What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to sell

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What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to sell

Post by julesjelev »

Last week I came across a lot of Pensylvania fishing licenses with trout stamps on them .

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1991-Pennsylvania-Fishing-License-/1 ... true&rt=nc
(one of them above)

The shipping charges for Canada were extremely high so I sent a message to the seller, viz22220, in order to confirm the shipping costs on a lot of 5 licenses.

This is his response:

"3 dollars should cover shipping for one or five ,
hope this was helpful. Thank you"


Image

Three dollars seemed on the high side considering that most US sellers delivered similar material to me for between $1 and $1.50, but I decided to bite the bullet and place my bids.

No one else was interested in these licenses at this price, so I had all four at $1.99 + shipping.

Right at the end of my bidding, I sent a message to viz22220 asking him to send me an invoice with combined shipping.

After doing so, I checked Ebay for similar material and was appalled to find one of the licenses I had just purchased re-listed. :shock:

I sent another message to viz22220 pointing out at the new listing.

This was his response on the two issues:

"This new listing of the fishing license was done in error. I apologize and am currently sorting the details of how this occurred. I can assure you that there is only one license and you have the winning bid.
As soon as possible, I will send you an invoice.
Thank you,"


moments later:

"ebay wont let me send you an invoice because it's global. We can go old school--$7.96+3.00=$10.96 and I'll mark everything paid, or we'll go through ebay global and I'll refund you the difference of $1.00.
Please let me know what you want to do."


I check Ebay's website and send the seller to a page describing in detail how a combined invoice can be sent to a buyer.

No response from him.

I e-mail him again:

"Hi viz22220, If there are difficulties with the invoice, please send me your e-mail address and I will Paypal the $10.96 outside of Ebay's console. Regards,"

his response:

"can you send 10.96 via thru eBay PayPal, , I'll mark it paid in full on my eBay account"

:shock: :shock: :shock:

my reply:
"Yes. I just need your e-mail address associated with your Paypal account. Jules"

now this is what I get:

"Do r not s respond j to 2 the play sender if yahoo this . message com requests that you complete the transaction outside of eBay. This type of offer is against eBay policy, may be fraudulent, and is not covered by protection programs.
hope this was helpful."


:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: Where did this come from ?

I responded with "What the heck is going on?"

Then I called Ebay and spoke with one of their reps. He sent me a message with 7 steps a seller must follow to send an invoice to me (knowing that the guy is in US and I am in Canada.)

I e-mail the steps to viz22220 again and ....Nada.......

How frustrating is all of this.....I just want my 4 stamps and he is apparently so unwilling to send them.

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by Global Administrator »

julesjelev wrote:
moments later:

"ebay wont let me send you an invoice because it's global. We can go old school--$7.96+3.00=$10.96 and I'll mark everything paid, or we'll go through ebay global and I'll refund you the difference of $1.00.
Please let me know what you want to do."

And your exact broblem with this simple response was ..........................

You reinvent the wheel wasting $20 of your time talking to the untrained Chimps at ebay Calcutta, and forcing this guy to waste $20 or more of his time on a $7 sale.

I'd 'lose' the items too if I was him!

YOU are trying to entice him to pay outside the ebay system and you worry why HE is being cautious?

Time is money to savvy folks. All except some ebay buyers seem to realise that reality. :mrgreen:

As to American sellers allegedly mailing you cheapie goods to a foreign country for $1, I suggest you check what USPS actually charges for foreign mail .. you seem to be living in a time wrap from the 1990s.

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by julesjelev »

This is what I just received from him, after I sent him the instruction from Ebay.

"ebay will not allow me to give you my email address "

I responded with

"In this case please follow the 7 steps listed in my earlier e-mail to send me an invoice. If you have any problem, please call Ebay at the number provided. Thank you. Jules."

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by julesjelev »

Global Administrator wrote:
Time is money to savvy folks. All except some ebay buyers seem to realise that reality. :mrgreen:
How do I pay him not knowing his e-mail address? Please tell me that and I can go ahead...

It is my weekend. I have nothing better to do with my time but waste it. :lol:

P.S. What I forgot to mention was that there was no option to pay shipping of $4 and then get the $1 refund. The shipping calculated was $20.

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by Global Administrator »

julesjelev wrote:
It is my weekend. I have nothing better to do with my time but waste it. :lol:
I am sure the seller is comforted to learn that. HE may have a life - that is indeed possible I guess. :)

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by julesjelev »

Please let me know how you would pay him.

P.S. It is not very likely that a guy listing $1.99 items on Ebay hoping to get $2.50 for them has that much of a life.

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by Belisarius »

julesjelev wrote: "ebay wont let me send you an invoice because it's global. We can go old school--$7.96+3.00=$10.96 and I'll mark everything paid, or we'll go through ebay global and I'll refund you the difference of $1.00.
Please let me know what you want to do."
As the Ebay message says, this IS fraudulent, consider both of you have agreed to a contract with Ebay when you list/purchase the item. Granted, it's a fraud that Ebay can probably weather, but if he cannot set up his account properly, I severely doubt his ability to actually use the postal service to send it to you anyway...
Last edited by Belisarius on 10 Mar 2014 18:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by julesjelev »

Belisarius wrote:
As the Ebay message says, this IS fraudulent, consider both of you have agreed to a contract with Ebay when you list/purchase the item. Granted, it is one that Ebay can probably weather, but if he cannot set up his account properly, I severely doubt his ability to actually use the postal service to send it to you anyway...
I decided to proceed with the payment the way it was calculated by Ebay.
So I paid some $28 on an item costing $8 and when I took a look at the receipt I found that all those exorbitant shipping costs were paid to Pitney Bowes through a second payment. I am not sure how the seller will now refund the $16 difference.

I may post a copy of that receipt here tomorrow. Honestly I cannot sort it out! :evil:

Such a beautiful mess....... :D

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by traralgon3844 »

I sell internationally and list on the U.K. site quite often.

Sending invoices internationally is not a problem if you go to the site where you listed the items. You can adjust your postage costs to whatever you like at the invoice stage.

I can't see what the problem is in sending an invoice.

Perhaps he is blowing you off because he is not using his preferred method of post using International Tracking. Which in this case was $24.42 to Australia. Not a great way to get bids/sell cheap items.
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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by aethelwulf »

When a sender hits the "Send Invoice" tab next to an item in the "Items sold" list of My eBay, it brings up an invoice template, showing everything that seller sold to that buyer that hasn't been invoiced yet.

Yes, the computer thinks its "smart", and tallies each individual shipping charge, so 5 items sold at $1 + $2 post turns into a $15 total invoice.

But the number in the postage box can be altered to whatever the seller wants, to adjust for combined shipping. I've done it as a seller dozens of times, and received combined invoices 100s of times.

This seller just sounds like he doesn't know how to use eBay, and given the level of intelligence of some eBay sellers, that's saying something! :shock:
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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by julesjelev »

Just to give you an update on this retarded transaction.

After making the payment I let the seller know of the amount he was now supposed to refund around $16.50

Today he first responds he will refund the excess shipping paid, then minutes later I receive a message in which tracking numbers are provided on the shipment (item value : $8) and he has left a note he will be refunding me just $4 !!!!!!! :twisted:

This is after I had asked him, much before the end of the bids about shipping costs and he had quoted $3 on the whole lot of 4 or 5 licenses.

I've had enough of this !!!! I just knew that was going to happen as he apparently does not want to ship, does not know how, or I do not know what else, but he should not be selling anything on Ebay.

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by memphre »

julesjelev wrote:
Belisarius wrote:
As the Ebay message says, this IS fraudulent, consider both of you have agreed to a contract with Ebay when you list/purchase the item. Granted, it is one that Ebay can probably weather, but if he cannot set up his account properly, I severely doubt his ability to actually use the postal service to send it to you anyway...
I decided to proceed with the payment the way it was calculated by Ebay.
So I paid some $28 on an item costing $8 and when I took a look at the receipt I found that all those exorbitant shipping costs were paid to Pitney Bowes through a second payment. I am not sure how the seller will now refund the $16 difference.

I may post a copy of that receipt here tomorrow. Honestly I cannot sort it out! :evil:

Such a beautiful mess....... :D
Jules, you have to understand how eBay works. OK, I know it's not easy due to the fact that not much is logical either from a seller's or a buyer's viewpoint and also that they keep changing things around. «Disruptive destruction» I believe their boss calls that.

What happens is that your seller is enrolled in an eBay program called «eBay Global». eBay's sub-contractor, Pitney-Bowes, operates a process which removes the hassle of international shipping from those hapless US-based sellers, for a price, of course. Also of course, that cost is going to come from your (the buyer's) pocket. It is possible your seller enlisted in this program knowingly, it also is probable he was enlisted unknowingly and unwillingly. Get used to it, it will become the norm as it is a nice fee-earner for eBay.

Your seller will ship your items to a Pitney-Bowes facility in Kentucky, where your items will be repackaged, and shipped to you with customs papers to ensure you will pay customs clearance and taxes on arrival. That is why your seller is looking impotent, he has no control whatsoever on the process. In fact, he is giving you back a chunk of his own money, possibly the part of shipping he invoiced you to ship your items to Kentucky.

So, quit blaming the guy and keep away from any eBay US-based seller who advertises that his items are covered by eBay Global. Also, be prepared for this nonsense to spread to other countries in the next few months.

OK I know you don't believe me since this is so nonsensical, its farcical. Keep in mind this is eBay. There is no limit to their inventiveness,

Here is the link to the eBay site where they explain how this works from the seller's side.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/shipping-globally.html

Have fun. Go shopping on Delcampe, it's easier.

Regards


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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by Global Administrator »

Some sellers are more savvy. :lol:

I bought some 'Finish' Dishwasher tablets today on ebay. Never dealt with this seller before.

Asked seller if I could upgrade to a larger quantity and how would I pay hm for that, and get this note -


Dear xxxx

If you dont mind, pls just trf (send money ) another $19 to me via paypal. And I will put another 2 pkts in the parcel. The courier guy is here, I am handing him 4 pkts altogether now.

I trust u.

Ta
A

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by julesjelev »

memphre wrote:In fact, he is giving you back a chunk of his own money, possibly the part of shipping he invoiced you to ship your items to Kentucky.
No he is not. He realized that he got only $11.96 in his account and refunded me only $2. That was, I guess $1 more than what he initially thought he would have to refund.

I responded to him that this will not cut it and opened a case in PayPal with a claim to Pitney Bowes and an automatic dispute to him.

So, Memphre, reading the details of this unfortunate story, who do you think is to blame? Me? I already asked the seller about the shipping costs BEFORE I placed a bid on his items.

I do not want to blame him, and I believe it is Ebay - PayPal - Pitney Bowes created mess, but I did not see this seller follow the 7 simple steps to send me an invoice either.

Could he have sent me a combined shipping invoice manually adjusting the shipping costs?

What tracking numbers, customs declarations, repacking and other BS on 4 used stamps. That is pathetic, ....retarded, ......you name it!

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by ivqii »

julesjelev - What is your eBay handle?
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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by aethelwulf »

julesjelev wrote:What tracking numbers, customs declarations, repacking and other BS on 4 used stamps. That is pathetic, ....retarded, ......you name it!
When you said you were expecting $16.50 back, and got $4, I was thinking the $12.50 difference would be the cost of registered mail (as you said he emailed you a tracking number). Memphre's explanation makes sense, the added cost is the big cut Pitney Bowes is taking.

I used to bid through a couple websites that consolidated auction listings for auctioneers of art and antiques. The frustrating thing was that most of these auction houses don't do in-house shipping, its outsourced to 3rd parties like Mailboxes, Etc. When I was quoted a ridiculous sum, something like $100, for a cheapish item that could have fit in a global priority box retailing at the USPS store for $16.95, I told the auction house forget it, cancel the sale then, there's no way to justify that price.

I listed a bunch of items on eBay.com last weekend, and was asked if I wanted to join the eBay Global shipping programme...I said no to it, didn't see what I needed someone re-mailing my items for me, and so glad I didn't now!

The problem with eBay is its a 'one size fits all' site...they're trying to accommodate every type of product...so re-shipping might be helpful for people sending bulkier things, or who don't know how the post office works. But come on, pack it, take to the post office, stick stamps/a label on it, and its off.
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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by julesjelev »

This is the receipt I received for the payment

===================================================

You sent a total payment of $27.34 USD for the following items.
Thanks for using PayPal to make your purchase. To see the payment details, log into your PayPal account. It may take a few minutes for this transaction to appear in your account.


Shipping purchases
Shipping address - confirmed
Jules Jelev
4712 Walsh Ave
Terrace BC V8G 1Y6
Canada
Purchase: Transaction ID: 8VK66182PL2938026
Seller
viz22220 Note to seller
You haven't included a note.
Shipping details
The seller hasn’t provided any shipping details yet.

Description Unit price Qty Amount
1992 Pennsylvania Fishing License
Item# 111290915219 $1.99 USD 1 $1.99 USD
1995 Pennsylvania Fishing License
Item# 111290920005 $1.99 USD 1 $1.99 USD
1994 Pennsylvania Fishing License
Item# 111290918875 $1.99 USD 1 $1.99 USD
1991 Pennsylvania Fishing License
Item# 111290913116 $1.99 USD 1 $1.99 USD

Subtotal $7.96 USD
Shipping and handling $4.00 USD
Insurance - not offered ----
Total $11.96 USD
Payment $11.96 USD
This charge will appear on your credit card statement as "PAYPAL *RSJ2PLAY"
Payment sent to rsj2play@yahoo.com
From amount $13.67 CAD
To amount $11.96 USD
Exchange rate: 1 Canadian Dollar = 0.874908 U.S. Dollars

Shipping Charges: Transaction ID: 3VM26729XT6976511

International shipping and import charge
A separate payment was sent to this global shipping company to ship your package and to clear customs.


Description Unit price Qty Amount

International shipping $4.00 USD
Total $15.38 USD
Payment $15.38 USD
This charge will appear on your credit card statement as "PAYPAL *PITNEYBOWES"
Payment sent to
From amount $17.57 CAD
To amount $15.38 USD
Exchange rate: 1 Canadian Dollar = 0.875355 U.S. Dollars


=================================================

My Ebay handle is the same - julesjelev

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by memphre »

julesjelev wrote:
memphre wrote:In fact, he is giving you back a chunk of his own money, possibly the part of shipping he invoiced you to ship your items to Kentucky.
No he is not. He realized that he got only $11.96 in his account and refunded me only $2. That was, I guess $1 more than what he initially thought he would have to refund.

I responded to him that this will not cut it and opened a case in PayPal with a claim to Pitney Bowes and an automatic dispute to him.

So, Memphre, reading the details of this unfortunate story, who do you think is to blame? Me? I already asked the seller about the shipping costs BEFORE I placed a bid on his items.

I do not want to blame him, and I believe it is Ebay - PayPal - Pitney Bowes created mess, but I did not see this seller follow the 7 simple steps to send me an invoice either.

Could he have sent me a combined shipping invoice manually adjusting the shipping costs?

What tracking numbers, customs declarations, repacking and other BS on 4 used stamps. That is pathetic, ....retarded, ......you name it!

Jules you have a grudge, I understand that, but, I repeat, you have to understand how eBay works. The guy did what had to be done for a shipment within the «eBay Global Shipping Program». What eBay customer service people say is to be taken with a HUGE grain of salt. Don't expect them to know anything about the site, they just read canned answers.

Since the seller is enrolled in the GSP, to ship direct to you and group the items for shipping, he would have had to create an exception for these sales within the GSP. You can read the eBay site I gave a link to yesterday to see when and how to do that, if you can figure it out. Most pro sellers have not been able to figure it out, as can be seen in any eBay related forum.

Chalk that to «experience» and learn to stay away from sellers that rely on the Global Shipping Program.

Memphre
I'm also Memphre on Delcampe. Always about 15,000 items in my Delcampe store: stamps, postcards and postal history. See it here: http://www.delcampe.net/boutiques/memphre

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by vikingeck »

Well Jules , this has opened my eyes . I'd never heard of the GLOBAL system until now and certainly can understand your fury at the exorbitant mailing charge for 4 little bits of paper!

Most times when I have been bidding I have assumed that normal postages would apply and that 2 or 3 lots would be combined by the seller as a single mailing charge.

If I spot that a seller has an unreasonable mailing charge in his listing I usually stay clear but NOT ALWAYS! and I have occasionally failed to spot it. This Global thing is certainly to be aware of in future and in the stamp trade surely something to avoid.
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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by julesjelev »

vikingeck wrote:Well Jules , this has opened my eyes . I'd never heard of the GLOBAL system until now and certainly can understand your fury at the exorbitant mailing charge for 4 little bits of paper!
I am furious because I had done my homework and asked about the shipping costs upfront.
Next time my question will be "Are you a member of the Global Screw Up Program?" :lol:

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by BrewDog »

Well, if you have some identical situation in the future, you can simply ask a seller to send you his e-mail address so you could pay him directly.
Yes, I do know ebay usually doesn't let you to post your e-mail address, but there is a simple trick.
You need to code it: instead of symbol [at], use a word, then put some space between symbols or words, etc.
It's up to you how to code it, but make it easy to uncode...
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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by julesjelev »

Brewdog, I know pretty well how to send my e-mail address to a person. The seller either did not know how or really did not want to send it.

By that time the situation had escalated that much that I preferred to pay whatever the balance was and get a refund.

But I had no idea half of my money would end up with Pitney Bowes.

This , in my view, is a fraudulent transaction. I did not know who I was paying and the seller had no clue how much the total on his lot was.

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by julesjelev »

This is what a Global Shipping program package looks like

Image

Image

The licenses purchased were about 2"x3" in size.
It took 14 days for this package to arrive after being tracked by two different systems and two different bar codes.

I also received 3 e-mails during the 14 day period. One informing me of the US tracking number. Another one giving me the Canadian tracking number and a third one confirming the delivery of the item. What a VIP item ! :lol:

The cost of the colorful strip of Ebay tape to me is CAD$17.50 paid in addition to the $4 USD that would have been more than enough to deliver the item and much quicker too.

Oh, I forgot about the $2 reimbursed to me by the seller. I do not see this amount anywhere in my Paypal account any more. The account's balance is currently $0. If the $2 was not refunded to the credit card it must have mysteriously disappeared. :D

Ebay is getting more fun by the day.

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by julesjelev »

Just an update on the case.

PayPal closed my claims without any explanation or additional questions asked.
When I tried to open a case in EBay, their smart software produced a message that PayPal does not allow them to open a case for this item.

So, as much as I hated to do that, I left 4 negatives with the seller focusing on the shipping costs, his lack of knowledge and the way Pitney Bowes / PayPal / Ebay operate. I will see how long it will take before Ebay removes the negative feedback to cover up its scam.

I may file a case with my credit card, which may not produce much but at least will make those guys spin their wheels to the point of losing money on the $15.38 they took from me without my permission.

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by cutbulls »

BrewDog wrote:Yes, I do know ebay usually doesn't let you to post your e-mail address, but there is a simple trick. You need to code it: instead of symbol (at), use a word, then put some space between symbols or words, etc. It's up to you how to code it, but make it easy to uncode...


Well, if you have some identical situation in the future, you can simply ask a seller to send you his e-mail address so you could pay him directly.Yes, I do know ebay usually doesn't let you to post your e-mail address, but there is a simple trick. You need to code it: instead of symbol (at), use a word, then put some space between symbols or words, etc. It's up to you how to code it, but make it easy to uncode...

I had a guy wanting to make a bulk purchase on ebay.au through ebay messages the other day, when I tried to send him my private email encoded with spaces everywhere and . spelt out and brackets all over the place, ebay still picked up it was an email address and would not send the email, clever little barstools :evil: :evil:






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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by julesjelev »

The update is that I got my $17+ paid to Pitney Bowes refunded by my credit card company/bank.

I sent a message to PayPal letting them know that I got the money but that this does not make it right as Pitney Bowes was the company supposed to issue the refund and the seller did not need to get all the negative feedback for falling into their trap.

I let PayPal know I am unhappy with how they handled my claim.

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by cazna »

Hi

To bypass Ebay's censorship of email addresses.

One simple way is to set it up as a word document then send
it as an attachment to the message.

Their computer program seems to look for the [at] sign as well as the word "at" in
combination with "bigpond", "gmail", "hotmail" etc.

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by Tassie_Stamps »

Good idea :)

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by ivqii »

and the seller did not need to get all the negative feedback
But you left 4 negatives in a fit of pique - will you not try to undo this?
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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by philatarium »

I also believe you overreacted in sending 4 negatives. You've ruined his ability to sell on eBay for some time now. And this just gives more justification to US sellers to not sell beyond the borders. (That's not a sentiment I agree with, but, between eBay's tactics and the now-complicated international postal rates that can cause what seemed like a $2 envelope to cost $6-7 or more, it's not surprising.)

I don't believe you should have sent the $28 payment in the first place. That's what caused this transaction to take place the way eBay wanted it to happen, not the way the seller was trying to arrange it.

I've just started trying to sell again on eBay after at least a 5-year hiatus. It is _much_ more complicated that it used to be, and there are many inadvertent false steps one can make. For instance, on the sell-an-item form, the box for eBay Global Shipping is automatically checked. You have to know to uncheck it. And the wording eBay puts around it looks like that offering this service is of great benefit and convenience to international buyers.
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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by Tassie_Stamps »

ivqii wrote:
and the seller did not need to get all the negative feedback
But you left 4 negatives in a fit of pique - will you not try to undo this?
Agree............

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by julesjelev »

Tassie_Stamps wrote:
ivqii wrote:
and the seller did not need to get all the negative feedback
But you left 4 negatives in a fit of pique - will you not try to undo this?
Agree............
How do you change feedback?

The bottom line is I was not happy with this transaction , I am still not happy with it, and I have no way of leaving feedback for Ebay and PitneyBowes.

They should allow the public to leave feedback for them.

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by ivqii »

julesjelev wrote:
Tassie_Stamps wrote:
ivqii wrote:
and the seller did not need to get all the negative feedback
But you left 4 negatives in a fit of pique - will you not try to undo this?
Agree............
How do you change feedback?

The bottom line is I was not happy with this transaction , I am still not happy with it, and I have no way of leaving feedback for Ebay and PitneyBowes.

They should allow the public to leave feedback for them.
Have you contacted eBay to find out if you can?
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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by Global Administrator »

julesjelev wrote:The update is that I got my $17+ paid to Pitney Bowes refunded by my credit card company/bank.

I sent a message to PayPal letting them know that I got the money but that this does not make it right as Pitney Bowes was the company supposed to issue the refund and the seller did not need to get all the negative feedback for falling into their trap.

I let PayPal know I am unhappy with how they handled my claim.
So you have wasted several hours of your time on this nickel and dime nonsense, wasting hours of everyone esle's time along the way as well, left 4 negatives to the poor schmuck who had no control over it, and are still unhappy. And CLAIM not to know how to remove idiotic and unjustified feedback. :roll: :roll:

Remind me again why I can't be bothered dealing with the nutter armies on ebay. And remind me again why paypal and ebay fees are so high. They need to employ vast armies of staff to deal with this North American Froot Loop madness.

Please promise to NEVER, EVER order anything off me - OK? The order will go in the deleted bin, and then you can waste a day whining to whomever you like about that. :idea:

If there was a global stamp dealer "No Fly" list, you'd certainly be in the top 1%.

No dealer needs "customers" like you. I've been in business for 35 years as I do not want them. :idea:

Glen

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by ivqii »

Well said Glen

Upthread I asked this poster for his eBay handle which he provided

I immediately added him to my list ( quite short ) of banned bidders
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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by julesjelev »

Global Administrator wrote:And CLAIM not to know how to remove idiotic and unjustified feedback. :roll: :roll:
Glen, you are going way overboard here.

Feedback is there to reflect how a transaction went. This is how this particular transaction went. And it was somewhat clear to me how it was going to go even at an earlier stage as indicated.

If I have no way of changing the feedback, that is fine with me. The feedback reflects the Global Shipping program and I believe it is well deserved.

Do not want to waste your time with this idiotic thread? Well, stop reading it and responding to it, and I will have no reason to respond either. Or delete it!

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by revenuecollector »

ivqii wrote:I immediately added him to my list ( quite short ) of banned bidders
Same here. No one needs buyers like this that cannot be satisfied. More headaches than they are worth.

To the OP: What you are missing is the impact of your 4 negatives and opened cases on the seller's ability to conduct business. By throwing a temper tantrum over something that was no fault of the seller, you've seriously put him in a bad place, especially with the new seller requirements being rolled out that look at opened cases *retroactively*.

P.S. eBay strips email addresses out of all communication, so when he said he couldn't send you his email address he was telling you the truth.

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by julesjelev »

revenuecollector wrote:
ivqii wrote:I immediately added him to my list ( quite short ) of banned bidders
This type of reaction is nothing short of pathetic.

My likelihood of buying anything from you is close to zero.
Even if I did buy something, you were going to get positive feedback, unless you did not know what you were doing, like the seller in this post.

Based on your criteria, you may track down all ebay users who have ever left a negative somewhere and ban them. Then see if you will be left with any customers at all.

You've actually done me a favor. I do not want to spend any money with you . :D

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by JaceStamps »

julesjelev wrote: This type of reaction is nothing short of pathetic.
Before you start a flame war.

Take a step back, look at the whole situation.

Now, if you are, in fact, Canadian, take the high road.

1. Apologise to the seller (publicly would be best, but a private email will suffice).

2. Admit you've made a mistake.

3. Move On, Live and Learn.......

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by julesjelev »

I wasn't going to change my feedback because I made a mistake.

The seller quoted $3 for shipping. He failed to ship the items for $3.
If I were him, (and as you can all see I have also sold items on ebay) I was going to refund the whole amount due (yes out of my pocket) and then try to get my money back from Ebay.

This is how the system works. A word is something that one has to keep.

Why I want to change the feedback? Because I am more upset with Ebay and Pitney Bowes than the seller. Also, I cannot have my money refunded and still have that negative feedback left.

The seller did not know about the program or how it worked, because he was tricked into it. He did not do the right thing, which I can now forgive him.

Jace, me no Canadian, me "untrained chimp from Calcutta". (to use Glen's terms) :lol:

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by vikingeck »

All very well , !!!

Sit on your grievance and nurse it to keep it warm ............................
Our sympathy for you has worn thin!


BUT! your negatives do not reflect on ebay or Pitney Bowes!!

They affect the seller!

It is easy to go to ebay resolution centre and ask to withdraw your negatives .

You got the stamps , you got your refund ---- at best the seller deserves a neutral.
whatever it is -------it's better than a poke in eye with a wet umbrella !

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by julesjelev »

vikingeck wrote:
It is easy to go to ebay resolution centre and ask to withdraw your negatives .
It has been done already. I called them and spoke with both Ebay and PayPal.

Ebay cannot do anything before the seller sends me a Feedback revision request. E-mailed the seller, so waiting on him now to initiate the process.

The interesting thing I learned was that the shipping charges paid are not disputable. This is why every claim made to Pitney Bowes will fail. I made my point though and was promised that the issue will be addressed.

I may be picking on words here, but I did not start a thread to get any sympathy.

This thread provides a bit of an insight on the Global Shipping program and may help some of the US sellers avoid problems with selling items.

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by Park Ranger »

As a buyer if I'm unhappy I don't leave feedback and don't deal with the seller again. As a seller if I get hassle from the buyer I block them from bidding on future auctions. Life's to short to play the games that some people want to play.

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by julesjelev »

Park Ranger wrote:Life's to short to play the games that some people want to play.
This whole thread is now water under the bridge. The seller has now 100% positive feedback. Not because of you who chimed in here, but because of me.

The option of leaving positive, negative or neutral feedback is there for a reason. If all people who would leave anything other than positive were considered a pest, then there is no point in the feedback option.

And , no, this is not a "game". If one is unhappy, there is probably a good reason for that. If one is a scammer , that is a different story. Go ahead and ban him/her.

I did learn things from this thread though. Thank you for taking participation and please do not respond.

The thread I believe should be closed.

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by revenuecollector »

Not because of you who chimed in here, but because of me.
Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.
The option of leaving positive, negative or neutral feedback is there for a reason. If all people who would leave anything other than positive were considered a pest, then there is no point in the feedback option.
You seem to have completely and utterly missed the points made by people replying to you in this thread.
Thank you for taking participation and please do not respond.
We'll respond whenever we darned well feel like, thank you very much. Dictating how others must act, especially in a venue you have no ownership stake in or moderation rights in, is the height of arrogance.
The thread I believe should be closed.
Why is it always the person who is in the minority opinion the one who wants a thread to be locked/deleted? Maybe to try and stifle debate and the opinions of those in opposition? It's a tactic commonly used by scammers and charlatans.

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by Global Administrator »

julesjelev wrote:
Jace, me no Canadian, me "untrained chimp from Calcutta".
Canada must be very proud that you emigrated there from India. :roll:

I personally am very pleased it was to Canada and not here, or doubtless you'd be scamming our systems for 10 bucks etc, even if it took you days, as it has occurred here.

One very useful North American phrase you'll really need to read up on is - "don't sweat the small stuff".

As to your ebay handle, not sure what it is, (can someone post it please?) but those adding it to their blocked lists are most wise I'd say.

No one here deserves to get idiotic and petulant negatives from something they have no control over.

Glen

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by Allanswood »

I don't understand the whole arguement.

This is what the item shows me and the expensive shipping to Australia and that it will be via the Global thingy with Pitney Bowes.

If I clicked buy or I won the item, that is exactly what I would expect to pay for it. Which means of course that I wouldn't have bid unless it was a screaming bargain.

So, it looks to me that you tried to bypass the shipping costs (which after all is very high - but tracked as is usually required).

Just chalk it up to experience and move on, having a heart attack over $15 is not worth it.

Image


edit: It also appears that the poor sellers feedback has been revised (?) as there are no negatives listed - as it should be.

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by julesjelev »

Allanswood wrote: edit: It also appears that the poor sellers feedback has been revised (?) as there are no negatives listed - as it should be.
.
Allan, if you took the time to read through this thread you would have known why I was expecting to pay $3 for the item and why the seller's feedback is now all positive. It is positive courtesy to me, because my credit card issued a courtesy refund in compensation for the excess shipping charges paid. The seller never offered an apology or the appropriate refund, so I owed him nothing, regardless what some may think.

As to you Glen and revenuecollector, continuing to post in this thread does not help your case any. I hope you realize that.

JaceStamps then screwed up, by questioning my Canadian origin. He, being a resident of Sarnia, should have known that the government he elected brings into his country between 250,000 and 500,000 new immigrants from all parts of the world each year, who can call themselves Canadians after about 5 years in Canada.

And, no, I do not come from India. I am white. But not white enough for JaceStamps as my ancestry is not British or Irish.

These were things that I never thought would be said on an international stamp exchange board, let alone by established hard core members.

Say what you will, no buyer owes a seller all positive feedback. If you sweep stuff under the rug and do not report it, you are doing the whole community a disservice. It is not just your right to leave the appropriate feedback, it is your responsibility.

Feedback was changed, after all, since the seller now knows what the Global Shipping program means to him. He will not repeat the same mistake again, and any negative feedback is therefore useless.

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by revenuecollector »

julesjelev wrote: As to you Glen and revenuecollector, continuing to post in this thread does not help your case any. I hope you realize that.
Oh, the irony...

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Re: What would you do in this case? - Seller unwilling to se

Post by jjarmstrong47 »

Having just read this entire thread for the first time, I seem to have come to a different conclusion to most of the posters above. As I see it julesjelev had a valid complaint and came to the board to seek other opinions. I did not know of the global system till now but have been well warned by this thread.

How else can a buyer voice a complaint other than through a feedback system. The problem is not that julesjelev voiced his dissatisfaction, it is eBay's stupid way of calculating things so that anything less than 100% is looked on as a poor seller. If you are not happy with a transaction, why should you leave positive feedback, though personally, I prefer to leave no feedback at all.

It was not julesjelev's fault that the seller did not understand how eBay works. It is up to sellers to keep themselves aware of changes and act accordingly. Perhaps the best advice to come from all this is to look to Delcampe instead.

I also think that there has been a disappointing level of invective in this thread. Personal attacks and racial slurs should have no place in an international forum like this. Surely we can do better.
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