creativityplus4, msksur68 - eBay seller to be beware of

fromdownunder · Post by **fromdownunder** » 01 Dec 2012 23:34

peterh wrote:These details are in the public domain online, although they may be out of date:

Creativityplus4
Millbrook Gdns

County: Essex
Locality: 2, Millbrook Gardens, Gidea Park, Romford, Essex.
Post Code: RM2 5RP
Mr S Suri
(Proprietor)

Tel: 07984 577966 or 07872 600841

Fax: 01708 753877

Mod Comment:

Peter, would you please provide a link to that public domain information.

Norm

birder · Post by **birder** » 02 Dec 2012 00:12

This man is an old crook -- Sunil Suri.

1. When he advertises in India, he claims to be based in Brazil --

http://www.stampsofindia.com/newssite/download/105.pdf
SUNIL SURI OF STAMPCHASE. We are the only Indian stamp dealer based in Brazil. We specialize in. India and Indian States

2. Dr Iwan Cyber Museum has apparently burnt his fingers many times.

http://driwancybermuseum.wordpress.com/2012/02/11/are-your-s ... l-or-fake/

And a final warning: be very careful indeed of used high values of Jaipur which are rated more highly than mint. These regularly turn up on eBay with faked cancellations. In particular, be wary of any offered by creativityplus, creativityplus4, The Stamp Shop or Sunil Suri.

peterh · Post by **peterh** » 02 Dec 2012 00:19

Here you go. Combination of here:

http://www.misterwhat.co.uk/company/999918-creativity-plus-4-romford

and here:

http://www.bizfisher.com/businessdetails.php?b_id=1577700

tonymacg · Post by **tonymacg** » 02 Dec 2012 14:52

birder wrote:
...

2. Dr Iwan Cyber Museum has apparently burnt his fingers many times.

http://driwancybermuseum.wordpress.com/2012/02/11/are-your-s ... l-or-fake/

And a final warning: be very careful indeed of used high values of Jaipur which are rated more highly than mint. These regularly turn up on eBay with faked cancellations. In particular, be wary of any offered by creativityplus, creativityplus4, The Stamp Shop or Sunil Suri.

Not just of Jaipur, but of anything rated more highly used than mint when offered by that man.

birder · Post by **birder** » 20 Jan 2013 14:38

creativityplus4 is still continuing with his fraudulent ways.

2 more days to go on his latest offering -- GBP 2900 only!!!!!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Patiala-India-Indian-States-Br-Commo ... 484f1ad246

tonymacg · Post by **tonymacg** » 20 Jan 2013 17:30

Pathetic, really. If I was going to outlay £2900, I'd want a cast-iron, unimpeachable BPA Certificate for it. Not the say-so of a very dubious eBay seller, for an item which Gibbons apparently have never heard of.

phiIacity · Post by **phiIacity** » 01 Mar 2013 09:10

Here is another suspicious one - ebay item 330872637325 from one of his associates. Clearly reperfed along the top and right and the watermark is fake.

There has always been griping about eBay, of course. But now, Ms. Steiner said, sellers are just not making as much money there. The biggest problem is that eBay charges a fee simply to list an item, and then it charges a second final value fee if the item actually sells. Ms. Steiner said that the percentage of items that do sell is going down, so sellers feel they are wasting money on listings. Sellers also complain about big fee increases for eBay Stores, the fixed-price section of the site.

Amazon has been winning friends with its Marketplace service, which lets third-party merchants list products on its site at no charge. Merchants pay about 15 percent of the sale price only for completed transactions. That is actually more than the combination of eBay’s listing fees and final value fees, which average about 12 percent, Mr. Wingo said. But sellers like it better.

“Amazon is less risky, so you can pass on the lower risk to buyers in the form of lower prices,” Mr. Wingo said. He noted that Amazon’s buyers on average are less bargain-focused than those on eBay, making for a less cutthroat environment.

Mr. Wingo said that fear of fraud has also made eBay a less attractive environment for sellers.

“When you talk to people about eBay at a cocktail party, fraud is one of the first things they think about,” he said. “Whether that’s right or not, eBay needs to fight that image aggressively.”

Ms. Steiner adds that scams on eBay have become more sophisticated. And at the same time, eBay has eliminated antifraud protection for people who make purchases with any method other than PayPal.

Beyond selling on Amazon, online merchants are increasingly finding that they can strike out with their own Web sites. The reason, of course, is that Google’s AdWords and search engine can now attract customers looking for what they sell.

“EBay has gone from the channel of first resort to the channel of last resort,” Mr. Wingo said. Two years ago, he explained, sellers would list all their products on eBay and just put the remnants on their own sites. “Now sellers will put something on their Web sites — that has become the channel of first resort — then Amazon, then eBay.”

Channel Advisor works with companies that are in the 1,000 top sellers on eBay. Two years ago, 99 percent of their business was on eBay, Mr. Wingo said. It’s down to half now.

EBay’s overall financial results don’t show mass defections, although they do show that the company’s growth is slowing. The total number of listings fell by 5 percent in the third quarter, according to research from Citigroup, and is on track to be up 5 percent, year over year, in the fourth quarter.

But under those stable numbers are some big shifts. EBay’s listings are growing for autos in the United States and in the United Kingdom, South Korea and many other countries. But in October and November, the number of listings in the United States, other than autos, fell by 8.3 percent. (Germany, eBay’s second-biggest market is mixed. Listings fell 14.3 percent in the third quarter but jumped 13 percent in the last two months, Citigroup wrote.)

There have been reports that eBay is looking to reduce its listing fees and raise its final value fees. Given the depth of the anger against the company, I wonder if that will be enough.

tonymacg · Post by **tonymacg** » 01 Mar 2013 09:38

Philacity, if you're referring to lots in online auctions, do please include a scan of the item:

and the seller's name, numiscomau. In a few months, these details will have vanished, and your remarks will be meaningless.

Now, to the best of my knowledge, numiscomau has nothing to do with creativityplus4, and your post doesn't seem to have much connection with him either. A little more thought about what you're posting, before you post, would help everyone. Who, for example, are Ms Steiner, Mr Wingo, and Channel Advisor? There are more appropriate places for what you have to say than here

Goodwin · Post by **Goodwin** » 01 Mar 2013 11:29

This somewhat bizarre rant seems to be a direct lift from the NYT:
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/12/17/the-depth-of-ebays-problems-2-angry-sellers/

fromdownunder · Post by **fromdownunder** » 03 Mar 2013 21:25

phiIacity wrote:Here is another suspicious one - ebay item 330872637325 from one of his associates. Clearly reperfed along the top and right and the watermark is fake.

[Plagiarised (stolen) information snipped]

Congratulations on your ability to steal words from other people's websites and use somebody else's intellectual property. Tell me, when you deal in stamps are you as equally honest?

Norm

tonymacg · Post by **tonymacg** » 09 Mar 2013 23:20

Now back to the business of Mr creativityplus4 and his misdeeds ...

His latest is so laughable

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1948-BAHAWALPUR-PAKISTAN-INDIA-BR-CO ... 0621036886

I think it must be a joke. Though, at £49.99, it's a rather expensive joke. But for that much, you'd think he'd spell 'BAHAWALPUR' correctly in his fake CDS.

peterh · Post by **peterh** » 29 May 2013 07:01

Mr Suri (creativityplus4) is still at it. The latest abomination is this Orchha 1 rupee with a totally bogus cancellation. A snip at a start price of £325!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310678307367

peterh · Post by **peterh** » 29 May 2013 08:48

Just spotted clear evidence that creativityplus4 aka msksur68 aka Sunil Suri is dishonest.

On 21 April, as msksur68, he purchased a number of items BIN from eBay seller maila12, all sold as reproductions. These included a number of Zeppelin covers, including 3 of the following:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300862997827

Then, as creativityplus4 he sold the following item, with no mention of it being a reproduction, on 14 May, for £26.65

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310666238288

I appreciate the two are not identical, but presumably these fakes are all produced individually. The other similarities are pretty damning.

Norbert Jenkins · Post by **Norbert Jenkins** » 29 May 2013 09:04

Over the past year, I have asked creativityplus4 questions regarding three or four of his offerings on eBay (sometimes via the eBay messaging system, sometimes via his email address as published in his listings).

Despite my having a genuine interest in the items (and politely wording my questions), I have as yet received no reply or acknowledgement what so ever from him.

I'm not sure if this is due to technical failures somewhere along the way, or if the lack of reply is part of the standard customer service level that this seller offers. Has anyone else had a similar experience with this chap?

Some of the items in question have been available for a long time, so I would have thought he would have been interested in a potential buyer for them...

goof · Post by **goof** » 29 May 2013 09:12

Norbert

Having read the posts regarding this seller the words "not with a bargepole" spring to mind, regardless of whatever is being sold. A lucky escape that he didn't reply I would say.

regards
Mick

tonymacg · Post by **tonymacg** » 29 May 2013 10:37

I agree: I wouldn't trust anything this seller offers, no matter how attractive it might look.

He has a number of offerings from the Indian States, which I know reasonably well. His 'used' copies of stamps valued more highly used than mint are simply laughable. Compare the Orchha 1 Rupee 'used' (cat. £27 mint and £750 used) with this genuine Jatara CDS:

Post by **GlenStephens** » 29 May 2013 12:44

peterh wrote:Mr Suri (creativityplus4) is still at it. The latest abomination is this Orchha 1 rupee with a totally bogus cancellation. A snip at a start price of £325!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310678307367

How could that fake cancel fool ANYONE? (Except an ebay Bunny!)

dave33 · Post by **dave33** » 31 May 2013 08:01

He's up to his old tricks again - clearly a CTO worth about 10%

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAIPUR-India-Indian-Native-States-Br ... 4855c7973d

tonymacg · Post by **tonymacg** » 31 May 2013 10:14

This isn't even a CTO, it's simply a fake. Here is a genuine example of a Sikar CDS

Nothing like that silly confection he's offering, on that or any of the other 'used' Jaipur he's offering.

I must say, I can grudgingly respect a good forgery, but these productions from creativityplus4 are just an insult to the intelligence.

peterh · Post by **peterh** » 08 Jun 2013 08:47

I hope it doesn't feel that I have a vendetta against poor Mr Suri (creativityplus4 aka msksur68), but I now have conclusive evidence that he not only knowingly sells fakes, but produces them as well.

On 16th May, as msksur68, he purchased these two Jind stamps for £11.50:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111072542312

Today, as creativityplus4, he listed this used 2 rupees with a start price of £220:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310684159955

Although I believe he disguises the fact by either altering the perfs themselves or editing the image so that the perfs do not look identical, there are several small blemishes that are identical, as is the centring.

tonymacg · Post by **tonymacg** » 08 Jun 2013 10:25

Well spotted, peterh! That looks pretty conclusive to me.

Most of his forged 'cancellations' are so childish, they shouldn't take anyone in. They must be doing so though, I suppose - otherwise, why would he bother continuing?

peterh · Post by **peterh** » 08 Jun 2013 10:50

It's hard to believe, but he still seems to be making hundreds of pounds each month.

That Orchha 1 rupee above is now listed as sold to a 60 feedback buyer c***8.

Norbert Jenkins · Post by **Norbert Jenkins** » 08 Jun 2013 23:02

tonymacg wrote:Well spotted, peterh! That looks pretty conclusive to me.

Most of his forged 'cancellations' are so childish, they shouldn't take anyone in. They must be doing so though, I suppose - otherwise, why would he bother continuing?

I seem to remember a chap getting sent to prison a few years ago for 'improving' stamps and selling them on for profit. Somewhere on the south coast of England (Portsmouth maybe). If memory serves, he had got around £30k off some old chap over a few years and was found out when the unsuspecting buyer took his 'treasures' to a dealer to sell/appraise them. Sorry, don't have a reference to hand, but think there was a brief mention of it in Stamp Magazine.

So, given that this sort of thing does get acted upon, can anyone use their eBay deciphering skills to contact all buyers of stamps that have been demonstrably purchased, altered and sold for profit by this chap, to see if they can be shown this thread and asked to consider reporting the crime to their local police?

We need to keep the hobby clean, for all our sakes.

Norbert Jenkins · Post by **Norbert Jenkins** » 14 Jun 2013 06:42

Sorry to double-post, but I am interested in peoples thoughts about this item and the listing.

"creativityplus4" is listing
"1866, India, POSTAGE OVPT ON 8 ANNA BILL, SG 018a, Cat £24000, QV. V.RARE."
Item number: 310687812189
Link: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310687812189
Image:

Price (Buy-it-now or make offer): £4,800.00 (free posting!)
Returns: No returns accepted

Description (crazy html bits at end as per description):
Check out my other items!Be sure to add me to your favourites list! The StampShop

Notes Spectacular

More Indian States in the Shop, click below to get the complete list.

The StampShop

===========================================================

1866, India, POSTAGE OVPT ON 8 ANNA BILL, SG 018a, Cat £24000, mint, brown cracked gum as usual QV. V.RARE, buyer can send for certification if required, please note that cost will not be paid by us.

Many items like these will be offered in the next month or so, as need to retire. All will be offered without any reserve and very low start value. Any questions please send me an email.
Good luck.

The StampShop

===========================================================

PLEASE NOTE THAT WE DO NOT PUT RESERVES ON OUR AUCTIONS, SO YOU MAY BID IN CONFIDENCE.

PLEASE SEE OUR OTHER LOTS IN THIS AUCTION.

The StampShop KEEP A LOOK OUT, WITH MANY GOOD LOTS THAT ARE NOT OFTEN OFFERED BY OTHER EBAYERS.

GOOD LUCK ON YOUR BIDDING.

Check out my other items!Be sure to add me to your favourites list! The StampShop

On 07-Jun-06 at 18:11:24 BST, seller added the following information: On 25-Nov-08 at 00:31:10 GMT, seller added the following information:

PLEASE NOTE. MAJORITY OF THE OLD INDIAN, AND PAKISTANI CURRENCY NOTES WERE STAPLED, SO THE PIN HOLES ARE AS ISSUED..

On 14-May-09 at 09:53:23 BST, seller added the following information: amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;div style="text-align:center"amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;a style="text-decoration:none" href="https://mostpopular.sellathon.com/?id=AC100105"amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;img src="https://www.sellathon.com/Resources/Images/countercredit.gif" border="0"amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;/aamp;amp;amp;amp;gt;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;/divamp;amp;amp;amp;gt;

************************************************************
Here are my questions and comments on this item:
1) What do people think about if this is a genuine original stamp, an official reprint, or a forged overprint on a basic revenue stamp (or an outright fake stamp and overprint)?
2) Given the uncertainty, what would be a fair price to offer?
3) I note that creativityplus4 states "buyer can send for certification if required, please note that cost will not be paid by us". I find that a strange comment to make. Firstly, once you buy it, it's yours and you don't need permission to send it for a certificate, or to do anything else with it! Also, there is no mention of what the seller may do, should the certificate come back as bad (or good, or opinion declined). So, why mention this? And coupled with "Returns:
No returns accepted / Return policy details The seller won't accept returns for this item.", I find it hard to follow his train of thought with this aspect of the listing.
4) For the best part of five grand, I would hope to see a scan of the back of the stamp at the least in the listing. Why is it not shown?
5) The surface appears to have a few rubs. I know that these green overprinted service on revenue type Indian stamps can suffer from this a bit, but is this amount average for the issue?
6) If the seller is confident in this stamp, why would he not get it certified (for a cost of what - a couple hundred pounds maybe?), at which point, people would have better confidence to bid on it (assuming the cert comes back clean).
7) Surely one of the big London auction houses would be able to sell something like this for a better return that you'd get on eBay, given the high net worth clients that they must have on their lists, etc, even taking into account their fees.

Given the apparently casual approach to the listing and some of the other comments I make, I am left confused about the listing and the item and not at all sure if the seller is really trying to get this item sold, or has something else in mind?

I need this stamp for my collection (postally used though - no mint for me!) but even if I decide to blow a huge percentage of my stamp 'pocket money' for the next several decades to get a copy of this (which I have rarely seen offered), how could I possibly bid on this specific example as listed? All I could do is to offer an amount that assumes it is a spacefiller grade reproduction, until proved otherwise. What would you buy this for, as listed, if you were to make an offer on it?

Sorry for the long post, any thoughts or input on this stamp or my comments and questions would be greatly appreciated. Has creativityplus4 been shown this thread? I'd love to hear his responses!

Maxime Citerne · Post by **Maxime Citerne** » 14 Jun 2013 07:37

Norbert,

there is no way I would bid, even 1 euro, on that stamp. The seller is absolutely not trustable. It is a far too risky game.

Anyway, even if the seller was a good and knowledgeable one (which is not the case here), no serious collector would buy a 5 digit stamp on Ebay without a clear certificate from a recognized expert.

And finally, think about this: as a seller, if I had this stamp to sell, I would be the first one to bear the price of such certificate, as it would certainly push the selling price in the sky! Unless, of course, that the stamp is doctored or fake. But creativityplus4 doesn't want to make it certified. Strange, isn't it?

goof · Post by **goof** » 14 Jun 2013 09:29

Norbert

If you really need a spacefiller you would be better taking a copy of the photo you posted and printing it out from your own computer.

Anyone that actually puts any money into the hands of forgers like this knowingly just perpetuates the problem for the unsuspecting less informed.

Good luck in your hunt for the real thing.

regards
Mick

tonymacg · Post by **tonymacg** » 14 Jun 2013 10:16

I have no idea whether this stamp is genuine or not.

However, given the seller's demonstrated record of selling doctored stamps, and his refusal to accept returns, I'd suggest you ignore this. Wait for a copy with an unimpeachable certificate and provenance.

HayeSmyth · Post by **HayeSmyth** » 15 Jun 2013 11:30

Maxime Citerne wrote:
And finally, think about this: as a seller, if I had this stamp to sell, I would be the first one to bear the price of such certificate, as it would certainly push the selling price in the sky! Unless, of course, that the stamp is doctored or fake. But creativityplus4 doesn't want to make it certified. Strange, isn't it?

This to me is the key point.

Anybody in their right mind, who owns something of this stature would want to have it assessed, regardless of the outcome. Not doing so implies that they know there is something wrong with it.

In addition, the seller's casual remark that:

buyer can send for certification if required

is a clever ploy to try to convince everyone that this must be legitimate.

Then there's the confusion surrounding the obtaining of a certificate with no returns.

This stinks

aethelwulf · Post by **aethelwulf** » 15 Jun 2013 16:34

Offer something with a starting bid of £4800, and you won't put up £50 or so for a certificate?

Legit auction houses usually have a line in the T&C that says if you send an item for expertizing, and it comes back a dud, they'll refund you on the purchase.

This guy creativityplus4...well the 2 pages of thread here tell us lots about his standards.

peterh · Post by **peterh** » 12 Oct 2013 06:46

Latest development - he now has nothing listed currently as creativityplus4, but has started a recent batch of auctions with 99 pence starts as msksur68, all with his usual fake cancellations:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/msksur68/m.html?item=331042171595& ... 7675.l2562

Chadlad · Post by **Chadlad** » 12 Oct 2013 06:51

Not to mention the £6.75 postage fee for single stamps!!!

peterh · Post by **peterh** » 12 Oct 2013 06:55

...maybe he now really is retiring.

If so...goodbye Mr Suri - you won't be missed!

Norbert Jenkins · Post by **Norbert Jenkins** » 12 Oct 2013 07:26

peterh wrote:Latest development - he now has nothing listed currently as creativityplus4, but has started a recent batch of auctions with 99 pence starts as msksur68, all with his usual fake cancellations:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/msksur68/m.html?item=331042171595& ... 7675.l2562

Those cancellations (at least the ones on British India, which I feel somewhat qualified to comment on) are shockingly bad. Potato-carvings and a pad of blue water based ink could produce a cancellation mark of a similar quality. The typeface on some of these cancels are horrible – appearing like hand drawn letters that vary in size, style and amount of hand wobble between characters!

Some of the underlying stamps were quite valuable in their original incarnation. If someone was indeed taking mint stamps and adding fake cancels for profit, that person would have to have a good expectation that their creations would sell, otherwise they have simply ruined a decent mint stamp.

I will have to check the catalogue price difference between 'Mint British India' vs. 'Mint British India overprinted with State' vs. 'Used British India overprinted with State', but with cancellations of the sort of standard that we are seeing on this eBay account and also on the creativityplus4, who in their right mind would take a mint stamp valued 'X' and fake-cancel it, even if the catalogue value for a used example had a catalogue of say '10X'?

Basically, you are gambling the value of the mint stamp against the value of the cancelled stamp. If your cancel is so poorly executed that nobody will buy that stamp, you lose the original value 'X' that the stamp had. If however someone buys that stamp, you make your 9X profit (in this example), over the original value in the mint stamp.

You would have to either have a good number of customers with lots of money and no ability to spot a howling fake in the field in which they collect (presumably they would collect it to a decent standard, if they are paying £100s or more for the stamps they need), or you have not only lumbered yourself with stamps that will remain sitting not getting sold, you've actually destroyed the intrinsic value of the mint stamp as it once was. This is all of course assuming your backup plan in this scheme is not to wash off the fake cancel and then regum the stamp, to get back to your original mint stamp!

So, given the value proposition on offer, this doesn't add up to me. Are there really that many halfwits out there, smart enough to be able to afford to be collecting stamps in the three, four or more figure range, but stupid enough to not spot an amateur-hour fake cancel, that you can be fairly sure to make money by damaging, what were good and valuable stamps in their original form?

I know that eBay users sometimes get painted en mass with the 'bunny' brush here (or the ‘Australian-rhyming slang’* slightly ruder ‘drop kick’ epithet) and while there are idiots in all fields and walks of life, there are only so many surely, if your business model related to separating them from their lunch money! Anyone have any ideas on how this 'business model' is superior to simply 'sell the fairly good mint stamps as-is and make decent money fairly quickly and honestly'?

One last query (for now!): while it looks fairly obvious that this msksur68 account, located as claimed in Romford, sells material that certainly has cancellations of the same 'style' as those previously offered via the creativityplus4 account, is there any solid evidence that they are both controlled by the same gentleman that has been mentioned in this thread?

Thanks for reading!

Norbert

* I was shocked to learn that the word I was looking for was not the one that rhymes with ‘drop kick’, but the one that rhymes with the fuller saying ‘drop kick and punt’

peterh · Post by **peterh** » 12 Oct 2013 07:35

Norbert, in answer to your queries, see my post from a few months back:

peterh wrote:I hope it doesn't feel that I have a vendetta against poor Mr Suri (creativityplus4 aka msksur68), but I now have conclusive evidence that he not only knowingly sells fakes, but produces them as well.

On 16th May, as msksur68, he purchased these two Jind stamps for £11.50:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111072542312

Today, as creativityplus4, he listed this used 2 rupees with a start price of £220:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310684159955

Although I believe he disguises the fact by either altering the perfs themselves or editing the image so that the perfs do not look identical, there are several small blemishes that are identical, as is the centring.

Also, his feedback appears to show that he has sold many of these fakes, but I guess that's ebay bunnies for you!

Norbert Jenkins · Post by **Norbert Jenkins** » 12 Oct 2013 08:32

peterh wrote:Norbert, in answer to your queries, see my post from a few months back:

peterh wrote:I hope it doesn't feel that I have a vendetta against poor Mr Suri (creativityplus4 aka msksur68), but I now have conclusive evidence that he not only knowingly sells fakes, but produces them as well.

On 16th May, as msksur68, he purchased these two Jind stamps for £11.50:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111072542312

Today, as creativityplus4, he listed this used 2 rupees with a start price of £220:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310684159955

Although I believe he disguises the fact by either altering the perfs themselves or editing the image so that the perfs do not look identical, there are several small blemishes that are identical, as is the centring.

Thanks for finding that for me, I must have turned two pages at once at some point in the past!

I agree that the results are fairly solid that this is all one and the same chap.

That editing/modification of the perforations is an eye opener. If he's doing it digitally, then when someone gets his stamp, the item will not match the picture. I suppose that if you can't spot a blooming great comedy cancellation mark, you'd not spot the slightly more subtle perf modifications.

If the perforations on the stamp are actually physically being modified before the stamp is relisted (as part of the makeover it's getting anyway), then that's a bit of extra work to do. Any time you handle a stamp there is some danger to it. Removing bits of paper, even just fractions off the perfs, must increase this danger.

Either way, be it physical or digital modification of the perfs, this appears to show that the person is trying to disguise something. What's the legal term for that - 'showing a guilty mind' or some such? Again, more (dishonest) work, to make money. Surely just sell the unmolested stamp for a fair price. Quicker, safer (to the stamp for a start) and honest. As you say, eBay bunnies. I'm going to start selling carrots I think, I'll be a millionaire in 6 months!

tonymacg · Post by **tonymacg** » 12 Oct 2013 09:53

It's a dark mystery to me, too, how this person gets away with it, and why he does. I can only suppose he's targeting complete reign completionists, who don't care how dodgy the cancellations on their stamps are. Not a very satisfying answer, but the best I can come up with.

Now that Mr Suri is trading under his new name, could a Mod perhaps modify the title of this thread to include 'msksur68', please?

birder · Post by **birder** » 12 Oct 2013 14:53

Suri is a criminal, a fraudster. Such sellers should be proceeded against in a criminal court of law. Stampboards should consider starting a suing service with a pro bono group of lawyers (maybe collector lawyers) in each major country to put such rogue sellers behind bars.

Post by **GlenStephens** » 12 Oct 2013 14:58

Folks please take 5 minutes to report ebay fraudster msksur68 for adding fake cancels to fleece Bunnies $100s more than they should have paid.

admin wrote:
ebay have set up a fast new portal to report suspected sellers of forged stamps and cancels and overprints etc, at - http://aitaex.notlong.com - there is space for 10,000 characters in your reply, so ALL the relevant info below, plus lot numbers of alleged fakes - and details as to WHY - can be added. Unlike most ebay complaint forms that frustratingly allow 100 characters etc.

Members here should contact this ebay re this. The more complaints they get, the faster they will act. History has shown us that 50 times before.

One complaint from one member might be seen by ebay as sour grapes or rivalry etc. TEN complaints from 10 members on one other seller, members with perfect track records really makes them pay attention. And so it should.

Be sure to tell THEM of their own policy - http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies - as many ebay staff probably do not realise it exists so specifically!

Any above all remember you are dealing with some 20 year geek most likely at ebay, who know ZERO about stamps. You do need to spoon feed them a little with the info above.

---------------------

ebay now has a written policy stopping ANYONE offering fake stamps etc, without them being marked as thus - i.e.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-stamps.html

Selling of Stamps

eBay does not permit the sale of stamps that are fraudulent or improperly described.

Sellers who knowingly fail to disclose information about the authenticity of a stamp, alterations to the stamp, or other information that might have a material impact on the stamp's value may be reported to the American Philatelic Society.

If the stamp is a forgery, fake, reproduction or facsimile:

it must be clearly and indelibly marked as such

a clear image of this mark must be included

it must be clearly stated in the title and/or description

If unsure of the origin or authenticity of the stamp, please state this clearly in the listing. Do not sell an item "As Is" regarding its authenticity.

Violations of this policy may result in a range of actions, including:

Listing cancellation

Limits on account privileges

Account suspension

Forfeit of eBay fees on cancelled listings

Loss of PowerSeller status

sroy146 · Post by **sroy146** » 21 Oct 2013 14:50

I came across the PATIALA STATE as PATIAEA STATE from a European Seller and promptly bought it.

Here is the link to the image of the stamp:

FRONT IMAGE:
http://s818.photobucket.com/user/sroy146/media/PATIAEA_zpsd2b36cf1.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1

IMAGE OF THE REVERSE:
http://s818.photobucket.com/user/sroy146/media/backPATIAEA_zps2e0c0c81.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

It could be that Mr. Suri had genuine pair of the above stamp, but just unlisted or unrecorded.
Members views on this stamp will be highly appreciated.

Thanks.

birder · Post by **birder** » 21 Oct 2013 15:17

Near the top of this page there is a SEARCH button. Search for PATIAEA and all your queries shall be answered in the ten posts that are listed.

Allanswood · Post by **Allanswood** » 21 Oct 2013 15:37

Can I offer a couple of tips sroy146?

It's best to actually post the image here (the 4th code in the box in PB) and not a link. Also maybe use a different album from your photobucket account.

If you click on the link, you will see why. Nothing sinister, just a friendly bit of advice on using images on the net anywhere.

peterh · Post by **peterh** » 22 Oct 2013 09:58

Well, Mr Suri aka msksur68 sold the first 17 of his 99 pence starts yesterday - all with faked postmarks in my opinion, fetching approximately £1000.

I believe he is shilling all these as well. 16 of the 17 were bid up between one and three steps by bidder 0***0 (49), who has 100% bidding activity with him in the last 30 days.

I have reported him for this and the fakes, but doesn't look like eBay are interested.

...and the 'PATIAEA' error listed above by sroy146 looks like one of his to me - probably faked with a couple of pen strokes.

tonymacg · Post by **tonymacg** » 22 Oct 2013 10:19

sroy146, you might consider these three points:

1. The error has never been seen before, even though these stamps have been intensively studied for over a century.
2. The error was discovered by a dealer with a very poor reputation for faking items.
3. The stamp was sold without a certificate.

If I were you, I'd try to return the item for a refund.

Post by **GlenStephens** » 22 Oct 2013 11:26

tonymacg wrote:
sroy146, you might consider these three points:

1. The error has never been seen before, even though these stamps have been intensively studied for over a century.
2. The error was discovered by a dealer with a very poor reputation for faking items.
3. The stamp was sold without a certificate.

If I were you, I'd try to return the item for a refund.

Agree.

Only on ebay could anyone be absolutely foolish enough to spend a small fortune to buy such a laughable "error" that for 100 years is unrecorded, yet here it is in a PAIR, with no cert, from a seller of fakes msksur68 with a track record of doing so - a mile long.

Mail it back immediately, or you get the 'eBay Bunny Of The Decade Award', with twin oak leaves.

Allanswood · Post by **Allanswood** » 22 Oct 2013 12:12

Good grief, I can do that with my 0.3mm indelible fine pen myself.
You can see the top bar of the E has been hand drawn.

Post by **GlenStephens** » 22 Oct 2013 12:23

Allanswood wrote:Good grief, I can do that with my 0.3mm indelible fine pen myself.

You can see the top bar of the E has been hand drawn.

Agree .. only an Ebay Bunny would pay more than a quid for it, as a crude fake curio.

It is obviously hand drawn .. even on the cruddy ebay lot scan, you can see the difference in black ink intensity on the faked cross bars

All these overprints were done in metal typeset Formes.

A missing letter error or spelling etc occurred on every sheet.

All the genuine errors were recorded 100 years back.

And then along came ebay ..........................

kiranoukid · Post by **kiranoukid** » 30 Oct 2013 14:26

Lol. I thought the name rang a bell and checked my records.

Late in 2004 I purchased a couple of 1903 Natal stamps from "creativityplus". However, the 4d turned out to be the MCA watermark not the more valuable CA watermark.

I paid about $12 so I wasn't too badly burnt. I didn't bother trying to get a refund. I bought a couple of Jind GV stamps off him as well.

I don't make major purchases on Ebay. I think something like $60 is the most I've paid for a single stamp.

I expect that I'll get ripped off every now and then which is why I bid well below catalogue price for items.

peterh · Post by **peterh** » 18 Nov 2013 08:53

Another update on Mr Suri. Unfortunately looks like he isn't giving up his fraudulent eBay activities yet. He is still shifting plenty of Indian States with forged cancels as msksur68 and is now buying unused stamps as creativityplus4

The eBay abreviation for creativityplus4 is v***t (4540) and his current bids are all for Bahawalpur and India items, which I am guessing are all mint items to which he will add his forged cancels and make significant profits.

He recently purchased these four Orchha stamps for peanuts and I'm sure we will see these appear for sale with cancellations in a few days or weeks by his alter ego.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/P160-INDIA-ORCHHA-STATE-1939-SG34-1a-SCARLET-MINT-/121214518724

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/P153-INDIA-ORCHHA-STATE-1939-SG31- ... 1214524311

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/P162-INDIA-ORCHHA-STATE-1939-SG32- ... 1214520739

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/P161-INDIA-ORCHHA-STATE-1935-SG33- ... 1214519914

He is also bidding for this one, which doesn't finish for a number of days yet, but will be very interesting if he gets it because a number of these have very distinctive centering:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Orchha-States-British-India-1939-1 ... 0795308211

peterh · Post by **peterh** » 18 Nov 2013 08:55

Also, by the way, I have reported virtually every one of his items and it appears eBay have done nothing.

tonymacg · Post by **tonymacg** » 18 Nov 2013 09:45

Excellent work on this pest, peterh - thanks!

His 'postmarks' are so dreadful, they would never fool any collector of the Indian States. However, there are plenty of George VI era collectors out there, who might want these Orchha and Bahawalpur 'used' for their collections, and who might very well fall for his creations.

eBay probably regards the Indian States as too hard, and the acknowledged experts too slow to respond, to do anything about these. All we can realistically do is keep this thread alive, and hope to save the members of Stampboards at least from Mr Sunil Suri.