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Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 12 Sep 2020 00:31
by Temora22
Dick,

Do you think it is possible that a 1/- Lyre stamp may have been affixed at the time of posting and has later fallen off? 1/6d was the rate for the Horseshoe route service applicable in August 1940.

Regards,

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 12 Sep 2020 00:44
by roninrr
Temora22

I’m sure you are right now that I examine it more closely - lines of slogan stop at left of stamp.

Thanks

Dick Roennfeldt

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 12 Sep 2020 12:39
by MJ's pet
Temora22 wrote:
12 Sep 2020 00:31
Do you think it is possible that a 1/- Lyre stamp may have been affixed at the time of posting and has later fallen off? 1/6d was the rate for the Horseshoe route service applicable in August 1940.


Yes. Or steamed off by a collector.

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 18 Sep 2020 09:29
by agondocz
Perhaps an interesting notice:
sb_sept202013.jpg
sb_sept202013c.jpg
The notice concerned the removal of a name from a voters' list.

The notice was postmarked on 10 JUL 16 and mailed to a local address in Richmond, Victoria.

The postmark includes "Paid at Richmond" and "12½". I am unsure of the meaning of the latter. There is also a "20 POSTED" cachet underneath the "Not Known by / Letter Carriers / Richmond" cachet.

A very fragile notice!

Best wishes,
AndrewG

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 18 Sep 2020 15:10
by MJ's pet
AndrewG wrote:The postmark includes "Paid at Richmond" and "12½". I am unsure of the meaning of the latter.


Possibly 12.30PM.

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 18 Sep 2020 15:38
by agondocz
Hi MJ's pet,

Thank you, that is something that I had not considered.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 19 Sep 2020 12:04
by agondocz
Hi,

An airmail cover from Australia to the United States in 1940:
sb_sept202014a.jpg
sb_sept202014b.jpg
The cover was franked with a 2d KGVI, a 6d Kookaburra and a 1/6d Hermes for a total of 2/2d. This may have paid the fee for the airmail rate to England, surface rate to New York City and then the American airmail rate to Los Angeles.

There is a faint 9 FEB 1940 postmark from Melbourne.

The cover includes a large three dots censorship tape and a Passed by / Censor 24 cachet.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 19 Sep 2020 12:37
by MJ's pet
The censor at the left is Australian of course. Probably US censor tape at the right now missing (that very thin cellophane type) which has left a residue.

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 19 Sep 2020 13:13
by agondocz
Hi MJ's pet,

The Americans liked to use cellophane, I guess.

Thanks,
AndrewG

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 19 Sep 2020 13:56
by roninrr
Andrew

Breckon confirms your surmise that 2/2d paid for airmail to UK via Singapore, surface carriage across the Atlantic and then air mail across USA.

A rather tortuous route with some uncertainty with U-boat activity just getting started in the Atlantic.

The sender had a couple of other more expensive options, 3/2d all the way air mail via UK and 4/8d air carriage across the Pacific.

Perhaps he was saving money?

Still not a bad time of 5 weeks for delivery (as good as today).

If he was saving money why not a standard 3d surface across the Pacific which would probably beat that?

I have a couple of surface rate covers using a 3d KGVI which show a 4 week delivery time from Sydney to Milwaukee so Los Angeles would be shorter.

An intriguing item.

Dick Roennfeldt

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 19 Sep 2020 14:02
by roninrr
I meant to include this cover which most closely matches the date of your cover. Date of receipt stamp on front.
0194.pu.c.jpg
Dick Roennfeldt

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 19 Sep 2020 14:26
by agondocz
Hello Dick,

Your cover does not appear to have been censored and yet mine was. Perhaps yours was to a company, mine to a private person?

I also like the biplane that appears on the Los Angeles backstamp.

Thanks for your comments.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 20 Sep 2020 14:11
by agondocz
Hi,

An Australian wartime cover:
2020-09-19_225516.jpg
The cover was mailed from Brisbane and postmarked on 25 SEP 1944. Apparently it arrived in Oakland, California on 11-6-44.

The 1/6 Hermes may have overpaid the ½ to 1oz airmail to the United States in 1944 by 1d. The rate at the time was 9d for the first ½oz then 8d for each subsequent ½oz. From Breckon, The Australian Philatelist, October 1988, pg 56.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 21 Sep 2020 03:08
by RogerE
Two comments on the post by AndrewG = agondocz

1. The red '1' on the CENSOR label indicates censorship in Brisbane.

2. "The cover was mailed from Brisbane and postmarked on 25 SEP 1944. Apparently it arrived in Oakland, California on 11-6-44."
The dates stated are in two different conventions. When the month is shown as a word abbreviation (as in 25 SEP 1944) there is no ambiguity. But when it is just shown as a number (as in 11-6-44) there is usually ambiguity about whether the American date convention or the British date convention is being used. In the context with 25 SEP 1944 as the posting date, uncertainty is removed in this case. However, why not add an explicit clarification? I think it is clearer and more user-friendly to add something along these lines, which does not require the reader to repeat the deductive reasoning which the commentator has presumably had to do, so knows he can help others skip the necessity:
"Apparently it arrived in Oakland, California on 11-6-44 [= NOV 6, 1944]."

/RogerE :D

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 21 Sep 2020 05:12
by agondocz
Thanks RogerE,

I will remember to do so.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 21 Sep 2020 12:19
by RogerE
:D /RogerE

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 24 Sep 2020 12:26
by agondocz
Hi,

I am not sure about this and the next registration envelope:
sb_sept202015a.jpg
sb_sept202015b.jpg
The 1/½d envelope was mailed from Wittenoom, Western Australia to Perth, also in Western Australia. The envelope was postmarked 5 JE 56. The registration fee was 9d and the domestic rate was 3½d, thus 1/½d.

Question: does the 3d QEII pay for the additional £5-10 compensation or overpay by ½d the 2½d for the 1-2oz domestic rate?

Best wishes,
AndrewG

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 24 Sep 2020 12:37
by agondocz
This registration envelope:
sb_sept202016a.jpg
sb_sept202016b.jpg
is a 1/½d registration envelope franked with an additional 6d Kookaburra. The envelope was postmarked on 5 SE 56 from Muree, New South Wales and was mailed to Elwood, Victoria.

The 1/½d already includes 3½d for the domestic rate. The 6d could include payment for the ½-1oz airmail rate or for the up to ½d rate plus 3d for the £5- £10 compensation rate. For me a bit of a puzzle.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 24 Sep 2020 12:56
by roninrr
Andrew

I reckon it would be for compensation notwithstanding lack of marking identifying that additional compensation was payable.

Something ordered from Wittenoom in the far NW and paid for (by cash or cheque) from Boans Department Store mail order catalogue.

Envelope does not look stressed or fattened to suggest it was overweight.

Dick Roennfeldt

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 24 Sep 2020 13:07
by roninrr
Andrew

For your second cover I’m going for the double airmail fee.

These printed registered envelopes often exceeded the 1/2 oz weight thus incurring a second air mail fee if used.

Dick Roennfeldt

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 24 Sep 2020 13:37
by agondocz
Hello Dick,

I appreciate your comments. I thought as much for the second envelope, although I must admit I was hoping that I was wrong.

Thank you,
AndrewG

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 13 Oct 2020 07:14
by Lundy
A couple more I bought following a few I added to the decimal covers thread,

A 1/5d rate calendar cover sent October 1966 to England
IMG_20201010_0003.jpg
and another large 1/5d rate cover sent 1 Nov 1963 with the 1/- Colombo Plan stamp

Lundy :)

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 31 Oct 2020 11:38
by Kiwidude
Warburton Sanitaritium and Hospital Cover, warburton,Victoria,Australia

2/- Aboriginal Art to Takoma Park, Maryland, USA
.
IMG_0003.jpg
Not sure what the 1238 is about. nothing on rear.

Peter

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 31 Oct 2020 12:29
by abutukit
agondocz wrote:
24 Sep 2020 12:26
Hi,

I am not sure about this and the next registration envelope:
Image
Image
The 1/½d envelope was mailed from Wittenoom, Western Australia to Perth, also in Western Australia. The envelope was postmarked 5 JE 56. The registration fee was 9d and the domestic rate was 3½d, thus 1/½d.

Question: does the 3d QEII pay for the additional £5-10 compensation or overpay by ½d the 2½d for the 1-2oz domestic rate?

Best wishes,
AndrewG
There is quite a lot of interest in items from (today) degazetted ghost towns such as Wittenoom.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wittenoom,_Western_Australia

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 31 Oct 2020 14:00
by Kiwidude
Queen's Memorial Infectious Diseases Hospital, Fairfield,Victoria.

Sent using Australian 2d Red Silver Jubilee to Somerset,England.
.
IMG_0001.jpg

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 31 Oct 2020 16:16
by MJ's pet
Nice Lundy and Kiwidude. :)

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 01 Nov 2020 14:08
by agondocz
Hi,

I am not sure which thread to post this cover:
sb_2020oct02.jpg

I did see another example at: Red Paid Brisbane, which was posted by Browny.
Image
A better example, but at least now I know what to look for.

The Brisbane red paid marking was for 1½d, and the cover was mailed to Newcastle. Date not known.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 10 Nov 2020 14:17
by agondocz
Hi,

Unlike most of the covers on this thread this one is philatelic:
sb_2020oct04.jpg
I am familiar with Mr. Theo Klewitz as a collector of Yemeni covers, both Republican and Royalist. It was a surprise to see this Australian cover addressed to him (by him as well?).

The cover was postmarked on 21 FE 66 by the Melbourne Philatelic Bureau. If my math is correct, the 8/10d assorted stamps paid the 2/ registration fee, plus 6/10d for the 1-1½oz airmail rate to then West Germany. Overpaid by 1d.

I am curious whether the 2/6 Aborigine is from the emergency printing.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 10 Nov 2020 17:05
by Didge
agondocz wrote:
10 Nov 2020 14:17
Hi,

Unlike most of the covers on this thread this one is philatelic:
Image
I am familiar with Mr. Theo Klewitz as a collector of Yemeni covers, both Republican and Royalist. It was a surprise to see this Australian cover addressed to him (by him as well?).

The cover was postmarked on 21 FE 66 by the Melbourne Philatelic Bureau. If my math is correct, the 8/10d assorted stamps paid the 2/ registration fee, plus 6/10d for the 1-1½oz airmail rate to then West Germany. Overpaid by 1d.

I am curious whether the 2/6 Aborigine is from the emergency printing.

Best wishes,
AndrewG
Andrew,

Certainly the right date range. Glenn will be able to tell you about the emergency printing. I am not colour blind but do struggle in this area.

I have a couple of them on cover that I can compare with if I have the cover in hand. One is slightly damaged and one is philatelic. They are very rare commercially used on cover. Rod did not have one in his collection.

Tim

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 10 Nov 2020 19:24
by Temora22
Hi AndrewG,

Almost impossible to tell from a scan, of course, but if I was to hazzard a guess, based on the colouring I see on my pc monitor, it looks like the usual sepia/ cream paper rather than the light sepia/whiter paper to me.

Regards,

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 11 Nov 2020 11:38
by MJ's pet
Thanks for posting agondocz.

Tell you what, you don't often see the 1951 1/6d Foundation of Commonwealth often on commercial cover.

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 12 Nov 2020 17:19
by BruceK
Australia 1951 Cover with 1/6d Foundation of the Commonwealth stamp ACSC 283
Australia 1951 Cover with 1/6d Foundation of the Commonwealth stamp ACSC 283


Cover to England using the 1/6d Foundation of the Commonwealth stamp paying the air mail rate.

Sent from the Leather Supply Co. Sydney Australia on 28 June 1951 to the Boak Currying Co, Ravenscraig Works, Walsall England.

Leather Supply Co. Pty. Ltd. 30 Market Street Sydney, N.S.W.
Leather Supply Co. Pty. Ltd. 30 Market Street Sydney, N.S.W.

Advertisement for Boak Walsall Ltd.
Advertisement for Boak Walsall Ltd.

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 12 Nov 2020 17:48
by MJ's pet
Nice one BruceK :)

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 14 Nov 2020 13:46
by agondocz
Hi,

I appreciate the comments about the cover. If nothing else I can use it to compare with a possible emergency printing 2/6 Aborigine issue.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 14 Nov 2020 15:54
by MJ's pet
It would be worth checking what issue the 1/6d Foundation was replaced by and when. Probably a short issue life.

I gather this would be found paying the single 1/6d airmail rate to the UK as depicted. Even that seems tough and anything else probably really tough.

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 14 Nov 2020 20:44
by roninrr
The 1/6d Commonwealth Foundation commemorative had a fairly short life for its particular postal usage of about 15 months when the standard international airmail rate of 1/6d was increased to 2/- on 1 August 1952.

Until then it can be found on airmail letters to UK, Europe, USA/Canada (see below) and 'Other Asian countries' although I am yet to secure one used for this latter destination.

The airmail postcard rate to South America was also 1/6d from 1 August 1952 so that would be possible.

The next 1/6d stamp was ACSC 366 'Christmas Bells' issued 3 February 1960 after the 'Other Asian Countries' airmail letter rate returned on 14 July 1958. Although possible, I doubt the 1/6d Commonwealth Foundation stamp lasted until then.

0283.pu.oa1.jpg

0283.pu.oa2.jpg
0283.pu.oa7.jpg

Dick Roennfeldt

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 15 Nov 2020 08:23
by Temora22
Dick,

Three good covers from 1951 - squarely within the period of issue.Agree the other uses you mention would be a challenge to find.

Remember that the 1/6d Hermes stamp (either with or without watermark) was available from 1949 to 1960.

Are you able to show any solo examples of the 5½d Commonwealth Foundation commemorative? I don't collect the KGVI period but have always thought this stamp to be elusive on commercial cover.

Regards,

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 15 Nov 2020 11:27
by MJ's pet
Temora22 wrote:
15 Nov 2020 08:23
Remember that the 1/6d Hermes stamp (either with or without watermark) was available from 1949 to 1960.


Yes, this is what I was getting at. The use of the 1/6d Hermes would have swamped the 1/6d Foundation.

Unintended use other than the 1/6d airmail rate should be looked for also, e.g. internal parcels.

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 15 Nov 2020 11:28
by MJ's pet
Nice covers roninrr, especially the one to Budapest. :)

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 21 Nov 2020 15:06
by agondocz
Hi,
sb_2020oct08.jpg
A 3/3d airmail and registered cover was mailed from the Caulfield South post office in Victoria to New York City and was postmarked on 26 SE 58.

The cover was franked with three 8d Tasman Sea issues, which paid the 2/ airmail fee and two 7½d QEII issues, which paid the 1/3d registration fee.

Best wishes,
AndrewG

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 21 Nov 2020 15:15
by MJ's pet
The 8d Tasman Flight stamp is a bit unusual on a commercial cover.

The address:

Riverside Drive is a scenic north–south thoroughfare in the Manhattan borough of New York City. The boulevard runs on the Upper West Side of Manhattan, generally parallel to the Hudson River from 72nd Street to near the George Washington Bridge at 181st Street. North of 96th Street, Riverside Drive is a wide divided boulevard.

At several locations, a serpentine local street diverges from the main road, providing access to the residential buildings. Some of the city's most coveted addresses are located along its route.
riverside drive NY.jpg

Re: Show your Australia Pre-Decimal stamps on Commercial Covers

Posted: 21 Nov 2020 15:22
by MJ's pet
Further to the above:

New York, U.S., Index to Petitions for Naturalization filed in New York City, 1792-1989, CITIZENSHIP RECORDS

Name: Stephanie Maria Nedela
Birth: 28/04/1894 (28 Apr 1894)
Civil: 20/06/1949 (20 Jun 1949)
Residence: New York, New York
nedela.jpg