Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

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bardhi
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Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

Image

Image

What i have identified so far:

Ottoman "fiscal" stamps.. 2 of them have first montenegrin overprint and then another overprint "Albanien Oe. U. M. O." (Albanien - Oesterreichisch Ungarische Militär Okkupation) ..

I have not find any description of these stamps in Michel... I just found a refference in one online website (no picture) https://catalogue.klaseboer.com/vol2/html/alban2.htm (the last post) and a literature reference: Literature:
'The Alnis Guide to Albanian Revenues' by Relbnar, 1987 (34 pages)
Albania & Greece Revenues J.Barefoot Ltd 2002 (116 pages)

If anyone can help me more it would be awesome :)
Thanx
Bardh

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by HalfpennyYellow »

Since they are fiscal (revenue) stamps, they will not be listed in the Michel catalogue. The Barefoot catalogue which you mentioned in your previous post is (in my opinion) the catalogue you should go for.

It is for sale for £15 from here if you want:
http://www.jbarefoot.co.uk/philatelic-literature/albania/albania-and-greece-revenues.htm
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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

thank you for the tip HalfpennyYellow. I am wondering if any member has the catalogue and could help me online :)... if not i will get it from the link you provided :)

thank you
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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by nigelc »

According to McDonald for the basic stamps and Barefoot for the overprints these are:

Overprinted on 1912 Ottoman Proportional Fees revenues:

20 paras green & yellow - this value isn't listed in Barefoot although the 10 paras is.

Overprinted on 1913 Ottoman Fixed Fees revenues:

1 piastre purple & yellow - Barefoot #5

Overprinted on 1912 Ottoman Proportional Fees revenues:

10 paras carmine & yellow - not listed in Barefoot without the Montenegro overprint.

I suspect the Barefoot editors have only listed the values they've seen and this catalogue is a first edition so maybe they will add more if and when they update it. They note that various values were overprinted and refer to Mayr & Hanus (with no more details).

I'm surprised they're not listed in McDonald along with the many other foreign occupation revenues of former Ottoman territories.
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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by mikeg »

I have always wondered how it is the poorest country in Europe managed to have so many revenue stamps :shock:

Every occupying power seems to have issued revenues when in Albania.

Even Montenegro, which apparently was so poor that there were no horses in the country at the end of WW1, occupied Albania :shock:

It is certain that no Albanians were paying any of these taxes :lol:

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

Wow, thank you very much Nigel, it is a nice start for me to do some further research. I have some other stamps (revenues) which i got a while back ago, but could never list/find any information... I will post the pictures ASAP.

@Mikeg, since the stamps are "mint" i guess you are right on the part that no one was paying taxes :D

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

Hello friends,

If anyone got any clues regarding the revenue stamps i am going to post now, please help me because i have never seen them online or any reference to them (only a few) ... They seem to be very rare (or very lame) since i have never seen them on online bidding sites and or catalogs (i do not have a revenue catalog):

Image

and these:

Image
Image
Image

here are the photos of the first ones i posted without the nasty flash :)

Image


thank you in advance :)
bardhi

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

if you need any better photo, tell me i shall take single shots of the stamps in question or maybe even go to the university scanner and scan them (i have no scanner sadly)

thank you for your time and nerves
Bardhi

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by mikeg »

Bardhi- Sorry I cannot be of help with these :cry:

But they are a very interesting lot.

I do know the eagle overprint from the postal issues was applied to revenues also (the top two). But there are so many forgeries and favor printings of this eagle overprint, you need a specialist to identify them.

The rest I do not know anything about, although I have seen them before.

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

do you think it is worth to send them to a specialist considering that they are fiscal stamps? even if real would they actually be anything worth?

thank you
B.

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by mikeg »

I am afraid I really have no idea of the value these might have, or who to send them to for an opinion.

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

thank you anyway mike :)... the fact that you took a look at my "cry of help" is as much worthy as any help :)

I know that fiscals are difficult to identify or put a value to them, but having these stamps on my collection and not knowing anything makes me mad.

Especially the fiscals with the "Fat eagle" are a total mystery for me compared to those with the "black eagle -Shqipënia" overprint or the "Albanien-Oe.U.M.O" overprint

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by mikeg »

Even the experts on Albania do not agree on many issues :lol:

There were so many different occupations and rebel groups that no one knows what went on at the time.

It is all part of the fun 8)

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by nigelc »

A number of Ottoman fiscal stamps with this wider eagle overprint are listed by Barefoot as being issued by the Essad Pasha regime in Durres in 1913.
Nigel

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

nigelc wrote:A number of Ottoman fiscal stamps with this wider eagle overprint are listed by Barefoot as being issued by the Essad Pasha regime in Durres in 1913.
Does Barefoot state any values or give any further description (individual stamps)? Or is it just a remark with no pictures of the overprint or the stamp itself?

Thank you very very much Nigel , i owe you one.
Bardhi

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by nigelc »

bardhi wrote:
nigelc wrote:A number of Ottoman fiscal stamps with this wider eagle overprint are listed by Barefoot as being issued by the Essad Pasha regime in Durres in 1913.
Does Barefoot state any values or give any further description (individual stamps)? Or is it just a remark with no pictures of the overprint or the stamp itself?

Thank you very very much Nigel , i owe you one.
Bardhi
You're welcome! :D

I'll try and identify the wider eagles.

As far as I can see, Barefoot lists these by the basic Ottoman revenue purpose.

The three 2 paras red stamps are clearly Ottoman Fixed Fee revenues but for some reason Barefoot lists this as an "Advertising and Newspaper" revenue, Barefoot #1.

Next is the 20 paras green & yellow Fixed Fees, Barefoot #7.

The next two stamps will be the 1 piastre violet & yellow Fixed Fees, Barefoot #8.

Next is a 10 paras carmine & yellow Proportional Fees revenue which is listed with either black or violet overprints (Barefoot #20 and #20a respectively) but this overprint looks blue to me.

I think the next one is the 1 piastre violet & blue Proportional Fees revenue, Barefoot #21.

The last one is the 10 paras Fixed Fees revenue with blue overprint, Barefoot #6b.

These are listed and numbered by Barefoot in the section "Albania 1913 Central Albania". The stamps in the picture are each priced at £10.00. Barefoot doesn't give different prices for mint and used stamps.
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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

Nigel you ROCK!..

BTY, are you using "Albania & Greece" Barefoot or a more general catalog? I am thinking of ordering that cat. since Albania is the area where i wish to specialize...

Thank you
Bardhi

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by nigelc »

bardhi wrote:BTY, are you using "Albania & Greece" Barefoot or a more general catalog?
Hi Bardhi,

Yes, I'm using Barefoot's Albania & Greece Revenues from 2002. I think it's very good value and I'd recommend it. :D
Nigel

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

Thank you Nigel,

I owe you a Beer :)... If you ever visit Graz, Austria send me a mail :).

Bardhi

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by HalfpennyYellow »

Hello bardhi,

If you want, "The Alnis Guide to Albania Revenues" is available from eBay for just £4.50 + £1.93 postage (to the EU):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300577875741

If you want to specialize in Albania I would suggest that you buy both the Barefoot catalogue and the Alnis catalogue.
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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

Halfpenny,

Just wanted to thank you for the tip... I just ordered the Alnis catalogue... Since the time we spoke here, I have been buying stock sheet and other "infrastructure" needed for me to start to get deeper and specialize in Albania.

Anyway thank you, and loads of thanks also to Niglec and Mikeg. You guys showed me the way :)

Bardhi

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by mikeg »

Bardhi- Don't forget to show us any more interesting items you find 8)

My Albania collection has been somewhat slow recently, but it is one of the most interesting. :D

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

I will need some time, till I find interesting stuff, still need to fill gaps (communist era, cheap stamps but a lot of them), and then I will start devoting myself , to the pre 1945 time.

But in a few days I will get a scanner, and I will scan these interesting revenues and post some high resolution pictures.

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

Today I got "The Alnis Guide to Albania Revenues" and surprisingly, I was able to identify all of the stamps shown in the photos in the begining of this thread . :)

As soon as I get my scanner, I will do a presentation, for the two or three enthusiasts that might want to learn more about Albanian Fiscals that I own ..

Thank you again. Stampboard rocks!

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by mikeg »

Time to bump up one of the Albania threads :D

I was happy to find a set of these 1919 Postage Due's.

Totally philatelic use of course, but with only 4000 sets printed, this is the first time I have seen these:

Image

Image

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

very nice find mikeg. I think most of the "used" stamps of this period are philatelic, so still a very nice find. I am still a long way away to start hunting for such rarities ...

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by mikeg »

Time to bump one of the Albania threads :D

I am very pleased with this cover with the second set of 1919 Durres overprints 8)

Image

Even if they are philatelic, these covers are not easy to find, since most were cut up to supply used stamps.

I doubt genuine commercial usages even exist of most of these issues.

What baffles me is that this cost me all of 20 euros, but when I see something similar in a Gartner auction, they estimate them at 100's of euros :shock:

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

Really nice find Mike. I would really like to see your collection of Albanian stamps since you seem to have the most advanced one in Stamboards (the pre-WW2 collection)... I didn't get anything new on that front, except some sheets that I shall post very very soon (as soon as my 2 year old niece leaves and I don't have to babysit her).. Got also a lot of Communist era stamps, but they don't count :D

Best Regards
The totally envious and jealous Bardhi

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

These are some of my latest acquisitions on my favorite front, the Albanian Front!

Two sheets of these stamps that had an obvious design failure, namely our eagle lost one of her heads.They are printed in very thin "cigarette" paper. These stamps didn't get to be sold in the post counters because of the design flaw.

Image
Sheet 1

Image
Sheet 2

I also got this postal stationary of Michel nr.30:

Image

And these interesting weirdos.

Image

Mi.nr.176, MUH, with a perf missing, but the interesting part is that the overprint "leaked" from the front to the back.

And these stamps that never saw the light of the day due to the outbreak of WWI. The interesting thing on these are the K.u.K postmarks on them. I guess they are just philatelic and were not used since the Austro-Hungarian Army used their own stamps.

Image
First example

Image
Second example


The End, Ende, Fin, Fund.

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by mikeg »

Bardhi- you have all the things I am missing 8)

I would love to find some of those sheets- all I have is an assortment of singles.

That is the first time I have seen any of the 'Prince' issues cancelled. Like you say, someone must have simple cancelled them with the K. u. K. cancel, but they are still unusual :D

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

Yesterday I saw a sheet identical to mine (25 cent denomination), selling for €180... 9 times higher price than the price for a single sheet I got (got both for about 40€ including postage). I can't find it today... It either expired or sold (I doubt it sold for that much, but you never know)

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by mikeg »

If it sold, it was not to me, and for sure not at that price :roll:

I think the price you paid for yours is a good deal though :D

My collection is not very large really, since it is limited just to the earlier issues.

But I will post up some scans of some of them, and maybe we can get more Stampboarders interested in them 8)

I am still missing a couple of values to complete this set, but with only 4000 sets printed in all, I am happy to have any of them :D

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

Really nice part-set... You are missing only one value and 2 variations of the eagle (one of them it seems to be really expensive and hard to find - 25 QIND on eagle type 2). I am far behind regarding the pre WW2 Albania..

I have some generic stuff, but most is still missing... Like this gem that I will probably never own....

http://www.ebay.at/itm/Albanien-1914-VALONA-Reko-Brief-n-COR ... 19e365e4fe

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by honza »

Ahoj bardhi!

That is certainly a nice-looking cover you refer to on e-bay, but I am having difficulty understanding it.

The Valona departure date is 16 October 1914, which fits in with an issue date of 15th October 1914 in Michel. Albania had changed to the Gregorian calendar in 1912.

The letter is addressed to Corfou (Kerkyra) but the backstamp is Kerkyra 14. 10. 14., two days before the Valona posting date, and in any case Greece used the Julian calendar until 1916, so there should have been 13 days difference.

The Brindisi (Italy) postmark is 26.10.14, which would be the Gregorian calendar, equal, I think, to 13.10.14 (Julian). Would WW1 conditions require a detour via Brindisi?

What am I misinterpreting?

Is there any way of reproducing the picture from e-bay here without infringing their rules and then everyone can see what we are talking about?

Cheers,

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

I could take a "print screen" and post the pictures here, but I don't know if that is ok.

Well it seems there was a transit through Brindisi, which doesn't make sense. The Italians occupied Vlora a few months later, so this transit can't be because of the Italian occupation. The war was not raging yet in Albania that much by this time....

Maybe the answer is much less complicated than we expect... Maybe there was no direct ferry line from Vlora to Korfu but there was one from Vlora to Brindisi. The route from Vlora to Saranda and then by boat to Korfu could have been blocked because of the Autonomous Republic of Northern Epirus that controlled the area south of Vlora, so this situation made the detour mandatory.

I am just speculating, maybe I am totally wrong....

Cheers,
Bardhi

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

While reading more about the situation of 1914 in Albania, I just saw and remembered that there was a short occupation of Southern Albania (Northern Epirus) by the Greek army. This occupation occurred on 14. October 1914 and lasted until Italians took over the entire south Albania.

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by mikeg »

All I can do here is refer to Phipps- my 'Bible' for Albania :D

These stamps were never actually used for postage as there was no functioning postal service at the time.

They were created & given to postal employees as their pay, and the stamps were only available from them at inflated prices .

All covers appear to be addressed to 'Zissis' in Corfu and most are routed by Brindisi, however all the registration labels are blank, and all appear to be dated Oct 16 or 17.

The assumption is that they were carried outside the post and Zissis had them cancelled by a friendly postal clerk.

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by mikeg »

Here is the cover from eBay :D

Image

Even if it is a philatelic creation, these are the only covers possible with this issue :P

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by honza »

mikeg wrote:Here is the cover from eBay :D

Image

Even if it is a philatelic creation, these are the only covers possible with this issue :P
Ahoj bardhi and Mike,

Thank you for your observations and especially for posting the picture. Is it too much trouble to ask you to post the reverse of the cover as well?

Looking at the front it could be a philatelic creation, but if you consider the postmarks of 'Kerkyra' and Brindisi on the reverse with their incompatible dates, you are supposed to believe it genuinely travelled to or through these places. Surely this changes it from a philatelic creation to a forgery?

Cheers,

Honza

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

Well,since our last topic was about local issues, let me present you my newest "jewel"

Image
SHKODER - 1919

I normally don't collect blocks of four, BUT this one was interesting... Not the finest condition, some perfs in the bottom 2 stamps are damaged/missing and down there the block started getting devided, BUT just look at it! The "G" of GROSH in the lower stamp on the right is missing and the "R" is faded!

1 Grosh is the only value that sports this overprint, and they are listed under local issues.

Bought them from one of the most respectable collectors of Albanian material in Albania (this guy has the biggest revenues collection, and trust me , having the biggest revenue collection of Albania means something). Not a bargain, but worth the money that my friends gave for it. (yeah, they lost on poker night.... )

Cheers,
Bardhi

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by EricBismarck »

That is a beauty! -

One of my biggest Albanian eras that I am lacking is all of those issues from 1919. I have the first "comet" stamp from the series, but that's about it.
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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by mikeg »

Bardhi- another one I do not have :shock:

Very nice :D

Honza- I simply regard this sort of cover as philatelic- not really any different than modern FDC's.

One could argue about it, but in the end, they are apparently the only covers available.

The dates on the cancels probably do not make sense since they are most likely backdated, and everyone was confused about the two calenders :D

Eric- keep working at it- these early issues show up in the most unexpected places, since most collectors & dealers do not know what they are 8)

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by Lundy »

I have enjoyed reading this everyone, thanks

I don't have much Albania, but a few years ago I found this sheet folded in half and stuck solid, after a lot of careful soaking I managed to get it open and even without gum I like it

Image

Lundy :D

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

Nice find Lundy and thanks for sharing this with us who collect Albanian stamps, the most marginal group in Stampboards :D... Too bad it was not a "Mbr. Shqiptare" (Kingdom of Albania) overprint, since you could have made some serious money even without the gum.

Even though I collect post 1945 Albania, the pre 1945 Albania remains my favorite time and area. I guess those two stamps that belonged to my Grandfather, have sparked a fire which is lasting well over 15 years now.

I will share some more classic stuff very soon.

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by honza »

Very nice Lundy!

When you see a whole sheet like that with the marginal lines and numbers you can tell it was printed by the same people that did the German inflation issues without needing to look it up.

Value-wise in a completely different league of course! :)

Cheers,

Honza

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by ikanek »

honza wrote:Very nice Lundy!

When you see a whole sheet like that with the marginal lines and numbers you can tell it was printed by the same people that did the German inflation issues without needing to look it up.

Value-wise in a completely different league of course! :)

Cheers,

Honza
That´s true and also don´t forget that these had a German watermark too. :D

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by honza »

Ahoj ikanek!

Did you ever find any scans of Albanian covers from the Ottoman period?

Was it your brother you said had some?

I would still love to see some if possible or did I miss them?

Cheers,

Honza

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by ikanek »

Honza, covers or postal stationery from the Ottoman Empire era are quite available.

Yes, my brother surely has at least Erguiri, but may be some others. The problem is that he has no time to scan them or even to arrange them in some reasonable way.

Just have a look at some auction, e.g. Isfila - and you will surely find some examples. I am sorry but have no any scans available to show them here.

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by bardhi »

Greetings,

I have a question regarding these stamps:

Image


They are inscribed as "Pleqsia e Shqipniës së Mesme" - meaning something like "The Council of Central Albania" . They should not be confused with Essad Pashas "Qeverria e Shqipnis Mesme" (The Government of Central Albania).. The values of the set offered are 5,10,20 Pare and 1,5 Groshë.

These stamps do not appear in Michel at all... Are they Cinderelas? Unissued stamps of Central Albania??? What's up with the perfs that are totally unusual for any Albanian stamp issues??

Thanks
Bardhi

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Re: Need help regarding "Albanian" stamps

Post by mikeg »

Hi Bardhi :D

I believe I have seen something on these, but am going to work now, so will look it up tomorrow.

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