Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

We all have and handle these from time to time. "Back of book", Revenues, "Cinderellas", duty stamps and all kinds of other stamp like labels. Discuss them all HERE!

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

Happy Christmas! It's a happy Christmas for me, as I get to finally open Adam Miller's "Stamps on Music". The book is superb, and it's already answering many questions I been asking since starting to 'harvest' copyright stamps from 78s and Pianola rolls over the last couple of months.

First up is this stamp I found on a roll last week. It looked rather unusual to me, and so it turns out to be.

The attachment S057b.jpg is no longer available
.


The Universal Music Company made Pianola rolls from 1909, and records from 1919, and the company was sold in 1924. The stamp is RRR = Very Rare (1 or 2 copies known or sighted). There are 2 examples listed in the catalogue: 2d and 3 3/4d, both values in black manuscript on green, so I'm pleased my example has a new value on it.

The attachment S128J.jpg is no longer available
.
The background pattern is surely just an unfortunate coincidence, though the symbol was used by Hindus, Buddhists and Jains for millennia as a sacred symbol of love and hope before being adopted by Hitler in, I believe, 1920.

Universal Music Co. Pianola roll
Universal Music Co. Pianola roll

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

[sorry, this is a re-post of the previous one which had images missing]
Happy Christmas! It's a happy Christmas for me, as I get to finally open Adam Miller's "Stamps on Music". The book is superb, and it's already answering many questions I been asking since starting to 'harvest' copyright stamps from 78s and Pianola rolls over the last couple of months.

First up is this stamp I found on a roll last week. It looked rather unusual to me, and so it turns out to be.

Universal Music Co. roll
Universal Music Co. roll


The Universal Music Company made Pianola rolls from 1909, and records from 1919, and the company was sold in 1924. The stamp is RRR = Very Rare (1 or 2 copies known or sighted). There are 2 examples listed in the catalogue: 2d and 3 3/4d, both values in black manuscript on green, so I'm pleased my example has a different value on it.

Universal Music Co stamp 2 1/4d
Universal Music Co stamp 2 1/4d
.
The background pattern is surely just an unfortunate coincidence, though the symbol was used by Hindus, Buddhists and Jains for millennia as a sacred symbol of love and hope before being adopted by Hitler in, I believe, 1920.

Universal Music Co. Stamp, close crop
Universal Music Co. Stamp, close crop

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

My main focus at the moment is on picking up job lots of Pianola rolls on eBay to harvest them for the copyright stamps. I don't have a Pianola, so once I have the stamps I sell the rolls on.

The idea, then, is to buy only the rolls with stamps on, but it turns out that sellers are extremely reluctant to sort through their collections in advance of the sale when asked if the rolls have a lot of stamps on them, and on the 2 occasions I asked the question, the sellers ignored it.

So until I gain experience (or a very helpful dealer) I'll have to make the best guess I can. The success rate has been quite low so far, at around 35% with stamps, but this should improve as I get to learn about which types of roll to focus on.

The copyright generally runs out after 50 years from the death of the composer, so I'm avoiding old Classical music rolls where possible. And anything with "ballad" or "folk song" on it tends to indicate that it's an old traditional tune with no composer to pay.

Anything with contemporary music, foxtrot and other dance music, is a good bet, it seems, and any song rolls too. I took a chance with 30 rolls of "88 note Aeolian 26,000 series" as it said in the listing that many were "with words." It was a good decision, as the yield was 26 stamps from the 30.

BUT there were quite a few duplicates, with 2 sets of 5 the same.

I was saved from despair this morning ,though, as when I checked one set in "Stamps on Music" it seems the 8d value is new to the set. The RRR rating in the book = Very Rare: '1 or 2 copies known', and R = Rare: 'More than 2 but less than 10 copies known or sighted'. So if I'm reading the entry correctly, The Lawrence Wright Music Co. London stamp, type 3, 8d, typewritten in black on Orange, Date 1924 (Miller 033) jumps straight from 'unsighted' to R without bothering to go through RRR on the way :). The other values in the catalogue are much lower than 8d so presumably they came from 78rpm records, which were generally much cheaper than Pianola rolls, so attracted a lower payment to the composer.
It's a shame the ink ran on the last stamp while wetting it off. I've now started wetting the back of the roll paper to get "suspect" stamps off, so the surface stays dry and undamaged.

Lawrence Wright stamp 8d
Lawrence Wright stamp 8d

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

Two mystery stamps here. Well, they are a mystery to me anyway. Both are from 78rpm records, but unfortunately this was the early days of my collecting, and I didn't write down which ones.
The first one looks like a copyright stamp, as it's perforated and it's the 'correct' size; around 20mm x 20mm.
J. E. Beale, Bournemouth was a department store - in fact it still is, though the original building was destroyed in 1943 during the war - so perhaps it's just a sales label. It's odd that it was gummed onto the record itself, and was clearly made not to be removed.

J.E Beale Ltd stamp on 78rpm record
J.E Beale Ltd stamp on 78rpm record
.
The second one is rather more intriguing. It's small - around 14mm x 14mm - and the letters are difficult to make out. I thought they were perhaps B.F.F but a friend who knows a bit more about fonts than me suggests it's B.S&P. In any case, looking through "Music on Stamps" I can't find any record of it, nor any good result from an online search for a company with those initials, so either I'm looking in the wrong place or perhaps it really is something unusual?
The background colour is due to the ink coming off the original label onto the back of the stamp, not on the original stamp itself.

B.S&P copyright stamp
B.S&P copyright stamp
.

Back of B.S&P copyright stamp
Back of B.S&P copyright stamp

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

I'm working my way through Adam Miller's "Stamps on Music" and cross referencing my collection, and I appear to have quite a few stamps with values that are not currently catalogued ,and one set of 3 which I can't find at all.

This could be due to my being a newbie at both philately in general and copyright stamps in particular, but I'll post here what I think I have and then I'll wait for confirmation or disconfirmation from a 'higher power'. :)

Today I'll just do the Lawrence Wright ones. These 7 stamps are all from Pianola rolls.
Lawrence Wright was a music publisher and the company was formed in 1906 in Leicester. The entries for the Lawrence Wright stamps are spread over 4 pages, so there's plenty of scope for error for the inexperienced. I'd be surprised if I've got everything right, but equally surprised if I've got everything wrong...

I have 3 stamps from Set Number 023: "Type 2, Date 1925. Perf 11. Value typewritten in black" on page 242 in Miller, A. 'Stamps on music' 2017.

First up is this 5 ¼ d blue. There's a 4 ¼ blue and a 5 ¾ in the listing but I can't see a 5 ¼d so I'm hoping this is a new value. One problem I'm having with all of these is that they are listed as Perf 11, but when I count, I get 10 max and sometimes 9. I must be missing a perf or 2 somehow.

Lawrence Wright blue 5 1⁄4d stamp
Lawrence Wright blue 5 1⁄4d stamp


Next is the red version from the same set. The highest value I can see for the red in Set 023 is 2 1⁄2d so this 8d one could be a new value too.


Lawrence Wright red 8d stamp
Lawrence Wright red 8d stamp


And for the blue, the highest is 5 ¾d so I've also got hopes for this 8d.

Lawrence Wright blue 8d stamp
Lawrence Wright blue 8d stamp
Next is this one from Set Number 043 (page 243) "Type 4. Perf 11. Value typewritten in black".
The highest value I can see listed is 1⁄2d but this one is 5 1⁄2d:

Lawrence Wright purple 5 1⁄2d stamp
Lawrence Wright purple 5 1⁄2d stamp


And finally, 3 rolls have these stamps on, which I can't find at all in the catalogue! Fingers crossed they are something new...

Lawrence Wright  2 1⁄4d stamp
Lawrence Wright 2 1⁄4d stamp

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Congrats Iain on the many new finds! There's plenty more out there, and Pianola rolls tends to have more interesting and scarcer stamps, especially the provisional items like many of the ones you've found above.
I suspect that's because they were produced in very small runs so would have only ordered a few of some value at a time from the various stamp suppliers.

I've updated my working copy of the 3rd edition with those new finds - past performance says it will come out in 2027!

The J.E. Beale Ltd is a shop label, of the type usually found stuck on 78s advertising the shop selling the record. They can form an interesting side-collection. There's another thread here that picks up on some of these, along with booksellers labels. https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=16848

The BS&P is actually BS&S for Barnett Samuel & Sons. That had me baffled when I first found them but as they kept turning up on JUMBO records that they produced I could finally make the link.

The Lawrence Wright 2¼d I have seen since the 2nd Edition came out, it will be part of set 040.

Finally stamp collectors count perfs per 2cm, not just how many are on the side of the stamp. You need to get yourself a Perforation gauge, like a Stanley Gibbons Instanta. They're cheap and readily available.

Cheers
Adam

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

Thanks for the confirmations and clarifications there Adam! I'm much inspired to list the many other I think are new finds too, and will do so over the coming days.

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

There's a listing in 'stamps on Music' (Miller, A) for a French issue of the Italian music publisher G. Ricordi, catalogued as F060, Type F6 (c1930).
It has a large green square in the corner with a '2' on it. I came across an example of the stamp on a Pianola roll recently, but it has a '1' in the corner instead of the '2', so it appears to be a new find. Later I found another example in the same batch, and then last week, a third one from a different seller. Searching online I've only been able to find an image or a reference to the '2' version, so it's possible I have the only 3 sighted examples of the '1'!

G. Ricordi French issue stamp on pianola roll
G. Ricordi French issue stamp on pianola roll

G. Ricordi French issue stamp number 1
G. Ricordi French issue stamp number 1

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

Here's another example of how it's easier to find previously unsighted music copyright stamps on Pianola rolls rather than 78 rpm records.

My modest collection of German publisher Bosworth & Co. stamps was limited to these examples taken from 78 rpm records, all Great Britain issues (Miller, A. 'Stamps on Music' 2017)
GB010 1927-29. Type GB1. 'Value printed in frame colour':
2 of ¾d black, type (II) font (scarce)
2 of 1⅛d yellow-green (scarce)
1 of 1 ⅜d orange (common)
1 of 2 ¾d blue (rare)

Looking through 55 Pianola rolls I picked up as a job lot though, I found this one:
GB011 1925-29. Magenta. 'Value in manuscript in black'.
There are 4 examples in the listing, all RRR (known from only one or two examples), but the value of 4 ¼d is a new find:

Bosworth & Co. Ltd.  stamps
Bosworth & Co. Ltd. stamps


And here's a better scan of it:

Bosworth & Co. stamp 4 1/4d
Bosworth & Co. stamp 4 1/4d

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

This is an interesting find on a Pianola roll, as it has a previously unsighted value on it, and also has 'mystery' initials in manuscript.

The Incorporated Society Of Authors Playwrights & Composers  stamp
The Incorporated Society Of Authors Playwrights & Composers stamp


'Stamps on Music' (Miller, A. 2017) states that The Incorporated Society Of Authors, Playwrights & Composers was a copyright agency which played "a strong role in both the establishment of the 1911 Copyright Act, and in the production and distribution of the stamps for its members" within a month of the regulations coming into force (June 1912).

The stamp is a Set Number 020 example, and the "coarser and slightly smaller" lettering identifies it as a Type 2a rather than a Type 2b, so this dates the stamp to 1912 or 1913; the very early days of the introduction of the stamps. I love the fact that the broken C in SOCIETY is diagnostic in the identification of Type 2a lettering!

Broken C: diagnostic for Type 2a lettering
Broken C: diagnostic for Type 2a lettering


The highest value shown in the catalogue is 1 ¾d so this 2 ¾d one is new.
"Almost every item has the initials of a composer member in the lower panel", but the initials, B. Y (?) are not listed, and searching online, I can't find a composer named H. B. Gardner either so it's a bit of a mystery.

The Incorporated Society Of Authors Playwrights & Composers  stamp 2 3/4d
The Incorporated Society Of Authors Playwrights & Composers stamp 2 3/4d

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote:
31 Dec 2020 04:16
This is an interesting find on a Pianola roll, as it has a previously unsighted value on it, and also has 'mystery' initials in manuscript.

Image


'Stamps on Music' (Miller, A. 2017) states that The Incorporated Society Of Authors, Playwrights & Composers was a copyright agency which played "a strong role in both the establishment of the 1911 Copyright Act, and in the production and distribution of the stamps for its members" within a month of the regulations coming into force (June 1912).

The stamp is a Set Number 020 example, and the "coarser and slightly smaller" lettering identifies it as a Type 2a rather than a Type 2b, so this dates the stamp to 1912 or 1913; the very early days of the introduction of the stamps. I love the fact that the broken C in SOCIETY is diagnostic in the identification of Type 2a lettering!

Image


The highest value shown in the catalogue is 1 ¾d so this 2 ¾d one is new.
"Almost every item has the initials of a composer member in the lower panel", but the initials, B. Y (?) are not listed, and searching online, I can't find a composer named H. B. Gardner either so it's a bit of a mystery.

Image
H. Balfour Gardiner composed the above, seems to be first published 1905. He seems to have been quite prolific and there are many Google hits under this spelling. His name has been mis-spelled on the roll, oddly. He obviously preferred to use his middle name, hence the "BG" on the stamp.

Being published before 1912, or first issued in the initial year of the Act, means the royalty for a non-word roll should have been 2.5%, implying a roll price of about 9/- - does that seem right?

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »



I asked the question of Kevin McElhone, author of "Mechanical Music" and several other related books, and he had this to say:

"9/- for that roll seems rather high, but if they were especially pushing that composer as being ‘this year's new wonder’, for example, they may well have priced him higher than average. You have to remember that these player pianos cost a fortune. A pianola Pushup in December 1902 was £65."

I put those numbers into an online converter and it suggests that £65 in the early 1900s was the equivalent today of well over £5,500, and 9 shillings was a day's wages for a skilled tradesman in 1912 or 1913, and equates to around £35 in today's money.


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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

Two new finds today. The first is about as uninspiring a stamp as you could hope to see, with part of the side missing, and a simple plain design. But it's worth posting as it's a new value for this stamp and possibly a member of a new set.
Found on a Pianola roll, it's a Joseph Williams stamp. The only set number I can see in the "Stamps on Music" catalogue with a manuscript value is Set 011, with a highest value in the current catalogue of 1¾d, but those are on a blue background so perhaps this doesn't fit into any current set? At 8d it's certainly a new value anyway.

Joseph Williams stamp 8d
Joseph Williams stamp 8d


The second stamp is much prettier; a C. Villiers Stanford stamp. The manuscript in black with 35 background lines identifies this as Set 031, Type 3, dated 1926-1930.
The current highest value in the catalogue for this set is 2d, so this 4 ½d one is a new addition.

C. Villiers Stanford stamp 4 ½d
C. Villiers Stanford stamp 4 ½d


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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote:
30 Dec 2020 00:01
There's a listing in 'stamps on Music' (Miller, A) for a French issue of the Italian music publisher G. Ricordi, catalogued as F060, Type F6 (c1930).
It has a large green square in the corner with a '2' on it. I came across an example of the stamp on a Pianola roll recently, but it has a '1' in the corner instead of the '2', so it appears to be a new find. Later I found another example in the same batch, and then last week, a third one from a different seller. Searching online I've only been able to find an image or a reference to the '2' version, so it's possible I have the only 3 sighted examples of the '1'!


Image

Image
Yes, that's a new one. I wonder what the "2" signifies. Below is the much earlier post showing the "1"
https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=56865
adam78 wrote:
08 Oct 2016 10:07
A striking piece - a tri-colour French stamp for an Italian publisher on an Argentinian roll, c.1930.

Image

Image
Last edited by adam78 on 01 Jan 2021 09:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote:
31 Dec 2020 21:48


I asked the question of Kevin McElhone, author of "Mechanical Music" and several other related books, and he had this to say:

"9/- for that roll seems rather high, but if they were especially pushing that composer as being ‘this year's new wonder’, for example, they may well have priced him higher than average. You have to remember that these player pianos cost a fortune. A pianola Pushup in December 1902 was £65."

I put those numbers into an online converter and it suggests that £65 in the early 1900s was the equivalent today of well over £5,500, and 9 shillings was a day's wages for a skilled tradesman in 1912 or 1913, and equates to around £35 in today's money.

Then it must be a post 1914 roll, so a 5% rate selling at 4/6d. What we need are contemporary price lists of these rolls.

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

adam78 wrote:
01 Jan 2021 09:44
Iain P wrote:
30 Dec 2020 00:01
There's a listing in 'stamps on Music' (Miller, A) for a French issue of the Italian music publisher G. Ricordi, catalogued as F060, Type F6 (c1930).
It has a large green square in the corner with a '2' on it. I came across an example of the stamp on a Pianola roll recently, but it has a '1' in the corner instead of the '2', so it appears to be a new find. Later I found another example in the same batch, and then last week, a third one from a different seller. Searching online I've only been able to find an image or a reference to the '2' version, so it's possible I have the only 3 sighted examples of the '1'!


Image

Image
Yes, that's a new one. I wonder what the "2" signifies. Below is the much earlier post showing the "1"
https://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=56865
adam78 wrote:
08 Oct 2016 10:07
A striking piece - a tri-colour French stamp for an Italian publisher on an Argentinian roll, c.1930.

Image

Image
Thanks Adam, I'll be posting up more "new finds" today.
By the way, it looks like the payment represented by this stamp was in fact claimed under somewhat false pretences!
"Authorship and copyright
For nearly 75 years after its publication, the music of ’O sole mio had generally been attributed to Eduardo di Capua alone. According to the traditional account, di Capua had composed it in April 1898 in Odessa, while touring with his father's band. It has turned out, however, that the melody was an elaboration of one of 23 which di Capua had bought from another musician, Alfredo Mazzucchi, in the preceding year.

In November 1972, shortly after her father's death, Mazzucchi's daughter lodged a declaration with Italy’s Office of Literary, Artistic and Scientific Property, which sought to have her father recognised as a co-composer of 18 of di Capua's songs, including ’O sole mio. In October 2002, Maria Alvau, a judge in Turin, upheld the declaration, ruling that Mazzucchi had indeed been a legitimate co-composer of the 18 songs, because they included melodies he had composed and then sold to di Capua in June of 1897, with a written authorisation for the latter to make free use of them. At the time of the decision, therefore, the melody of ’O sole mio had not yet—as had been widely supposed—entered into the public domain in any country that was a party to the Berne Convention during the relevant period. In most countries where copyright in a work lasts for 70 years after any of its authors' deaths, the melody will remain under copyright until 2042."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27O_sole_mio

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

Here's my collection of B. Feldman & Co. stamps. There are 3 previously unsighted values here, on 4 of the 10 stamps. There are 2 ½ pages in "Stamps on Music" devoted to the Feldman stamps so there's a significant margin for error here for the newcomer like me but here goes...
First up are the stamps with the early address on: 2 & 3 Arthur Street W. C.
On the left we have Set Number 030 (date range: 1913-1919) Type 3, value in frame colour. Font F1. Subset B, ½d red-lilac. Common
In the centre is Set Number 040 (date range 1919-1926) Type 4, value in frame colour.
Font F3. 2d green. Rare. It's useful to see the 2 stamps next to each other as the difference in font and size of lettering is apparent.
On the right is an example of Set Number 031 (dates: 1913-1919) Type 3, value in manuscript in black 4 ½d red. RRR= very rare. Only one or two copies known or sighted.

B. Feldman stamps 030, 040, 031
B. Feldman stamps 030, 040, 031


Now for the 7 which have the later Shaftsbury Avenue address.
This is from Set Number 052 (date range: 1923-1929) value hand-stamped in violet. At first I thought the value was 2 2/4d which didn't really make much sense, but going back to the scan of the roll pre-soak, I think it's clear in the close up insert that it's 2 ¼d. The only catalogued value for set 052 is currently 1½d so this is a new value for the set.

B. Feldman stamp 2 ¼d
B. Feldman stamp 2 ¼d

B. Feldman stamp 2 ¼d on roll
B. Feldman stamp 2 ¼d on roll


Now for Set Number 051 (date range: 1923-48) Type 5. Manuscript in black on red, starting with the 'known' values. 2 ¼d Very Rare.

B. Feldman stamp 2 ¼d in manuscript
B. Feldman stamp 2 ¼d in manuscript


Next are the 8d values. Rare.

B. Feldman stamps 8d in manuscript
B. Feldman stamps 8d in manuscript


And now a new value. There's a 5 ¼d in the catalogue but not this one, a 5 ½d

B. Feldman stamp 5 ½d in manuscript
B. Feldman stamp 5 ½d in manuscript


And 2 copies of another new value: 4d.

B. Feldman stamps 4d in manuscript
B. Feldman stamps 4d in manuscript


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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

Here's my Keith Prowse collection:
17 stamps, including 5 values on 8 stamps not currently listed in "Stamps on Music" (2017) .
Here goes, in the order the sets appear in the catalogue:
Set 010. Date 1917-30. Type 1. Reddish-violet.
1x½d (scarce), 3x ¾d (common)
1x 1 ½d (rare) and 4x 2 ¼d (not currently listed)

Keith Prowse stamp  ½d
Keith Prowse stamp ½d

Keith Prowse stamps  ¾d
Keith Prowse stamps ¾d

Keith Prowse stamp 1 ½d
Keith Prowse stamp 1 ½d

Keith Prowse stamps 2 ¼d
Keith Prowse stamps 2 ¼d


Set 011. 1925. Type 1. Reddish-violet. Value in manuscript in black.
1x () (scarce), 1x 5½d (not currently listed), 8d (not currently listed)

Keith Prowse stamp ()
Keith Prowse stamp ()

Keith Prowse stamps 5 ½d & 8d
Keith Prowse stamps 5 ½d & 8d


Set 013. 1925. Type 1. Reddish-violet. Value typewritten in black.
1x ¼d (not currently listed)

Keith Prowse stamp ½d in manuscript
Keith Prowse stamp ½d in manuscript


Set 020. 1922-26. Type 2. Value overprinted in red, sideways left.
1x () (rare)

Keith Prowse stamp ()
Keith Prowse stamp ()


Set 021. c1925. Type 2 .Value in manuscript in black.
1x ¼d (not currently listed)

Keith Prowse stamp ¼d in manuscript
Keith Prowse stamp ¼d in manuscript


And finally, Set 025 (Set 020 surcharged, sideways left) 1925. Type 2
2x 2d on ½d purple (rare)

Keith Prowse stamps 2d on ½d purple
Keith Prowse stamps 2d on ½d purple


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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote:
02 Jan 2021 01:51
Here's my collection of B. Feldman & Co. stamps.
Now for the 7 which have the later Shaftsbury Avenue address.

...

And now a new value. There's a 5 ¼d in the catalogue but not this one, a 5 ½d

Image


Some nice new ones there, but I note that the 5 ½d here is the smaller size "ARTHUR ST" one, from set 031. Still a new addition to the catalogue.

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote:
04 Jan 2021 04:10
Here's my Keith Prowse collection:
17 stamps, including 5 values on 8 stamps not currently listed in "Stamps on Music" (2017) .
Here goes, in the order the sets appear in the catalogue:
Set 010. Date 1917-30. Type 1. Reddish-violet.
1x½d (scarce), 3x ¾d (common)
1x 1 ½d (rare) and 4x 2 ¼d (not currently listed)

Image

Image

Image

Image


Set 011. 1925. Type 1. Reddish-violet. Value in manuscript in black.
1x () (scarce), 1x 5½d (not currently listed), 8d (not currently listed)

Image

Image


Set 013. 1925. Type 1. Reddish-violet. Value typewritten in black.
1x ¼d (not currently listed)

Image


Set 020. 1922-26. Type 2. Value overprinted in red, sideways left.
1x () (rare)

Image


Set 021. c1925. Type 2 .Value in manuscript in black.
1x ¼d (not currently listed)

Image


And finally, Set 025 (Set 020 surcharged, sideways left) 1925. Type 2
2x 2d on ½d purple (rare)

Image

New additions duly noted Iain. It's nice to see a couple of joined pairs - as I note in the book multiples are scarce.
It would be great to have some collectors in Europe, Australia, USA and South America being able to look into accumulations of piano rolls there as well - certain to be lots more uncatalogued stamps to be found.

Also good to see a couple of new ¼d values. I was contacted years back by a collector in the US who collected farthing stamps. I was able to help him out with a few spares of other ¼d copyright stamps I had.

Adam

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

adam78 wrote:
04 Jan 2021 05:56
Iain P wrote:
02 Jan 2021 01:51
Here's my collection of B. Feldman & Co. stamps.
Now for the 7 which have the later Shaftsbury Avenue address.

...

And now a new value. There's a 5 ¼d in the catalogue but not this one, a 5 ½d

Image


Some nice new ones there, but I note that the 5 ½d here is the smaller size "ARTHUR ST" one, from set 031. Still a new addition to the catalogue.
Ha thanks. I was determined not to make a mistake yet still I did!
Iain

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

adam78 wrote:
04 Jan 2021 06:09
Iain P wrote:
04 Jan 2021 04:10
Here's my Keith Prowse collection:
17 stamps, including 5 values on 8 stamps not currently listed in "Stamps on Music" (2017) .
Here goes, in the order the sets appear in the catalogue:
Set 010. Date 1917-30. Type 1. Reddish-violet.
1x½d (scarce), 3x ¾d (common)
1x 1 ½d (rare) and 4x 2 ¼d (not currently listed)

Image

Image

Image

Image


Set 011. 1925. Type 1. Reddish-violet. Value in manuscript in black.
1x () (scarce), 1x 5½d (not currently listed), 8d (not currently listed)

Image

Image


Set 013. 1925. Type 1. Reddish-violet. Value typewritten in black.
1x ¼d (not currently listed)

Image


Set 020. 1922-26. Type 2. Value overprinted in red, sideways left.
1x () (rare)

Image


Set 021. c1925. Type 2 .Value in manuscript in black.
1x ¼d (not currently listed)

Image


And finally, Set 025 (Set 020 surcharged, sideways left) 1925. Type 2
2x 2d on ½d purple (rare)

Image

New additions duly noted Iain. It's nice to see a couple of joined pairs - as I note in the book multiples are scarce.
It would be great to have some collectors in Europe, Australia, USA and South America being able to look into accumulations of piano rolls there as well - certain to be lots more uncatalogued stamps to be found.

Also good to see a couple of new ¼d values. I was contacted years back by a collector in the US who collected farthing stamps. I was able to help him out with a few spares of other ¼d copyright stamps I had.

Adam
Thanks Adam. I've been very lucky to find someone who is prepared to sort through many hundreds of rolls and has come up with some great finds, including lots of rolls with 2 songs on so there are some more with joined pairs, and he has also looked through many rolls from USA and come up with at least one "special" looking stamp, which I'll be collecting tomorrow and will share here.
Iain

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

Here's the new pride of my collection, which I received today.
Thanks to Kevin McElhone who very kindly looked through around 300 of his personal collection of USA Pianola rolls hunting for stamps for me. There was only one to be found, but it's a beauty: a new issue (set) from Sam Fox.
I'll let more experienced eyes than mine interpret the stamp, and the text on the roll and box but it seems that the 12 on the stamp represents 12 cents, and the original copyright is 1914, with this played version for Rythmodik having a copyright date of 1918.
The serial number is intriguing but a search has not come up with anything yet.
The stamp is around 22mm x 24mm.

Sam Fox 12 cent stamp
Sam Fox 12 cent stamp

Sam Fox 12 cent stamp on roll
Sam Fox 12 cent stamp on roll

Sam Fox 12 cent stamp on roll close up
Sam Fox 12 cent stamp on roll close up

Sam Fox 12 cent stamp. Roll text
Sam Fox 12 cent stamp. Roll text

Sam Fox 12 cent stamp. Box end
Sam Fox 12 cent stamp. Box end
Sam Fox 12 cent stamp. Box
Sam Fox 12 cent stamp. Box

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Some US publishers in 1917-18 trialled using coil stamps (each individually numbered) to show the 6c (rolls under $1) or 12c royalty due. Most also had a serial code letter A through to F etc.

More background here: http://www.78rpm.net.nz/mechcopy/usrolls.htm

Nice new find!

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

Excellent! Thanks. I did wonder about the lack of perforations top and bottom. I'm soaking off some more interesting stamps now from a new batch of 70 rolls.
Iain
adam78 wrote:
05 Jan 2021 11:14
Some US publishers in 1917-18 trialled using coil stamps (each individually numbered) to show the 6c (rolls under $1) or 12c royalty due. Most also had a serial code letter A through to F etc.

More background here: http://www.78rpm.net.nz/mechcopy/usrolls.htm

Nice new find!

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

Here's a couple of rather exciting new finds today on BIEM and Societe Generale de l'Edition Phonographique (EDIFO) stamps.
The French copyright agency Societe Generale de l'Edition Phonographique, I read in "Stamps on Music", was formed in 1909, and EDIFO was trademarked in 1910. It morphed into B.I.E.M in 1929.
First, here are the "normals" in my collection: 2 of BIEM, set X090, Type X9, (date: 1931-36), subset B, no underprint, ¼d and ¾d, blue and brown CRYSTALATE, both R= Rare.
Also 1 of set 050, (date 1929-41) Type B. (Common)

3 BIEM stamps, set X090 and 050
3 BIEM stamps, set X090 and 050


And now the specials. I took this BIEM off a Pianola roll a few days ago, (Standard Roll 25215B, STANDCHEN [Seranade] op. 21. J. Heykens) but thought it was a duplicate of one of the above. On close inspection, though, it's very different! The name Goodson is printed in colour, but that is not listed in the catalogue. Also the overprint in black, Universal Music, is not listed, and nor is the manuscript value of 3 ½d. In fact the only stamp I can see in the catalogue with a manuscript value is a X096, surcharge value. There's no underprint on the stamp either, and the highest value of any of the BIEM British Agency values is 1 5⁄8 d so I'm at a loss as to which set it should go in. A new set perhaps?

BIEM stamp unknown set
BIEM stamp unknown set


And the fun doesn't stop there. Thanks to Kevin McElhone for passing on to me this lovely EDIFO stamp he found on one of his rolls.
Here's the roll box end. The leader sticker has come off so there's no more information on the roll itself.

EDIFO stamp, box end
EDIFO stamp, box end


It looks like a member of Set 75 (date 1920-27): M in all 4 corners, pale orange with name printed on black background but the overprint of AEOLIAN across it is not currently listed, as far as I can see.

EDIFO with AEOLIAN overprint
EDIFO with AEOLIAN overprint


It's a big stamp. It seems slightly larger than the catalogue dimension given of 25mm for the design. The design here looks more like 27mm:

EDIFO dimensions
EDIFO dimensions


Anyway, it dwarfs the standard sized BIEM one:

BIEM vrs EDIFO sizes
BIEM vrs EDIFO sizes


There's a lot of fine detail too, when you get in close:

EDIFO close crop
EDIFO close crop


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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote:
06 Jan 2021 05:01
I took this BIEM off a Pianola roll a few days ago, (Standard Roll 25215B, STANDCHEN [Seranade] op. 21. J. Heykens) but thought it was a duplicate of one of the above. On close inspection, though, it's very different! The name Goodson is printed in colour, but that is not listed in the catalogue. Also the overprint in black, Universal Music, is not listed, and nor is the manuscript value of 3 ½d. In fact the only stamp I can see in the catalogue with a manuscript value is a X096, surcharge value. There's no underprint on the stamp either, and the highest value of any of the BIEM British Agency values is 1 5⁄8 d so I'm at a loss as to which set it should go in. A new set perhaps?

Image


Yep, that'll be a new set for BIEM type X9, X091 - value in manuscript.
I'm guessing this is dated after the demise of Goodson (c.1931) and BIEM UK were using up stamp stock rather than getting small numbers of a new design created.

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote:
06 Jan 2021 05:01
It looks like a member of Set 75 (date 1920-27): M in all 4 corners, pale orange with name printed on black background but the overprint of AEOLIAN across it is not currently listed, as far as I can see.

Image


It's a big stamp. It seems slightly larger than the catalogue dimension given of 25mm for the design. The design here looks more like 27mm:

Image
I have obtained this overprint since the second edition was printed, but the AEOLIAN handstamp is in violet rather than slate. And my stamp is orange and brown rather than orange and black. I wish I knew what the colour combinations signified.

EDIFO AEOLIAN overprint
EDIFO AEOLIAN overprint
And you're right about the measurement - I'm embarrassed to see that a typo of 25mm instead of the correct 27mm was in the first edition and not noticed to be corrected for the second. :oops:
All the 25mm references for the types 5a to 5c for Societe Generale should be 27mm.

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

adam78 wrote:
07 Jan 2021 08:25
Iain P wrote:
06 Jan 2021 05:01
It looks like a member of Set 75 (date 1920-27): M in all 4 corners, pale orange with name printed on black background but the overprint of AEOLIAN across it is not currently listed, as far as I can see.

Image


It's a big stamp. It seems slightly larger than the catalogue dimension given of 25mm for the design. The design here looks more like 27mm:

Image
I have obtained this overprint since the second edition was printed, but the AEOLIAN handstamp is in violet rather than slate. And my stamp is orange and brown rather than orange and black. I wish I knew what the colour combinations signified.


Image

And you're right about the measurement - I'm embarrassed to see that a typo of 25mm instead of the correct 27mm was in the first edition and not noticed to be corrected for the second. :oops:
All the 25mm references for the types 5a to 5c for Societe Generale should be 27mm.
Ha, thanks Adam, I kept measuring and re-measuring as I assumed I must be making a newbie mistake! :)

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

3 new finds today, and 2 form new sets for "Stamps on Music" I believe.
All 3 are from Pianola rolls.
First up is this tiny Walsh Holmes and Co. stamp. The detail is just 13mm x 13mm.
It's Set 021 (dates: 1928-31). Type 2 (which is the one with the 'Ltd'. in the company name) Value in manuscript in black.
The current highest value in this set is 2 ⅓d so this 4d is a new one.

Walsh Holmes & Co. Ltd. Stamp 4d in manuscript
Walsh Holmes & Co. Ltd. Stamp 4d in manuscript


Next are 2 Montgomery & Co. stamps, also 13mm.
The first is a standard Set 010 (dates: 1927-29) Value typeset in black. ¾d orange, 'a' style (serif font and no dot under the D)

Montgomery & Co. stamp ¾d typeset orange
Montgomery & Co. stamp ¾d typeset orange


The second stamp has a 2 written on orange, but there is no set for manuscript on orange, so it's a new one (I think..)

Montgomery & Co. stamp 2d
Montgomery & Co. stamp 2d


And another new set with this Cambridge Music stamp.
There are no sets for 'values in manuscript' so this must be a new one. It's hard to make out the value, as part of the paper has been scuffed, but on close inspection it can only be a 4, so it's 2 ¼d. I worried it had been scuffed during the soaking off of the stamp but the original scan shows it was damaged from the start. Still, it's good enough!

Cambridge Music stamp 2 ¼d in manuscript
Cambridge Music stamp 2 ¼d in manuscript

Cambridge Music stamp 2 ¼d in manuscript on roll
Cambridge Music stamp 2 ¼d in manuscript on roll


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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by alltorque »

Great Material and Great finds....Makes my australian collection of these look pretty poor but dont seem to find these too often in my circles.
....Me think maybe because you two have all the "stock"... :D :D
Great reference material you are showing and in Adams Book as well.
Keep it going guys.
cheers

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

.
Thanks, yes I'm having a lot of fun and learning a lot too. Without Adam's superb book I'd be completely lost!

And yes I'm very lucky to have access to so many 78s and Pianola rolls here, though it's something of a double-edged sword, in that I have to keep buying up all the bargains I'm finding....

The price for job lots of the rolls is around a £1 a roll here in the UK if you search around and are patient, but I'm already up to about 250 rolls and it's adding up. :shock:

Plus there's the issue of space. Here's my latest batch of 132, freshly harvested. Now I need to get them shifted to make way for another 75 coming next week.

Cheers,
Iain

132 Pianola rolls
132 Pianola rolls

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

I only have 2 stamps from the British music publisher J. H. Larway, but checking in 'Stamps on Music' just now, I see they are both new finds.
First up is this one from Set 031, (dates: 1915-24) Value in manuscript in black. The highest current value for the set in the catalogue is 2 ⅓d so this 10 ½d one from a Pianola roll seriously raises the bar!

J. H. Larway stamp 10 ½d manuscript in black
J. H. Larway stamp 10 ½d manuscript in black


And the second is from Set 033. Value typewritten in black. The highest in this set is currently 5 ¼d so this 5 ½d raises the bar just a little bit...

J. H. Larway stamp 5 ½d typewritten in black
J. H. Larway stamp 5 ½d typewritten in black


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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

I finally found the courage to ID and organise my collection of 48 Francis, Day & Hunter stamps. With so many variations I was expecting trouble but "Stamps on Music" is so well laid out and illustrated with all colour examples, it actually turned out to be quite straightforward.
Of the 48, there are 15 different sets, and one is a new value within a set (see the final entry here).
There's a punched stamp too, (Set 30 A below,) but I'm not sure if that counts for an entry in the catalogue or not.
And I'm not sure where to fit 4 stamps, also at the end of the post here, and I'm thinking they might be a new set, but I'm sure Adam will put me right...

I'm going in...

2 of Set 010 (1912-15) A. Lilac map, signature red

Francis, Day and Hunter stamps Set 010
Francis, Day and Hunter stamps Set 010


Set 020 (1915-27). B. Large signatures, small figures:
3 of 1 ½d, orange map, green signature.

Francis, Day and Hunter stamps Set 020 B. 1 ½d
Francis, Day and Hunter stamps Set 020 B. 1 ½d


8 of 2 ¼d, pink map, dark green signature. Some poor condition, but a nice joined pair on the right.

Francis, Day and Hunter stamps Set 020 B. 2¼d
Francis, Day and Hunter stamps Set 020 B. 2¼d


1 of 3d, apple-green map with brown signature. Shame about the condition.

Francis, Day and Hunter stamp Set 020 B. 3d
Francis, Day and Hunter stamp Set 020 B. 3d


1 of 4d, green map, grey-blue (or blue?) signature.

Francis, Day and Hunter stamp Set 020 B. 4d
Francis, Day and Hunter stamp Set 020 B. 4d


2 of 5 ¼d, apple-green map, rosine signature.
Francis, Day and Hunter stamp Set 020 B. 5 ¼d
Francis, Day and Hunter stamp Set 020 B. 5 ¼d


1 of 5 ½d, dark brown map with green signature.

Francis, Day and Hunter stamp Set 020 B. 5 ½d
Francis, Day and Hunter stamp Set 020 B. 5 ½d


Set 030 (1917-29) Small signature, large figures of value.
A.
2 of ¾d vermilion map, violet signature , one punched.

Francis, Day and Hunter stamp Set 030 ¾d
Francis, Day and Hunter stamp Set 030 ¾d


3 of 1 ½d orange with green signature.

Francis, Day and Hunter stamps Set 030 A 1 ½d
Francis, Day and Hunter stamps Set 030 A 1 ½d


B. No wmk. 2d Green map, blue signature
(I just made the decision to save time by not listing all copies. They all look like this one!)

Francis, Day and Hunter stamp Set 030. 2d
Francis, Day and Hunter stamp Set 030. 2d


This next one is (I think) Set 041 (1917-26) Type 2c, green, no signature, value in manuscript ()

Francis, Day and Hunter stamp Set 041
Francis, Day and Hunter stamp Set 041


Now for Set 050 (1921-29) Type 3 . No Signature, value and text in second colour.
3 of 1d, azure, blue.

Francis, Day and Hunter stamps set 050 1d
Francis, Day and Hunter stamps set 050 1d


3 of 2 ¼d dull orange, blue.

Francis, Day and Hunter stamps set 050 2 ¼d
Francis, Day and Hunter stamps set 050 2 ¼d


Now for the new and possibly new ones.
This is from Set 021 (1915-20) Large signature, values in manuscript in black. Lilac map, yellow-brown signature.
The current highest value in the catalogue for this set in 9d so this 9 ½d one is a new value.

Francis, Day and Hunter stamp set 021 9 ½d
Francis, Day and Hunter stamp set 021 9 ½d


And now for 4 puzzling ones. At 8d value, I thought they fitted neatly into Set 020 Type 2a B. Large signature, small figures of value. pink map, brown signature. This is the only 8d listing in the catalogue so everything seemed to fit. BUT looking again now, it seems to me the signatures are the small type, and furthermore, there are 2 different font sizes for the values. So... I'm at a loss. Could these be a new set, or have I just been looking at Francis, Hunter & Day stamps for too long?

Francis, Day and Hunter stamps 8d
Francis, Day and Hunter stamps 8d


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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Big Tones »

Iain P,

Fascinating thread and an interesting read. You are almost in a field of your own.
Big Tones
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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

Thanks Big Tones! It's great that a complete newbie like me is able to make a small contribution to the field, something which I suppose is virtually unheard of in a more developed area of collecting.
I'm hooked on it now, and just about to collect another 90 pianola rolls. My wife is "delighted." (I'm using her Beauty Room as storage)
Iain

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote:
10 Jan 2021 00:37
I finally found the courage to ID and organise my collection of 48 Francis, Day & Hunter stamps. With so many variations I was expecting trouble but "Stamps on Music" is so well laid out and illustrated with all colour examples, it actually turned out to be quite straightforward.
...
And now for 4 puzzling ones. At 8d value, I thought they fitted neatly into Set 020 Type 2a B. Large signature, small figures of value. pink map, brown signature. This is the only 8d listing in the catalogue so everything seemed to fit. BUT looking again now, it seems to me the signatures are the small type, and furthermore, there are 2 different font sizes for the values. So... I'm at a loss. Could these be a new set, or have I just been looking at Francis, Hunter & Day stamps for too long?

Image

Those are new for the small sig, large value type 2b set 030. I can't know if they're subset A or B until you check them for the presence of a Harrison watermark. They'll be listed with a sub-value a. small figure of value to cover the left two.

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote:
09 Jan 2021 07:53
I only have 2 stamps from the British music publisher J. H. Larway, but checking in 'Stamps on Music' just now, I see they are both new finds.
First up is this one from Set 031, (dates: 1915-24) Value in manuscript in black. The highest current value for the set in the catalogue is 2 ⅓d so this 10 ½d one from a Pianola roll seriously raises the bar!

Image


And the second is from Set 033. Value typewritten in black. The highest in this set is currently 5 ¼d so this 5 ½d raises the bar just a little bit...

Image

Good finds these, both appear to be design type VI, which is consistent for the provisionals.
J.H. Larway type VI design details
J.H. Larway type VI design details


10½d is a high royalty so must have been a Word Roll where this was also paying the general royalty on the printed lyrics running up the roll as it was played.
Adam

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote:
11 Jan 2021 23:33
Thanks Big Tones! It's great that a complete newbie like me is able to make a small contribution to the field, something which I suppose is virtually unheard of in a more developed area of collecting.
I'm hooked on it now, and just about to collect another 90 pianola rolls. My wife is "delighted." (I'm using her Beauty Room as storage)
Iain
And then you find you need to get a gramophone to play the many 78s you've acquired, and then you need to get a pianola to play the many rolls - at least I did. My kids loved playing the rolls until they got to about 15, then lost interest. I've since sold it as they do take up quite a lot of room, but I kept a box of my favourite rolls as I suspect I'll be getting another one post-retirement.
I still have several gramophones but mostly now I play the 78s on a modern turntable with a suitable stylus.

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

adam78 wrote:
12 Jan 2021 08:15
Iain P wrote:
10 Jan 2021 00:37
I finally found the courage to ID and organise my collection of 48 Francis, Day & Hunter stamps. With so many variations I was expecting trouble but "Stamps on Music" is so well laid out and illustrated with all colour examples, it actually turned out to be quite straightforward.
...
And now for 4 puzzling ones. At 8d value, I thought they fitted neatly into Set 020 Type 2a B. Large signature, small figures of value. pink map, brown signature. This is the only 8d listing in the catalogue so everything seemed to fit. BUT looking again now, it seems to me the signatures are the small type, and furthermore, there are 2 different font sizes for the values. So... I'm at a loss. Could these be a new set, or have I just been looking at Francis, Hunter & Day stamps for too long?

Image

Those are new for the small sig, large value type 2b set 030. I can't know if they're subset A or B until you check them for the presence of a Harrison watermark. They'll be listed with a sub-value a. small figure of value to cover the left two.
Thanks Adam, I held them up to bright light while initially examining them, but saw only "mottled" light and thought there was no watermark on any, but scanning them in a film scanner now, it looks like there are watermarks there? Hope this is good enough to confirm
the IDs.

Francis, Day & Hunter stamp watermarks?
Francis, Day & Hunter stamp watermarks?


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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

adam78 wrote:
12 Jan 2021 08:31
Iain P wrote:
11 Jan 2021 23:33
Thanks Big Tones! It's great that a complete newbie like me is able to make a small contribution to the field, something which I suppose is virtually unheard of in a more developed area of collecting.
I'm hooked on it now, and just about to collect another 90 pianola rolls. My wife is "delighted." (I'm using her Beauty Room as storage)
Iain
And then you find you need to get a gramophone to play the many 78s you've acquired, and then you need to get a pianola to play the many rolls - at least I did. My kids loved playing the rolls until they got to about 15, then lost interest. I've since sold it as they do take up quite a lot of room, but I kept a box of my favourite rolls as I suspect I'll be getting another one post-retirement.
I still have several gramophones but mostly now I play the 78s on a modern turntable with a suitable stylus.
Gramophone: Done! It's "solid mahogany with elliptical flame veneer inlays to front". It was a custom build by a serious gramophone enthusiast and a fine cabinet maker in the early 1920s and sounds fantastic using Burmese Colour Needles.

1920's gramophone player
1920's gramophone player

1920's gramophone player
1920's gramophone player

1920's gramophone player
1920's gramophone player

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

adam78 wrote:
12 Jan 2021 08:24
Iain P wrote:
09 Jan 2021 07:53
I only have 2 stamps from the British music publisher J. H. Larway, but checking in 'Stamps on Music' just now, I see they are both new finds.
First up is this one from Set 031, (dates: 1915-24) Value in manuscript in black. The highest current value for the set in the catalogue is 2 ⅓d so this 10 ½d one from a Pianola roll seriously raises the bar!

Image


And the second is from Set 033. Value typewritten in black. The highest in this set is currently 5 ¼d so this 5 ½d raises the bar just a little bit...

Image

Good finds these, both appear to be design type VI, which is consistent for the provisionals.Image


10½d is a high royalty so must have been a Word Roll where this was also paying the general royalty on the printed lyrics running up the roll as it was played.
Adam
Spot on :)

10 ½d J. H. Larway stamp on roll
10 ½d J. H. Larway stamp on roll


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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote:
12 Jan 2021 08:48
adam78 wrote:
12 Jan 2021 08:15
Iain P wrote:
10 Jan 2021 00:37
I finally found the courage to ID and organise my collection of 48 Francis, Day & Hunter stamps. With so many variations I was expecting trouble but "Stamps on Music" is so well laid out and illustrated with all colour examples, it actually turned out to be quite straightforward.
...
And now for 4 puzzling ones. At 8d value, I thought they fitted neatly into Set 020 Type 2a B. Large signature, small figures of value. pink map, brown signature. This is the only 8d listing in the catalogue so everything seemed to fit. BUT looking again now, it seems to me the signatures are the small type, and furthermore, there are 2 different font sizes for the values. So... I'm at a loss. Could these be a new set, or have I just been looking at Francis, Hunter & Day stamps for too long?

Image

Those are new for the small sig, large value type 2b set 030. I can't know if they're subset A or B until you check them for the presence of a Harrison watermark. They'll be listed with a sub-value a. small figure of value to cover the left two.
Thanks Adam, I held them up to bright light while initially examining them, but saw only "mottled" light and thought there was no watermark on any, but scanning them in a film scanner now, it looks like there are watermarks there? Hope this is good enough to confirm
the IDs.

Image

Yes, Harrison & Son, London script watermark W1, so will be subset 030A.
I haven't tried looking for the usual watermark varieties stamps yet, such as inverted or reversed (or even sideways etc) but given enough examples I see no reason that they won't be lurking...

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

What a great surprise here. Looking up my 8 Herman Darewski stamps in "Stamps on Music" I discovered that 6 of them are new additions to the catalogue!
The 1 ⅛d stamp is the only one from a 78rpm record, the others are all from Pianola rolls.


Set 013. Type 1. Value typewritten in violet (c1919)
The current highest value is 5 ½d so this is a new one:

Herman Darewski stamp 6 ½d
Herman Darewski stamp 6 ½d


Set 030 Dates: 1920-25. Value in frame colour. 1 ⅛d (Already listed)

Herman Darewski stamp 1 ⅛d
Herman Darewski stamp 1 ⅛d


Set 033, Dates: 1920-22. Value typewritten in violet.
The 4 ½d green is already listed:

Herman Darewski stamp 4 ½d green
Herman Darewski stamp 4 ½d green


The 2 of 5 ¼d are new:

2 of 5 ¼d Herman Darewski stamps
2 of 5 ¼d Herman Darewski stamps


The highest current value listed is 8d, so it's great to be able to add two stamps of 9 ½d value and one at 10 ½d.

2 of 9 ½d value Herman Darewski stamps
2 of 9 ½d value Herman Darewski stamps

10 ½d Herman Darewski stamp
10 ½d Herman Darewski stamp

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

Something of a puzzle here, well a puzzle to me anyway. I bought this stamp from an Australian seller, just because the red hand cancel looking interesting. It was listed as an "Old Allan's" stamp.
It's only just now that I've come to check it in "Stamps on Music" but I can find nothing like it under the Australian Music Publisher listings for Allan & Co. All the images I can see show the Allan & Co. name around the outside circle, and none that I can see have "Australia" round the outside.
I've checked through the several pages of text for Allan & Co but I can't see any mention of this. So, it's either something unusual or I have made a newbie mistake again.
I'm not even sure what the cancel says. Ballard? Ballad? You'll see it has another stamp stuck to it. I excitedly soaked that off but it was just a normal 1d Francis Hunter Day one.

I'm hoping Adam will set me straight again....

Allan & Co. stamp unidentified
Allan & Co. stamp unidentified


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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by adam78 »

Iain P wrote:
14 Jan 2021 02:13
Something of a puzzle here, well a puzzle to me anyway. I bought this stamp from an Australian seller, just because the red hand cancel looking interesting. It was listed as an "Old Allan's" stamp.
It's only just now that I've come to check it in "Stamps on Music" but I can find nothing like it under the Australian Music Publisher listings for Allan & Co. All the images I can see show the Allan & Co. name around the outside circle, and none that I can see have "Australia" round the outside.
I've checked through the several pages of text for Allan & Co but I can't see any mention of this. So, it's either something unusual or I have made a newbie mistake again.
I'm not even sure what the cancel says. Ballard? Ballad? You'll see it has another stamp stuck to it. I excitedly soaked that off but it was just a normal 1d Francis Hunter Day one.

I'm hoping Adam will set me straight again....

Image

It's the red AUSTRALIA version in set 062, type 4, where the illustration shows the green NEW ZEALAND type.
Usually when there is a hand-written name across a stamp, it's the record owner who written their own name there, rather than one the record label itself. Unless you have the original record or roll, and can tie the name to that of the composer (occasionally the performer), assume it's an owner's name.

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

Ah. Thanks Adam I see it now.

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Re: Music related Copyright royalty tax stamps - Revenue stamps?

Post by Iain P »

Having mistakenly claimed one of my stamps as new for "Stamps on Music" I should tread carefully, but I'm going in anyway and claiming 2 of my collection of 4 Ascherberg stamps as new additions to the catalogue 8-)

I saw 2 very "exotic" looking Ascherberg, Hopwood & Crew stamps on ebay recently, listed by an Australian seller, and having never seen them before, I thought they might be special, and bought them for a few pounds.

Checking later in the catalogue I saw these are British issued stamps, and not particularly rare or unusual, but they are still lovely looking ones, so I was happy to have them, but the lesson is, I suppose, to check in the catalogue BEFORE buying.

Just a few days later, I found 2 Ascherberg stamps in my latest batch of Pianola rolls. They are in much better condition that the eBay ones - as you'd expect for stamps from rolls rather than 78s - but as well as that, they turn out to be special ones (is the claim...).

First the "normals":

Set 30, 1924-29:
¾d green.

Ascherberg stamp ¾d green
Ascherberg stamp ¾d green

1d orange.

Ascherberg stamp 1d orange
Ascherberg stamp 1d orange


Now the "specials". (The specials are displayed bigger but all are the same size: 20mm x 20mm)


The only set with typewritten value that I can see is Set 013 (1918-25) and they are all rose-carmine coloured, and the highest value is currently 3 ½d. This one is purple, and has a value of 4 ¼d. There is a set with purple in it, Set 041, but that is for manuscript values so this is a new value and new colour for Set 013, I think.

Ascherberg stamp 4 ¼d purple
Ascherberg stamp 4 ¼d purple


The 4th one is deep green, with a 2d value in the same colour. Set 030 is the set for 'value in frame colour' and there is a 2d deep green already listed there, so it clearly 'started out' as a Set 030 stamp. But it's revalued in manuscript, at 2 ¼d which takes it to Set 036 "Previous revalued in manuscript in black" (1924-25) which currently only has the (revalued ) 1 ⅛d brown in it, so this is a new value and new colour for the set.

Ascherberg stamp  ¼d revalued , deep green
Ascherberg stamp ¼d revalued , deep green


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