records.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by mcgooley »

Spoke to Tony from Downies about 20 minutes ago. Apparently, there is a large (?) number of consignments for Mossgreen's slated February auction, and the owners are frantically trying to find a way to get their property back. Tony's been fielding calls most of the day.

The Armadale building has no-one in attendance and contact numbers have been cut off.

I don't know much about how these things work. Tony gave me to understand that until consignments are actually processed for sale they remain the property of their owners.

Is this correct?

Given the little shortfall on the balance sheet, I have misgivings about any consignments making their way back to their rightful owners.

What makes me sick to my stomach is that, in the past six months, I recommended Mossgreen to a couple of collectors wanting to dispose of their collections - and I'm not talking about chicken-feed. One of those collections went to auction in December, and the other was slated for February.

I feel bad enough, I can only imagine how the vendors are feeling.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Kevin Morgan »

mcgooley wrote: The Armadale building has no-one in attendance and contact numbers have been cut off.
Not true, the contact phone number (03 9508 8888) is still connected, however the business is closed for annual leave until next Monday 15th. There is a message on that phoneline to that effect.

I spoke to Nick Anning this morning, and he advised me that he and Gary Watson will be returning to their posts on that date.

He could not tell me more, as he went on leave before all of this erupted.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by GJ50 »

mcgooley wrote: The Armadale building has no-one in attendance and contact numbers have been cut off.
I wouldn't listen to third hand theories.

The Administrator said at the meeting that the staff were on Annual Leave until the 15/1 and the Melbourne and Auckland premises would re-open. Sydney WOULD NOT re-open.

I would expect that the Administrator would know more than a third party.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Global Administrator »

For those who have actually READ this thread, rather than skimmed over the current page, they will discover this post from December 23, clearly showing they were closed until January 15.
Global Administrator wrote:Reading all this at 40,000 feet on Wifi flying from Vienna to Nicosia Cyprus for Xmas.

This below was the footer of a mossgreen staffer email I got only yesterday.

They are closed for 3 weeks now it seems. HOW convenient.

Announce it as you close the doors for 2017 and tell creditors they MUST register by Jan 3. I am a creditor, and have received no notice of any kind.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by billw2 »

Be curious to see how this works out...

A good friend of mine was considering doing a rather large consignment of largely Kangaroos with them but he is, understandably, holding off at the moment.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Global Administrator »

mcgooley wrote:
I don't know much about how these things work. Tony gave me to understand that until consignments are actually processed for sale they remain the property of their owners.

Is this correct?

Given the little shortfall on the balance sheet, I have misgivings about any consignments making their way back to their rightful owners.
Not sure of the LAW, but until SOLD at auction, one would assume they still legally belong to the vendors? "Processed for Auction" has zero relevance I'd say. Maybe there is some modest withdrawal fee owing, but that would be minimal in the bigger scheme of things of losing every cent! :idea: :idea:

A member here, Paul Peters, had a pile of metal lotted but unsold for a Velvet Action here in Sydney last year or so back. He phoned me concerned, and based on what I'd heard on the dealer grapevine about the financial "health" (coff) of Velvet, urged him to instruct Danny Jurd by email and Registered Post, to immediately WITHDRAW it all, and not auction it, but to have it couriered across to me, and I'd then make him a firm cash offer for it all, same day. As I always do.

He rang Danny to do just this and got the Sumner style smoothie PR talk that "all was going to be 100% fine Paul, and to not bother withdrawing the lots."

Jurd was APTA Federal Treasurer at that same time. Amazing. :roll: :roll: :roll:

That collector then lost the lot - $40,000 as can be seen here -

http://stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=68129&start=56

Not as much as the $500,000+ the Vogue Australia Editor is likely to lose via the mossgreen December sale reported in SMH above, but $40,000 is not peanuts for most of us to lose, for our stamps.

I've just arrived today back in Australia from a wintery Europe, and there were already around FORTY sendings of stamps for sale sitting at my PO Box, and about 30 phone messages asking how to get material safely to me.

I am not going into Administration anytime soon. :)

I may not have 55 staff, Directors, financial backers, or offices in Woollahra, NZ and Armadale, but I do make a firm cash offer same day, for everything mailed to me. :lol:

As the old saying goes - "a bird in the hand ................. "

Glen

http://www.glenstephens.com/buying.html
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Global Administrator »

mcgooley wrote:Spoke to Tony from Downies about 20 minutes ago. Apparently, there is a large (?) number of consignments for Mossgreen's slated February auction, and the owners are frantically trying to find a way to get their property back. Tony's been fielding calls most of the day.
Why ANYONE selling stamps would be talking to Downies is the world's great stamp mystery?

Downies are primarily a COIN auction house, as are Nobles.

The only real STAMP public auction house left now, that has regular auctions, and has a global printed catalogue database, is Phoenix Auctions in Melbourne.

Some stamps cannot be sold for same day cash as most do direct to leading dealers, as Public Trustees and some Solicitors dealing with large Estates are often required to use Public Auction, and take their chances. Even if that path takes 6 months longer, and gets the beneficences far less than a cash deal, which is VERY often the case after the masses of fees are carved away from the stamps.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by bazza4338 »

General rules for conducting an auction of goods (chattel auction)

https://www.qld.gov.au/law/laws-regulated-industries-and-acc ... an-auction

This seems to suggest that the goods are owned by the seller and not the Auction House - they are the agent and not the owner.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Kevin Morgan »

bazza4338 wrote:General rules for conducting an auction of goods (chattel auction)

https://www.qld.gov.au/law/laws-regulated-industries-and-acc ... an-auction

This seems to suggest that the goods are owned by the seller and not the Auction House - they are the agent and not the owner.

Image
Yes, but that is Queensland Law, where Auctioneers are still required to be Licensed. In Victoria from 1/1/2000 all licences were cancelled except for Real Estate.

In other words there is no Government control over Auctions whatsoever.

Similarly in NSW
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by BigSaint »

At Brighton Philatelic Society tonight I was talking to one of our members who is owed a four figure sum by Mossgreen. Apparently this dates back to November 2017 which appears not to be that long overdue. He had no personal knowledge of any other unpaid vendors. He has unsold lots from that auction & lots consigned to coming auctions and will be there when Mossgreen opens after the holiday break to collect them.

Another person who claims to be "in the know" maintained that it was the poor performance of the "Art" & "Motor Vehicles" that dragged Mossgreen down. There was a the suggestion of minimum price guarantees which cost Mossgreen plenty when items did not sell or achieve the minimum price guaranteed. Was the Bib Stillwell's D-Type Jaguar that I pictured earlier that did not sell, which had an estimate of $7m - $8m, an item that had a minimum price guarantee :?:

Guess we won't how much of this true until the administrators have gone through the books with a fine tooth comb.

Brad :twisted:
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by mikeg »

It would be useful to see a copy of their consignment sheet which I assume any one who gave them material has a copy of :?:

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Global Administrator »

mikeg wrote:It would be useful to see a copy of their consignment sheet which I assume any one who gave them material has a copy of :?:
Certainly the website says precious little about seller terms -

http://www.mossgreen.com.au/content/selling-at-auction/

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Global Administrator wrote:
mikeg wrote:It would be useful to see a copy of their consignment sheet which I assume any one who gave them material has a copy of :?:
Certainly the website says precious little about seller terms -

http://www.mossgreen.com.au/content/selling-at-auction/
Similarly, their printed auction catalogues have nothing specific about retaining or returning material submitted or unsold at auction. The only mention of legality is in their Terms and Coditions of Sale which state "These Terms of Sale shall be governed by and interpreted in accordance with the laws of the State of Victoria".

So basically its whatever is in the legislation.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by bazza4338 »

I'll post this somewhat lengthy Auction "Terms and Conditions" from Pickles Auctions, Victoria - an Auctioneer of Motor Vehicles, Salvage, Industrial and General Goods (https://www.pickles.com.au/) - to give some insight into some likely Terms and Conditions for Stamp Auctions.

As advised by Kevin, there seems to be no Victorian State legislation regarding General Auction terms, ownership of goods etc. that I can quickly find.

Here is the link .....

https://www.pickles.com.au/about/terms-and-conditions/au/vic

Victoria - Terms and Conditions
1. Definitions
In these terms and conditions, unless the context otherwise requires or implies:

Auctioneer means PICKLES AUCTIONS PTY LTD (ACN 003 417 650) trading as PICKLES AUCTIONS.
Auction Sale means the auction of all of the Lots listed in a Catalogue.
Auction Site means premises at which an Auction Sale is conducted.
Australian Consumer Law means the Australian Consumer Law set out in Schedule Two of the Competition and Consumer Act 2010 (Cth).
Catalogue means a list containing some or all of the Lots available and provided by the Auctioneer from time to time.
GST means the goods and service tax as imposed by the GST Act.
GST Act means A New Tax System (Goods and Services Tax) Act 1999 (Cth).
Loss means any claim, delay, loss, liability, damage, expense, penalty, outgoing or cost whatsoever and however arising, whether present, unascertained, immediate, future or contingent and includes indirect and consequential losses.
Lot means any goods available for purchase at the Auction Sale.
Motor Vehicle means a vehicle that is built to be propelled by a motor that forms part of the vehicle.
Non PDH Goods means any goods which are not PDH Goods.
OH&S Legislation means the Occupational Health & Safety Act, Regulations and codes of practice which govern occupational health and safety of workers and workplaces in the State in which the Auction Sale takes place.
PDH Goods means goods which, for the purposes of section 3(1) of the Australian Consumer Law, are a kind ordinarily acquired for personal, domestic or household use or consumption.
Purchaser means the successful bidder for a Lot, as determined by the Auctioneer.
Purchase Price means the highest bid accepted by the Auctioneer for a Lot.
Seller means the owner of a Lot or the person authorising the Auctioneer to sell that Lot on the owner’s behalf.
Taxable Supply has the meaning given to that term by the GST Law.
Tax Invoice means a tax invoice as defined in the GST Act.

2. Auction Contract Particulars

(a) The Auctioneer is acting as an agent for the Seller.
(b) The sale contract for the purchase of a Lot is made directly between the Seller and the Purchaser.
(c) The sale book, the Purchaser’s identification form and these terms and conditions constitute the entire relationship between the Auctioneer, the Seller and the Purchaser.
(d) If any dispute arises in relation to a Lot, the dispute is between the Purchaser and the Seller. The Purchaser agrees to release the Auctioneer from any claim, action, Tribunal or court proceeding in respect of that Lot and to indemnify the Auctioneer, on a full indemnity basis, from all liability, including all costs incurred by it in relation to any such claim.


3. Bidding for a Lot at the Auction
(a) All bidders must be 18 years of age or older.
(b) All bidders, except those using Pickles Live Bidding (which is governed by clause 4), must register to bid at the Auction Sale by providing the Auctioneer with their full name and residential address and evidence of identification. Bidders who use Pickles Live Bidding register upon signing in to the Pickles Live Bidding Site.
(c) All Lots are bidded on and purchased on an ‘as is, where is’ basis.
(d) Upon registration bidders agree to be bound by these Terms and Conditions.
(e) If a bidder does not register, the Auctioneer may choose not to accept their bid.
(f) A bidder will be deemed to be bidding on their own behalf unless prior to the sale it disclosed to the Auctioneer that it will be bidding as agent on behalf of a principal and has supplied a copy of a written authority to that effect and any other documents that the Auctioneer requires.
(g) Subject to any reserve price, and at the, sole discretion of the Auctioneer, the highest bidder who is not in breach of these Terms and Conditions or any other terms set out by the Auctioneer, will be the Purchaser.
(h) The entry of the Purchaser’s details in the sale book or record by the Auctioneer or its clerk is binding on the Purchaser, and is prima facie evidence that the Purchaser has agreed to purchase the Lot.


4. Pickles Live and Pickles Online Bidding
(a) Bidders bidding via Pickles Live and Pickles Online Bidding:

(i) acknowledge that the Auctioneer is not responsible for bids that were not processed due to technical problems and/or delays;

(i) agree that they will not make any claims against the Auctioneer from any loss or damage arising as a result of the use of the Pickles Live and Pickles Online Bidding, including but not limited to, losses resulting from errors or problems on the internet, service or any issues beyond the Auctioneers' control or losses arising from Purchaser's use of or inability to use the service; and

(iii) acknowledge that the Auctioneer cannot prevent inappropriate use of the system or bidder information stored in the system.


5. Reserve Prices and Seller’s bids

(a) The auction of a Lot may be subject to a reserve price specified to the Auctioneer by the Seller.
(b) The Seller reserves its right to bid on a Lot.
(c) Subject to clause 5(d), the Auctioneer may bid for the Seller or for any prospective purchaser with or without disclosure and any such bid, if the highest bid, will be sufficiently evidenced if recorded in the Auctioneer’s sale book.
(d) In respect of an auction of a Motor Vehicle in VIC and QLD, the Auctioneer may only make a bid on behalf of the Seller if:

(i) before any bidding starts, the Auctioneer orally declares at the auction of a Lot that the Auctioneer may make a bid on behalf of the Seller; and

(ii) immediately before, or in the process of, making the bid, the Auctioneer states that the bid is being made on behalf of the Seller.


6. Risk Falls With The Hammer

(a) The Purchaser assumes all risk in relation to a Lot from the fall of the hammer in respect of that Lot, and neither the Auctioneer nor the Seller will be accountable for any deficiency damage or loss to the Lot which may arise, occur, or become apparent thereafter.
(b) The Purchaser agrees to release and indemnify the Auctioneer and Seller from any claim, action, Tribunal or court proceeding in respect of any such deficiency or damage and to indemnify the Auctioneer, on a full indemnity basis, from all liability, including all costs incurred by it in relation to any such claim.


7. Payment upon completion of sale

(a) The Purchaser is not entitled to remove the Lot from the Auction Site until the Purchase Price has been paid in full.
(b) The Purchaser of a Lot must pay the Purchase Price, or a deposit as agreed by the Auctioneer, to the Auctioneer upon completion of the Auction Sale.
(c) If the Purchaser pays a deposit, it must pay the balance of the Purchase Price within 1 day of completion of the Auction Sale or as otherwise specified by the Auctioneer.
(d) Payment of the above must be in cash unless otherwise agreed by the Auctioneer. If payment is made by cheque and the cheque is dishonoured, the Purchaser will be deemed to be in fundamental breach of its obligations pursuant to these Terms and Conditions.
(e) In the event of late payment the Auctioneer reserves the right to charge the Purchaser interest which will accrue at the rate of the lower of 2% of the Purchase Price per month or the highest rate allowed by law.


8. Removal of a Lot from the Auction Site

(a) No Lot may be removed by the Seller during the Auction Sale without the express consent of the Auctioneer.
(b) The Auction Sale will be deemed complete after all of the Lots listed in the auction catalogue have auctioned, irrespective of whether or not all Lots have been sold.
(c) Subject to clause 13 the Purchaser must remove the Lot from the Auction Site immediately after the completion of the Auction Sale or as otherwise specified by the Auctioneer, but no later than one day after the completion of the Auction Sale.
(d) If the Purchaser does not immediately remove the Lot, the Auctioneer or Seller may remove the Lot from the Auction Site and store it in an alternate location. The Purchaser is required to pay all reasonable costs incurred by the Auctioneer or the Seller in relation to the relocation and storage prior to removing the Lot.
(e) The Purchaser will be strictly liable for any damage to the Auction Site, or other goods, caused by the removal of any Lot from the Auction Site.


9. Title of the Lot

(a) The Seller represents and warrants to the Purchaser and the Auctioneer that:

(i) it has good title to the Lot;

(ii) it has proper authority to sell the Lot; and

(iii) there are no undisclosed encumbrances, liens or security interests (as defined in the Personal Property Securities Act 2010 (Cth)) over the Lot;
at the time of delivery of a Lot.

(b) The Seller acknowledges that the Auctioneer relies on this representation and warranty in auctioning the Lot on behalf of the Seller.
(c) The Purchaser acknowledges that it is its responsibility to conduct a search of the Register of Encumbered Vehicles or the Personal Property Securities Register (as applicable) and that search must be undertaken no earlier than the day prior to the day it bids for the Lot to ensure that there is no undisclosed encumbrance over the Lot.
(d) Except in respect of the sale of Motor Vehicles in QLD where the Seller is not a motor dealer or other auctioneer, the Purchaser acknowledges that such guarantee is given by the Seller and not by the Auctioneer.
(e) In respect of the sale of Motor Vehicles in QLD where the Seller is not a motor dealer or other auctioneer, the Auctioneer provides guarantee of title at the time that the property passes to the Purchaser. This guarantee does not pass or extend to any third parties or to any subsequent purchaser or successor in title.
(f) If, subsequent to the fall of the hammer but before the delivery of a Lot, the Auctioneer becomes aware that the Seller does not have good title to the Lot sold, it has the discretion to cancel the sale of that Lot and refund to the Purchaser any moneys paid. The Purchaser agrees that it will not make a claim against the Auctioneer in such an instance. If it does so, it agrees to indemnify the Auctioneer from any, and all, costs, on a full indemnity basis that the Auctioneer incurs as a result.
(g) Title in any Lot does not pass until the Purchase Price (and if applicable, any other Governmental charges or fees payable pursuant to these Terms and Conditions, including, but not limited to any taxes, levies, duties, imposts, deductions and charges) has been paid in full.
(h) Any guarantee made by the Seller or Auctioneer under this clause 9 is in addition to and is not intended to replace or detract from any rights or remedies a Purchaser may have under the Australian Consumer Law or any other applicable laws.


10. Rights Reserved

(a) The Auctioneer and/or Seller reserve their right to withdraw any Lot or Lots listed in the Catalogue from the Auction Sale;
(b) The Auctioneer reserves its rights:

(i) to offer for sale part only of any Lot listed in a Catalogue;

(ii) to offer two or more separate Lots listed in a Catalogue for sale together as one Lot and if that Lot is not sold, to offer those Lots for auction as separate Lots;

(iii) to refuse any person admission to, or eject them from the Auction Site;

(iv) to not disclose the existence and/or quantum of the reserve price (if any) of a Lot prior to the close of bidding or withdrawal of the Lot;

(v) in the event that any Purchaser successfully bids for more than one Lot at the Auction Sale:
(A) to allocate any monies received from that Purchaser between the Lots as it sees fit; and
(B) to regard the sale of multiple Lots as interdependent and treat default under a contract for either Lot as default under all such contracts;

(vi) to (whether or not a Lot has been knocked down as sold) in its sole discretion resubmit it for sale by auction at the Auction Sale in progress or as soon as practicable thereafter; and

(vii) to offer and sell a Lot that is not sold at an Auction Sale immediately thereafter by private agreement. Any such private agreement is also subject to these conditions unless otherwise agreed in writing by the Auctioneer.


11. Warranties and consumer guarantees

(a) The Purchaser acknowledges that the consumer guarantees stipulated in sections 54, 55, 56, 57, 58 and 59 of the Australian Consumer Law do not apply to the sale of goods by auction. As a result, the Auctioneer and the Seller make no warranties and give no guarantees regarding:

(i) the goods being of acceptable quality;

(ii) the goods being fit for any disclosed purpose or any purpose for which the supplier represents they are fit;

(iii) the goods matching their description or corresponding to any sample or demonstration model;

(iv) the availability of repairs or spare parts for the goods; or

(v) express warranties in respect of the goods made by the manufacturer being complied with

(b) If the goods forming part of a Lot are:

(i) PDH Goods; or

(ii) Non PDH Goods and the purchase price of the Lot is $40,000 or less (or such other amount specified in or prescribed under section 3 of the Australian Consumer Law from time to time);
then certain guarantees may apply in respect such goods purchased by that Purchaser including (without limitation):

(iii) guarantees as to title to the Lot passing to the Purchaser;

(iv) guarantees regarding the Purchaser having undisturbed possession of the Lot; and

(v) guarantees regarding the Lot being free from undisclosed encumbrances.


(c) Nothing in this clause 11 or clause 12 (or any other provision of these Terms and Conditions) should be interpreted as attempting to exclude, restrict or modify the application of any applicable provisions of the Australian Consumer Law, or the liability of the Auctioneer or the Seller for failing to comply with these provisions of the Australian Consumer Law or the right of a consumer to make a claim in respect of these guarantees or under any other provision of the Australian Consumer Law.


12. Limitation of liability

Where the Purchaser suffers Loss as a result of its purchase of any Lot and:


(a) the goods forming part of a Lot are Non PDH Goods with a purchase price of more than $40,000; or
(b) the Purchaser suffers the Loss other than as a result of any breach by the Seller or the Auctioneer of the consumer guarantee or other similar provision of the Australian Consumer Law;
then, subject to any other laws which may apply and may not be excluded, or in respect of which liability cannot be limited by these Terms and Conditions, the Seller and the Auctioneer will not be liable for any such Loss suffered by the Purchaser. This clause applies even if the Seller and/or the Auctioneer knew or ought to have known that the relevant Loss would be suffered.


13. Finance

The Purchaser expressly acknowledges and warrants to the Auctioneer and to the Seller that prior to making an offer for a Lot or successfully negotiating the purchase of a Lot by private agreement, that it has the either cash resources immediately available to complete the purchase or has obtained approval for financial assistance on reasonable terms which are satisfactory to the Purchaser.


14. Default

(a) If the Purchaser is in default of any of its obligations under these Terms and Conditions or any interdependent or separate agreement with the Auctioneer or Seller:

(i) The Auctioneer and/or the Seller may:
(A) recover damages from the Purchaser;
(B) without notice to the Purchaser resell the Lot or Lots in any manner upon such terms and conditions as it may think proper and recover all losses, costs and expenses incurred from any such resale from the Purchaser by way of damages, whether or not that amount exceeds the Purchase Price that was to be paid by the Purchaser for the Lot or Lots (and including all legal costs) and the amount of any commission lost on the original sale as the result of the Purchaser’s default and the cost of advertising in respect of any such resale; and
(C) forfeit any monies paid by the Purchaser in consideration for a Lot and/or Lots.

(b) If the Seller defaults on the delivery of a Lot or part thereof, the Seller must refund any money which the Purchaser had paid to the Auctioneer on account of its purchase.


15. General Law

(a) The proper law governing the interpretation and enforcement of these conditions including all substantive rights and obligations hereunder and the manner mode and method of performance is the law of the State in which the Auction took place.
(b) All rights and remedies available to the parties against each other under the general law are subject to these conditions.
(c) If any of the conditions in these Terms and Conditions are to any extent held by any court of competent jurisdiction to be invalid or unenforceable, the remaining conditions will not be affected thereby, and will remain in full force and effect.
(d) To the extent that they are applicable, the requirements stipulated in section 41 of Part 3 of the Motor Car Traders Act 1986 (Vic) and prescribed particulars in Schedule 3 of the Motor Car Traders Regulations 1998 are incorporated into these terms and conditions and to the extent that those provisions are inconsistent with these terms and conditions, the former will prevail. Please note that this part does not apply to sales of Motor Vehicles previously belonging to a government department.


16. Further special conditions

The Auctioneer may prior to the commencement, or during an Auction Sale announce further special conditions applying to that Auction Sale or a particular item put up for auction in which event such further special condition or conditions will be deemed to be incorporated into and form part of these conditions.


17. Goods and services tax (GST)

(a) The Seller will elect whether the Purchase Price of the goods is inclusive or exclusive of GST. If applicable, GST will be added to all charges and fees payable.
(b) If the whole or any part of the Purchase Price of a Lot is consideration for a taxable supply, the Purchaser must pay to the Seller via the Auctioneer, an amount equal to the GST amount applicable to the Purchase Price. The Auctioneer will provide to the Purchaser (if applicable) a Tax Invoice at that time.


18. Auction of Used Motor Vehicles and other goods

(a) The Purchaser acknowledges that:


(i) the Auctioneer is unable to, and does not carry out an inspection of the Lots offered for sale;
(ii) the information that the Auctioneer has in relation to each Lot is information provided to the Auctioneer by the Seller of each Lot (including, in the case of Motor Vehicles, any inspection, condition, pre-auction reports or other information as to the condition of the Motor Vehicle);
(iii) the information provided by the Seller in relation to each Lot is not guaranteed by the Auctioneer;
(iv) it must satisfy itself as to the condition, description and state of repair of the Lot prior to the Auction Sale;
(v) in the case of Motor Vehicles, it may not rely on the category in which a Motor Vehicle is sold as a representation as to the condition or registrability of the Motor Vehicle; and it is the Purchaser’s responsibility to check the Written Off Vehicles Register prior to an Auction Sale to satisfy itself as to the registrability of the Motor Vehicle; and
(vi) if a dispute arises in relation to this information, the Purchaser will exclude and indemnify the Auctioneer from any such dispute (including costs on a full indemnity basis by any costs incurred by the Auctioneer in relation to such dispute).


19. Auction of Used Plant and Equipment

The Purchaser acknowledges that:


(a) The OH&S Legislation imposes obligations in respect of safety for workers arising out of the design manufacture and supply of Plant and Equipment ("plant") for use in a workplace.
(b) The Auctioneer and the Vendor have warned prospective purchasers that no plant is being offered for sale for use in any workplace and it is the Purchaser's or user's responsibility to ensure that if the plant is to be so used it is brought to a standard necessary to comply with the OH&S Legislation before being used for this purpose and testing and examination is carried out to ensure it is safe and fit for use in a workplace.
(c) In so far as it is readily available, information prepared by the designer or manufacturer of the plant and any records kept by previous owners of the plant that were required to be kept under the OH&S Legislation ("the information and/or records") is made available for inspection to prospective purchasers and will be provided to the Purchaser.
(d) Where no such information and/or records are available, no liability for the absence of same is assumed by the Auctioneer and/or the Vendor.
(e) It is the responsibility of the Purchaser to ensure that the Purchaser seek to ascertain the information and/or records.
(f) Safety inspections of all plant purchased at auction must be performed by the Purchaser as breaches of the OH&S Legislation carry very heavy penalties in the interest of health and safety for workers.



20. Processing Fees
Sunshine
Tullamarine (Salvage)
Tullamarine (Industrial)


Agent of the Vendor:

PICKLES AUCTIONS PTY LIMITED
TRADING AS
PICKLES AUCTIONS
43-45 McIntyre Road
Sunshine VIC 3020
Tel. 03 9009 3111
Fax 03 9009 3100

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by GJ50 »

billw2 wrote:Be curious to see how this works out...

A good friend of mine was considering doing a rather large consignment of largely Kangaroos with them but he is, understandably, holding off at the moment.
I doubt the company will survive and will be split up. Why ?

Well, this different to a company in Voluntary Administration with stock it owns. At the time of Administration such a company has all its debts frozen. However it is able to sell what stock it has and in fact purchase new stock. Thus has a good opportunity to trade itself out of Administration, ie Orotons.

What with Mossgreen ?
Has nil or no stock,
Heaps of debt

Expect many vendors to retrieve their future lots

Little or no new material - who would leave material with them now !

So, 55 employees, no stock, no income - looks very doubtful.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by bazza4338 »

Mossgreen Terms and Conditions

Image

https://www.mossgreen.com.au/content/terms-and-conditions/


Terms and Conditions

For Terms & Conditions specific to Philatelic / Numismatic auctions, please click here. (See below)

The terms and conditions of sale listed here contain the policies of Mossgreen Pty Ltd. They are the terms on which Mossgreen Pty Ltd and the Seller contract with the Buyer. They may be amended by printed Saleroom Notices or oral announcements made before and during the sale. By bidding at auction you agree to be bound by these terms.

1. Background to the Terms used in these Conditions
The conditions that are listed below contain terms that are used regularly and may need explanation. They are as follows:

“the Buyer”
means the person with the highest bid accepted by the Auctioneer.
“the Lot”
means any item depicted within the sale for auction and in particular the item or items described against any lot number in the catalogue.
“the Hammer price”
means the amount of the highest bid accepted by the auctioneer in relation to a lot.
“the Buyers Premium”
means the charge payable by the Buyer to the auction house as a percentage of the hammer price.
“the Reserve”
means the lowest amount at which Mossgreen has agreed with the Seller that the lot can be sold.
“Forgery”
means an item constituting an imitation originally conceived and executed as a whole, with a fraudulent intention to deceive as to authorship, origin, age, period, culture or source, where the correct description as to such matters is not reflected by the description in the catalogue. Accordingly no lot shall be capable of being a forgery by reason of any damage or restoration work of any kind (Including re-painting).
“the insured value”
means the amount that Mossgreen in its absolute discretion from time to time shall consider the value for which a lot should be covered for insurance (whether or not insurance is arranged by Mossgreen).
All values expressed in Mossgreen Pty Ltd catalogues (in any format) are in Australian Dollars (AU$). All bids, “hammer price”, “reserves”, “Buyers Premium” and other expressions of value are understood by all parties to be in Australian Dollars (AU$) unless otherwise specified.

2. Mossgreen Auctions as Agent
Except as otherwise stated Mossgreen Pty Ltd acts as agent for the Seller.

The contract for the sale of the property is therefore made between the Seller and the Buyer.

3. Before the Sale
Examination of Property
Prospective Buyers are strongly advised to examine in person any property in which they are interested before the Auction takes place. Neither Mossgreen nor the Seller provides any guarantee in relation to the nature of the property apart from the Limited warranty in the paragraph below.

The property is otherwise sold “AS IS”

Catalogue and Other Descriptions
All statements by Mossgreen in the catalogue entry for the property or in the condition report, or made orally or in writing elsewhere, are statements of opinion and are not to be relied upon as statements of fact. Such statements do not constitute a representation, warranty or assumption of liability by Mossgreen of any kind. References in the catalogue entry to the condition report to damage or restoration are for guidance only and should be evaluated by personal inspection by the bidder or a knowledgeable representative. The absence of such a reference does not imply that an item is free from defects or restoration, nor does a reference to particular defects imply the absence of any others. Estimates of the selling price should not be relied on as a statement that this is the price at which the item will sell or it’s value for any other purpose. Neither Mossgreen nor The Seller is responsible for any errors or omissions in the catalogue or any supplemental material.

Images are measured height by width (sight size). Illustrations are provided only as a guide and should not be relied upon as a true representation of colour or condition. Images are not shown at a standard scale. Mention is rarely made of frames (which may be provided as supplementary images on the website) which do not form part of the lot as described in the printed catalogue.

An item bought “on Extension” must be paid for in full before it will be released to the purchaser or his/her agreed expertising committee or specialist. Payments received for such items will be held “in trust” for up to 90 days or earlier, if the issue of authenticity has been resolved more quickly. Extensions must be requested before the auction.

Foreign buyers should note that all transactions are in Australian dollars so there may be a small exchange rate risk. The costs associated with acquiring a good certificate will be carried by the purchaser. If the item turns out to be forged or otherwise incorrectly described, all reasonable costs will be borne by the vendor.

Buyers Responsibility
All property is sold “as is” without representation or warranty of any kind by Mossgreen or the Seller. Buyers are responsible for satisfying themselves concerning the condition of the property and the matters referred to in the catalogue by requesting a condition report.

No lot to be rejected if, subsequent to the sale, it has been immersed in liquid or treated by any other process unless the Auctioneer’s permission to subject the lot to such immersion or treatment has first been obtained in writing.

4. At the Sale
Refusal of Admission
Mossgreen reserves the right at our complete discretion to refuse admission to the auction premises or participation in any auction and to reject any bid.

Registration Before Bidding
Any prospective new buyer must complete and sign a registration form and provide photo identification before bidding. Mossgreen may request bank, trade or other financial references to substantiate this registration.

Bidding as a Principal
When making a bid, a bidder is accepting personal liability to pay the purchase price including the buyers premium and all applicable taxes, plus all other applicable charges, unless it has been explicitly agreed in writing with Mossgreen before the commencement of the sale that the bidder is acting as agent on behalf of an identified third party acceptable to Mossgreen and that Mossgreen will only look to the principal for payment.

International Registrations
All International clients not known to Mossgreen will be required to scan or fax through an accredited form of photo identification and pay a deposit at our discretion in cleared funds into Mossgreen’s account at least 24 hours before the commencement of the auction. Bids will not be accepted without this deposit. Mossgreen also reserves the right to request any additional forms of identification prior to registering an overseas bid.

This deposit can be made using a credit card, however the balance of any purchase price in excess of $5,000 can not be charged to this card without prior arrangement.

This deposit is redeemable against any auction purchase.

Absentee Bids
Mossgreen will use reasonable efforts to execute written bids delivered to us AT LEAST 24 Hours before the sale for the convenience of those clients who are unable to attend the auction in person. If we receive identical written bids on a particular lot, and at the auction these are the highest bids on that lot, then the lot will be sold to the person whose written bid was received and accepted first. Execution of written bids is a free service undertaken subject to other commitments at the time of the sale and we do not accept liability for failing to execute a written bid or for errors or omissions which may arise. It is the bidder’s responsibility to check with Mossgreen after the auction if they were successful. Unlimited or “Buy” bids will not be accepted.

Telephone Bids
Priority will be given to overseas and interstate bidders. Please refer to the catalogue for the Telephone Bids form. Arrangements for this service must be confirmed AT LEAST 24 HOURS PRIOR to the auction commencing. Mossgreen accepts no responsibility whatsoever for any errors or failure to execute bids. In telephone bidding the buyer agrees to be bound by all terms and conditions listed here and accepts that Mossgreen cannot be held responsible for any miscommunications in the process. The success of telephone bidding cannot be guaranteed due to circumstances that are unforeseen. Buyers should be aware of the risk and accept the consequences should contact be unsuccessful at the time of Auction. You must advise Mossgreen of the lots in question and you will be assumed to be a buyer at the minimum price of 75% of estimate (ie. reserve) for all such lots. Mossgreen will advise Telephone Bidders who have registered at least 24 hours before the auction of any relevant changes to descriptions, withdrawals or any other sale room notices.

Online Bidding
Mossgreen offers an online bidding service. When bidding online the buyer agrees to be bound by all terms and conditions listed here by Mossgreen.

Mossgreen accepts no responsibility for any errors, failure to execute bids or any other miscommunications regarding this process. It is the online bidder’s responsibility to ensure the accuracy of the relevant information regarding bids, lot numbers and contact details.

Reserves
Unless otherwise indicated, all lots are offered subject to a reserve, which is the confidential minimum price below which the Lot will not be sold. The reserve will not exceed the low estimate printed in the catalogue. The auctioneer may open the bidding on any Lot below the reserve by placing a bid on behalf of the Seller. The auctioneer may continue to bid on behalf of seller up to the amount of the reserve, either by placing consecutive bids or by placing bids in response to other bidders.

Auctioneers Discretion
The Auctioneer has the right at his absolute and sole discretion to refuse any bid, to advance the bidding in such a manner as he may decide, to withdraw or divide any lot, to combine any two or more lots and, in the case or error or dispute and whether during or after the sale, to determine the successful bidder, to continue the bidding, to cancel the sale or to reoffer and resell the item in dispute. If any dispute arises after the sale, then Mossgreen’s sale record is conclusive.

Successful Bid and Passing of Risk
Subject to the auctioneer’s discretion, the highest bidder accepted by the auctioneer will be the buyer and the striking of his hammer marks the acceptance of the highest bid and the conclusion of a contract for sale between the Seller and the Buyer. Risk and responsibility for the lot (including frames or glass where relevant) passes immediately to the Buyer.

Indicative Bidding Steps, etc.
Mossgreen reserves the right to refuse any bid, withdraw any lot from sale, to place a reserve on any lot and to advance the bidding according to the following:

Increment Amount Dollar Range
$20 $0–$500
$50 $500–$1,000
$100 $1,000–$2,000
$200 $2,000–$5,000
$500 $5,000–$10,000
$1,000 $10,000–$20,000
$2,000 $20,000–$50,000
$5,000 $50,000 – $100,000
$10,000 $100,000–$200,000
$20,000 $200,000–$500,000
$50,000 $500,000–$1,000,000
Absentee bids must follow these increments and any bids that don’t follow the steps will be rounded up to the nearest acceptable bid.

5. After the Sale
Buyers Premium
In addition to the hammer price, the buyer agrees to pay to Mossgreen the buyers premium. The buyer’s premium is 24% of the hammer price plus GST. (Goods and Services Tax) where applicable.

Payment and Passing of Title
The buyer must pay the full amount due (comprising the hammer price, buyers premium and any applicable taxes and GST) not later than 5 days after the auction date.

The buyer will not acquire title for the lot until Mossgreen receives full payment in cleared funds, and no goods under any circumstances will be released without confirmation of cleared funds received. This applies even if the buyer wishes to send items interstate or overseas.

Payment can be made by direct transfer, cash (not exceeding $10,000AUD, if wishing to pay more than $10,000AUD then this must be deposited directly into a Bank of Melbourne / St George branch and bank receipt supplied) and EFTPOS (please check the daily limit). Payments can also be made by credit card in person with a 1.3% (+GST) merchant fee for Visa and Mastercard and 2.85% (+GST) for American Express. Invoices that are in excess of $5,000 and where the card holder is not present, can not be charged to a credit card without prior arrangement. Personal cheques are accepted, but funds must be cleared before goods will be released. Bank cheques are subject to three days clearance.

The buyer is responsible for any bank fees and charges applicable for the transfer of funds into Mossgreen’s account.

Collection of Purchases & Insurance
Mossgreen is entitled to retain items sold until all amounts due to us have been received in full in good cleared funds. Subject to this, the Buyer shall collect purchased lots within 5 days from the date of the sale unless otherwise agreed in writing between Mossgreen and the Buyer.

At the fall of the hammer, insurance is the responsibility of the purchaser.

Packing, Handling and Shipping
Mossgreen will be able to suggest removals companies that the buyer can use but takes no responsibility whatsoever for the actions of any recommended third party. Mossgreen can pack and handle goods purchased at the auction by agreement and a charge will made for this service. All packing, shipping, insurance, postage & associated charges will be borne by the purchaser.

Cultural Heritage Export Licences
Unless otherwise agreed by us in writing, the fact that the buyer wishes to apply for an export licence does not affect his or her obligation to make full payment immediately, nor our right to charge interest or storage charges on late payment. It is the Buyer’s responsibility to check Australia’s Protection of Moveable Cultural Heritage Act 1986 before purchase. If the Buyer requests Mossgreen to apply for an export licence then we shall be entitled to charge a fee for this service. We shall not be obliged to rescind a sale nor to refund any interest or other expenses incurred by the Buyer where payment is made by the Buyer in circumstances where an export licence is not granted.

Remedies for Non-Payment
If the Buyer fails to make full payment immediately, Mossgreen is entitled to exercise one or more of the following rights or remedies (in addition to asserting any other rights or remedies available under the law)

to charge interest at such a rate as we shall reasonably decide.
to hold the defaulting Buyer liable for the total amount due and to commence legal proceedings for it’s recovery along with interest, legal fees and costs to the fullest extent permitted under applicable law.
to cancel the sale.
to resell the property publicly or privately on such terms as we see fit.
to pay the Seller an amount up to the net proceeds payable in respect of the amount bid by the defaulting Buyer. In these circumstances the defaulting Buyer can have no claim upon Mossgreen in the event that the item(s) are sold for an amount greater than the original invoiced amount.
to set off against any amounts which Mossgreen may owe the Buyer in any other transactions, the outstanding amount remaining unpaid by the Buyer.
where several amounts are owed by the Buyer to us, in respect of different transactions, to apply any amount paid to discharge any amount owed in respect of any particular transaction, whether or not the Buyer so directs.
to reject at any future auction any bids made by or on behalf of the Buyer or to obtain a deposit from the Buyer prior to accepting any bids.
to exercise all the rights and remedies of a person holding security over any property in our possession owned by the Buyer whether by way of pledge, security interest or in any other way, to the fullest extent permitted by the law of the place where such property is located. The Buyer will be deemed to have been granted such security to us and we may retain such property as collateral security for such Buyer’s obligations to us.
to take such other action as Mossgreen deem necessary or appropriate
If we do sell the property under paragraph (iv), then the defaulting Buyer shall be liable for payment of any deficiency between the total amount originally due to us and the price obtained upon reselling as well as for all costs, expenses, damages, legal fees and commissions and premiums of whatever kinds associated with both sales or otherwise arising from the default.

If we pay any amount to the Seller under paragraph (v) the Buyer acknowledges that Mossgreen shall have all of the rights of the Seller, however arising, to pursue the Buyer for such amount.

Failure to Collect Purchases
Where purchases are not collected within 48 hours from the sale date, whether or not payment has been made, we shall be permitted to remove the property to a warehouse at the buyer’s expense, and only release the items after payment in full has been made of removal, storage handling, insurance and any other costs incurred, together with payment of all other amounts due to us.

6. Extent of Mossgreen Liability
Mossgreen agrees to refund the purchase price in the circumstances of the Limited Warranty set out in paragraph 7 below. Apart from that, neither the Seller nor we, nor any of our employees or agents are responsible for the correctness of any statement of whatever kind concerning any lot, whether written or oral, nor for any other errors or omissions in description or for any faults or defects in any lots. Except as stated in paragraph 7 below, neither the Seller ourselves, our officers, agents or employees give any representation warranty or guarantee or assume any liability of any kind in respect of any lot with regard to merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, description, size, quality, condition, attribution, authenticity, rarity, importance, medium, provenance, exhibition history, literature or historical relevance. Except as required by local law any warranty of any kind is excluded by this paragraph.

7. limited Warranty
Subject to the terms and conditions of this paragraph, the Seller warrants for the period of thirty days from the date of the sale that any property described in this catalogue (noting such description may be amended by any saleroom notice or announcement) which is stated without qualification to be the work of a named author or authorship is authentic and not a forgery. The term “Author” or “authorship” refers to the creator of the property or to the period, culture, source, or origin as the case may be, with which the creation of such property is identified in the catalogue.

The warranty is subject to the following:

it does not apply where a) the catalogue description or saleroom notice corresponded to the generally accepted opinion of scholars and experts at the date of the sale or fairly indicated that there was a conflict of opinions, or b) correct identification of a lot can be demonstrated only by means of a scientific process not generally accepted for use until after publication of the catalogue or a process which at the date of the publication of the catalogue was unreasonably expensive or impractical or likely to have caused damage to the property.
the benefits of the warranty are not assignable and shall apply only to the original buyer of the lot as shown on the invoice originally issued by Mossgreen when the lot was sold at Auction.
the Original Buyer must have remained the owner of the lot without disposing of any interest in it to any third party.
The Buyer’s sole and exclusive remedy against the Seller in place of any other remedy which might be available, is the cancellation of the sale and the refund of the original purchase price paid for the lot less the buyers premium which is non refundable. Neither the Seller nor Mossgreen will be liable for any special, incidental nor consequential damages including, without limitation, loss of profits not for interest.
The Buyer must give written notice of claim to us within thirty days of the date of the Auction. The Seller shall have the right, to require the Buyer to obtain two written opinions by recognised experts in the field, mutually acceptable to the Buyer and Mossgreen to decide whether or not to cancel the sale under warranty.
the Buyer must return the lot to Seller in the same condition that it was purchased.
8. Severability
If any part of these Conditions of Sale is found by any court to be invalid, illegal or unenforceable, that part shall be discounted and the rest of the Conditions shall continue to be valid to the fullest extent permitted by law.

9. Copyright
The copyright of all images, illustrations and written material produced by Mossgreen relating to a lot including the contents of this catalogue, is and shall remain the property at all times of Mossgreen and shall not be used by the Buyer, nor by anyone else without our prior written consent. Mossgreen and the Seller make no representation or warranty that the Buyer of a property will acquire any copyright or other reproduction rights in it.

10. law and Jurisdiction
These terms and conditions and any matters concerned with the foregoing fall within the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of the state in which the auction is held.

11. Pre-Sale Estimates
Mossgreen publishes with each catalogue our opinion as to the estimated price range for each lot. These estimates are approximate prices only and are not intended to be definitive. They are prepared well in advance of the sale and may be subject to revision. Interested parties should contact Mossgreen prior to auction for updated pre-sale estimates and starting prices.

12. Sale results
Mossgreen will provide auction results, which will be available as soon as possible after the sale. Results will include buyer’s premium. These results will be posted at https://www.mossgreen.com.au.

13. goods and Service Tax
In accordance with A New Tax System (Goods and Services Tax) Act 1999 Mossgreen Auctions will collect on behalf of the Australian tax office (ATO) a Goods and Service Tax (GST) of 10% on all applicable transactions.

GST is applicable on the hammer price in the case where the seller is selling property that is owned by an entity registered for GST. GST is also applicable on the hammer price in the case where the seller is not an Australian resident. These lots are denoted by a dagger symbol † placed next to the estimate.

GST is also applicable on the buyer’s premium.

Overseas buyers and buyers non-resident in Australia will not be charged GST on both hammer price and premiums under the following conditions:

The items are exported through a Mossgreen approved freight company including Australia Post
The items are exported within 60 days of the date of the sale
The invoice supplied by Mossgreen for purchases will be regarded as a Tax invoice for GST purposes.

14. Resale Royalty Scheme
Under the legal obligations of the Resale Royalty Scheme for Visual Artists Act 2009, sellers must provide the following information to comply with the act:

was the artwork acquired after 8 June 2010?
is the sale/reserve price (including GST) $1,000 or more?
is the artist from Australia or a country listed in the Regulations to the Act?
is the artist alive, or deceased less than 70 years?
The seller:

acknowledges that he or she understands his or her legal obligations under the Resale Royalty for Visual Artists Act 2009 (the Act)
undertakes to comply with all requirements of the Act, including by providing its agent, the company, with accurate information sufficient for compliance with sections 28 and 29 of the Act
undertakes to indemnify the company for any loss incurred by the company as a result of the vendor’s failure to comply with any of the vendor’s legal obligations under the Act
acknowledges that if he or she fails to comply with any of his or her legal obligations under the Act, the company may provide the vendor’s name and contact details to Copyright Agency Limited (CAL)
Lots subject to payment of the Resale Royalty Scheme will be denoted by the §. The Australian Resale Royalty is a flat rate of 5% on the hammer price (including GST). The Australian Resale Royalty is payable by the buyer in addition to the buyers premium plus any applicable GST.

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ABOUT US
Board

For Terms & Conditions specific to Philatelic / Numismatic auctions, please click here.



https://www.mossgreen.com.au/content/wp-content/uploads/2016 ... Stamps.pdf

1. AUCTIONEER
Mossgreen Auctions (Mossgreen), a company
incorporated in the State of Victoria, is the
auctioneer, and adheres to the standard terms
of sale of the Australasian Philatelic Traders
Association.
2. DESCRIPTIONS
We endeavour to describe lots fully and accurately.
The description of a lot comprises 1)
the codes to the left of the description; 2) the
description; and 3) any illustration of the lot or
part of the lot appearing in the catalogue or on
the Mossgreen website. (The various codes and
symbols are explained on the previous page).
3. ESTIMATES
The figure in the right-hand column following
each lot description is a usually conservative
estimate of the auction value of the lot in
Australian dollars. A bidder may bid at, above
or below the estimate. Bids below the reserve
price (usually 75% of the estimate) will not be
accepted. There is no reserve on lots listed at
$50 or less, or lots for which the word “Offer” is
used in place of the estimate.
4. BIDDING
Bids may be made to Mossgreen from the company’s
website, by mail, by fax, or by e-mail.
Bids may also be made in person, by phone or
from the internet during the auction (by prior
arrangement) or through an agent attending
an auction. An agent must advise Mossgreen of
the person(s) for whom bids are being submitted
or else the agent will be personally liable
for payment and delivery of any lots purchased.
Mossgreen reserves the right to refuse any bid,
or to refuse bids from any person, for any reason.
In most cases, Mossgreen’s bidding steps
are as follows:
Increment Amount Dollar Range
$20 $0–$500
$50 $500–$1,000
$100 $1,000–$2,000
$200 $2,000–$5,000
$500 $5,000–$10,000
$1,000 $10,000–$20,000
$2,000 $20,000–$50,000
$5,000 $50,000–$100,000
$10,000 $100,000–$200,000
$20,000 $200,000–$500,000
$50,000 $500,000–$1,000,000
Mossgreen reserves the right to raise or lower
postal bids (depending on the bidder’s apparent
intention) to conform to these bidding steps.
5. TELEPHONE BIDDING
Bidding by telephone during the course of
a public auction is permitted. However, clients
wishing to use this service must contact
Mossgreen at least 24 hours before the auction.
[To request a copy of our pamphlet
“Assistance for Phone Bidders” please
phone Romani Benjamin on (03) 9508 8888 or
email leanne.kibby@mossgreen.com.au]
6. LIVE INTERNET BIDDING
Bidding from your own computer during the
auction is available. However, clients wishing
to use this service must contact Mossgreen at
least 24 hours before the auction.
7. GOODS & SERVICES TAX
(GST)
Australian law requires that GST equal to 10%
of the knock-down or sale price of a taxed lot
shall be payable by the buyer, unless the taxed
lot is exported to another country. Taxed lots
are indicated in the catalogue by a dagger
symbol following the estimate figure: eg 150†.
GST equal to 10% of the amount of any fees or
charges added by Mossgreen is also payable by
Australian buyers.
8. BUYER
The buyer of a lot shall be the person to whom
the lot is sold (“knocked-down”) by Mossgreen.
In the event of equal bids being received, the
earliest such bid shall be successful. In the
event of a dispute, Mossgreen shall have absolute
discretion in the settling of the dispute. A
lot is at the buyer’s risk once it has been sold
(“knocked-down”) but ownership (legal title)
will not pass to the buyer until Mossgreen has
received payment in full for the lot
9. PAYMENT
Payment is due immediately a lot is sold, or
immediately upon receipt of an invoice. In
addition to the price for which a lot is sold,
the buyer shall pay a premium of 20% of that
price, plus any fees for postage packing and
insurance applicable or credit card fees that
are charged by Mossgreen, plus GST as appropriate.
Payment by credit card will incur a
surcharge of 1.3% for MasterCard and Visa payments
and 2.85% for Amex payments, inc GST.
Payment should always be made in Australian
dollars. If payment is made in another currency
the buyer shall add the equivalent of $A50 or
3% of the invoice total, whichever is higher,
towards bank fees.
In the event that the buyer does not make payment
in full for the lot(s) within 30 days from
the date of the invoice, Mossgreen shall have
the right to exercise any one or more of the
following rights and remedies:
1) To impose an accounting fee of $100 per
month (or part thereof) plus compound interest
at the rate of 5% per month (or part
thereof) of the total amount outstanding;
2) To terminate the contract with the buyer, in
which case any monies received from the
buyer shall be forfeited to Mossgreen;
3) To terminate the contract and resell the
lot(s) at any time, in which case any resulting
shortfall, plus costs including accounting
fees, interest, insurance and resale expenses,
shall be met by the original buyer;
4) To apply any monies due at any time from
Mossgreen to the buyer in payment of the
outstanding amount;
5) To take legal action against the buyer for
damages for breach of contract.
10. RETURN OF LOTS
A lot may be returned, within a reasonable
time, only because of an error in the description:
see clause 2 for the definition of “the
description”. A lot that has been inspected by
the buyer or by the buyer’s agent cannot be
returned for any reason. A lot that is illustrated
in the catalogue or on the Mossgreen website
or of which an illustration has been supplied
to the buyer or to the buyer’s agent cannot be
returned for any reason that is apparent from
the illustration. A lot expressed to be a “range”,
“group”, “selection”, “array”, “collection”, “accumulation”
or similar, or any other lot containing
more than 10 items - excepting sets of stamps -
is always offered “as is” and cannot be returned
for any reason. Similarly, other lots offered “as
is” cannot be returned.
11. “EXTENSIONS”
A request for an extension to submit a lot to
a recognised expert or expert committee for
a Certificate of Authenticity must be made in
writing prior to or on the day of the auction.
Mossgreen shall have an absolute discretion
not to grant an extension. [In particular, an extension
will not normally be granted if the lot is
offered with a recent Certificate of Authenticity
or if the stamp(s) has/have perforated initials
(perfins).] If an extension is granted, the buyer
must make payment in full for the lot including
the buyer’s premium, in accordance with the
terms of Paragraph 9. The amount paid including
the buyer’s premium will be refunded in full
if the lot is returned with an acceptable “bad”
Certificate. All costs associated with obtaining
a certificate shall be borne by the buyer, unless
the lot is found to be not as identified in the
catalogue, in which case all costs associated
with obtaining the Certificate shall be refunded
to the buyer, and borne by the seller. A lot
described as being defective in any way may
not be returned should the Certificate obtained
mention any fault not noted in the lot description.
The buyer shall not be entitled to reject an
item if the certificate includes any finding that
does not materially affect the grading of the
lot. Unless otherwise agreed, nomination of the
appropriate expert or expert committee shall
be made by Mossgreen, and Mossgreen will be
responsible for submitting the lot to that expert
or expert committee. NB: Should Mossgreen
agree to the buyer’s nomination of an expert or
expert committee, the extension granted will
be for a period of no more than 90 days from
the date of the auction. If a Certificate has not
been obtained within 90 days from the date
of the auction, the extension shall lapse and
Mossgreen may thereafter refuse to accept the
return of the lot.
12. GOVERNING LAW
These Terms of Sale shall be governed by and
interpreted in accordance with the laws of the
State of Victoria.
13. ACCEPTANCE
Submitting a bid by any method constitutes
acknowledgment and acceptance of these
Terms of Sale.
T

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Global Administrator
The Sheriff
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Global Administrator »

Barry that is all boilerplate for BUYERS.

It has zero to do with SELLER Conditions of Sale paperwork that was asked about. :idea:
.
Click HERE to see superb, RARE and unusual stamps, at FIXED low nett prices, high rez photos, and NO buyer fees etc!

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Global Administrator
The Sheriff
The Sheriff
Posts: 57326
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 22:57
Location: Tombstone
Contact:

Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Global Administrator »

GJ50 wrote:
What with Mossgreen?

Has nil or no stock,
Heaps of debt

Expect many vendors to retrieve their future lots

Little or no new material - who would leave material with them now!

So, 55 employees, no stock, no income - looks very doubtful.
With absolutely massive staff, and super high rents and overheads and advertising and catalogue printing and mailing etc, my rough guess is it costs about $250,000 a month to open their doors.

Remember this Administration was only sneakily announced as they closed the doors for 3 weeks just before Xmas. So come Jan 15 re-opening, staff time for weeks now will be consumed with almost nothing else except staff meetings, directions from Administrators who now run the place but know zero about auctions, and staff fielding an avalanche of angry calls from vendors not paid for sales in 2017 (one sold goods for $500,000 and is not paid!) and from vendors who have material slated for 2018 sales, many of whom will presumably frantically withdraw it now.

"Assets" are said to be about $A3m. Of that I assume a fair deal is very 'rubbery'. What you GET for used office furniture and computers and IT and phones and stationery etc in a fire sale, is a fraction of what their 'book value' is.

I am guessing a fairly high figure is in the books for "goodwill" and the trading name "mossgreen"- both of which you could write down to near nothing I'd surmise right now?

So where the $3 million comes from I am not sure. The debts of $A12 million do stand however and grow each day with wages, rent, and massive Administrator fees - those are already about $250,000, and they have not even started yet.

I suspect their lawyers will be busy fighting of all kinds of demands and threats etc next week, and you might well have another few $100,000 there.

The assets will be overwhelmed very fast.

I spoke to Jack Gringlass and Charles Leski about them possibly buying Stanley Gibbons and Jack told me "I am an auctioneer, I work on buyer and seller fees - I do not buy stock", so surmise from that not much stock in the building is 'house' owned.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by allanmq »

Hi

This must be stressful for those with material still with the Auction House. It's getting hard to know who to trust.

I'm probably not up with the latest but didn't Mossgreen hold some of the very valuable disputed Julian Sterling collection stamps while the legal processes played out?

The Administrators and the lawyers are the only ones that profit from these situations.

regards
Amq

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by BigSaint »

Allan

Not sure but here is the thread on that:
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=54519
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Kevin Morgan »

I am advised by a reliable source that "The doors will not be open on Monday 15th January"

"Staff have been put on "Gardening Leave" until the end of January"

"Any creditors wanting more info may email Torsten Weller, whose address appears on their website."

I presume this is to ward off a barrage of press and people who are likely to be fronting up at their premises on Monday morning.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Monogram »

Kevin Morgan wrote:I am advised by a reliable source that "The doors will not be open on Monday 15th January"

"Staff have been put on "Gardening Leave" until the end of January"

"Any creditors wanting more info may email Torsten Weller, whose address appears on their website."

I presume this is to ward off a barrage of press and people who are likely to be fronting up at their premises on Monday morning.
My son already emailed Torsten Weller and Gary Watson twice about stock that they hold no response

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by GJ50 »

Monogram wrote: My son already emailed Torsten Weller and Gary Watson twice about stock that they hold no response
These employees no longer can make decisions.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

Virtually all auction terms and conditions have no mention of the Seller's rights in the event that the auction company is in administration or in other difficulties.

However, as auctioneers only act as agents for the seller, title to the goods remains with the seller until the goods are sold and paid for.

As I understand it, an auction company cannot refuse to hand back goods to a seller if they have failed to sell.

Additionally if the purchaser cannot pay for the goods then title would remain with the seller and the auction company would have to try and recoup any costs incurred in that process from the bidder.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Kevin Morgan »

Further to my earlier post today I am given to understand that a letter will be going out to all creditors from the Administrators within the next 48 hours to clarify the position.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Global Administrator »

Kevin Morgan wrote:I am advised by a reliable source that "The doors will not be open on Monday 15th January"

"Staff have been put on "Gardening Leave" until the end of January"

"Any creditors wanting more info may email Torsten Weller, whose address appears on their website."

I presume this is to ward off a barrage of press and people who are likely to be fronting up at their premises on Monday morning.
What a terrible mess, and a had a call yesterday from a usually reliable source, claiming around a million dollars of stamp/coin material had been consigned for this year there, by one trade vendor. Might be rumour - I have no idea, but if not, I'll bet that person is VERY glad it did not get offered late 2017. :idea: :roll: :roll:

Does anyone know what the position is at webb/mossgreen in NZ?

Sumner also assured NZ Media in December all was well - "Sumner said the (Australian) administration wouldn't impact the New Zealand business" but it seems clear to me at least, reading the BPO Debtor report notes, that NZ is almost certainly headed down the same path as oz, once the NZ version of the ASIC type paperwork process is put in place?

Note 3 below calls Webbs a "subsidiary"
Image
What I find most distasteful is that as I type this, the NZ and oz websites have ZERO notice the company is under Administration - not a word - even under Media notices - can anyone else see anything?

https://www.mossgreen-webbs.co.nz/content/

https://www.mossgreen.com.au/content/

Three weeks after the Liquidator has been in place, this strikes me as highly deceptive as most prospective vendors will almost all be totally in the dark of what is really going on.

BDO have billed out about $A200,000 already, and adding a short note on websites (that they control totally) to buyers and sellers they were now in place, and making the calls, seems a bare minimum requirement surely?

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by tapstamp »

Can someone please advise when the second meeting of the creditors will be held.?
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by GJ50 »

tapstamp wrote:Can someone please advise when the second meeting of the creditors will be held.?
Thanks
Tom
I believe the date mentioned at the 1st meeting was 7th or 8th of February.
I presume all those owed money will be notified.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by deebee444 »

Monday should be an interesting day, will the offices be open ?, will staff be there ?, will telephones be answered ?, time will tell

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by carolynwebb »

Hello. I'm a journalist at The Age newspaper.

Am keen to speak to creditors or anyone else who might have information about the company.

Please email me at carolynwebb [at] fairfaxmedia.com.au or ring 03 8667 2134.

Off the record if you wish.

Thanks. Carolyn Webb.

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