Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemoratives

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Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemoratives

Post by JonEboy »

Something said by ViccyVFU on another thread, What Were Your Favourite Royal Mail (GB) Stamps of 2019?, got me thinking. This is the quote that drove me to start this thread.
ViccyVFU wrote:One thing that did occur to me (whilst chopping and formatting this lot), is that during the whole of 2019 (where I received about 5 or 6 items of mail a day)...
"Only two of these I received on cover" (The Christmas first and second class ones).
Not ONE of the commems ..... (All the rest were Machin NVI's, or pre-printed indicia).

So I'm thinking "almost all modern usage must realistically be contrived, and all genuine commercially used is a very rare beast indeed".
I wondered if that were actually true or if this was just because of the small sample he was observing.

Then I went back over my covers received in 2019 - not a single one with a stamp issued in 2019 :shock:

So, the idea of this thread is to show scans of any covers you have received with any of the Royal Mail GB 2020 commemorative stamp issues, where the usage and the cancel is in keeping with both the year and time of issue. In other words, does the cover contain a commemorative stamp that has been used in the way it was originally intended?

Hopefully, this could be a record of any covers received by any members worldwide where the sender has bought the relevant commemorative stamp at the PO and popped it on the envelope.

Of course, every new thread needs an image to accompany it, but given that I haven't received any yet with the Video Games on (issued 21st January), here's one in today's post which shows the issue we are facing;

Image

A Christmas stamp being used post-Christmas and not a commemorative. Nice slogan cancel though...

Over to you. This is what the schedule looks like;

2020 Stamp Programme

21 January - Video Games
20 February - Visions of the Universe (200th Anniversary of the Royal Astronomical Society)
17 March - James Bond
7 April - The Romantic Poets
8 May - End of World War II (coincides with London2020 exhibition 2-9 May)
28 May - Coronation Street (TV soap opera)
18 June - Roman Britain
9 July - Queen (Music Giants IV)
30 July - Palace of Westminster (Royal Palaces series)
18 August - Sherlock (TV ?)
3 September - Rupert Bear (launched November 1920)
1 October - Brilliant Bugs
3 November - Christmas
13 November - Star Trek

Ideally, to qualify as being in period and commercial usage, the Video stamp would have to be received between 22nd January and 21st February 2020 with a legible cancel, and so on.

It will be interesting to see exactly how many covers we can record.

Jon
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by norvic »

Well, Glenn and Parisboy will get the ones I posted yesterday with Video Games stamps on. no reason why they shouldn't be commercial, that's what was on sale at the PO - although I had mine on 21 December!
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by JonEboy »

norvic wrote:Well, Glenn and Parisboy will get the ones I posted yesterday with Video Games stamps on. no reason why they shouldn't be commercial, that's what was on sale at the PO - although I had mine on 21 December!
Exactly. If they are used and cancelled in the relevant time frame and were not philatelically contrived, then they will fit this thread.

Let's see who gets theirs first!

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by ViccyVFU »

I was talking about this last week to my postie, and he said "he'd keep an eye out for them".

He got back today with some stats -
Of the 13 boxes of post he is delivering on his round today, only two pieces have a stamp on (both Machin NVI).

He has not seen any of the video games series yet ....

So I have Post Offices that don't sell them, and posties that don't deliver them.

No wonder they are such rare beasts .....

(If you are collecting 2020 in "mindless mint", you should switch to find a commercial use for them, and collect only fine used, or desist altogether, with immediate effect).

Make stamp collecting fun again !!

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by JonEboy »

ViccyVFU wrote: (If you are collecting 2020 in "mindless mint", you should switch to find a commercial use for them, and collect only fine used, or desist altogether, with immediate effect).

Make stamp collecting fun again !!
Agreed!

I'm betting we get less than a dozen examples to this thread in 2020. If we even achieve that it will be a miracle....

Tomorrow's postal history everyone, and rare as hens teeth.

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by norvic »

I'm preparing some Maximum Cards for a client in China. He doesn't need all the stamps from the Tomb Raider miniature sheet.
Image
I will use one on the next customer order, this one going to the Czech Republic; it's 38gr so its the second weight step of £1.60. So I'm using the £1.55 - 20g rate for Worldwide letters - plus a 5p make-up Machin.
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by JonEboy »

It will be interesting if they add the cover to this thread when it arrives.

Meanwhile, in an attempt to force the issue, I have purchased;

1 x 1st Class (UK)
2 x 2nd Class (UK)
1 x £1.55 (Worldwide 10g letter)
1 x £1.60 (Europe and WW 100g letter)

First to reply on this thread asking for a cover will get them. There will be something in the letter, probably a letter from me, so this will be genuine postal usage, the only contrived but may be that we are both stamp collectors.

At least we can see some commercial use and as has been highlighted on other threads, this kind of postal history will become valuable over time.

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by Philexx »

I wouldn't mind one of those covers Jon? Very collectable for me as you know.
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

Too slow for your offer JonEboy but I think getting any of the commems on postcard is going to be harder still !
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by norvic »

JonEboy wrote:It will be interesting if they add the cover to this thread when it arrives.

Meanwhile, in an attempt to force the issue, I have purchased;

1 x 1st Class (UK)
2 x 2nd Class (UK)
1 x £1.55 (Worldwide 10g letter)
1 x £1.60 (Europe and WW 100g letter)

Jon
WW 100 g rate is £2.30; £1.60 is only for Europe.

But given Philexx and Ubobo are in different regions, that’s both airmail stamps taken care of.
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by JonEboy »

norvic wrote: WW 100 g rate is £2.30; £1.60 is only for Europe.

But given Philexx and Ubobo are in different regions, that’s both airmail stamps taken care of.
Thanks norvic, wondered if I'd made an error.

So, yes, Philexx and Ubobo, I have both your addresses so mail on its way.

Just need three recipients in the UK.

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by Philexx »

Thanks Jon, I will send you a cover from here too.

Also I was just thinking how close Brexit is and I was wondering if one or both of you could send me a simple cover on Brexit day? Will of course send you nice cover or two in return?

Do you think there will be a slogan cancel for the day?
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by JonEboy »

I can happily wait until Friday to pop your letter in the post, thereby getting not only last day cancel but also genuine usage.

As to the slogan cancel, I have no ideas, that's more norvic's area than mine but personally I doubt they would, as whilst they might please 17m people they would, at the same stroke, annoy another 17m people :lol: It's a no win game!

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by Philexx »

Very true Jon! And thanks again.
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by Philexx »

A wonderful cover/letter arrived today Jon. Many thanks.

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by JonEboy »

Philexx wrote:A wonderful cover/letter arrived today Jon. Many thanks.
You are more than welcome. You should find that on the reverse is a clearer cancel showing that it was actually posted on 31st January 2020 thereby being a 'Brexit' cancel and genuine in period usage as it really did have genuine letter in it :D (OK I'm ignoring the 'philatelic' bit...)

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by JonEboy »

And mine arrived today and in so doing, answered a previous question. There was no Brexit slogan cancellation;

Image
Image
Instead we have "World Cancer Day 4th February".

But despite the interesting diversion, we are still awaiting our first genuine in period usage of a GB commemorative stamp in 2020....

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by Philexx »

JonEboy wrote:
Philexx wrote:A wonderful cover/letter arrived today Jon. Many thanks.
You are more than welcome. You should find that on the reverse is a clearer cancel showing that it was actually posted on 31st January 2020 thereby being a 'Brexit' cancel and genuine in period usage as it really did have genuine letter in it :D (OK I'm ignoring the 'philatelic' bit...)

Jon
A lovely Brexit Day cancel :D

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by ViccyVFU »

Hankmccoy may have our first real contender of the year,

First shown here ....

https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=45789&p=6285206#p6284208
Hankmccoy wrote:
Image

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by JonEboy »

ViccyVFU wrote:Hankmccoy may have our first real contender of the year,
I'd say it looks like we have a winner....

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by OldDuffer1 »

JonEboy wrote: I'm betting we get less than a dozen examples to this thread in 2020. If we even achieve that it will be a miracle....

Tomorrow's postal history everyone, and rare as hens teeth.

Jon
If you are that keen on them what's to stop you sending covers to yourself, or if not acceptable, to friends? If you want to use rates higher than 1st or 2nd send a parcel! (Or does that then make them "philatelic"?- you won't be able to tell by looking at them!).

Of course, there is no guarantee they will be cancelled!

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by norvic »

I sent a tracked cover to a customer today which had both £1.55 stamps from the Tomb Raider MS. Mind you it also had 2 x 20g Europe booklet stamps which have been off sale for a decade, so clearly some philatelic input!
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by JonEboy »

OldDuffer1 wrote: If you are that keen on them what's to stop you sending covers to yourself, or if not acceptable, to friends? If you want to use rates higher than 1st or 2nd send a parcel! (Or does that then make them "philatelic"?- you won't be able to tell by looking at them!).

Of course, there is no guarantee they will be cancelled!
Indeed we could, but the idea of the thread was to see if we could get an idea of what proportion of mail in the UK actually uses the commemorative stamps, within period. And the answer it seems is not a lot.

No one took me up on the 1st and 2nd class offer of a cover and don't forget that in a week or so we get Visions of the Universe and we've so far found just one cover. And bear in mind we are philatelists, so if we can't find them without contriving a cover, that must surely be a sign of scarcity?

And as for cancelling, I'm lucky as my local PO are happy to cancel all my stuff but much of what is sent these days gets the slogan spray or the dreaded pen. Yet Gibbons still insist that fine used must have a CDS, which in the normal course of events is currently impossible.

We are, I think, fighting a losing battle for modern postal history.

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by ViccyVFU »

JonEboy wrote:We are, I think, fighting a losing battle for modern postal history.
We are still receiving mail, on a daily basis, so postal history exists ...
its just not the sort that matches "RM's sticker factory" timescales (and modern postal history collectors needs).

I am positive I will see the video games stamps as discount postage eventually, (probably next year), and will just use them up "well out of period".

But, by careful placing on bounce back sendings, I should still manage to find CDS copies (once removed from the envelope!).

Our postie has racked up "around 30 sightings of machin actual stamps" in the last two weeks (all NVI's - not one fixed value!), and showed me three Christmas 2019 ones (that presumably were just being used up).

Still "no sightings of the video game series" at all to report, yet.

Surely your perpetual chase of unobtainium is half the "fun"?

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by RobRoyH »

I just went out to the online Royal Mail shop.

My objective... mail order a half sheet or so of large current stamps to mail postcards home and abroad while I am in London in about 5 weeks.

It doesn’t seem possible! Full sets... presentation packs.... no way to just buy 20 to 30 commemoratives at the correct rate.
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by ViccyVFU »

RobRoyH wrote:My objective... mail order a half sheet or so of large current stamps to mail postcards home and abroad while I am in London in about 5 weeks.
Well, with the current issue of commemoratives, that's going to be a problem, as the correct rate for a postcard (under 10 grams) is £1.35 to all parts of the world, and there wasn't one at that rate in the last emission (or, indeed, the next, due out next week).

Plenty of £1.55, for the next rate up, however, if you want to send everyone 20g letters!

What you could do, which would look quite funky, is to put an NVI first and second class stamp on the card, and make it up with a 4p machin stamp, to make the full £1.35. (Be warned.... the two latest series of commemoratives appear to be "quite large stamps", but hopefully they'll still fit, as long as you can keep your "written part" short :D ).

You also need to be aware (/ watch out) that our Royal Mail "likes to raise prices in March" (last year, it was on 25th March).

Whilst using NVI's would protect the bulk of any increase, you could still find yourself with the odd penny here and there to make up correct rate. (However, If you are here before 20th March, that shouldn't be a problem for you).

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by RobRoyH »

Was there not an appropriate single in the Queen Victoria bicentennial set?

RM won’t let me buy a half sheet. It would be a topical match to our trip and hence add to the adventure.
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by norvic »

Viccyvfu. - there isn’t a 4p stamp, it would have to be 2x2p - or a 1.35 Machin.

RobRoy - RM will sell half sheets. I’m away but if you can wait til Monday I’ll tell you how or get them for you. Email me so I dint forget!
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by RobRoyH »

This is the little project I leave for in 5 weeks from today.

London 2020 – “The Ghost Map” Tour

I would like about 5 pairs each of all of these.

Image
2019 Great Britain – Queen Victoria
Nice on Postcards of Landmarks of Victorian London


Image
2019 Great Britain – Royal Navy
Nice on Postcards of a Military nature – Changing guards, etc.


Image
2019 Great Britain – D-Day

Or anything similar released this year obviously.


Unlike my own nation, the UK seems to issue a lot of interesting commemoratives at useful rates. But the online portal will only sell me philatelic products OR a 25 purple Machins at the £1.35 rate!

Image
RM Shop – International Postage and Make Up Values.

Pretty brain dead if you ask me. If you can help Please email me. I am looking for £40 to £50 GPB face value worth of very recent international postcard rate single £1.35 stamps.

If you can't buy them over the counter OR online... pretty much explains why these are seldom seen... the point of this thread.
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by peterh »

This envelope came in today's mail.

It enclosed a stamp purchase from an eBay seller, so I guess 'philatelically inspired', but well done to the seller for using in-period stamps rather than discount postage.

Has received a double impression of the inkjet cancel, but the date is 6th February.

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by Ubobo.R.O. »

Image
Dear Survey Persons, This envelope was found in Maggie Mailbox at 1:08pm today. Thankyou for sending. Terry.
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by norvic »

Here's one I spotted on Sophia's 'thank you' thread:
Image
So well done to fchd who has used at least 3 Video Games stamps AND had a nice cds on them. And well done to the PO in Newquay.
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by JonEboy »

norvic wrote:
So well done to fchd who has used at least 3 Video Games stamps AND had a nice cds on them. And well done to the PO in Newquay.
Indeed, bravo fchd :D
Ubobo.R.O. wrote: Dear Survey Persons, This envelope was found in Maggie Mailbox at 1:08pm today. Thankyou for sending. Terry.
Genuine in period usage Terry, treasure it :mrgreen:

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by norvic »

Yes, that solo use is very nice, especially with the arrival date at lower right
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by Canada stamper »

I received this from an eBay seller, sadly no postmark though. However, the orange barcoding below the stamp provides proof that it went through the post.

Image

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by Hankmccoy »

Image

Arrived today. And tomorrow is pancake day!

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by Canada stamper »

A cover from fellow SB member woomik:

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by JonEboy »

Nice to see there is some genuine usage out there. Hold onto these intact as they will be the gems of philately in the not too distant future I feel.
Canada stamper wrote:I received this from an eBay seller, sadly no postmark though. However, the orange barcoding below the stamp provides proof that it went through the post.
Jean
When I get any of these Jean I write on the back in pencil, the date it arrived. Not foolproof by any means but a record that it might be legitimate usage.

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by Hankmccoy »

Canada stamper wrote:I received this from an eBay seller, sadly no postmark though. However, the orange barcoding below the stamp provides proof that it went through the post.

Image

Jean
Luckily that one didn't get the dreaded pen cancel.

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by Philexx »

Thanks for the two covers plus letter Jon :D

Image

Image

Edit: would you be interested in a single cover swap of the new Germany Sesame Street stamp for a single James Bond? Most of us watched Sesame Street as a kid so I thought it might be of interest. Anyone else reading who would like one let me know.
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by JonEboy »

Philexx wrote:Thanks for the two covers plus letter Jon :D

Edit: would you be interested in a single cover swap of the new Germany Sesame Street stamp for a single James Bond? Most of us watched Sesame Street as a kid so I thought it might be of interest.
Indeed I would as I know someone who is a MASSIVE Sesame Street fan.

Glad the covers arrived intact, just a shame the second date slug isn't clear on the Video Games cover :(

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by Philexx »

Thta's great Jon, I will prepare something :D
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by JonEboy »

Incoming this week, this cover;

Image
Sadly, no cancels on the stamps so no proof of use in period, except....

Image
Image
On the back, the sender has their own date stamp, which clearly can't cope with 2020, but records it being sent on 6th March 2020. Not exactly 'in period' but close enough to qualify methinks...

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by ViccyVFU »

JonEboy wrote:Incoming this week, this cover;

Image
Sadly, no cancels on the stamps so no proof of use in period, except....
Well, if it were non trackable, my local PO would CTO them for me (but they can't do that on trackables).

Next choice would be to print off the confirmation of transit certificate ....
Image

https://www.royalmail.com/track-your-item#/
(I removed the personal details, but left enough of the signature to be an outline of a sitting cat, if you got bored!!).

Third choice ... dunno... but you might think of one!

I do think its sad that "the one thing we want the most, that's the cheapest for RM long term", is "the one option they seem unable to consistently choose".

Its also "quite frustrating".

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by norvic »

ViccyVFU wrote:Well, if it were non trackable, my local PO would CTO them for me (but they can't do that on trackables).
????
1. It’s not ‘trackable’ it isn’t scanned INTO the system, only on delivery.

2. If by ‘local PO’ you mean a sub-Post office that delivers, I can see the possible problems.
But this should have been cancelled at the office of posting.
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by ViccyVFU »

I think I may have confused some ....

When I receive unfranked mail, my local PO will (periodically) oblige with some cancellation marks "to make them all VFU" .... but they don't like tracked envelopes "as the cancellation mark would not tie back to the tracking".

(i.e. Where there is no evidence to the contrary, the package "could" have been posted at my local office).

I can, of course, remove all the tracking marks off the envelope, and get them "processed", as I only want the VFU stamps.

To their mind ("I think"), the per favours are just "tidying up a sloppy job".

Whilst it may seem madness to some "to cancel these", I find that modern VFU are worth more than I can buy (older) fresh mint in at.

Its a strange world!

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by JonEboy »

ViccyVFU wrote:
Next choice would be to print off the confirmation of transit certificate ....

(I removed the personal details, but left enough of the signature to be an outline of a sitting cat, if you got bored!!).
Thank you :!: Love the cat, much better than my approximate squiggle that passes for a signature on one of those hand held devices.

And I have now printed off the proof and will add it to the cover in the collection.
ViccyVFU wrote:
When I receive unfranked mail, my local PO will (periodically) oblige with some cancellation marks "to make them all VFU" .... but they don't like tracked envelopes "as the cancellation mark would not tie back to the tracking".

(i.e. Where there is no evidence to the contrary, the package "could" have been posted at my local office).

I can, of course, remove all the tracking marks off the envelope, and get them "processed", as I only want the VFU stamps.

To their mind ("I think"), the per favours are just "tidying up a sloppy job".

Whilst it may seem madness to some "to cancel these", I find that modern VFU are worth more than I can buy (older) fresh mint in at.

Its a strange world!
Absolutely agree with you on this. I have a large pile of freshly cancelled commemoratives and Machins, many from the 1970's, which arrived uncanceled. Like you, my local Postmaster is very accommodation and hand cancelled anything that I take in uncancelled on cover.

I think his view, like mine, is that it is the best revenue protection around as it definitely prevents re use.

Meanwhile I have a pile of neatly cancelled stamps which at some point will find their way into someone's collection.

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by norvic »

ViccyVFU wrote:I think I may have confused some ....

When I receive unfranked mail, my local PO will (periodically) oblige with some cancellation marks "to make them all VFU" .... but they don't like tracked envelopes "as the cancellation mark would not tie back to the tracking".

(i.e. Where there is no evidence to the contrary, the package "could" have been posted at my local office).

I can, of course, remove all the tracking marks off the envelope, and get them "processed", as I only want the VFU stamps.

To their mind ("I think"), the per favours are just "tidying up a sloppy job".

Whilst it may seem madness to some "to cancel these", I find that modern VFU are worth more than I can buy (older) fresh mint in at.

Its a strange world!
Thanks, yes I understand entirely.

Of course it is also possible to buy cancellation devices on eBay etc, so judicial positioning of the handstamp can create VFU without identifying the (probably closed) office. Is this forgery, or just saving the postmaster a job? :lol:
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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by ViccyVFU »

norvic wrote:Of course it is also possible to buy cancellation devices on eBay etc, so judicial positioning of the handstamp can create VFU without identifying the (probably closed) office. Is this forgery, or just saving the postmaster a job? :lol:
What, like "Diss" one? ....
Image

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Post-office-date-stamp/193370247738
or perhaps "Diss" other one? ...
Image

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Post-office-date-stamp/193376866382
Both available on eBay "right now"... to give you that "Normal for Norfolk" look and feel :D .

Then you have to match the ink (and bear in mind these are 30 year old "period relevant").

Its not really "forgery" until someone "creates something valuable, for advantage" (such as a pre-dated FDC).

(Some will say it is forgery of a postmark, and I have some sympathy with that view, but if its saving the PO any possible re-use, I can live with that).

In the scheme of things, any one paying silly money for this kind of "manufactured material" needs to practice more diligence.

Get your British CTO by the sheet load .....!

Its easier for me "just to ask my P.O." :D

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Re: Show us GB commercially used covers with 2020 Commemorat

Post by norvic »

ViccyVFU wrote:Then you have to match the ink (and bear in mind these are 30 year old "period relevant").
Actually my village postmaster uses MY inkpad, which is a craft almost instant dry pad (which happens to dry quickly on glass and glossy plastic as well).

He has had two self-inking datestamps (SID). One was the original for the office; when the year wheel expired he refused to pay the £100+ to have a new one and reverted to his old single-ring datestamp.

When he started outreach services he was supplied with another - which fell apart before reaching the end of its year wheel life. He now uses the single-ring datestamp on outreach and the old double-ring handstamp in the office. Neither produces a good impression because the inkpad is maybe 30 years old and I don't think he can get any ink for it. So when I wanted something done properly I took my own inkpad.

But most times I go to the crown office in Dereham where they have multiple SIDs - some of which are also well underinked!
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