Mossgreen Auctions Australia in Administration. Total KAPUT?

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by MJ's pet »

I count 14 stamp/coin/postcard auctions in 2017. You see six.
No. You are counting the "online"-only auctions plus the room auctions.

They only held six in-room stamp auctions. One every 2 months.

The online auctions were a disaster.

The Mossgreen website is actually quite confusing in that it obscures what is an online auction and what is a room auction. Hence your mistake. Easy enough to do. You need to go back and look at the pdfs of the catalogues to determine which is a room auction and which isn't. There were 11 stamp auctions of all types in 2017, not 14.

Leski and Prestige have gone from circa 16 room stamp auctions to Mossgreen's 6. That is fact. Ask anyone who attends room auctions in Melbourne.

If you wanted to include every online auction, then also include the 7 auctions that they held for the Drexel Collection of Little Matchbox Cars, which I am sure was a rip-roaring success.

The online side probably gave them a little fillip, but nothing to write home about.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

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GJ50 wrote:
Glen,

The Frommer auction was in April 2017. Still owed $17000.

Sounds like they have been in difficulties for quite a while, but keeping all in the dark.
Be mindful Gary that Tom was a close personal friend of Leski. Lots of 2017 sales had Frommer stuff in it.

His main 2 airmail sales did OK I think you'll find WAYYYYY more than 17K! So he would have been paid in full. Knowing Tom he's have been chasing the dough after 30 days!

Unsolds from the earlier sales got re-treaded and re-submitted however.

Even the October stamp sale was riddled with them - near all unsold again -

https://www.mossgreen.com.au/m/view-auctions/catalog/id/420/ ... eatured=no

Tom, probably due to the Leski connection, was allowed to place silly estimates on the covers, and most again did not sell. What did sell it seems he is still owed for, from October etc.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by MJ's pet »

I am not in the car game and have no idea what happened to this Jag.

Sumner was trumpeting it before the sale at $A8m (plus fees!) -

http://www.afr.com/news/is-this-classic-car-worth-8-million-20171003-gytf15

And it appears not to have sold. We have no idea if a guarantee was given or not - it is just an example of the HIGH risk things Sumner took on.
The whole point about asking if the car vendor appears in the creditor list is that it did not appear in the listing that was posted on this board. High risk, yes, but it seems it all came to naught and Sumner doesn't owe Jag-man the money.

So the cause of the Mossgreen implosion is not the car per se. The cause of it is the $6 MILLION owed to the secured investor creditor.

Needless to say Paul Sumner was probably sweating on receiving a $2M buyers fee for selling the car on 14 October 2017, and it didn't sell. I suspect the word "guarantee" is mis-used here. More probably a sweeheart deal with no seller's commission, but with Mossgreen getting a 25% Buyer's commission, and there being an undeclared reserve. Was anyone here at the auction and what did it open at? (Other than stony silence :o )

When the car didn't sell, things went south very quickly.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

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MJ's pet wrote:
I count 14 stamp/coin/postcard auctions in 2017. You see six.
If you wanted to include every online auction, then also include the 7 auctions that they held for the Drexel Collection of Little Matchbox Cars, which I am sure was a rip-roaring success.

The online side probably gave them a little fillip, but nothing to write home about.
I was not counting Matchbox cars etc, but only the mossgreen stamp/coin/postcard auctions, and I repeat, there were FOURTEEN of them in 2017.

Some of the largest stamp auctions on this planet are online only.

Andrew McGavin owner of Universal Philatelic Auctions (UPA) in the UK is a member here, and has been following this saga, and emailed me only yesterday saying-

"We had 2,060 different bidders in last week’s auction, and rising with the unsolds orders now on line."

http://www.upalatesales.uk/

I've dealt very successfully with Andrew for 40 years, and he is one VERY savvy operator, with many dozens of staff, BUT makes a profit! Charges no credit card surcharges, (like me) no paypal surcharge, NO Buyer's premium, no silly post and packing charges etc.

No Chi Chi Wanky Tearooms, no $8m Jaguar cars, no Mick Fleetwood tours, no buying of failed debt magnet overseas operations etc. Just sells lots of stamps at good prices. :mrgreen:

Stampboards members get a no quibble 50 quid CREDIT off their first order, if they mention this board to Elaine when ordering, so well worth looking at. Buy a stamp for 51 quid and you pay 1 quid etc. If there are things in there that I can buy, the prices are good. :)

He does send 250 page full colour A4 catalogues each sale as well of course. Well worth asking for one - you'll be amazed!

Glen

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by MJ's pet »

GJ50 wrote:

Glen,

The Frommer auction was in April 2017. Still owed $17000.
This sounds right as that was Frommer's estimated figure from the creditor list, supplied by Tom Frommer himself.

His stuff realised way more than that, but the $17K is the tail-end Charlie lots.

Anyway, someone could ask Tom Frommer if there really was any doubt about it.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by deebee444 »

re. Tom Frommer,

that would be the unsolds from April that were relisted in later Auctions,

deebee444

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Global Administrator »

MJ's pet wrote:
Another famous collection that probably is caught up in the mess
I feel so sorry for MARK DISERIO.

Has anyone totted up the prices realised from his collection? (Minus astronomical seller's fees of course).

SHAME SHAME SHAME
Well shame on you both actually, for speculating and not checking - I am assured from from a very reliable source the proceeds from this collection were paid up in full, before this current mess eventuated. :idea:

Glen

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by MJ's pet »

According to GJ50 who is a position to know, Mark Diserio was caught up in the mess.

I did point out that Mark was not on the creditor's list.

The administrators are still totting up the creditors. The report from the first creditor's meeting is always a rough cut.

Paul Sumner said "No vendor will be one cent out of pocket" and look how that is turning out.

Whether Mark has been paid or not may be a little mischief-making on GJ50's part. I hope he has, this sort of stuff shouldn't be wished on anyone! But whatever the true story, it doesn't change the fact that hundreds of people are collectively $12 MILLION in the hole. That is a real shame.

I wonder if we will next we will be told that the Danish Family have received their $225,000 too.
Last edited by MJ's pet on 17 Jan 2018 18:12, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by MJ's pet »

All of Mossgreen's "non-auction alternative activities" sure get a lot of attention, but I'm sure the vendors want the focus to be on the facts. So with that in mind, consider the following.

Mick Fleetwood

If you would like to book Mick Fleetwood for your event or private party (is Glen's 65th coming up? :lol: :lol: :lol: ), you can for only:

Price indication: $ 20.000 - $ 50.000

Entertainment Book Agency

This is US$, so about AUD $25,000 to get Mick Fleetwood here. Plus flights and hotel. (He only had to fly in from Hawaii). (Glen could use frequent flyer points). And at the low-end fee he doesn't have to sing.

http://www.entertainmentbookingagency.com/artists/mick-fleetwood/

What this doesn't figure is that the Mick Fleetwood events (2 of them) were ticketed which would have covered Mick's fee. These tickets cost between $500 and $1200 each for a couple. Doesn't take many attendees to cover Mick's cost. And Fleetwood Mac are catnip to Baby Boomers.

At these events Mick was flogging his $700 book, included in the cost of the $1200 tickets. So really this was a "meet Mick Fleetwood and buy my own book" event, not "Oh My God I can't Believe Mick Fleetwood is in Australia". As much as I like Fleetwood Mac, they are not exactly Frank Sinatra, Paul Macartney or Elvis either.

And Paul Sumner hasn't come out and said, "Aww shucks, we blew a motza on Mick Fleetwood and now we're broke".

Cocktail Event with Mick Fleetwood
Wed 29 Nov 2017 - Fri 1 Dec 2017 Mossgreen

https://www.tickettailor.com/checkout/view-event/id/115357/chk/27e4/

Buy tickets
TICKET TYPEPRICE ($)QUANTITY
Sydney Cocktail Night on Wednesday 29 November 2017
Sydney Cocktail Night per ticket
This ticket is for one person. GST inclusive.
500.00

Sydney Cocktail Night per couple
This ticket is for two people. GST inclusive.
895.00

Sydney Cocktail Night per ticket & book
This ticket is for one person and includes one limited edition book. GST inclusive.
1,200.00

Melbourne Cocktail Night Friday 1 December 2017
Melbourne Cocktail Night per ticket
This ticket is for one person. GST inclusive.
500.00

Melbourne Cocktail Night per couple
This ticket is for two people. GST inclusive.
895.00

Melbourne Cocktail Night per ticket & book
This ticket is for one person and includes one limited edition book. GST inclusive.
1,200.00

The Tea Rooms

Peter Rowland, the Melbourne society catering company ranks among the top six unsecured creditors, after the auction house Mossgreen fell into voluntary external administration last month.

Around $166,000 is owed to the catering company who sent its executive director Steven Abela to the first creditors' meeting.

https://www.propertyobserver.com.au/forward-planning/investm ... itors.html

The cafe was not cheap (evidently since shut), but not expensive for that part of Melbourne either:

https://www.zomato.com/melbourne/mossgreen-tearooms-armadale/menu#tabtop

I rather doubt the stamp collectors were wolfing this stuff down given they were screaming about Mossgreen's 25% Buyer's Fee (another issue for another time). But I rather suspect the cafe helped boost their antique auctions and helped them sell some art. All about air and ambience really. The last stamp shop I was in (are there any left?) looked like a garbage dump so they are best avoided.

So to summarise, Mick Fleetwood is not in the creditors list. Neither is Jag-man. The caterer is in there for $166K. That's probably two months cafe turnover. When things got dicey around October 2017, Sumner and his finance team, Kylie Jolley ex Leski's, wife Amanda The Artist or Whatever, etc. stopped paying the bills.

While Mick Fleetwood events, the no-sale-Jag and Chi Chi Tearooms are amusing to some, these things didn't sink Mossgreen. This is a million miles from the $12 MILLION owed to the secured investor and the poor old vendors and suppliers. Mossgreen is not in administration because they serve goats-milk skim lattes.

$25,000 Mick Fleetwood

$0 Jag worth $8M

$166,000 Tea Room Catering

$191,000

Where is the other $11.8 MILL?

Do the Math. Follow the Money.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Global Administrator »

MJ's pet wrote:
According to GJ50 who is a position to know, Mark Diserio was caught up in the mess.

If you have inside information then post it here.
I just did - he was paid in full - whether someone from Tasmania believes me or not, I really could not care less.

As I said, stick to FACTS please, not fevered rumour, and hare brained guesswork. This is not Fox News.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by MJ's pet »

Another Quite Interesting thing to ponder is the role of Paul Sumner's wife, Amanda Swanson, Co-Director of R.M.S.S Mossgreen Titanic.

https://www.mossgreen.com.au/content/mossgreen-directors/

Paul Sumner
Chief Executive Officer

Amanda Swanson
Co-Founder and Events and Sponsorship Director

Kylie Jolley
Chief Financial Officer
kylie.jolley@mossgreen.com.au

Kylie brings to the role over twenty years of extensive experience working in a finance role and in excess of fourteen years working in the Auction and Collectibles industries. Most recently Kylie has held the position of Business and Finance Manager for Leski Auctions


There is quite a big puff piece on her here, which is actually quite revealing:

https://uniqueestates.com.au/the-woman-behind-the-brand/


The Woman Behind The Brand
Amanda Swanson, the co-founder of international auction house and gallery Mossgreen.
Amanda Swanson doesn’t have the luxury of awaiting opportunity.


In a professional career spanning just two decades and three cities, she has launched an eponymous design business, taken on a high profile role marketing fashion, managed a burgeoning Sydney art gallery and co-founded Australia’s first hybrid auction house and art gallery.

After leaving Firbank Grammar senior school and securing a place in Melbourne’s renowned fashion and design degree course, Amanda was taking her first tentative steps towards a career which would see her spend her days surrounded by beauty in all its different guises.

Always a creative soul, who as a child was immersed in ballet, music, and art, Amanda was the latest in a long line of proud Swanson women who had sartorial DNA.

“Mum always was into fashion and had a great wardrobe, and I think playing dress ups in her old designer heels kicked off the fashion gene. [This interest] was bolstered by my fashionista Sydney grandma Hilda who worked on the famous seventh floor of David Jones and had a similarly fun collection of shoes and fab vintage garments to dress up in. There was also my wonderful Melbourne grandma Isobell – originally a milliner – who spent many fond hours teaching [my sister and I] all sorts of creative pursuits including beading and embroidery and combinations of both. She had a fabulous collection of old antique beads, collars and beautiful haberdashery items and this just resonated with me so much; this love of embellishment lead me to think of a career in fashion primarily to be able to then pursue costume design or accessory design [as] these were my favourite areas of interest.”

The venture proved a successful one and before long Amanda Swanson Design boasted a swag of international and national stockists including Jane Lambert in Sydney, Georges and Le Louvre in Melbourne, and The Cross in London’s Notting Hill. This was in addition to commanding gushing editorials in the likes of Tatler, Australian Vogue and Harpers Bazaar.

“I am definitely a person who likes a challenge… so I gave it a go. Financially it was very difficult – people always wanted to borrow not buy and I sunk every second and every cent into creating the pieces and promoting myself.”

Amanda, who began her label while in the midst of her European OE, says she worked hard at creating fabulous pieces and would then send them off to “famous” Australians in the hope they would wear them and publicity would follow.

“Of course I realise now what a naïve and expensive approach this was – but at the time I just went with my gut instinct,” Amanda says.

Three years later, the closure of Georges proved the catalyst for closing down the business.

“I lost a huge amount of stock and was never paid – this is called learning the hard way [but] at the time was devastating.”

Down but not out and with a proven track record in public relations, Amanda, who by then had returned to Australian shores, found herself representing some of the country’s most distinguished fashion brands via a stint as account manager at fashion communications firm Hush Communications.

But she soon discovered the world of PR was not for her.

“I had very much enjoyed doing my own PR for my own label and so thought it would be a similar experience for other brands however I soon realised it was not the same for another brand – it was simply not for me.”

Soon after she met life partner Paul Sumner, who at the time was the managing director of the Australian arm of auction house Sotheby’s, Paul received a job transfer to the UK. Amanda accompanied him and began working for a London art dealer.

Impressed by her knowledge of the global arts scene, Di and Ali Yeldham offered Amanda a job managing the Art House Gallery in Sydney’s Neutral Bay upon their return. It was a homecoming in more ways than one and Amanda says she instantly felt a sense of belonging.

“I loved the gallery. I loved its stable of artists where I could combine all my selling, curating, PR skills in an industry I really enjoyed. It’s funny as fashion and art have many similarities and are completely symbiotic. I wish when at school and thinking of a career in the arts there had been more detail about the kinds of jobs you can have in the arts industries – such as specialising in a particular field for an auction house, or managing an art gallery. Instead, the only two options I could see at the time was to become an artist or to study arts at Melbourne University.”

Paul and Amanda were together for just a couple of years when talk turned to the possibility of opening their own gallery.

In the end, the move happened organically and in 2004, less than four years after first locking eyes on each other, they decided to pool their respective talents and launch their own business, Mossgreen.

“Being young and starting up a business is hard on two fronts – the banks of course don’t take you seriously and I remember so clearly how tough things were in those early days. We had a few close shaves…but it makes you hungry for success as for us failure just wasn’t an option,” Amanda says.

What began as a little start up is today one of Australia’s most unique and innovative arts businesses, encompassing a contemporary art gallery, boutique auction house and elegant tearooms. Also, state-of-the-art venue spaces available for private hire for private parties and high-end corporate events.

After nine years of almost continuous growth, Mossgreen merged with Leski Auctions three years ago and acquired the former Armadale Picture Theatre in Melbourne where it is currently headquartered. It has since opened a second site in Sydney’s Woollahra and now operates an international division, having recently acquired Webbs Auction House in Auckland, New Zealand.

Yet despite putting in 60-hour weeks and finding herself immersed in the business at all hours of the day and night, Amanda, who is now the company’s events and sponsorship director and head of department for the Interior Decorator Auctions says there’s no other way she’d prefer to spend her time.

“We probably never thought [the business] would be the size it is… however it’s immensely gratifying to see the company where it is now. The Mossgreen story is one of evolution – so sometimes new horizons need to be chartered. If we had a crystal ball then I would say some things may have been averted, but then you learn and grow from experience so maybe the hard things are good to experience for a reason.”

“We decided on a change of strategy three years ago with some additional shareholders joining the company which has allowed the incredible growth and expansion, however the pressure is still just as much on us as the co-founders as a brand is an extension of yourself and you need to constantly nurture it to ensure it remains true to itself and what our clients expect from it.”

When pressed, Amanda says she finds it difficult to point one clear reason why Mossgreen has enjoyed such phenomenal success. While timing and selecting the right niche played a part so too did the relationship and dynamic between the house’s co-founders.

“[Paul and I] are two very different beings and I believe that’s part of the key to our success. We complement each other and challenge each other constantly. It’s a lot easier now we have more clearly defined roles as the business is so much larger.”

Yet sharing a workspace, together with a home and a love of all things beautiful is not where the pair’s similarities start and end.

Believing a glass or six of a good wine is as important as any other form of relaxation, the pair like to turn off from talking shop by finishing the renovations on their Melbourne home and fine tuning their outdoor living spaces.

“We’re obsessed with old houses and aesthetics. We love collecting interesting beautiful things and we love to travel to source great things – this is the ultimate in personal enjoyment. When we entertain we like to do it in a theatrical detailed way. Maybe we are a bit stuck in the past but I like that.”

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by GJ50 »

MJ's pet wrote:According to GJ50 who is a position to know, Mark Diserio was caught up in the mess.
Please don't misquote me. My words were probably, due to the date but it is not so. I got it wrong.

My words were "Another famous collection that probably is caught up in the mess."

You seem to have a lot to say for someone who has only been on the board for 48 hours.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Global Administrator »

deebee444 wrote:
I wonder if all of the employees knew of the financial problem?

In the case of Velvet they all knew without warning the "victims".

deebee444
David, as I have posted, I had conversations with Gary Watson, Charles Leski and Torsten Weller during December, on different matters, at different times, and none gave me the slightest indication anything was amiss in there.

I was chasing info on a Victoria postmark his week, and spoke to Gary Watson on it, who is the Whizz in this field.

To answer your question above, I asked Gary when he first heard of this mess, and said like pretty much everyone else, just before Christmas when the Administrator was appointed.

I asked Gary if he had suffered any loss in the collapse and he said - “yes the family has lost around $100,000 it looks like, unless we see a miracle.”

That was very sobering, and he advised his Superannuation Fund “Jeriera” was the main loser with about $50,000, and his father Max Watson lost about $35,000, and he personally lost about $15,000.

I asked if that detail could be posted here, and Gary said he was fully agreeable to that, as it is all on the public record, via the debtor list.

Gary had sold off a lot of his superb CEYLON collection in the October sale, and clearly would not have been doing that, if he thought the monies would never reach him. Even working in there he did not chase the monies up, as he assumed they’d all be fine in due course.

So as the Watsons lost ~$100,000, the chattering from the bleacher seats here can be settled I think, that is for sure. I feel sorry - and angry - a senior employee there was not cautioned by Sumner to hold off on auctioning personal goods, when he was already meeting with Administrators to save the company.

I asked Gary if he or others working there had any inkling any troubles were in the wind, and he replied he had seen or heard nothing to worry him on that score, and felt sure others thought along those lines.

I asked Gary if he knew if Torsten Weller was owed any money, and Gary said he felt sure that he was, but did not have the creditor list to hand to check on how much.

As random chance had it, I bought a superb Ceylon SUPERB 1903/1910 KEVII De La Rue UNISSUED value Die Proof that Gary had bought from the stupendous Sir Gawaine Baillie collection:
Image
I listed this on my Rarity page before Christmas, and before this all occurred, and it was fully paid for of course at time of sale. Naturally I had zero idea who the vendor was at that time.

Gary mentioned he has now moved on from mossgreen, and is taking it easy for the immediate future, and will likely work with existing personal collector and clients. Gary was not sure how long Torsten would be in there, but had the feeling it was likely for a few weeks, to assist with getting material back to consignors and the like. I recall he said Nick Anning had left too.

A horrible mess, and when senior staffers at the coal face, personally stand to lose ~$100,000, clearly they had absolutely no idea this collapse was imminent.

Remember the music is not over totally yet. Sumner might well submit a late offer to Administrators - it seems like he has a few days to do so?

Even if he offered to bear 10% or 20% or so of the debt, I suspect debtors would accept it. $2 million is better than nothing etc.

This kind of silver tongued charmer often can be convincing to folks with too much money. A "White Knight" might well be secured - with these guys who knows? They are like Trump, they sadly believe 100% in their own "abilities".

We shall soon see. :idea:

Glen
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by Michael Eastick »

I also would like to pass on my best wishes to the staff, but first I must express my sadness that vendors have copped it in the neck again, through absolutely no fault of theirs they have lost out in a large way.

But the staff have also had losses not only money, but also in other ways from being tied up in this mess.

Gary, Nick, Debbie and Torsten - as Glen has stated, had no indication that this was coming, I feel sorry for them as well, and wish them all the best.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by BigSaint »

MJ's pet welcome to Stampboards & the Mossgreen thread.

Let me clarify something about "Art" & "Cars" & their position in the Statement of Affairs at the 1st Creditors meeting:

Assets

Cash $A1.6m
Amounts due from Auction Buyers $A1.2m
Other assets $A0.2m

Total Assets $A3m

Liabilties

Jack Gringlas $A6m
Amounts due to Auction Sellers $A5.8m
Other amounts owed $A0.2m

Total Liabilities $A12m

Deficiency of Assets over Liabilities $A9m

As you can see in the current situation there appears to be no high priced "Art" or "Cars" in the Assets of the company but that is not say there has not been in the past.

You ask us to do some maths but you are far more knowledgeable about Mossgreen Auctions than me. Can you, starting with the last auction in December & working backwards, work out how far we need to go back to reach the $5.8m plus 15% buyers commission, so another $1m there, therefore gross sales of $6.8m :?: This will give us an indication how long Mossgreen are taking to pay their vendors.

I am curious why Peter Rowland is owed money & they appear to be the major part of the other liabilities.

The way I believe Peter Rowland operates is to pay a fee to the business operator (call it a franchise fee if you like), pay the costs of running that catering/cafe/restaurant business i.e. wages, food costs etc, & collecting the sales receipts from running that business which they keep.

Now the Peter Rowland Catering business which I have the most to deal with is the one at Flemington Racecourse where they run the catering for the VRC. Caulfield & Moonee Valley Racing Clubs do their own catering.

Here is a comparison of the cost of a cup of coffee & a 4 point sandwich at each.

Moonee Valley - $7.50
Caulfield - $9.20
Flemington - $14.00

Peter Rowland Catering appear to recoup their "Franchise Fee" at Flemington with higher prices. Members at Flemington in recent times on Social Media have complained of among other things stale bread, too much butter & little filling in the sandwiches.

Anyhow lets not get into Peter Rowland's debacle but if two months worth that is about 200 coffees & sandwiches per day.


So MJ's can you pet tell us how far back we have to go, to come up to $A6.8m in gross sales of auctions of all types.

Brad :)
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by Global Administrator »

All the mossgreen-au ebay listings were pulled today I notice all at 2.56pm - with mysteriously a good number "selling" at that exact second in time!

https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/mossgreen-au/m.html?item=1526734 ... 6732.m1684
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

The sold at that exact second in time will be lots that had multiple copies of the same item. That is the time ebay lists as sold regardless of the actual time.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by Global Administrator »

Do not look to be multiples to me, and I doubt they 'sold' today.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

Click on the Cricket 2001 team at $35.00 Glen. You will see that 3 sold. Those could have sold individually at any time in the last 30 days but ebay marks the time as sold when the listing ends.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by GlenStephens »

OK .. got it. A brilliant ebay "feature"!
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by Global Administrator »

Forget to mention that a staff meeting was called for 9am today by the Administrators (Wednesday) and the news in a nutshell was - 'The Carnival Is Over.' :(

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by gregbear61 »

This was just put up on The AFR website an hour ago.

Some new news...

http://www.afr.com/news/politics/national/auction-house-moss ... 117-h0jk4g

Auction house Mossgreen collapses owing $12m to staff, wealthy collectors

The vendors of rare artworks, including a Russell Drysdale painting sold for $3 million, are among the unsecured creditors of Mossgreen and appear unlikely to be paid after the prominent auction house collapsed on Wednesday with $12 million in debts.

Almost $6 million is owed to vendors who sold paintings and collectibles through the company. Around 30 of the firm's 40 staff were made redundant by administrator BDO on Wednesday, including the co-founders Paul Sumner and his wife Amanda Swanson.

The remaining staff of Mossgreen, which had branches in Melbourne, Sydney and Auckland, will now do a stocktake and return thousands of unsold items to their owners.

The items are not considered assets of Mossgreen as they were consigned goods but their return could be delayed "until a full stocktake is complete", BDO said in a statement.

Jadig Investments is the only secured creditor and is owned $6 million, according to the minutes of an administrator's meeting held earlier in the month. The secured loan facility from Jadig was provided to fund the expansion and growth of Mossgreen with interest charged at $40,000 a month, according to the minutes.

It is unclear how much of the $5.8 million owed to vendors who sold products through the company can be repaid as they are considered unsecured creditors. BDO told the first creditors meeting, held on January 4, there was no legal requirement for the auction house's operators to bank money for items they sold in a trust account.

BDO said the auction house had $3 million in assets, including $1.6 million of cash in the bank and $1.4 million owed by debtors.

The detailed list of creditors, of which there are around 400, reveals that three high profile vendors are owed almost half of the outstanding vendor monies.

Sophie Chamberlain, the daughter of the late wealthy insurance underwriter Martin Copley, is claiming $1.7 million for the October auction of Mr Copley's extensive book collection.

The estate of South Australian building industry icon Alan Hickinbotham and his wife Margaret is claiming $1.2 million over the remaining payment due for the sale of Drysdale's Grandma's Sunday Walk which fetched $2.97 million at auction.

While Mark Coppleson, the son of former Vogue editor-at-large Patricia Coppleson and her husband, gynaecologist Malcolm, is claiming $465,938.35 over the sale of the late couple's art collection late last year.

The collapse of the restructuring plan means that an earlier promise by the gallery's co-founder Mr Sumner to return all vendor money is now uncertain.

"When I said that vendor creditors would be paid 100 cents in the dollar and staff would keep their jobs, it was based on a witnessed agreement with the secured creditor," Mr Sumner said by telephone on Wednesday afternoon.

The collapse of this agreement with Jadig Investments, which Mr Sumner declined to detail, means the distribution of any funds is now in the hands of BDO administrators James White, Nicholas Martin and Andrew Sallway.

In a statement, the administrators said they would now "begin the process of an orderly wind down of the business. Notwithstanding this, a sale will be considered and expressions of interest shall be sought."

Mossgreen was founded in 2004 by Mr Sumner and wife Amanda Swanson.

The business bought coin, stamp and memorabilia experts Charles Leski Auctions in 2013 and the New Zealand auction house Webb in 2015.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by Global Administrator »

gregbear61 wrote:
The collapse of the restructuring plan means that an earlier promise by the gallery's co-founder Mr Sumner to return all vendor money is now uncertain.

"When I said that vendor creditors would be paid 100 cents in the dollar and staff would keep their jobs, it was based on a witnessed agreement with the secured creditor," Mr Sumner said by telephone on Wednesday afternoon.
I would love to sight this alleged agreement. Perhaps it said something like:

"I, Jack Gringlas, successful billionaire, being of sound mind, declare that in addition to the $6 million this Schmuck Sumner now tells me he cannot pay me back, waive that sum forever, and in addition, I generously agree to kick in another $4 million, so all the other vendors in his failed business can also be paid. So that all those numerous media promises made by said Schmuck, after he was legally removed as a Director, can be fulfilled, so he saves some face, and so he still gets invited to Toorak garden parties, and openings of envelopes, and Mick Fleetwood book signings etc."

Or maybe it didn't. Hope ASIC toss the book at this guy. :roll:

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions - APPOINTMENT & 1st MEETING OF CREDI

Post by capetriangle »

mikeg wrote: It is still important to see what the actual Mossgreen consignment agreement says, since if the vendor does retain ownership until paid, then any vendor who has not received full payment for his material retains full ownership of all of that material.

Anyone else in possession of his material, even if they have paid the auction house for it, in in possession of stolen material.

At least here, unlike the Velvet case, since art was also involved, there will be vendors who hopefully will not hesitate to act - and anyone here who is owed money or material should follow their lead.

It is as simple as that.

In the art world it is common for original owners to have objects seized in these circumstances, even 30 or 50 years later or even after the work has been donated to a museum.

This is unfortunate for those who have usually bought the works in good faith, but that is the way the law is.
I am glad I am not a lawyer.

The idea of having material, bought, received and paid for from an auction house, being clawed back by the vendor since he/she was not paid by the auction house boggles the mind.

So this thread which is beginning to shake my confidence in the idea of selling by auction now questions the sanity of buying from auctions.

What will we have next, the Indians (whoops Native Americans) who received the $24 ($1,050 in 2015 dollars) worth of trinkets for Manhattan Island from Peter Minuit claim that the deal has fallen out of escrow?

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by timbromania »

...since if the vendor does retain ownership until paid, then any vendor who has not received full payment for his material retains full ownership of all of that material.
I am not a lawyer either, but in England at an auction, legal title passes from the vendor to the buyer, when the hammer falls. This assumes that the vendor has legal title, which would not be the case, if the goods were stolen. Australian law may be different, but I think in US law is the same.

The case of art works, such as those obtained under duress by the Nazis is different, because they did not obtain proper legal title. In those cases the original owners can seek redress.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by capetriangle »

timbromania wrote:
...since if the vendor does retain ownership until paid, then any vendor who has not received full payment for his material retains full ownership of all of that material.
I am not a lawyer either, but in England at an auction, legal title passes from the vendor to the buyer, when the hammer falls. This assumes that the vendor has legal title, which would not be the case, if the goods were stolen. Australian law may be different, but I think in US law is the same.

The case of art works, such as those obtained under duress by the Nazis is different, because they did not obtain proper legal title. In those cases the original owners can seek redress.
Many thanks, I now feel better.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by norvic »

timbromania wrote:
...since if the vendor does retain ownership until paid, then any vendor who has not received full payment for his material retains full ownership of all of that material.
I am not a lawyer either, but in England at an auction, legal title passes from the vendor to the buyer, when the hammer falls.
I think you have misunderstood.

When the hammer falls responsibility including for post-sale damage, passes to the buyer, but title does not pass until the buyer has paid for the goods. These are typical and there are many examples:
Once all amounts owed are received by Chiswick Auctions in cleared funds, title of will pass to the buyer.
The ownership of any Lots purchased shall not pass to the buyer until the buyer has made payment in full to us of the total amount due.
The buyer shall at their own risk and expense take away any Lots that the buyer purchased
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by timbromania »

Ian

Before I made my previous post, I did do a bit of research.
This American post seems to address the problem:
http://www.michak.legal/blog/considering-title-possession-and-risk-of-loss-in-the-sale-of-p
The relevant paragraph:
Now, what happens when that personal property is sold at auction? With respect to title, the North Carolina Auctioneer Licensing Board (which seems to be a pretty good source for identifying standards in the industry) has observed that "[t]itle for personal property sold at auction passes when the auctioneer accepts the final bid and announces the item sold (at the fall of the hammer)." (http://www.ncalb.org/terminology.cfm#). This view actually states the rule set forth in Article 2 of the Uniform Commercial Code. According to UCC Section 2-328 "[a] sale by auction is complete when the auctioneer so announces by the fall of the hammer or in other customary manner." Under UCC Section 2-106, a "sale" is defined as "the passing of title from the seller to the buyer for a price." If, according to Section 2-328, the sale (i.e., the passing of title) is complete with the fall of the hammer, then title passes at that moment and the price that the buyer is obligated to pay is established at that moment. The only things left to do are for the auctioneer to deliver possession and to transfer the risk of loss to the buyer, and for the buyer to pay for the property. The auctioneer may, however, retain possession until payment is made. Under this circumstance, the auctioneer exercises a possessory lien against the property, and is not required to release possession until payment is received – even though title may have passed by operation of law. This is roughly analogous to an artisan’s lien pursuant to which the mechanic who worked on your car may maintain possession of the car until you pay for the repairs. If the auctioneer retains possession through a possessory lien until payment is made, risk of loss will, typically, not pass to the buyer until possession is transferred.
The important point is, I believe, that legal title can be obtained at auction even if the auctioneer does not pay the vendor.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by gavin-h »

timbromania wrote:Before I made my previous post, I did do a bit of research.
This American post seems to address the problem:
MODERATOR COMMENT:

Bear in mind, we're talking about an AUSTRALIAN company here, so American law (even more so than British law) probably doesn't reflect accurately the position in this case.

As this is a particularly important thread, let's ALL please stick to specifics about Mossgreen and not turn it into an "all I know about auction legislation" discussion. :idea:

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by norvic »

Good points, Gav.
However, people landing on this thread are likely to run scared of auction houses when some failing consumer legislation fails to protect owners of auctioned property. My point was merely to point out that the rules in Australia do not necessarily apply to all auctions (thank goodness!). (I failed, however, to find anything about the UK position on holding sale monies in trust for vendors, prior to them being passed on. )
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by timbromania »

Some more news:
https://www.antiquestradegazette.com/news/2018/australia-s-m ... -be-found/
Australia’s Mossgreen auction house and art gallery to close if buyer cannot be found
Australian auction house Mossgreen is to be wound down by administrators after joint founder Paul Sumner was unable to restructure the firm.

...
17 Jan 2018
Mossgreen
Australian auction firm Mossgreen went into administration on December 21 2017. Image from Mossgreen.
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Administrators at BDO said it will begin the process of an orderly wind-down of the business but it will also consider a sale of the firm and is seeking expressions of interest from potential buyers.

Around 400 people and businesses are owed money by the Australian auction house and gallery firm, set up by Sumner and Amanda Swanson in 2004, after it went into administration in December 2017. It has assets of about Aus$3m (£1.7m) and debts of Aus$12m (£7m).

The firm’s primary investor, businessman Jack Gringlas, is thought to be the biggest creditor.

All vendors who have consigned goods to Mossgreen for sale will be contacted and arrangements made for the return of their possessions.

"Devastating"

Sumner said a proposed investment plan had not worked out.

He told ATG: “This is personally and professionally devastating to me and my wife because of the effect it is having on staff, creditors and clients.

“We have never traded insolvent and we had an agreed plan following voluntary administration that, due to changing circumstances beyond my control, did not come to fruition.”

Sumner added: “While I have been made redundant, I am continuing to work without pay to ensure that vendors have property returned and creditors are looked after as best as possible.”


BDO said the closure of the business is “extremely disappointing to all parties affected by it. BDO will be working with staff, vendors, creditors and other stakeholders to ensure that the impacts of closure are minimised.”

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by deebee444 »

Hopefully this will need the the drafting of new regulations regarding Auction Houses trust accounts in Australia,

deebee444

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by Allanswood »

It needs to be a State by State change to the relevant laws.

Even then, the dodgy may still hold or deposit funds outside of a 'trust' account and who would know?
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by Kevin Morgan »

"1 Enfield Street, St Kilda, Vic 3182

House, Sold on 24 Oct 2011, $2,045,000

4 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, 4 car parking spaces"

What would that be worth today? 4.5 - 5 million?
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by deebee444 »

I wonder if it has been used as part of the secured debt to Mr. Gringlas,

deebee444

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by BigSaint »

deebee444 wrote:I wonder if it has been used as part of the secured debt to Mr. Gringlas,

deebee444
or perhaps somewhere closer to home :wink:
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by Global Administrator »

Very well researched Fairfax article from new stampboards member Carolyn Webb. :)

Highlighting in red is mine.

https://www.theage.com.au/victoria/mossgreen-auction-house-collapses-20180117-p4yyk8.html
Mossgreen auction house collapses
January 17 2018 - 6:37PM

Carolyn Webb

The art world is reeling with the news that high-profile auction house Mossgreen has collapsed under $12 million in debt.

The company’s administrators, BDO, said Mossgreen director and co-owner Paul Sumner was ‘‘not in a position to proceed with his proposed restructure of Mossgreen’’. Therefore an ‘‘orderly wind down of the business’’ will begin, according to a BDO statement.


Image
Business folds: Mossgreen director and co-owner Paul Sumner said a rescue deal had fallen apart. Photo: Michael Rayner


In an interview with The Age on December 26, Mr Sumner vowed all creditors would be paid. "Not one vendor or one buyer will lose $1 in this process," he said.

But the BDO statement made no reference to whether the company’s 400 creditors will get any of their money back, and what has happened to proceeds due to vendors from past auctions.

The statement said all vendors who had consigned goods to Mossgreen for sale would be contacted and arrangements made for return of the goods.

However, BDO said it would conduct a stocktake before returning goods. A timeline was not given.

Toorak businessman Jack Gringlas’ family company Jadig Investments is the biggest creditor, being owed $6 million.

It is believed that one major vendor is owed $1.75 million and another is owed about $1 million.

A Sydney family is owed more than $450,000 from art sold at Mossgreen in December.

Many other ‘‘mum and dad’’ and collector vendors are owed a few thousand or tens of thousands of dollars.

Staff were told at a meeting at Mossgreen’s headquarters in Melbourne's Armadale on Wednesday that 25 Victorian employees had lost their jobs. Across Mossgreen outlets, more than 50 staff will go.

One employee said staff were angry and upset that previous assurances by Mr Sumner - that the company would be saved and no staff would lose their jobs - had not proved correct. ‘‘They’re all upset. They’ve been promised, so many times, by Paul [Sumner] so many things.

He said there was disbelief. In recent weeks, ‘‘the people who were getting worried, he’d say, 'No mate, you’ve got no need to worry,' and that he had plans to save the company''.


Mr Sumner told Fairfax Media he was ''personally and professionally distressed by what’s happened, for our staff and for our vendors, clients and creditors".

He said he had had a rescue deal, with investors, lined up, but it fell apart.

''I had no option but to tell the administrators that I couldn’t get a successful deed of company arrangement [restructure proposal] in place within the time frame that I had.’’

Asked if creditors would now get the money owed to them, he said: ‘‘I will do everything in my power to help creditors, to maximise what they receive.’’

Earlier this week, Mossgreen’s Auckland saleroom, Mossgreen-Webb’s, shut down, and earlier this month its Woollahra, Sydney, premises closed.

Peter Rowland and Mossgreen have closed the tearooms they jointly ran in Armadale. Mossgreen was founded in 2004 by Mr Sumner and wife Amanda Swanson, and in recent years it enjoyed swift expansion - including acquiring other auction houses - bankrolled by Mr Gringlas.

But Mr Gringlas sold his part of the business back to Mr Sumner and Ms Swanson six months ago. Mr Sumner has attributed the company’s financial woes to its rapid expansion and to issues associated with Mr Gringlas' withdrawal.

Mr Gringlas denied his actions were related to the collapse.

The statement from BDO said, ‘‘BDO recognises that the closure of the business is extremely disappointing to all parties affected by it. ‘‘BDO will be working with staff, vendors, creditors and other stakeholders to ensure that the impacts of closure are minimised.’’

It said offers to buy the business would be considered, with expressions of interest sought.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by Global Administrator »

https://www.antiquestradegazette.com/news/2018/australia-s-m ... -be-found/

17 Jan 2018

“We have never traded insolvent ... "
WHY this Sumner clown keeps waffling these wacky things to the media astounds me. :?:

There will be a bunch of lawyers representing all sorts of affected vendors owed from $1.75m downwards (Gringlas $A6m not included) who will be using these public quotes to boil him in oil I am sure.

Maybe Sumner needs to buy a Dictionary?

HOW can a smallish company owing about $A10m in excess of their assets NOT be "Trading whilst insolvent"?? Can any accountant here educate me on that?

I hope a group of those who lost big money get a class action initiated, so that Paul Sumner and his wife, who were founders, and co-owners, and co-directors, lose their home and all their assets.

Society cannot allow this sort of brazen stuff to occur, with no meaningful penalty. OR it will occur again. :roll:

This Sumner STILL appears to be in total denial over the Global mess and huge personal losses to innocent collectors he presided over. Promising cheerfully only weeks back, in all forms of media "not one cent, or one job will be lost" and despite now being just sacked himself, is still bleating that mossgreen was "never trading whilst insolvent." He is on another planet. :roll:
Image

Image

Image
https://asic.gov.au/regulatory-resources/insolvency/insolvenc ... t-trading/

And Kyie Jolley, CFO at mossgreen and Doug Harris at mossgreen were doubtless drawing mega salaries all 2017 and surely must wear some of the blame here too?
Image

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by BigSaint »

Something I posted on this thread which is relevant here:

Velvet Collectable Auctions Sydney now in formal Liquidation
http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=68129&f=10
BigSaint wrote:Insolvent trading is knowing that you can't pay your liabilities but continuing to incur debt knowing you can't pay those liabilities.

The fact that Peter has been owed since June 2015 is evidence of that. Dishonoured cheques is another. Unpaid PAYG tax (previously known as group tax), unpaid GST & unpaid superannuation are others.

When the liquidator produces his Statement of Affairs, it would seem likely that the ATO & Employee Super Funds will be high on the list.

The ATO may issue director penalty notices which may make the directors personally liable for the PAYG tax. After the company has been liquidated the liquidator will report to ASIC whether there has been insolvent trading.

If there has, it means the Directors can be held personally responsible for the debts of the company.

It is then up to ASIC to decide whether the directors should be be pursued for the debts of the company. Unfortunately this does not have a lot of success as the directors tend to be bankrupts.

So this is a long way down the track as these things take time & take, as Glen says, a lot of Liquidators fees.

Brad
And this is why I posed this question to MJ's pet yesterday:
You ask us to do some maths but you are far more knowledgeable about Mossgreen Auctions than me. Can you, starting with the last auction in December & working backwards, work out how far we need to go back to reach the $5.8m plus 15% buyers commission, so another $1m there, therefore gross sales of $6.8m :?: This will give us an indication how long Mossgreen are taking to pay their vendors.......

So if you MJ's pet tell us how far back we have to go, to come up to $A6.8m in gross sales of auctions of all types.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by GJ50 »

BigSaint wrote: And this is why I posed this question to MJ's pet yesterday:
You ask us to do some maths but you are far more knowledgeable about Mossgreen Auctions than me. Can you, starting with the last auction in December & working backwards, work out how far we need to go back to reach the $5.8m plus 15% buyers commission, so another $1m there, therefore gross sales of $6.8m :?: This will give us an indication how long Mossgreen are taking to pay their vendors.......

So if you MJ's pet tell us how far back we have to go, to come up to $A6.8m in gross sales of auctions of all types.

Brad :)
MJ has gone very quiet since 6PM last night.

In fact no-one in Tassie knows of him, not that he mentions much about himself in his intro to the board.

Though he has an interesting comment "The board is now 1 closer to 20,000 members!."

Something I didn't know.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by Global Administrator »

GJ50 wrote: Though he has an interesting comment "The board is now 1 closer to 20,000 members!."

Something I didn't know.

GJ50
Gary, the board passed 18,000 members earlier this week, so of course each new member gets us 1 closer to the 20,000 magic number - basic maths. :mrgreen:

Some members might be surprised at just how much data I can access from the enormous Admin back-end we have here on this board.

I can see there exactly where EVERY post of the half million+ posts we have here was made from over 10 years. And the Telco being used, and even the GPS co-ordinates of device.

Indeed I can see see the business or exact organisation or even the building many were made from, including some being discussed here. <<coff>> :lol: :lol: :lol:

All that was examined yesterday by Moderators, and no issues that I can see, but we ARE far more vigilant than many might suspect in such matters. :)

GJ50's last post I can see for instance was via made Optus static Broadband, from Greensborough Victoria etc.

Latitude: -37.7 (37° 42′ 0.00″ S)
Longitude: 145.1 (145° 5′ 60.00″ E)
Postal Code: 3088

:)
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by traralgon3844 »

When Gary Watson (who is out of pocket a reported $100,000 as a result of this sorry saga) ran Prestige Auctions there was never a hint of a problem.

Prestige morphed into Prestige at Mossgreen when Gary was bought out if that is the correct term.

The vendor terms and conditions are still on the Prestige at Mossgreen web page and other links on that page take you directly to Mossgreen pages, so one would assume that these terms and conditions are current.

https://www.stampboards.com/images/prestigephilately/services/vterms2.php

Take note of condition 19: PAYMENT. Importantly, Not later than 42 days. Anyone hanging out for payment after 6 weeks at Mossgreen was being generous or foolish.

One would expect terms and conditions like this in the other Mossgreen departments.

I won't bore you with the full terms and conditions unless requested.

Image

Image

If anyone wants to download Auction Catalogues as a PDF file for reference, I would do it sooner rather than later. We saw what happened to Torsten's site/images.

https://www.stampboards.com/images/prestigephilately/catalogue.php?auctionnum=204
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by Michael Eastick »

If anyone wants to download Auction Catalogues as a PDF file for reference, I would do it sooner rather than later. We saw what happened to Torsten's site/images.
A hardware issue that is being worked on as I type this, hopefully up again in next couple of days.It just happened to occur just before the Christmas break at Mossgreen, I can confirm this.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by Global Administrator »

traralgon3844 wrote:
If anyone wants to download Auction Catalogues as a PDF file for reference, I would do it sooner rather than later. We saw what happened to Torsten's site/images.

http://www.stampboards.com/images/prestigephilately/catalogue.php?auctionnum=204
Good point Paul as the Tech Heads got sacked their Wednesday too I understand so any of their sites could do a Torsten.

I use these past sales a great deal for research and it would be tragic to see all that data and knowledge vanish but we are not in sane times there now. :roll:

I am up to my eyeballs typing my 'Stamp News' column on absolute deadline. If any member has a similar interest to save these as PDFs please privately email me and let me know as I'd love a set for reference. They are pretty up to date - only a few sales 2017 missing and they too are gettable NOW on mossgreen site.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by Global Administrator »

traralgon3844 wrote: The vendor terms and conditions are still on the Prestige at Mossgreen web page and other links on that page take you directly to Mossgreen pages, so one would assume that these terms and conditions are current.

https://www.stampboards.com/images/prestigephilately/services/vterms2.php

Take note of condition 19: PAYMENT. Importantly, Not later than 42 days. Anyone hanging out for payment after 6 weeks at Mossgreen was being generous or foolish.

One would expect terms and conditions like this in the other Mossgreen departments.
Actually - NO.

They were Gary's terms.

A member here kindly emailed me HIS detailed mossgreen vendor advice today. He was charged 17.5% vendor fee and presumably also this total BS 2.5% "insurance free" i.e. 20%, PLUS GST = 22% - on top of the 26.5% buyers fee they gouged, and these guys STILL lost $10m!

Anyway it clearly says payment 60 days.

So all October Vendors - Watson family included - SHOULD have been paid before Admin moved in to stop monies on Dec 21.
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Image
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by timbromania »

traralgon3844 wrote:
If anyone wants to download Auction Catalogues as a PDF file for reference, I would do it sooner rather than later. We saw what happened to Torsten's site/images.
I was trying to save some of those auctions including Tom Frommer's, which I was looking at just a few days ago, but now get:
server disabled - please contact sam@bidpath.com to re-activate
.

I hope these are restored.

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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by Allanswood »

Which Auction number was it? I'm having no trouble at all downloading.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by Lakatoi 4 »

A situation where printed catalogues are always handy, they never disappear into the ether :idea:

I have to admit that the philatelic catalogues Mossgreen sent out were superb and are great references for collectors. They are not unlike Gary's Prestige Philately single vendor catalogues, Peter Troy's and Tim Rybak's auction catalogues come to mind.
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by Global Administrator »

timbromania wrote:
I was trying to save some of those auctions including Tom Frommer's, which I was looking at just a few days ago, but now get:
server disabled - please contact sam@bidpath.com to re-activate
.

I hope these are restored.
I see that too sadly.

WHO is going to pay to restore then???!!!! You think the Administrator gives one hoot?? They are gone forever sadly.

I urge anyone with some time to grab these and grab them FAST. (And let me know if you manage it!)

http://www.stampboards.com/images/prestigephilately/

Gary *MAY* well have some legal say over these but who knows? 10,000s of hours of knowledge here.

Sadly wayback machine has NONE of them archived re data inside it seems -

https://web.archive.org/web/20180118034515/http://www.stampb ... ephilately
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Re: Mossgreen Auctions Australia under Administration. Looks

Post by Allanswood »

And I repeat, I'm not getting that, I can download at will and have just grabbed Frommers catalogue 114 pages.

Go to the Flipbook and click download.

http://www.mossgreen.com.au/content/catalogues/MG136_Cat_Flipbook/?page=1

Try it, it took about 30 seconds for me to do!

However, while I already have most anyway, I'm going to bed!
Greg - Looking for Goulburn Australia Cancels and Grangemouth Scotland Cancels and Covers
Member of the S.T.A.M.P Club for Slightly Twisted And Mad Philatelists - Motto: "Bring back the lick!"

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